lavendertealatte: Hello and hello

[Rosetta]

Gentle exercise such as walking at first and then see how more vigorous exercise affects you.  It might increase cortisol and thus anxiety.  I can only walk, but it does help quite a bit.

[lavendertealatte]

Thanks.  What about fish oil?  I bought some awhile back but was afraid to add it.  Would now be a good time?

[Rosetta]

Sure, unless you want to try magnesium first.  You shouldn't try both at the same time.  If you have anxiety, muscle tension or Akathisia, magnesium may help.  Fish oil helps in a more general way, I believe.  I decided to try magnesium first because I need the calming effect.

[Songbird]

Many people find magnesium calming.  It hasn't really helped me with anxiety or insomnia that I noticed, but I have found it good for palpitations.  It is also supposed to be good for restless legs.  Fish oil is good for brain fog, memory and concentration issues.  Some people find it too stimulating - I had to stop taking it for a while as it was making me feel weird and antsy, but at other times I've been fine with it .  If you're having anxiety, I'd go for the magnesium rather than the fish oil.

 

How are you feeling since your reinstatement?  Have things got any better? If you are still having severe symptoms, you might consider gradually increasing your dose by very small amounts.  The 0.6mg might not be enough to alleviate severe w/d from the jump off.

[lavendertealatte]

Better since reinstatement.  No more dizziness, but still have anxiety and with that, stomach issues.  I am seeing a therapist for that now.

I wonder has anyone here tried CBD, I heard of this as well for anxiety. 

[manymoretodays]

Hi lavendertl,

 

Well, we have a whole section on that.  It's pretty long and varies between CBD and other somewhat related stuff:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/5030-cannabis-marijuana-thc-or-cbd-to-ease-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

 

You can always just search specifically on here by putting in the topic followed by survivingantidepressants.org  in your main browser.  You may want to do that, as well as look at the link ^    There may be other areas where members experiences with CBD has been recorded.

 

Pretty variable results from my understanding.  How are you doing with the omega 3's and magnesium?  Or have you tried any of that?  Those are the only 2 supplements we can really recommend.  And most definitely only try one new thing at a time.  The magnesium seems to really help with anxiety/workedup/fearful fealings for me.

 

Songbirds idea sounds sound as well.  A teeny tiny mini updose if needed.  I haven't had time to follow your introd much, so check with Songbird if that's something you decide you'd like to try.  It may or may not help.

 

And you are just into your fourth month off of a jump from 2.5mg. to zero with the Lexapro.   Hugs.  You are making good progress.

 

Love, peace, healing/inrecovery, and growth,

mmt

Edited May 10, 2018 by manymoretodays

[lavendertealatte]

thanks, I haven't tried omega or magnesium yet.  I'm scared of adding supplements, because we don't know what the long term effects are?  I think I had a friend who had a bad experience with magnesium?  

 

Had a pretty rough day yesterday and this morning.  Then I wonder if I should get back on medication.  I wonder if I have "post traumatic church syndrome" (Reba Riley) or if it's religious OCD (Mitzi Van Cleve) or what's going on?  It doesn't seem like just plain social anxiety although there may be that too https://themighty.com/2017/03/anxiety-going-to-church/.  

[lavendertealatte]

The anxiety has been ramping up lately again.  I wonder if I should up my medication dose.   I'm going to therapy, but i really feel like this is mostly physical.  

[SkyBlue]

On 5/14/2018 at 11:24 AM, lavendertealatte said:

thanks, I haven't tried omega or magnesium yet.  I'm scared of adding supplements, because we don't know what the long term effects are?  

Had a pretty rough day yesterday and this morning.  Then I wonder if I should get back on medication.  

 

Hi Lavendertea, 

 

I can understand your hesitation to try supplements, but I would personally be more concerned about further destabilizing yourself by upping your dose. You reinstated 2/20, right?  Right now your nervous system is trying hard to restabilize itself. 

 

The concern with supplements in withdrawal isn't so much the long-term effects, but the short-term. You would know quickly if a small amount of a supplement was adversely affecting you. 

 

You can always try a tiny amount of magnesium and see how you feel. 

There's more info in this thread:

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

 

 

[lavendertealatte]

oiy, I'm scared.  i have a tendency to buy supplements and then I take it once, freak out, and the bottle remains.  I have a bottle of fish oil in my fridge and have given one away before as well, very expensive good brands too lol.  So I skimmed about magnesium.  Seems like epsom salt would be a way to try a little bit?  I already have GI issues (loose stools) ever since getting off the escitalopram, so diarrhea would be no good..... T_T 

[lavendertealatte]

I started fish oil today. I’m feeling depressed and can’t sleep and I haven’t felt like this in years. Could it be the fish oil!!!!???? Coincidence???? 

[Rosetta]

Hi Lavendertealatte,

 

Yes, having an Epsom salt bath is a more gentle way to use magnesium for me at least.  Sometimes I don't mind the diarrhea if I get the relief from anxiety.  As for the fish oil, I would not give up that quickly.  It could be unrelated anxiety.

 

Hope you feel better soon, Rosetta

[lavendertealatte]

Can't sleep again, which is again odd and hasn't happened in years I think.  

Depression has been creating a bit of a cloud these past few days ever since my huge crying spell on Monday, which is very odd, since my main complaint was anxiety before.  Wanted to run away, it was that bad, and cried for hours.  It's kind of crazy how much depression colors your view of life and can make you feel things.  Today, while I still don't feel great, I'm like, wow what was I thinking wanting to run away?  I hope it is not here to stay, because while anxiety is relatively bearable, depression hardly is.  Can tell things are getting bad because I start wanting support from friends and simultaneously pushing them away by being absolutely overwhelming and can talk about myself for way too long and problems that are too difficult for anyone to solve.  Feeling self doubt because of this too.  I don't want to become a person who is awful to be around or cause friend breakups.  

 

Still continuing counseling but also thinking of seeing a Christian therapist to get a second opinion, since many of my triggers this time around are spiritual.  Unsure whether I should not do the things that make me anxious or if I should reverse that and do exposure therapy.  Unsure whether therapy will help in general, since "going to therapy" is anxiety inducing.  Listening to another imperfect human being and getting advice without assurance that anything will get better is yikes to the anxious mind.

Going to talk to Obgyn about medications during pregnancy, because starting to feel open to this due to present state.

Plan to at least try one cardio class in the next three weeks.

 

Work has been very busy.  I don't know if this is making things worse, although generally work helps because I can't ruminate too much while I work.

[lavendertealatte]

Yeah not sure about trying fish oil again.. after that day I really don't want to repeat that.  Will magnesium help with depression?  😕 

I did some cardio last week .. once.  and I felt like that helped.  But today I am so tired after being triggered in church again.  As days go by it seems I am getting worse.  More tears today, and generally overwhelmed.  Snapping at my husband cause when I'm tired I just don't want to answer his questions or make decisions with taking care of things.

[lavendertealatte]

Trying fish oil again.  Taking supplements makes me anxious.  The feeling of not knowing what's going to happen.  I think it all happened once I started researching things on the Internet more, especially with a smartphone it's all too easy to research and research and read about the bad things that can happen.  When I was little and didn't have as much sensitivity, I could take supplements that my mom recommended without problem.  I don't think I believed that they worked, but I cooperated.  Nowadays I think I've developed a belief about myself that I'm just sensitive.  I'm the one that's going to feel it's too much, when everyone else is okay.  It's interesting that this is a symptom of SSRI use.  Weird.  I had my wisdom teeth out, and the surgeon hit a nerve somehow and I lost some feeling in my mouth.  I chalked it up to me being sensitive, of course that would happen to me.  But I have always been more sensitive, but I have not always been depressed or anxious.  

I wake up feeling shaky.  Mornings are pivotol.  If I can get out of bed and stay out of bed, half the battle of the day is won.

[lavendertealatte]

Pretty certain the fish oil is stimulating for me but going to stick it out and see if things get better.

[Rosetta]

Hi 

I hope the fish oil works out for you.  I've been meaning to try to add that.  Many people find it helpful.  It's frustrating to be so sensitive, I know.  I would like to be able to drink again.  Not for a long while!  I miss coffee and it's affect, too.  The things no one tells us!  And the things so few seem to even know.  

 

I font know know if magnesium helps with depression generally, but it helps to calm the nervous system and anxiety.  I feel "depressed" after a bout of anxiety.  So, maybe indirectly?

 

Peace, Rosetta

[ChessieCat]

Hi LTL,

 

I've merged the your new topic about neurofeedback with an existing discussion on the topic which you can find here:  neurofeedback

 

[lavendertealatte]

Thanks Chessie.

 

Anyone know much about orthomolecular medicine?  My friend recommended Joan Mathews Larsen's book to me.  I feel exhausted by this dichotomy between mainstream and alternative medicine.

[lavendertealatte]

I've been having emotional breakdowns about once a week, and free floating anxiety.  I sort of feel I am getting worse.  I also started adding cardio a few weeks ago.  I've been keeping up with the fish oil but haven't seen anything positive yet.

Epsom salts arrived today, will try a bath later.

 

I wonder if I need to be using the syringe with medication.  I am taking liquid and using a 1/8 tsp measurement as it's the smallest I have.  But it's not exact...

[Songbird]

You can be much more precise with your dose using a 1ml oral syringe.

[Rosetta]

Sorry to hear about your anxiety.  I hope it calms soon. -R

[lavendertealatte]

I did buy some syringes.  No idea where they are.  Must dig around and see.  I'm really tempted to just quit the medication completely at this point.  I'm so tired of not knowing what's what.  I just want to deal with the withdrawal effects head on in a sense and get all of it out of my system.  Feeling unsure that I really need a 10% decrease, if I'm already down to .6mg, is it really necessary?  Therapist feels I'm improving.  I don't.  Maybe I'm not honest enough with the scale.  

 

I see eye floaters sometimes.  Wonder how common this is.  But mostly the neuroemotions are the worst.  I know I am overreacting to things 😕 and so easily stressed and agitated.  It is hard to reach out, when no one understands.  I hate explaining to doctors why I'm still taking .6mg of medication cause it sounds ridiculous to them, and of course there's tons of bad information on the internet.  

 

Going to stop with the fish oil.  I feel like I'm not reacting well to it.  That's just my feeling, even though it hasn't been even a month yet.  Am enjoying the cardio, I feel like it is making me stronger, at least physically.  

[Songbird]

40 minutes ago, lavendertealatte said:

 I'm really tempted to just quit the medication completely at this point.  I'm so tired of not knowing what's what.  I just want to deal with the withdrawal effects head on in a sense and get all of it out of my system.  Feeling unsure that I really need a 10% decrease, if I'm already down to .6mg, is it really necessary?  T

 

A lot of people feel this way, but it really isn't about getting it all out of the system.  See these topics:

why taper by 10% of my dosage

how psychiatric drugs remodel your brain

 

I think it's a good idea to stop the fish oil if you feel you are not reacting well to it.  I had to stop taking fish oil for a while as it was making me feel weird. 

I think it's worth persevering with the syringe to get a consistent daily dose.   See: using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques

 

It's possible you might get more relief from symptoms with a slightly higher dose, but I would suggest getting the dosing accurate first.

about reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

[lavendertealatte]

I wonder how much higher I could go?  I feel like I'm in this weird in-between and I don't like it lol.

[lavendertealatte]

So I stopped with the fish oil but I had a hard time waking up this morning and a headache and then I was like omg (who knows, maybe this is anxiety talking), what if the fish oil was helpful???  I felt like I had more energy on it and it was easier waking up in the mornings, but I also felt like it made my mental wheels spin more which I don't need.  It's so hard to tell what's what   Or maybe I'm reacting to the magnesium badly?  Or the pizza I ate?

 

[Carmie]

13 hours ago, lavendertealatte said:

So I stopped with the fish oil but I had a hard time waking up this morning and a headache and then I was like omg (who knows, maybe this is anxiety talking), what if the fish oil was helpful???  I felt like I had more energy on it and it was easier waking up in the mornings, but I also felt like it made my mental wheels spin more which I don't need.  It's so hard to tell what's what   Or maybe I'm reacting to the magnesium badly?  Or the pizza I ate?

 

 

Hi lavendertealatte, 

 

It’s confusing isn’t it, trying to figure out what one has done to make symptoms worse? Hope you figure it out. It’s all trial and error and everyone on here reacts differently to things. Some people have great success with certain things and others find the exact opposite. Hope you figure out what works for you.

 

Sending hugs 🤗

[Songbird]

On 6/15/2018 at 4:23 AM, lavendertealatte said:

I wonder how much higher I could go?  I feel like I'm in this weird in-between and I don't like it lol.

 

If you decide to change your dose at all (whether up or down), I suggest changing it by a very small amount, which is easier for your body to adapt to and less likely to cause adverse reaction.

 

14 hours ago, lavendertealatte said:

So I stopped with the fish oil but I had a hard time waking up this morning and a headache and then I was like omg (who knows, maybe this is anxiety talking), what if the fish oil was helpful???  I felt like I had more energy on it and it was easier waking up in the mornings, but I also felt like it made my mental wheels spin more which I don't need.  It's so hard to tell what's what   Or maybe I'm reacting to the magnesium badly?  Or the pizza I ate?

 

 

I don't know what dose of fish oil you were taking, but it could be worth trying a smaller dose.  I suggest changing only one thing at a time, so don't change your fish oil dose at the same time as magnesium or med doses, and then give it some time to see how the change affects you.

[lavendertealatte]

thanks all for checking in, sorry I feel like I haven't been socially appropriate enough. how are you Carmie?  Found my syringe, so going to be more exact with the .6 for now.

 

Hi Songbird, I was taking Carlson's 1tsp, which is 1,600mg .. but 800EPA/500DHA (err.. not sure why it doesn't add up lol)

 

Does anyone know what the best treatment for anxiety in the morning is?  I've been getting it right when I wake up for no reason.  I don't think CBT will help that much.

[Carmie]

5 hours ago, lavendertealatte said:

thanks all for checking in, sorry I feel like I haven't been socially appropriate enough. how are you Carmie?  Found my syringe, so going to be more exact with the .6 for now.

 

Hi Songbird, I was taking Carlson's 1tsp, which is 1,600mg .. but 800EPA/500DHA (err.. not sure why it doesn't add up lol)

 

Does anyone know what the best treatment for anxiety in the morning is?  I've been getting it right when I wake up for no reason.  I don't think CBT will help that much.

 

Hi Lavendertealatte, 

 

Glad you found your syringe. I’m stocking up on mine. I get them from the Chemist Warehouse here in Australia and they’re really cheap.

 

Everyone is different and I guess what works for one person doesn’t always work as good for another but I find FasterEFT helps with anxiety. Some people use the original EFT but I prefer the FasterEFT. I haven’t been practicing it much lately, but I want to get back into doing it regularly again in the future. It really helps me.

 

Hope you find something that helps with your morning anxiety. I always feel it’s better to just get up straight away too when it’s bad and put on something to distract you, a DVD, Netflix, music, a podcast etc. I don’t always have the strength to get up straight away because of my illness but I do turn on the light and then distract myself with crocheting and watching something, I have a tv in the bedroom. 

 

I’m not sure what you meant by not being socially appropriate enough, you’re doing fine. Keep posting. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

 

 

[Songbird]

On 6/17/2018 at 5:03 AM, lavendertealatte said:

Hi Songbird, I was taking Carlson's 1tsp, which is 1,600mg .. but 800EPA/500DHA (err.. not sure why it doesn't add up lol)

 

 

It doesn't add up because the fish oil contains some fatty acids other than EPA and DHA.  If you were taking 1 tsp (per day?), maybe try taking half a teaspoon for a while and see what it does.

[lavendertealatte]

I'm starting to read Unlearn Your Anxiety and Depression by Howard Schubiner.  I really respect his work because he is a colleague of John Sarno who coined mind-body syndrome or Psychophysiologic Disorder which helped cure me back when I had problems with "repetitive strain injury" in my wrist and hand.  It requires "emotional work" which I was resistant to doing in the past but I'm looking into it again.

[lavendertealatte]

I seem to have hit a roadblock with the book since it requires you to work through issues and I can't seem to pinpoint those.

then I'm also aware that it may be harder with withdrawal.

the spiritual anxiety has been very difficult.

[lavendertealatte]

Sometimes I wonder if it was a mistake to come off of meds.  Feeling rough, like there's so much inside swirling around.

[Rosetta]

I haven't read that book.  Maybe it's useful, but if it's making you feel worse, I would put it aside.  

 

My opinion is that while WD is intense "working on" yourself causes a lot of anxiety.  I believe it's better to distract and leave the organized work for later.  You will have plenty of existential thoughts regardless.  It's a part of your brain "re-wiring" or whatever it's doing.  There's not much sense to be made of it.  

 

Looking back, I see that the drugs changed my personality, and now it's changing back.  Who I am will probably be different than before, but trying to figure out all of who I am when my brain is changing every day is simply uneccesarily frustrating.  I think that working on self-compassion, acceptance and simple exercises to reduce anxiety ARE helpful in WD although they are difficult.  As for the depression, I just try to remember it will dissapate, and I try to get through it.  Mine goes within a couple of days.  So, that's easier for me than someone who has it for weeks.  Other than that, this horrible experience will make you more wise and enlightened all by itself.  When you have a reliable brain someday then you can consider the bigger issues.

 

i hope that helps.

[lavendertealatte]

Hi Rosetta,

 

Thanks for the reply.  Yes it helps..  I have doubts though about whether "later" will come.. and what I should do in the meantime when stuff like prayer group makes me anxious and uncomfortable.  Hubby says it's ok if I rest and leave early but I'm afraid that my anxiety means I'm an imposter. 

 

How are you doing?  It looks like you tapered off in 2017.  Sometimes I feel like it has been so long already (only about .. 6 months though for me on this dose) and I had a weird feeling of cold chills again a few days ago even though I have not changed my dosage at all.  That really discouraged me.   So you don't feel like I need to do any emotional work during this time?   I guess I'm afraid of feeling like this "forever" like there's something I need to get to the bottom of, like ... it's not JUST withdrawal..  it's a "big issue" ...  like something in my lifestyle is causing this anxiety.. like maybe my inner child is mad at me for being so dutiful and maybe I don't actually value spiritual things the way I thought I did.. 

 

so now I'm like..  ok I'm coming off medication and now I'm not feeling good..  what's making me not feel good?  I feel like I have to face issues..  lest I feel this way continually  I've been having a lot of anxiety surrounding church.   That is my main trigger ..   I thought perhaps I should do an experiment and quit for awhile and see.  Is church the  problem?  Am i just back to my baseline and this is my real person without meds?  Or did meds treat the problem which was inside me?  So many questions.

 

I'm in an ACT group as well as therapy.   My therapist thinks I should go back on medication since my symptoms were managed by it.  

 

I like what you said about acceptance and self-compassion..