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Cipramillion

Cipramillion: Cipralex

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Cipramillion

Thank you for reaching out!


 


Im home with my partner. She took a day off work after what happened this night. 


 


I will try to continue the med, see if it settles down. Im much more anxious and activated now than just a couple of days ago. The akathisa comes and goes, now im feeling an internal uneasiness, but no tremors, just som small vibrations in my body. But the symptoms earlier tonight was horrible. Is it common to experience things like that more in the evening/night. And the heartbeats?


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Cipramillion

Been seeing a new psychiatrist today. He validated the plan to keep the reinstatement and aim for a steady state. He will also refere me to a neurologist. Two specialists i've talked to think that my nervous system got damaged/sentisized after i took a vaccine and got Epstein barr. That could explain why im so sensitive to the medication and some of my symptoms. Took my regular dose today. Still feeling very scared after what happened this night and my anxiety/uneasiness is high...

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Cipramillion

Its been a week since i reinstated 1mg Cipralex and im not feeling well. Last couple of days have been hard, with increased anxiety/uneasiness, tremor and a burning sensation in my whole body. Sometimes these sensations feels intolerable. Feeling very warm. Im also feeling kinda weird and not myself, hard to explain. Suicidal thoughts have increased, feel trapped and stuck in this hell that consists of withdrawal and side effects.  

 

The second night after i reinstated i was rushed to the ER after an attack with extreme heartrate and involuntary body shakes and movements in hands and feet. ECG was normal, sent me back home. The symptoms are still there, but in a milder form. I also had the shakes/tremor before i reinstated, but not in the form of nightly attacks. 

 

Me and SSRI are not a good mix. Im very sensitive, and got WD symptoms just after 3 weeks on 5 mg. I really dont know what to do next. Should i tapper down the dose. Reduce to 0.5mg?  

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Fresh

I'm so sorry , that's not good to hear.   You've given the 1mg a good shot , but it isn't helping

Too activating maybe.

After one week I don't think you need to taper if you want to stop it.

Is it possible to have a teensy dose , like 0.25mg?    

I wish there was a correct answer here , but you'll need to make decisions based on how your

symptoms have changed..

 

Hopefully one of the mods. will be along to advise.

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dalsaan

With that kind of reaction I would stop taking it. I think you are right in saying that these aren't a good thing for you. You will need to investigate non drug ways of dealing with your symptoms. It's not easy but there is lots of advice here and I really think your nervous system has spoken

 

Dalsaan

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JanCarol

Hey Cipramillion - 

 

I'm sorry to hear you've had so much trouble - first the vaccine (was this a flu jab? or Hepatitis?) then the Cipralex.

 

Much of what you describe fits right in with the withdrawal syndrome.  It was encouraging that your symptoms improved when you started back up 1 mg.  This points to classic "withdrawal symptoms."    But the symptoms frightened you, and you went to hospital - twice? (if I understand correctly).  If the hospital checked you out okay, I suspect it was "only withdrawal."  (as if anything that awful is "only" anything!) Yes, I think this is a bad drug for you - but I also believe that sitting with the symptoms, for awhile, even when they are scary, might help. I know it's hard to believe, but what you describe - the shaking, the heart rate - all are "normal" in withdrawal.  I'm so sorry that it is so extremely scary for you.

 

I am like you - I have "CFS/ME" or "adrenal fatigue" from iatrogenic damage from drugs and surgeries.  I have the racing/pumping heart thing, I think it will pound out of my chest.  My husband got this too - and he kept wanting me to "fix it."  Finally, I bundled him up to hospital, and they just told him, "You're fine, don't come back unless it's serious."  Since they told him that, he has not had these strange episodes - though I still have them regularly.  Some nights I lay in bed, waiting for the pounding to stop so I can settle into sleep - but there is nothing wrong with me.  I tell you this because of the Epstein-Barr/CFS/ME thing - seems to relate to these strange, scary, unexplainable symptoms.  

 

(I think his episodes were about healing from a major surgery - and I believe I am healing from my damage, too - but it takes time.  So much time.)

 

So for me I got a heart rate monitor.  I learned that my heart rate became "uncomfortable" at 100.  That's not overly high - the hospital would send me home for that.  There is nothing I can do to make that heart rate go down (and I have been practicing yoga for 40 years now!), but there are some things that help.  So I check my pulse (or heart rate monitor) and if it's not higher than good cardio exercise, I just sit with my heart rate, even when it is uncomfortable. 

 

The first thing to help is to say:  This is withdrawal, this is a symptom.  And breathe.  And breathe AGAIN.  and again.  and keep breathing.  Only withdrawal.

The next thing to help is an epsom salts bath.  Sometimes the pounding heart comes back as soon as I get out of the tub - but I get some relief while I am in the bath, soaking in epsom salts.  That tells me that the heart rate thing will get better, if only I wait.  (for me, sometimes this is 2-4 hours, even if it feels longer)

 

 And when you took the cipralex, it threw your system into dysautonomia.  This is autonomic dysregulation, or imbalance between your parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems.  This affects saliva, heartbeat, body temperature, breathing, secretion, peristalsis, bladder, and any number of things that normally are automatically handled by your brain and nervous system.

 

Read more about dysautonomia here:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/183-dysautonomia-autonomic-dysregulation/

 

Yes, I think you are sensitive to the drug, but I suspect that gene testing will, like Fresh said, tell you just that, and cost you money.  Why not just treat yourself as though you are hypersensitive to all drugs right now?

 

If you drop off from 1 mg, as Dalsaan suggests, you may have the intense withdrawals return.  As another alternative, consider .75 or .5 for a week or two.  If you have great improvement from this small drop, then you will know that your problem is side effects, and can continue tapering off the drug safely over another couple of months.  If however, the withdrawal symptoms get worse, you will know that withdrawal symptoms are more of a demon than a tiny amount of the drug.

 

When you make any changes (and you've been doing this, so this is just a reminder) please hold for at least a week to give your body a chance to adjust to the new dose.  The changes are often the worst part of these drugs.

 

Hopefully, because you were on it such a short time, you can get through this in a matter of a few months.  I know that sounds long - especially considering how young you are and your short course on the drugs.  But that's the way they work.  They restructure your brain.  Here is how our Rhi describes it:

Rhi's description of healing the brain

 

Please let us know what you have decided and how you are going.   I hope to hear you are feeling better.

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Cipramillion

Thank you all for the great support and words of wisdom!

 

I descided to reduce the dose to 0.50mg yesterday. Just took my second dose now. I think some of the intensity of the physical symptoms were reduced, but im still tense and a bit shaky/vibrating. Maybe a bit more headache. The burning and hot flashes are also reduced. One really good thing about the med, is that it takes away my insomnia and crying spells (almost all of it). As soon as i quit the Cipralex, i know i will be going straight to WD hell. I dont think i can survive that. Even now im barely hanging on. The mornings are terrible. Takes 2 hours to get out of bed. I feel so strange, like im not recognizing myself or who i am. feeling gloomy, like im in the twilight zone. Got lots of suicidal thoughts. Barely functioning during the day. Want to be there for my two lovely girls (2 and 4 years old), but im too exhausted to give them all the time they deserve. Their mother is doing a great job, handling a full time job and taking care of our familiy. But i can see she is getting tired too. It just hurt so much not to be able to do the things i used to like before. Like everything was just ripped out of my hands over night. Before i took the vaccine i was 100% functioning and very happy.  Feels like my whole life has been ruined over the last 4 months. How did it come to this? My mind and emotions are like a roller coaster, really scary. Its like going through 4-5 diffrerent personality modes every day. The mornings are worst, then i can feel a bit more calm during the day, and get hit hard with anxiety and depression in the evening. Waking up with fear and uneasiness during the night. Its not possible to see what comes around the next corner.   

 

I can see why you mention dysautonomia, JanCarol, i got a lot of the symptoms. Im not so much worried about my heart as i am about the tremor, shakes and vibrations in my body. I was only once at the hospital. The symptoms have not been that extreme after this episode. Im afraid of extrapyramidal side effects or from withdrawal/medication. Is dysautonomia a permanent condition? Im so worried about my healing procfess, bacause i got so many symptoms after the vaccine and the Epstein Barr infection, and then the cipralex screwed me over big time. I dont feel my brain even has an idea of whats normal anymore, that im damaged for life now. I dont have the ME/CFS diagnosis, but its probably a matter of time, the criteria for ME is at least 6 months. I also read something about people being sensitive to the meds and get long lasting adverse effects, over many months/years. Im freaking out, because i seem to be one of those highly sensitive people who get adverse effects early on in treatment. Sigh. I see how negative i am right now, but everything just feels so hopeless.

 

Anyway. I will try to stay on 0.5mg and see where it takes me. I was thinking about maybe adding 0.25 mg in the evening if 0.5 seems too small. Is it a good idea to split doses like that? I was thinking that it might help me with the withdrawal i get at evening/night/morning.  

 

Sorry for all the questions and frustration. Im very glad i found this site. At least it feels good to know that others can understand what im going through. I know you guys have been suffering much more and longer than me. I want to contribute more for others, but right now i must use all my energy to try to feel a little bit better first. 

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Cipramillion

And one last question......

 

I was stupid not to just go down to 0.75 first. Since i cut to 0.50 i felt more withdrawal. If i want to, is it ok to jump up to 0.75 tomorrow? I reinstated only 1 week ago. Too riski to increase?

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JanCarol

I think that is wise.  Even though you were only on the drug a short time, this sounds like withdrawal.  You probably need to make a liquid and taper by 10%.

 

As your symptoms have not stabilized, you can updose to .75 and plan on holding it for a long time - 4-6 weeks.  It may be a rough ride (I hope not, but - these drugs are already knocking you around a lot), and you will need to find ways to cope while the withdrawals rattle through your cage.

 

When the waves settle down, consider tapering at 10% of the .75.  I'm just writing a quick note now, I'll come back later and see if there are any links to help you.

 

No question is stupid.  There just aren't very many people in the world who have experience getting off of these drugs.  SA is one place where it happens.  Sadly, there are too few.  Please take care and be patient and gentle with yourself.  I'll be back in a few hours.

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Cipramillion

Thank you so much, JanCarol!

 

Im still at 0.50. Feeling a little bit better, but huge mood swings during the day. Noticed an increase in fatigue after the attack and trip to the hospital. Have to plan all activities very carefully. If i do too much, i get tremor/shakes in my body. Yesterday i was just lying on the couch all day to rest. I think it helped. Got intense sensations of chemical terror/restlessness in my whole body in the evening/night. Line RLS, but in the whole of my body. Hard to describe. Feels really nasty. Not so much a problem during the day, but it can come and go without any warning. I dont feel any compulsions to move or psychomotor agitation.

 

Also i can feel sort of "strange", like im on some sort of mild acid trip or something. Very difficult to explain. Weird feeling. Im fully aware of my experience, no psychotic symptoms. I also had this strange experinces when i used the medicarion earlier on 2.5 mg. Im not sure if this is a side effect or withdrawal. I just cant explain the feeling, so strange. Happens often when i watch tv in the evening. Dont think it happened when i was off the medication for 3 weeks. I will try to stay on 0.50 mg, but will updose if the symptoms feels intolerable. Noticed more depression when i cut from 1mg to 0.50 after just 1 week. Im extremely hypersensitive!

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JanCarol

Okay, here are some links to help you:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

How to Make a Liquid from Tablets or Capsule

 

The slowness of slow tapers 

 

Tips for tapering off Lexapro

 

and

 

Rhi's description of healing the brain

 

Rhis's Start Small Listen to Body Taper Plan

 

I didn't see these links on your thread previously, I think you will need them for the next step.  You will have some waiting time, while you wait to stabilize, that should give you some things to explore while you are getting ready for your taper.

 

I hope you feel better soon.

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Cipramillion

Thx again!

 

I already use liquid cipralex. 20mg equals 1 ml. Pretty stupid for such a strong drug! I dilute in water first.

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Cipramillion

Hi. 

 

Been a really long while since i last posted something here. Here is my update: 

 

I`ve been tapering for a long time after a catastrophic reaction to 5 mg Lexapro, and had to tapper fast (50%) after just 3 weeks on the drug. Withdrawal hit me like a train at high speed. The symptoms can only be described as pure hell.  Im now feeling better and my dose is at 0.14mg. The waves comes and goes, but are milder and not as intense. I also think im more used to the symptoms, so i can distract myself more now. Its strange how fast we can adapt, even these terrible symptoms. Im tapering 10% every 5-8 weeks. Im slowly getting off this poison. The last 12 months have been all about survival and extreme mental work. I want to thank Fresh at these forums for giving me the advice to reinstate at a ultra low dose (0,5 mg). I think in many ways you saved my life. Thats at least how i feel about. I was so far down the drain. Had no hope and felt scared all the time. First i reinstated 1 mg, but got sent to the ER with terrible autonomic dysfunction. managed to stabilize (a relative term) at 0,5mg. Far from remission, but better, Im now working 100%, but often feel very tired from the waves. I never drink alcohol or take stimulats of any sorts. Coffee makes my Heart rate slow down to 50bpm (paradoxical effect from caffeine). Dysautonomia. 

 

Anyone else here who has experience from reducing lexapro at ultra low doses? im at 0.14 now, but im scared of jumping off the train, so will still tapper. Im more optimistic now, and i think i can beat this. Not sure i f i ever will get back to my old self, but im keeping my hopes up. The withdrawal is like s shadow hanger over my personality. For the first time i can actually get some smal glimpses of the old me (windows). My feelings are numb and twisted, but less so than before.

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scallywag

Cipramillion, catnapt is taking a very low dose, 0.20 mg Lexapro split into 2 doses. LexAnger is someone else who is at a low dose, 1.2 mg.

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Cipramillion

New update. Reduced my dose yo 0.08mg a couple of weeks ago. I see the light at the end of the tunnel. Just need to hang on and heal some more before the last drop to 0.04mg. Then 4-8 weeks of healing, and hopefully off to zero after that. Still got waves, but the symptoms are more mild than before. Fingers crossed. 

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Cipramillion

Cipramillion, catnapt is taking a very low dose, 0.20 mg Lexapro split into 2 doses. LexAnger is someone else who is at a low dose, 1.2 mg.

 

And thank you, scallywag, for sharing that information with me. 

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LexAnger

Thanks Scallywag for getting us connected.

 

Thanks cipromillion for posting to my thread!

 

Wow, be proud of yourself for winning the most incredible battle!

 

How was it like your past year journey?

 

Best,

Lex.

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Cipramillion

Hi, Lex. 

 

Thanks for posting back. We are a rare species, tapering at such low doses. 

 

I needed to take a break from these forums for a while and just focus all my energy on surviving.These symptoms sure is the definition of hell. After the reinstatement and gradual tapering, i started to feel better. All waves and windows, but less intense. My sleep has almost come back to normal (6-8 hours), but i still suffer from those cortisol spikes. I always wear a sleep mask at night.   I bought a smart watch that monitors sleep and pulse (BPM 24/7) and started exercise with pacing. At first my resting BPM was in the 90-100 range. Just a short walk was exhausting. But my resting BPM did gradually fall, and now it is 57, which is a huge improvement. The physical advantage has helped me alot in terms of dealing with fatigue. My lifestyle has changed dramatically. No alcohol, caffeine, reduced intake of sugar and carbs. I take good care of myself now.  I startet to distract myself with tv series, running (Forrest Gump style) and used techniques based on mindfulness and acceptence. Those things did help a lot. I spend more time with familiy and friends, which also is a positive factor these days. When i felt a bit better i started reading a lot of research articles and books about psychaitric drugs. I know a lot more now and want to contribute more here at these forums, now that i feel better and are able to to actually use my energy on something useful. Hopefully im off the drug in 8-10 weeks from now. My dream ist to be able to write a success story on these forums, but i know it still is a long journey to eventually a full recovery. 

 

How are you doing now, Lex?

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LexAnger

Hi cipromillion,

 

That is so good to hear, that you did all the good thing taking care of your health and healing over the trauma this drug has caused!

 

I want to say one more time and in your own thread that you made great decisions too in the early stage of your battle getting off and back on then tapering. I read way too many who were in high confusing situation not knowing which way to go then got much greater harm taking the wrong path.

 

I believe I'm in the worst stage of my long bttale. My original taper was not that bad really with just physical pain. Things got lot complicated after I incraese doses couple times in the middle and eventually got very bad after the last one day dose incraese by accident from 3.2-4.2mg) when I started having mental symptoms DR, congnitive difficulties, many other new strange and very uncomfortable physical sensation. To me, the drug reaction from dose increase is much worse and harder to deal with general speaking. this round of super fast taper brought up the worst WD for me as expected, along with the drug reaction still lingering around. Drug reaction is the harder in my opinion, not only in its symptoms, also how hard to balance. I have been cutting prose rather fast in the past year to control the drug reaction, and was hoping it would be minimal when I am at lower doses, but just found unfortunately it's always outpaces my taper and can be as strong as at high doses.

 

So I'm still in between the two evils with both tilting up even more. Only thing encouraging is the small amount of the liquid I'm currently taking. Often times I feel a huge win by just looking at the tiny dose, only that I don't know yet what it gonna to be like the rest journey.

I hope I can hold longer without the need of more fast cut.

 

You are a sure success story! Many can learn from your experience with reinstate and drug reaction, yet slow taper at a very low dose.

 

 

Best wishes for steady and full recovery

 

Lex

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Cipramillion

My window did come to an end a few days ago. Sinne i felt better i was tempted to try a small cup with espresso coffee. BAM! My BPM was reduced by 15-20, and i felt dizzy for several hours. Also some problems with breathing. Akathisia is back in town! I never learn. Sigh. Hopefully this wave will pass in a few days time. Then i will make my next move/cut.

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LexAnger

So crazy this whole thing! You were on very low doses only for a few weeks, can't believe how dangerous these drugs are!

Somehow I have a feeling your major problem is more drug reaction than WD.

 

What are the symptoms and patterns of them

after each dose reduction?

After long hold?

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LexAnger

Oh, hit the post button too fast,

 

Have you ever felt better after cutting doses?

How about daily pattern, such as right after taking the meds?

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Cipramillion

Yeah, this is unreal! Im actually a bit better today. Slept for 10 hours this night, which is a new record after WD! I can understand why some psychiatrist think some of us are bipolar. Wild mood swings!

 

I feel worse after cuts and better with holds. It is a complicated process. I had a reaction to both vaccine and virus (Epstein Barr) before i was put on lexapro. My nervous system was already in chaos then. Lexapro made it much worse, and the the WD set in after just 3 weeks on the drug. I think it is the worst from both worlds (WD and reaction). Hard to say whats what at this point, but i sure hope a cup of coffee will feel better without the Lexapro...

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LexAnger

Totally insane how damaging these poisons are. I keep telling ppl around no touch at all to these drugs unless a real life threatening situation. One dose can take your life away and throw you into a bottomless he'll never exists before the ra of these poisons.

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LexAnger

I have a thought about your last tiny dose hearing that you are still experiencing WD.

 

I'm currently at 0.12mg. I took 0.004 mg 3-4 times each day between 4-9 pm, then took the rest all together at mid night. The reason is, I would feel the need of the drug around 4pm, but can only bear with 0.004mg without reaction flare up big, and I can tell the 0.004mg still makes a huge difference ( quick lifting of WD symptoms). I had to take the rest at midnight otherwise the blurred vision and severe DR can put me in a total haze.

 

What I learned from playing with the extreme tiny doses is, even we think 0.04 ( your dose) is extremely small and can be reasonalbaly considered as a jumping point, it may help actually to extend a bit longer by taking smaller dose than 0.04mg before jumping off.

 

I do the same as you, diluting the 0.04 mg by 10 times and then it's easy to measure whatever the ML/MG needed. The good thing is the liquid Lexapro is very easy to be diluted evenly by just adding water.

 

I know you have a very high concentration liquid, but you should be able to dilute it as much as you want.

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LexAnger

Well the whole thing has no withdrawal in consideration which is the most significant part of the harm ssri can make. The effectiveness of ssri on depression was only based on DURING treatment period which we know already, and the actual brain damage is masked up the whole time when you are on the drug. What is missing still is the withdrawal and how much damage at that time can be revealed.

 

Without true realization and acknowledge of what these drugs do to human brain, those analyses are meaningless and the results are misleading.

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Cipramillion

in theory, it is possible to dilute small doses. The problem is getting the exact same amount out of the bottle each time. Just a small deviation can make a huge difference at this level. Factors like light, temperature, quality of the syringe and the fact that small amounts can be left inside of the syringe/cup. And If we are that sensitive, one can expect fluctuation in symptoms because of these factors. Time to buy a chemist lab :) Anyway. I think trying to get to these small numbers are still better than zero. 0.004 is just extreme, but nothing surprises me anymore when it to the potency of Lexapro.

 

On the other side i just cant help thinking that we somehow are under the influence of the nocebo-effect. Expectations matter when it comes to drugs. At least i think we need to consider that as a possibility also. Not the main factor, but i think it adds sonething to the mix. I know my expectations and fear will have an effect when i jump to zero. Im working with that part now, in preparation before the last jump.

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Cipramillion

I agree. But still the main conclusion is important, namely that the risks outweights the benefits. Hopefully we will see studies with better designs in the future.

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Cipramillion

New cut from 0.08 to 0.04. One more to go! :)

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LexAnger

I agree. But still the main conclusion is important, namely that the risks outweights the benefits. Hopefully we will see studies with better designs in the future.

You are right! At least that message is correct by itself, and an important message!

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LexAnger

New cut from 0.08 to 0.04. One more to go! :)

Fingers crossed for a smooth slide!

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Cipramillion

Thx, Lex!

 

How are you doing these days?

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LexAnger

I consider its the darkness before the dawn.

Reaction has been continuously too strong even after the huge drop from 0.9 to 0.2. I had to slide down all these days now at 0.1mg. It will be soon close to zero at this rate. In a total unknown. Hope is to hang on to the last 0.04 or so without the need to throw away the crutch completely.

 

Big time indeed. Holding my breath.

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