uncomfortablynumb: withdrawal symptoms or anxiety / depression

December 14, 2015

Hello. I saw where you had posted asking about tests ect in symptoms/self care. I know many do not think alternative health testing works or matters. But, I honestly feel that it does. Not the neurotransmitter testing ~ but I have personally benefitted from having my cortisol, liver function & hormonal testing done. To me, there is a reason WHY I had anxiety issues on the first place. I feel as though I'm getting answers now and can heal & support my body while I'm stabilized at a small dose of Zoloft. The key is to have a doctor who is knowledgable & willing to work with you. I told the doc my CNS was very sensitive due to WD and had to be very careful about what I took ~ he agreed with me and acknowledged what AD do to your body. Anyway, that's my two cents on the subject ~ I am in no way trying to undermine that the response was that no testing exists. Unfortunately there are many "natural" docs out there who exist to make $ off of suffering people. I've been suckered by a few of those myself. Always do your due diligence on docs, tests & supplements. Best to you!

December 15, 2015

Hi all,

This is the video: Healing from Antidepressants: Patterns of Recovery

CC

Thanks Chessie this is the best thing I have ever found to explain how wd feels.

December 18, 2015

Hi all,

This is the video: Healing from Antidepressants: Patterns of Recovery

CC

Wow, thank you. The video made me feel as though someone had read my mind before making it. It's comforting to know that others are feeling the EXACT same way. I mean, Im not glad other people feel the same way, there is just something helpful about knowing Im not alone!

December 26, 2015

I ended up having to hospitalize myself due to the insomnia destroying me. During my hospital stay I had tests done and requested a few more. Turns out my T3 is high and my testosterone is low. No wonder I am anxious, depressed and can't sleep. Or did my lack of sleep screw up those hormones? Anyway, they put me on diff ADS and antipsyc to sleep. Some helped and one caused a 24hr panic attack. I was released with no script for sleep meds but Cymbalta. I had a Xmas miracle - I slept a whole night with no meds. I woke up and didn't have headache and few zaps. Still have the depersonalization and depression though. My emotions have been creeping back over past few days - I have laughed and cried. Really happy about that. I want to remain drug-free. I am going to re-do some tests and I am also going to check out for candida, h pyloria. Might look at estradiol, cortisol, zinc, copper, iodine as well.

December 26, 2015

Hi UCN sorry you had to go to hospital for insomnia.

Insomnia sucks.

I have no doubt whatsoever despite doctors desire to blame the patient that the low testosterone is due to ssri/snri exposure.

Mine has been decimated. It has no correlation with amount of sleep.imo

I think the desire to remain drug free is a great one.

This is how you do it....when offered drugs just say NO !

It comes as no surprise that one caused a panic attack you have a highly sensitized cns caused by these drugs adding some new neurotoxic ones will upset an already distressed system. imo.

Question, with a psychotpropic drug in the body, do test results mean anything, when results may be highly compromised in such an environment.

Wishing you many more good nights sleep.

December 26, 2015

Hey Numb so glad you got some sleep! Thats huge and only means better sleeps are on the way. Nothing naturally you can take for a high T3? I feel I might have something like this aswell. I have a fast racing mind 50% of the time. But no thoughts or stimulants create this state, its just there. Do you have the same thing?

January 6, 2016

Hey Numb hope your getting some relief buddy

January 11, 2016

Hi UCN sorry you had to go to hospital for insomnia.

Insomnia sucks.

I have no doubt whatsoever despite doctors desire to blame the patient that the low testosterone is due to ssri/snri exposure.

Mine has been decimated. It has no correlation with amount of sleep.imo

I think the desire to remain drug free is a great one.

This is how you do it....when offered drugs just say NO !

It comes as no surprise that one caused a panic attack you have a highly sensitized cns caused by these drugs adding some new neurotoxic ones will upset an already distressed system. imo.

Question, with a psychotpropic drug in the body, do test results mean anything, when results may be highly compromised in such an environment.

Wishing you many more good nights sleep.

I completely agree.. tho she has not been here in awhile ask norx about thyroid and ADs she could write a book.

January 16, 2016

Hi Mort and all,

I had been suffering from the insomnia so bad. Ended up having to go to hospital again. On top of it all my depression and anxiety are pretty awful now.

I reluctantly ended up going on Cymbalta and my insomnia got quite a bit better within 10 days. This means I could have probably stick with my reinstatement of 37.5mg or 75mg of Effexor and my insomnia may have resolved.

Now I have to think about intelligently weaning off Cymbalta bead by bead. Since I have been on this for only two weeks, any idea of how to schedule the taper from 60mg? Should I start now or wait to see if my mood improves before starting?

I just want my life back. Ughh

January 16, 2016

Check the pages called tapering cymbalta I did not do it as I could not tolerate the switch over from effexor to cymbalta but there are lots of people here tapering of cymbalta your taper would be the same as theirs. Before you start to taper be sure you are stable.

peace

January 16, 2016

I would like to know after a taper schedule after a month use. What do you mean about waiting to be stable before? Stable in what way? You mean hope that the Cymbalta improves my anxiety and depression before going off?

January 16, 2016

Hi UN , could you give us a little more information?

You've been taking cymbalta for 2 weeks and "my insomnia got quite a bit better within 10 days."

What other symptoms have improved since 2 weeks ago?

Ideally , you would stay on this dose to allow your cns to adjust to being in one place before beginning to taper. You'll have a better idea in one month's time what "stabilize" means. I see from your sig. that you've had many years of chopping and changing.

If you've felt a noticeable improvement from this reinstatement (unlike other times you've tried since 2010) I'd stay with it. Get as good as you can be , then think about tapering.

Fresh

January 17, 2016

Fresh - thanks for your message. Nothing has improved other than sleep. I do still take Ativan once a week if I have a couple rough nights in a row. My anxiety and depression are still bad. I also have the dizziness, headaches, vision issues. I have little to no interest in things and my emotions are pretty flat. Still have a blank mind. All of this is causing me to avoid being social. Ughh.

You meant for my depression/anxiety to improve and stabilize before tapering off? I am not sure if Cymbalta will help in that regard since it is similar to Effexor and that stopped working. It helped with sleep, so I was thinking of weaning off of it in the next couple of weeks if it doesn't do anything else. I will go slowly, but I am not sure how slow.

January 17, 2016

UN , if your sleep has improved , I'd take that and consider it an improvement.

Ideally , your mood will improve with stability too , and your anxiety will dampen.

Stability doesn't mean going back to how you were before - that's the goal of total recovery. To me , stability is a level where symptoms are tolerable , and your functioning begins to increase.

This level is different for each of us.

This seems to be kind of your last shot at reinstating , you seem to have tried most other suggestions offered to you by Alto and your doctors. You'll always be able to find a doctor to prescribe you something if that's what you want , but there's nothing to really "fix it".

Worst case scenario , if you don't try and stick it out to the best of your ability , you'll have to go through the withdrawal and take whatever it throws at you.

No one has ever died from withdrawal , and everyone recovers to some extent eventually.

You can't die from lack of sleep - a neurologist who came to my home when I was very sick told me this.

He said eventually when your body needs to sleep , it will. So there's no real need to get anxious if you can't sleep. It comes back when you get better.

I'd give the cymbalta a chance to do it's stuff.

If you start to get NEW symptoms , please ask for suggestions here before doing anything rash.

This table might be helpful to track intensity of symptoms , so that you can compare over a period of time http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=143

Dr Joseph Glenmullens' comprehensive checklist of withdrawal symptoms

.

January 17, 2016

My brain is muddled I wish I could tell you about my effexor to cymbalta try but I can't recall the details this is all I know now... it did not work for me I tried to go back on E that felt like I had been poisoned it would not stay in my body came right back up. We are all different and my path is not going to be the same as other people. I did not know what was wrong with me since the problems all seemed to be based on that head dropping and the foot dragging... I tried other drugs the neurologist wanted me to take a series of drugs actually for a few months none of them helped me. I travelled to other cities to be at the best hosp that did no good either. I finally just gave up sure I was going to die of something they just could not find yet. I was 8 months into cold turkey when I found paxilprogress and started to learn about antidepressants... that was in 2008.

It was a long road but I did not die just felt like I would. I was actually happy to find pp and after reading there was hopeful it would all be over soon as others there were healing most there had or were in the process of tapering. I did not do that and it was suggested to me there that reinstatement would likely not work at that stage - not that I seriously wanted to take drugs again and start at the start after 8 months of ct wd... supposedly tapering makes wd easier but I have not done it so can't talk much about it from a personal perspective I just know other people seem to keep jobs and their lives going I was at a dead stop for years suffering.

In hind site had I found a drug I could tolerate I would never have gone ct... the first ct was at the suggestion of a doc to switch out cymbalta for E... this is how I got here.

My advice to you is to read about cymbalta and tapering that other people have done and about reinstatement ... here on SA see how long it takes others to get stable.

I wish you peace

January 17, 2016

Hey Numb good to hear from you. Terribly sorry you had to go back to the hospital but I think its great news your insomnia had improved since starting Cymbalta. I also think maybe you should stay on it awhile because if your insomnia has let up than maybe your other symptoms will also start to let up.

I know with myself I wasn't able to reinstate because I was off meds too long and the risk of it possibly getting any worse scared me. I hope whatever you decide works out

January 17, 2016

Thanks Mort,

How have you been lately? Are you strong enough to do anything physical? With my sleep coming back I am thinking about doing light weight training and a little cardio. I have been such a couch potato. I will give the Cymbalta another couple of weeks. If it doesn't fix anything more than my sleep, I think I will taper off by 25 percent a week (since it would only be a month on). I have felt like crap for 7 months now. Something has to give.

January 17, 2016

Hey Ive been in and out, ive had some pretty decent windows. My old windows were just feeling okay but now it seems like its creeping towards better than Okay. Not good windows yet but hopefully soon.I would really love, just not to have really bad waves anymore, because they scare the daylights out of me! I am hopefully coming out of a bad wave right now that started Wednesday . My windows are when I am fully able to enjoy the moment. Go to the movies and laugh , eat whatever and have a good time . Physically for some reason Im still pretty bad. Im not able to do any training. It still feels Like I have mono. It seems like my windows are mainly mental. No anxiety in my windows and easy to be social but not much physical strength .I am really hoping by the summer that I could get into some yoga/light weights or something a little more than a gentle walk. I might need to improve another 15% before this happens. Im keeping my fingers crossed

I think if you could do some light training and feel good than thats a huge bonus. I know for me that would be a moral booster. Anything thats positive can boost moral. I think things could really start improving once you start getting sleep.

January 17, 2016

I have felt like crap for 7 months now. Something has to give.

This must feel like an insanely long time to be suffering. I was looking at your signature, and what I'm seeing is a lot of fast tapers, cold-turkies, up-dosing. switching drugs and reinstating. I think your central nervous system is really suffering now from all of that. And it's completely understandable - we all try to do things to fix the pain we are in.

I believe that tapering the cymbalta in 2 weeks would just be another change for your CNS to have to cope with.

Improvement of sleep is a very good sign. Holding for 2-3 months, as Fresh said, would give you a chance for really good stabilisation. This would be something you haven't tried in a long while, and it may well give you the relief you need.

It is so hard to hold - I know, I struggle with it myself - because we want to do something to fix things. But in w/d, things work differently. Sometimes we just have to wait and give our brain a chance to do what it needs to.

Perhaps have a second look at some of these links - that's what I do when I need to get some perspective again.

Brain Remodeling

Healing From Antidepressants

Neuro-Plasticity

Windows & Waves

I'd love to see things start to come right for you,

Karen

January 18, 2016

Hi UN! I was reading your thread and feel really bad for you. I can totally relate about the insomnia. I was on Cymbalta for 10 years and I tapered off it over 9 months (Way too fast) I have been in withdrawal almost 9 months. I too lost my sleep completely. It was something I totally didn't expect to happen. I ended up on remeron 15 mg as well and also seroquel 25 mgs. I got relief and was able to sleep well for a few months. I decided to get off the drugs and go the natural route. I started taking a sleep aid that contains valerian,hops,melatonin, scullcap,chamomille I slowly started getting my sleep back! I still wake sometimes between 2-4 but I can fall back asleep. I hope you are able to eventually ween off Cymbalta. It is a tough drug to withdraw from.

January 18, 2016

Uncomfortablynumb, how did you feel at 30mg Cymbalta? When did your sleep improve?

60mg is a high dose, how many days have you been taking 60mg? It may be unnecessary to take that much if you get the same benefit at 30mg.

Improving sleep is a very big improvement. Sleep is healing. Please don't expect your nervous system to recover right away. With the help of sleep, you can gradually stabilize over time, your other symptoms will decrease, and then you can taper off.

January 19, 2016

Hi Alto,

Been on 60mg for 9 days now and 11 days on 30mg. Not much change between the 30mg and 60mg. My mood, thinking, and energy are the same. Sleep improved after 9 days on 30mg. When I say improved it is still far from normal. I don't even know if it is worth staying on if this is the only slight improvement. Should I drop to 30mg? Ughh, this is a nightmare. And I am hearing Cymbalta is another tough one to get off.

February 6, 2016

Uncomfortablynumb, how are you doing now?

February 7, 2016

Hi Alto,

Not doing well at all. The insomnia is by far my worst symptom. Any sign that my body can sleep on its own would be a relief. I am going many days with zero sleep or an hour tops. The Ativan concussion once a week is my only relief.

I have tried a lot of different supplements that aren't helping. The only thing I haven't tried is exercise or long walks. This is because I have nothing left in me and I have a yeast infection on my inner thighs that just isn't going away. This is yet another problem I have never had before withdrawal. My body would recover from things.

I am fearful that my drug history has left me irreparable.

February 7, 2016

Numb, I don't have any specific answers for you -- but wanted to say to hang in there. I don't think you are irreparable.

February 7, 2016

Hang in there Numb. You are definitely not irreparable. Lots of older people who took multiple meds for 20+yrs are recovered. You are a strong young guy. I must imagine when your sleep comes back that your healing will accelerate. Hows your appetite? Are you getting some calories? This year something good will happen to you

February 7, 2016

Hi Mort,

Thanks for hanging in there with me. How is your progress? Are you able to work on getting physically stronger?

My appetite has not been great but I make sure I eat a lot of protein and veggies. I take the magnesium and fish oil religiously too.

The depression and anxiety are something that I can deal with and work on. I don't have much control over my sleep.

I wish there was a support group in Toronto or a doctor who specialized in AD withdrawals.

February 7, 2016

Np. My weakness is alot like your sleep. Its tough and lets up at times lately but it took awhile to do that and its still strong. My symptoms are changing all the time. I get full days of piece of mind . But I still gets bouts of symptoms. Akathsia and anxiety come and go along with my stomach pain and dizziness but the fatigue is the strongest and most constant. I think the weakness will probably be the last thing to break for me. When im not really weak I go for walks not long ones. Or I play some road hockey by myself in my driveway. Thats about it. Its a long road but I think Im close to it fully letting up. My parents and GF see my improvements even though most of the time I don't.

Thats good that your eating. Eat when you can and sleep when you can. When that sleep let's up your gonna improve fast.

I know what you mean about doctors and support groups. I have a psychologist who fully understands WD but id say his main strength is to validate your condition rather than talk about your problems although you might have success . I only say that because im not sure he understands the recovery process as much as he understands the actual WD syndrome. He doesn't have the access to the recovery stories around here. But if your interested I'll send you his link. At the very least he could educate your family and other Doctors about what your going through .

http://www.drscottbishop.ca

February 7, 2016

uncomfortablynumb, are you eating a lot of canned or cured meats or fish?

February 7, 2016

Hi Alto,

The odd occasion I will have a can of chili when I am completely exhausted to make anything. I will eat fish usually once a week - typically haddock or cod. I rarely eat cured meats. Chicken and eggs are a staple for me. I also have a whey shake a day sometimes with avocado, greens and berries. I cut out coffee and chocolate and miss them dearly. And no junk food. Do you have any diet tips?

February 7, 2016

No, your diet sounds good. Cured and canned meats or fish can contain something that might be activating, but that doesn't seem to be your problem.

Are you keeping regular hours? Get at least a half-hour of gentle exercise and a little natural light every day? Shut off lights in the evening?

Have you tried a bit of melatonin in the evening?

February 8, 2016

Hi Alto,

My waking hours could be more regular. I probably need to get out and get more sun. I try to avoid screens at night but I am sometimes guilty of watching TV. I ordered blue light blocking glasses from Amazon. Maybe they will help. I haven't done any light exercise due to exhaustion and my yeast infection that is really sore. I guess I could just do some upper body stuff. It just isn't healing even with antibiotic cream. Wonder if this lack of sleep has completely shot my immune system. I am very athletic and have never had this problem until I was hit with insomnia. If I didn't have my Ativan once a week I wonder how I would survive. Would I just collapse from sheer exhaustion eventually?

February 8, 2016

Try to get a little more exercise. Maybe the stationary bike?

Antibiotic cream won't work, yeast needs an anti-fungal. I found boric acid capsules work very well. You can make your own with boric acid powder and gelatin capsules as vaginal suppositories. I found I could use it only a few days at a time or it can cause irritation. http://www.uwmedicine.org/health-library/Pages/boric-acid-for-recurrent-vaginal-yeast-Infections.aspx

I found that going gluten-free cleared up recurrent, mild yeast infections. Wheat adds sugar to your system, yeast loves this. Believe it or not, reducing wheat might help you get past this.

February 8, 2016

Thanks again Alto,

Geez, you are an encyclopedia of medical knowledge. Maybe it is an anti-fungal actually. Brain is slow. Tried clotrimazole and now lamisil. I will look into the boric acid powder. I am male, and it is my inner thighs that are almost raw but not quite. I don't eat much bread but I will eliminate it and go low sugar for a week and see.

Past my bedtime now. So much for keeping a schedule.

February 8, 2016

Oats are very calming to eat. Soak raw oats overnight first, in water or milk, and then eat in the morning with nuts/seeds/dried fruit mixed in. My body craves oats since I've been in w/d, and they feel incredibly soothing to my whole system. This was an effect I noticed first, and the started to look into because it was so strong.

Also to help with reducing gluten, you can make sourdough bread. The soaking process makes the wheat much more digestible. Of course, for now you might wish to avoid wheat completely.

Natural yoghurt with probiotics in it is good to eat regularly. Coconut oil, sprouts, chia seeds. So many foods which can help your health along.

February 8, 2016

Oats are very calming to eat. Soak raw oats overnight first, in water or milk, and then eat in the morning with nuts/seeds/dried fruit mixed in. My body craves oats since I've been in w/d, and they feel incredibly soothing to my whole system. This was an effect I noticed first, and the started to look into because it was so strong.

Karen, you don't cook them first? I'm intrigued. Do you think it's a natural boost to serotonin? I'm always reluctant to connect upping serotonin with improved mood due to the whole imbalance theory being unsupported, but it stands to reason when we are in withdrawal it is because without the drug blocking, we now have our serotonin sucked out of the nerve gap too much, low levels in the gap. I will check this out method out. I'm sure you're talking oatmeal oats as opposed to steel cut oats They'd still be too hard!

SG

uncomfortablynumb: withdrawal symptoms or anxiety / depression

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