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Female hormone issues: perimenopause, menopause, WD or something else?

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katieb

My guess is both. Double wammy of horrible sympton including radical change in menstrual cycle. Bleeding 3 times in 5 weeks!.Headaches , migraine.Horrible pelvic cramps which I haven't had up until 3 months ago.Night sweats, hot and cold the list goes on all along with my long list of withdrawl sympton. I'M 47.

Just for the record I have had recent pap smear and scans all which came back normal.Any body else feel they might be entering into perimenopause?

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bromor

I highly recommend hormone testing. Peri menopause can mimic WD ~ at least it did for me.

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katieb

I feel that it's both as at the moment especially when I'm bleeding I feel soo bad.Whenever I had my period in withdrawl (paroxatine currently 1.45 ml) in the past my symptoms would get worse during this time

, but recent it seems to be way worse with added extras.

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peggy

if you are 47 with those exacerbated symptoms it is likely to be perimenopause. A blood test can tell you  - I asked my Dr once about that and she said not really necessary unless you have symptoms  - you could consider going onto birth control tabs if the bleeding/cramps get too much.

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bromor

Don't just go on birth control ~ find out why your body is doing what it is. Are there any functional med doctors in your area? My WD symptoms get way worse during my cycle too. I'm doing natural things to help

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Meimeiquest

The Period Repair Manual by Lara Briden is supposed to be good. Her blog is larabriden.com.

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Vonnegutjunky

I'm glad I'm Not the only person wondering this- I had elevated fsh levels last year and my gp said I was in Peri - also my symptoms of wd are so similar to peri - it's frustrating - also my windows and waves follow a specific 2 week cycle - every 2 weeks I feel like I cannot function (I no longer really have my visitor, she came once this whole year) - don't know what to do even if it is peri - I don't think it's helps at all ????

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Petunia

I was having symptoms of perimenopause several years before I quit my AD. I was tested, but the results came back negative, but I was sure that's what was going on, I wanted to go on HRT to stop the symptoms, which I did and it helped. Then I quit lexapro, withdrawal hit, my cycle became very irregular, hot flashes increased and I didn't know what was going on either. The HRT no longer worked, it seemed to make symptoms worse, but I wasn't sure, so I stopped. I tried bio identical creams, but they caused worse symptoms too, so I gave up on those. But 4 years later I'm in complete menopause, still in withdrawal, but most of the peri symptoms have settled down, so for me, it was probably a combination of both.

 

Drugs and supplements which might relieve symptoms of perimenopause in a stable nervous system, can have the opposite effect while in withdrawal, this has been true for me. It can become very complex and its unlikely any doctor or naturopath  will understand what's happening or be able to provide much help if your nervous system is sensitized by withdrawal.

 

Katieb, given your age and situation, I would assume its both.

 

I found that Black Cohosh helped a bit with the sweating and flashes, not much but a bit. I don't need it any more because those are two of the symptoms which settled down for me now.

 

Also see: Hormone Therapy

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katieb

Thanks petunia and everyone for your replies..Im inclined to agree with you.The uncertainty is a bummer but have to just get on with it.This wd really has been the worst time of my life and at times seems too much and never ending. THANK GOD for an understanding husband.

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SquirrellyGirl

I had been on the pill my whole life, and came off it at the same time that I went off Effexor too fast - OUCH!  No doctor ever discussed whether I should still be on them late in to my 40's, never suggested it would be good to take a break along the way...My mom went into menopause at 42 and my sister was done at 50, and I'd had virtually no bleeding on my week off for a long time, so decided I was probably menopausal. I wanted to get rid of every reason for having no libido! 

 

I got slammed with brain fog, intense sweats day and night (drenched sheets), increased heart rate and BP,  and the burning skin sensation which I thought might be due to menopause, so sought testing and bio-identical hormones.   My doctor started me at a low dose with no testosterone, even though all my hormones were in the tank  The creams did nothing for me, and my mood was so low, but by now I was having severe anxiety, insomnia, and depression, which I now believe were protracted Effexor wd hitting even though I didn't know about WD at the time.  

 

Maybe the cream caused the emotional symptoms to get worse, not sure.  My mom remembers taking estrogen like everyone else but that it made her feel apathetic, so she was suggesting that maybe the BIHR was the problem.  However, I remember having the problems before the cream, pursuing testing and replacement hoping that that would be an answer.

 

I stayed on the same script, no changes.  I was put on Remeron because I became so desperate, and it helped initially but then not, as I kept increasing the dose.  Finally, reinstated Effexor and I was right as rain within an hour!    I have just kept using the BIHR because, now that I knew about WD, I didn't want to tweak anything else.  Oh, the hot flashes and burning skin went away once I reinstated so I'm thinking that Effexor WD had a huge part to do with those symptoms!

 

I would say I'm pretty steady, still on the low dose cream.  Still don't want to change that while tapering.  Can't say that my libido is any better, and I am having female problems down there with sex that my gyn thinks is due to menopause, though using very expensive estrogen cream down there hasn't made much difference.  Desperate to recover my sex life, which disappeared when I began Prozac now 20 years ago, never to return.  It sucks to always be acting "as if" when at this point I'd be happy to never have sex again!

 

SG

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Help777

I haven't been able to find an answer on this. I am wondering if I am more sensitive to my estrogen dose during/after withdrawal. I wonder if I shoukd reduce my patch.
I am currently on a fairly high dose of estradot patch 150 (2x75). I asked the dr to go higher a few years ago after the hyserectomy to cover the insomnia, depression and hot flahes even though the pharmacist has been concerned about my high dose.
I wonder now that I've withdrawn from effexor if I am more sensitive to the estrogen and it could be adding to my anger and crying that is lasting a large part of the day? Any insight you have would be really appreciated. Thank you,

Edited by KarenB
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O2bhappy

My crying spells started 3 months after I went off Prozac. I cry everyday for no reason, somedays are worse then others. Since I stopped Prozac I started getting hot flashes and night sweats. I am sure the Prozac mask my symptoms of menopause. How do you manage the crying spells?

Edited by KarenB
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Vonnegutjunky

I have every symptom of low progesterone -

I am in peri now- and once a month before my time of the month I get hit with a wave - a really bad wave

Does anyone have suggestions for a natural way to increase my progesterone? Not supplements, but diet?

I don't want to take anything as I'm doing really well now, 3 out of 4 weeks of the month. I don't want to take something that may set my healing back -

 

Thanks

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JanCarol

I ran across this article in an old herbal of mine:

 

 

Black Cohosh* - Black Cohosh is the non-synthetic answer that assists in providing menopausal relief.  It helps to support they physiology of a woman, especially during stress, and is well known for supporting female health around the time of menopause.  Black Cohosh is an herb native to eastern North America, where it was widely used by Native American tribes.

Studies document that Black Cohosh can help support the physical and emotional changes that occur in a woman's body over time, including occasional sleeplessness and the day-to-day anxiety associated with menopause.  It also has supportive influence on the mood changes that may accompany the menopausal years, and helps alleviate hot flashes and night sweats.

 

A study of perimenopausal and post menopausal women found that both 39 mg or 127 mg per day dosages of Black Coshosh were effective for helping to relieve symptoms associated with menopause1 In a second four-week study, 21 women given a black coshosh preparation for four weeks reported a daily reduction in the number of hot flashes by 50%2.  Reductions were also reported for fatigue, sweating, and occasional sleeplessness.

 

1Liske, E., et al. Physiological investigation of a unique extract of black cohosh (Cimicifugua racemosea rhizoma): a 6-month clinical study demonstrates no systemic estrogenic effect.  Journal of Women's Health & Gender-Based Medicine.  2002.  11(2):163-174

2Pockaj, B. et al. Pilot evaluation of black cohosh for the treatment of hot flashes in women.  Cancer Investigation. 2004 22(4). 515-521

 

*contains claims not evaluated by the FDA

 

Though the title of the first study seems to indicate "no systemic estrogenic effect," there were some "side" effects noted?

 

As always consider new supplements gradually - starting with 1/4 or 1/3 dose and working up to a full dose, as there are some mood properties of this herb, and anyone in withdrawal might react to anything!

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WinningThrough

This is an interesting thread. I haven't managed to read much of it but it's got my interest.

 

I've wondered more and more whether lots of this has to do with menopause. From a lot of the reading I've done about withdrawal, it really seems these drugs mess with people's hormones. They give out psych drugs FOR menopause (crazy idea) so they MUST be having an impact on hormones. Men suffer all the same crazy symptoms women do but maybe psych drugs mess with male hormones too. I mean, there's a male menopause isn't there? It's not talked about much but maybe men go through horrible hormone changes and don't know what's happening to them because it's not talked about.

 

I had shed loads of perimenpause symptoms (but I loved life because I wasn't mentally affected and could function normally). I then got close to full menopause, started having hot flashes every half hour and got a menopause related infection which I should have treated naturally but took antibiotics instead. The one I took is known for being nasty. And bam.

 

But having said all that, I hit my last period around the same time as all this and was already having loads of hormone related anxiety. after my last period and the antiobiotics I went nuts! I can't be sure how much was reaction to antibiotics and how much was crazy hormones and a big drop in oestrogen.

 

A little over three years post menopause I'm still having insane hot flushes and so many of my symptoms could be menopausal. I have all the listed symptoms.

 

I've had my oestrogen and progesterone levels tested and both are very low as I expected they would be.

 

What I don't understand is, I imagine ALL women must have low hormones after menopause so why do some sail through it with no symptoms and others have every symptom in the book? And why, if the hormones pretty much go as low as they are going to and are unlikely to come back up on their own, do women continue to have symptoms? My hormones aren't yo-yoing anymore. My levels are the same as they were a year ago. So surely I should be symptom free if they've levelled out???

 

It's a minefield really! I'm seriously considering hormonal help now. I may have a reaction but at least I'd know if it was going to help or not.

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O2bhappy

WinningThrough -

 

I went into early menopause three years ago. While on Prozac I had minimal symptoms of menopause, except the occasionally hot flash. Several months after going off Prozac I started having constant hot flashes, night sweats, crying and anger. Those could also be symptoms of withdrawal. At times I don't know if it is menopause symptoms or withdrawal. I guess it could be a combination of both. I would think after being in menopause for three years that our bodies would adjust to the low levels of hormones and we wouldn't still be dealing with menopause symptoms.

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O2bhappy

Can withdrawal worsen the symptoms of menopause?

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scallywag

Because there are many interactions between them, the central nervous system, the endocrine system and the immune system could be considered parts of a larger super-system. 

 

Endogeneous hormones change levels throughout the menstrual cycle and affect energy and mood. Decreases in the same during perimenopause also affect energy and mood (CNS). Taking female hormones or changing dosage (endocrine pharmaceuticals) affects the CNS. It makes sense that taking CNS medication or changing dosage affects the endocrine system.

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Junglechicken

Apparently, (and this is something my homeopath told me), GPs don't acknowledge that peri-meno actually takes place, and won't test for it.

 

I encountered this last year, as my GP wouldn't do any tests when I asked to have my hormones tested.

 

Just before and during my TOTM, I will feel intensely hot in bed, (like I am burning up) or sometimes during the day. I guess these are hot flashes??

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O2bhappy

While on Prozac I would have one hot flash at night and that was it.  Three months after coming off Prozac my hot flashes and night sweats increased.  I can have several hot flashes an hour.  It is awful.  I get a weird feeling right before the hot flash.  I also get the same thing before a crying spell.  I can feel it coming on and I start crying. 

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MaryDavid

At times it seems I'm going absolutely nuts! The thoughts, the rage, the anger, the outbursts, the insecurity, the loss of hope. It's unbelievable mental torture and torment.

 

If your experiencing this, your not alone.

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Vonnegutjunky

I was in peri menopause when my medication issues started- now I can’t tell wether  these waves are from the medication or hormones :( I feel like I’m losing my mind ever 2.5 weeks!!! 

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Vonnegutjunky

Reviving this post - 

 

I believe after I updosed, the Paxil began poisoning me, I think  this because my liver enzymes were elevated, and I think that was because of a lack of cyp2d6 due to the Paxil - so I was no longer metabolizing it correctly and it was causing an overdose , that’s the only thing I can think of for it to have created such an intense reaction the day after I updosed. 

 

during the time of my updose I was at the beginning of perimenopause- I am now getting to my actual menopause as I have about 2 periods per year 

 

anyway the 20mg updose affected me very negatively, now that I am down to 8 mg I feel much better HOWEVER, I still get the same waves I felt when I was at 20mg - I get them less intense, but I can’t seem to go more then 3 weeks without getting one - and they always last the same amount of time, about 10-14 days on average 

 

I don’t know if this is menopause or the med still not correctly metabolizing? 

 

For some reason, not knowing what it is really bothers me- and my symptoms are so unexplainable- the only way to describe it is that I just don’t feel right - and I mean on a level where I really get moments like I am losing my mind. I get anxious for sure, but during windows I feel completely normal, and those also last about 15-18 days on average -

 

and what’s so crazy is I can feel the days in between, it’s defintely not one day I feel good the next I feel bad, I have what I call my transition days, I can feel a wave coming on and easing up, and it takes a few days going from window to wave. It’s not like a switch. 

 

i dont have physicsl symptoms, and even as I decreased the med from 20 to 8, I never had one withdrawal symptom (I believe it’s because I have too much of the med in my system) 

 

I am going to try to find a doctor who will do hormone testing, my GP said they don’t have tests that will tell anything- and she just starts you on hormones to see if they help - 

 

cant I just try otc supplements then? 

Does anyone know? 

 

Does anyone think my waves are hormonal or do they sound more like medication related? 

 

Thanks for any insight 

 

 

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MaryDavid
On 03/11/2017 at 4:59 AM, Vonnegutjunky said:

Reviving this post - 

 

I believe after I updosed, the Paxil began poisoning me, I think  this because my liver enzymes were elevated, and I think that was because of a lack of cyp2d6 due to the Paxil - so I was no longer metabolizing it correctly and it was causing an overdose , that’s the only thing I can think of for it to have created such an intense reaction the day after I updosed. 

 

during the time of my updose I was at the beginning of perimenopause- I am now getting to my actual menopause as I have about 2 periods per year 

 

anyway the 20mg updose affected me very negatively, now that I am down to 8 mg I feel much better HOWEVER, I still get the same waves I felt when I was at 20mg - I get them less intense, but I can’t seem to go more then 3 weeks without getting one - and they always last the same amount of time, about 10-14 days on average 

 

I don’t know if this is menopause or the med still not correctly metabolizing? 

 

For some reason, not knowing what it is really bothers me- and my symptoms are so unexplainable- the only way to describe it is that I just don’t feel right - and I mean on a level where I really get moments like I am losing my mind. I get anxious for sure, but during windows I feel completely normal, and those also last about 15-18 days on average -

 

and what’s so crazy is I can feel the days in between, it’s defintely not one day I feel good the next I feel bad, I have what I call my transition days, I can feel a wave coming on and easing up, and it takes a few days going from window to wave. It’s not like a switch. 

 

i dont have physicsl symptoms, and even as I decreased the med from 20 to 8, I never had one withdrawal symptom (I believe it’s because I have too much of the med in my system) 

 

I am going to try to find a doctor who will do hormone testing, my GP said they don’t have tests that will tell anything- and she just starts you on hormones to see if they help - 

 

cant I just try otc supplements then? 

Does anyone know? 

 

Does anyone think my waves are hormonal or do they sound more like medication related? 

 

Thanks for any insight 

 

 

Hi Vonnie

 

Im so sorry to hear about symptoms.  I can relate.  Unfortunately, i am still looking for answers too. Im 45. 

 

Peri-menopause/menopause (I call it horrorpause) is just so unfair really.  

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Vonnegutjunky

 

Mary - can you tell the difference between menopause and withdrawal symptoms? 

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Junglechicken
4 hours ago, Vonnegutjunky said:

 

Mary - can you tell the difference between menopause and withdrawal symptoms? 

 

 

I was wondering that too!

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MaryDavid
On 04/12/2017 at 6:01 PM, Junglechicken said:

 

 

I was wondering that too!

 

On 04/12/2017 at 1:20 PM, Vonnegutjunky said:

 

Mary - can you tell the difference between menopause and withdrawal symptoms? 

 

So im going to breakdown what i go through and whether i believe its withdrawal or peri-menopause(horrorpause):wacko: or both.

 

This is based on the fact that in recent years i started noticing some changes in me especially before my period which i beleive are peri-menopause symptoms.

 

*************************

 

-Overwhelming insecurity which intensifies 1 week before, during and after period - both withdrawal & peri-menopause

-Impatience - peri-menopause (I was normally patient and noticed whilst i was still on medication, my impatience closer to my period)

-Rage - peri-menopause (rage is so so so embarrassing)

-Irritable, intense anger - peri-menopause

-Not wanting to do things and engage with people - both withdrawal & peri-menopause

-Feeling like i cannot think straight or think beyond my daily routine - both withdrawal & peri-menopause 

-Overwhelmed doing housework/shopping - peri-menopause

-Not knowing whether my perception is clear or distorted - both withdrawal & peri-menopause

-Tearful - both withdrawal & peri-menopause

-Avoiding intense people - peri-menopause (as i feel too overwhelmed to deal with too much)

-Mood changes - both withdrawal & peri-menopause 

 

Im not sure if this will help, i hope it will though...It occured to me just then, as im looking at the symptoms, they are mostly negative...like rage, irritability etc...honestly, its just not fair..lol

 

 

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Junglechicken
13 hours ago, MaryDavid said:

 

 

So im going to breakdown what i go through and whether i believe its withdrawal or peri-menopause(horrorpause):wacko: or both.

 

This is based on the fact that in recent years i started noticing some changes in me especially before my period which i beleive are peri-menopause symptoms.

 

*************************

 

-Overwhelming insecurity which intensifies 1 week before, during and after period - both withdrawal & peri-menopause

-Impatience - peri-menopause (I was normally patient and noticed whilst i was still on medication, my impatience closer to my period)

-Rage - peri-menopause (rage is so so so embarrassing)

-Irritable, intense anger - peri-menopause

-Not wanting to do things and engage with people - both withdrawal & peri-menopause

-Feeling like i cannot think straight or think beyond my daily routine - both withdrawal & peri-menopause 

-Overwhelmed doing housework/shopping - peri-menopause

-Not knowing whether my perception is clear or distorted - both withdrawal & peri-menopause

-Tearful - both withdrawal & peri-menopause

-Avoiding intense people - peri-menopause (as i feel too overwhelmed to deal with too much)

-Mood changes - both withdrawal & peri-menopause 

 

Im not sure if this will help, i hope it will though...It occured to me just then, as im looking at the symptoms, they are mostly negative...like rage, irritability etc...honestly, its just not fair..lol

 

 

 

Thanks Mary, what about physical symptoms?

 

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