Wikipedia page on withdrawal syndrome

[Phil]

I see there is a wikipedia page on withdrawal syndrome, however it does not mention SSRIs, just benzos, alcohol and opiates.

Does anyone here think SSRIs should be included? Many of the symptoms sound very similar to SSRI withdrawal to me.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protracted_withdrawal_syndrome

[Altostrata]

There's a Wikipedia page on SSRI withdrawal syndrome here https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/SSRI_discontinuation_syndrome

[Punarbhava]

I saw both of these, some time ago and thought "wow" so many people will have easy access to this information, within minutes of conducting a search.

 

I feel this is so important since, most people aren't into spending hours upon hours of time researching on-line. Rather, they wish to have quick, accurate information.

 

Wiki has covered both subjects pretty well don't you think? It's adequate for the average person and gives a reasonable overview.

 

 

Punar

[Phil]

I agree Punar, something like this is good info for the average person, I just sent the SSRI link to a friend actually to better understand my problems. These days if there's a wiki page, then people are more likely to believe something, haha.

 

For some reason, this part disturbed me:

 

One theory states that SSRI discontinuation syndrome is associated with a rostral anterior cingulate Cho/Cre metabolite ratio decrease that may reflect dynamics of rostral anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) function. The ACC appears to play a role in a wide variety of autonomic functions, such as regulating heart rate and blood pressure, and is vital to cognitive functions, such as reward anticipation, decision-making, empathy, and emotion. Neuroscientists indicate the dorsal anterior cingulate cortex is primarily related to rational cognition while the ventral is more related to emotional cognition.[18]

It would explain a lot of the withdrawal symptoms, at least the mental side of them, but it seems very disturbing to me.

[Claudius]

There's a Wikipedia page on SSRI withdrawal syndrome here https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/SSRI_discontinuation_syndrome

 

The site states:

Although most SSRIs are widely used and generally considered safe, an abrupt cessation, or rapid tapering of SSRI use may result in a discontinuation syndrome that can mimic serious illness and can be very distressing and intensely uncomfortable. Several pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic factors influence the frequency and onset of these symptoms. When allowed to run its course, the syndrome duration is variable (usually one to several weeks) and ranges from mild-moderate intensity in most patients, to extremely distressing in a smaller number of patients who may have side effects for months.

 

And because this site appears not to be in denial, that makes me think that I and my fellow sufferes really belong to a very small and uninvestigated group. At least it makes us special but it also makes me a bit angry

[Altostrata]

I believe people have put prolonged withdrawal syndrome into the entry and it keeps on getting taken out by others. That's how wikipedia works. Revisions occur incrementally.

 

Phil, we do believe withdrawal affects the autonomic nervous system. As to the brain structures involved, it's just conjecture regarding the mental processes they control.

 

The autonomic issues are much more widespread than effects on discrete parts of the brain anyway.

 

The theories about brain regions may indicate which dominoes fall first, but do not describe the global condition.

[Punarbhava]

And because this site appears not to be in denial, that makes me think that I and my fellow sufferes really belong to a very small and uninvestigated group. At least it makes us special but it also makes me a bit angry

 

 

I hear you Claudius. I'd rather be considered "ORDINARY" when it comes to psyche drug reactions. Hard to embrace a title of being "special" when that title involves such horrors.

 

I'm not a bit angry. I'm rageful about this subject however, I have to dampen down this emotion (for now) since, my CNS still can't handle strong reactions. I have promised myself that I will fully express my rage once I'm recovered.

 

In the meantime, I have to avoid feeding my anger on a regular basis. It's too toxic to my CNS, not to mention my psyche. With that said, I am, in no way, in denial about anything, nor wish to be. I'm merely strategizing, planning my recovery path. I need to first heal from the physical. The psychological will be worked on later.

 

I do believe though that healing involves releasing anger as well as initiating constructive and direct action to empower oneself in order to diminish victimization. As my CNS becomes more resilient, I will have work on the anger issues and heal that part of my psyche.

 

BTW, if I'm remembering correctly, Wiki's description about benzo WD does cover protracted WD. They should give equal attention to this aspect of AD WD.

 

Perhaps in time, someone will update the SSRI link or maybe my recall is off. I should click on the links to clarify.

 

Added note: Thanks Alto. I just read your post regarding Wiki and that explains why mention of protracted WD has appeared and then disappeared.

 

 

Punar

[Altostrata]

If anyone wants to jump into the wikipedia fray and argue for prolonged withdrawal syndrome, you can use the documentation here Papers about prolonged antidepressant withdrawal syndrome

[Punarbhava]

I agree Punar, something like this is good info for the average person, I just sent the SSRI link to a friend actually to better understand my problems. These days if there's a wiki page, then people are more likely to believe something, haha.

 

 

You're so right and smart to forward the link to your friend.

 

For some reason, this part disturbed me:

 

One theory states that SSRI discontinuation syndrome is associated with a rostral anterior cingulate Cho/Cre metabolite ratio decrease that may reflect dynamics of rostral anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) function. The ACC appears to play a role in a wide variety of autonomic functions, such as regulating heart rate and blood pressure, and is vital to cognitive functions, such as reward anticipation, decision-making, empathy, and emotion. Neuroscientists indicate the dorsal anterior cingulate cortex is primarily related to rational cognition while the ventral is more related to emotional cognition.[18]

It would explain a lot of the withdrawal symptoms, at least the mental side of them, but it seems very disturbing to me.

 

It is disturbing to read. Who wouldn't be disturbed about such graphic description. I've researched psyche drug WD to death (lol) and comprehend most of the medical terminology. the biological dynamics playing out and the subsequent ramifications of being exposed to the drug, but in the end, it does nothing to speed my recovery, nor ease the horrors of the suffering.

 

So, I try to limit my exposure to such things since, it only deepens my sense of horror and victimization which then increases the intensity of my suffering on all levels.

 

No amount of understanding changes what has happened to me. It only eliminates the confusion (which IS important) however, if I linger too long reading such stuff, I stifle my potential to move forward with hope, determination and a resolve to heal. But, that's how "I" handle things and I'm not suggesting that others should adopt my strategies and/or philosophies.

 

Anyway, I can relate to your reactions Phil. I think most of us respond in the same manner.

 

Vibrant Healing and Complete Recovery to Us All!

 

 

Punar

[Punarbhava]

If anyone wants to jump into the wikipedia fray and argue for prolonged withdrawal syndrome, you can use the documentation here Papers about prolonged antidepressant withdrawal syndrome

 

Thanks Alto! this will make things easier.

 

 

Punar

[Phil]

Thanks for understanding Punar, I agree, best to limit thinking about such things because it does make you feel hopeless.

I'm learning to stop reading stuff like this, hard as it is. And if I inadvertantly do I have to be sure to weed that worry out of my mind, otherwise it festers.

 

Btw, when fully recovered, we must throw a rage party All victims of psych meds are of course welcome.

[Phil]

 

Phil, we do believe withdrawal affects the autonomic nervous system. As to the brain structures involved, it's just conjecture regarding the mental processes they control.

 

The autonomic issues are much more widespread than effects on discrete parts of the brain anyway.

 

The theories about brain regions may indicate which dominoes fall first, but do not describe the global condition.

 

Thanks for this Alto, it helps to understand what's going on.

For me, it helps just having some validation that all these weird issues are infact withdrawal and not something purely psychological.

Speech difficulties, balance problems, vision problems, all that stuff. (I'm presuming they come under autonomic nervous system).

[Altostrata]

Yes, autonomic.

[Punarbhava]

Thanks for understanding Punar, I agree, best to limit thinking about such things because it does make you feel hopeless.

I'm learning to stop reading stuff like this, hard as it is. And if I inadvertantly do I have to be sure to weed that worry out of my mind, otherwise it festers.

 

Btw, when fully recovered, we must throw a rage party All victims of psych meds are of course welcome.

 

It's an instinctual response to scan for danger in an effort to try to protect ourselves from present and future harms. Our alerting system is amplied in WD and thus, we feel this compelling urge to search out information in an effort to protect ourselves from further harm.

 

Yhe more information we have the more easily we can avoid danger.

 

However, this intensified alerting system went into an obsessive mode for me (as is common for many others in WD). The more I searched, the more I needed to search. It was like an uncontrolled addiction .... a WD induced Obessessive disorder at an insatiable level. The more I fed it the more it needed to be fed and it was extremely difficult not to feed it, since fear drives the need/compulsion. Putting the breaks on it was a challenge and a half.

 

My mind went into extreme feeding frenzies (lol). While I laugh at it now, it was torture at the time. I still can get high-jacked in these ways but not nearly to the extremes.

 

In regard to your invitation to the "rage party". OMG, I laughed so hard at your suggestion!! Thanks for the laugh. It was a cost free, toxic-free therapeutic intervention to my day (reading your post).

 

 

BTW, please place me on your guest list. I'll be the first to arrive.

 

Can you imagine how hilarious that would be?? I know we would never harm each other in the process since, we've been through too much and thus, have too much compassion for one another. However, could you plan a few games eg. paint gun blasts to targets with the word "shrink" printed on them. (LOL)

 

I'd like to request a paint gun (or whatever they're called) that looks like a machine gun. (LOL) so I can fire multiple rounds. (LOL)

 

Okay, I'm not a violent person by nature but it would feel very therapeutic to engage in this way to discharge the extreme rage I have at the profession.

 

 

All of us could cry and hug each other between the rage sessions (LOL). Also validating each other's rage, while at the same time encouraging each other to release the pain.

 

I'm envisioning an SNL skit designed around this theme. (LOL)

 

Actually, I better stop typing and move out of this thread ASAP since, I feel like I'm escalating to the point of going on a roll with your idea.

 

 

 

Awww. it was very therapeutic to type out. Thanks DR. Phil!!

 

 

When can I schedule my next therapy session?

 

 

Punar

 

 

 

[Phil]

Wow Punar, I can so relate to what you wrote about your alerting system and the obsessions. I'm so glad I'm not alone in this.

 

Thanks for giving me a good giggle at your suggestions for the rage party

 

This reminds me, I once lived next door to a mission church and the people who went there used to have some kind of "release" sessions. They would be wailing, screeching, and just making lots of strange noises, lol.

 

You will have to wait for your next therapy session I'm afraid Ms Punar, Dr Phil is on holiday until further notice

[Punarbhava]

Wow Punar, I can so relate to what you wrote about your alerting system and the obsessions. I'm so glad I'm not alone in this.

 

Believe me, so many of us have experienced WD induced insanity. I have NEVER had an OCD issue before in my life but let me tell you, WD produced some very severe states. I'm pretty much okayish now (most of the times). I will get flare-ups but they are not insane.

 

Few more months of recovery and they will be gone for good.

 

Thanks for giving me a good giggle at your suggestions for the rage party

 

LOL!!

 

This reminds me, I once lived next door to a mission church and the people who went there used to have some kind of "release" sessions. They would be wailing, screeching, and just making lots of strange noises, lol.

 

LOL! omg, this is exactly what I was envisioning but you have described the details well! LOL!!color]

 

You will have to wait for your next therapy session I'm afraid Ms Punar, Dr Phil is on holiday until further notice

 

 

LOL! Well, Dr.s deserve holidays. Have a good one Phil!

 

Punar

[Nadia]

I swing back and forth still a LOT between researching obsessively and then feeling hopeless or scared from what I read. I don't have a lot of time now, thankfully, so I can't feed my obsession. First thing I should do before continuing is read my old neuroscience textbook and freshen up on basic brain functions... hopefully it's not too outdated!

 

Great idea, Alto, about updating the Wiki article with good references. That's the main reason things get taken down, not having good refs or not using neutral language. If I had more of a science background I might try to tackle it...

[Altostrata]

You can do it, Nadia. I'm sure a lot of the contributors don't have science backgrounds, just citations.

[FeralCatman]

This is an old thread but I thought I would add the following Wikipedia article on 'Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome". The list of symptoms is a pretty good summary of Symptoms and Self care and what people seem to experience.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome