Freespirit123: Want off drugs

[freespirit123]

Hi I've been on Celexa for 1.5 yrs. 40mg for the most part. Dr just said I should switch straight over to Lexapro, 20mg. It's purer and a cleaner form of Celexa. Basically Celexa without the inactive ingredients. 

 

Anyways I'm wanting to know if anyone has done a straight switch from 40mg of Celexa to 20mg of Lexapro, overnight? 

 

Dr said it shouldn't be a problem bc it's the same active ingredient. 

 

Thoughts pls?

Edited July 15, 2017 by scallywag
merged topics

[scallywag]

freespirit, Lexapro is in fact a much stronger medication than Celexa. What your doctor hasn't told you is that Lexapro, because it is more powerful than Celexa and many other SSRIs, can be that much more difficult to discontinue than Celexa. Because Lexapro (escitalopram) was derived from Celexa (citalopram), it came to market later and its patent protection expires later; you or your health insurer may be paying a lot more for the medication.

 

For those reasons I strongly discourage you from making the switch.  However, there may be something you and your doctor have discussed that isn't in your post. What was your doctor's justification for switching, just the fact that Lexapro is "cleaner" than Celexa?

 

By the way, believing that Lexapro is cleaner than Celexa is marketing bumpf, no different from any "new and improved" product and possibly little different from believing that bad fairies cause depression and anxiety.

 

Later today I will merge this topic with your introduction at this link: Freespirit123: New to drugs and want off.

[freespirit123]

Yes Scally, he suggested I switch just bc it's cleaner 

[scallywag]

Ok. Even if it is "cleaner" you still risk triggering w/d symptoms with a switch.  Some people actually switch from Lexapro to Celexa to taper because Celexa isn't as strong.

 

Tapering off citalopram (Celexa) will almost certainly be easier and require less time overall than switching to escitalopram (Lexapro), holding for several months to stabilize on it, then starting to taper.

[freespirit123]

I've been on Celexa for 2 yrs this August. I was on 40mg then went all the way down to 0mg in Jan. Last yr when I was on 40mg, I felt sooooo great! Finally this is what life was suppose to feel like! I was happy! 

 

Then I read that it can cause health problems so I tapered down to 0mg. That last about a week and had problems, I reinstated and worked my way back up to 30mg. 

 

Ok here's my problem! Ever since I messed with the dosage, it hasn't been the same. I feel depressed, even suicidal. Just not happy and blah! 

 

So about 3 Wk's ago, I went to 40mg and during the 9 days that I went up, my sleep got messed up so after 9 days I went back to 30mg and that's where I am today. 

 

Now I feel like Celexa has stopped working! I feel terrible and just plain depressed, like in a bad way! 

 

Can someone help explain thia to me? If I stopped working, why? Should I continue to taper although being on it is making my life worse?  Im back to taking Unisom nightly and that makes me worse! 

 

HELP

Edited August 5, 2017 by scallywag
merged topics

[freespirit123]

For the love of God can someone help me and respond??

[Why]

6 hours ago, freespirit123 said:

For the love of God can someone help me and respond??

 

Hi. I read your post and i'm sorry for you.

I think you changed doses too fast and that is what caused your symptoms.

 

The problem is it's very hard to understand what's happening to you is caused by tapering or reinstatement, because it  can takes long for syntoms to show in both situations.

 

Since no one has an idea what exactly are the chemical changes in the brain, i'd suggest you to go back at 40 mg and try to stabilyze at that dosage before trying to taper.

Remember the tapering must be very slow (10% cut of the current dosage every month, and even slower and low doses).

 

Sorry i cannot help you more.

I will pray for you this evening

[scallywag]

freespirit -- please post questions about your situation here in your introduction topic. It really is the best place for you to ask -- moderators monitor posts in this forum much more than they do anywhere else.

 

I've merged the topic you started -- "Celexa stopped working?" --  with your intro so that all your information stays in one place.

 

Here's something brassmonkey wrote about drugs seeming to lose their effect:

 

Edited August 5, 2017 by scallywag
added link to brass's explanation

[freespirit123]

Thanks Scally. I read that link and find it confusing. Still I ask the question.....do I hold on 30mg? I def don't want to go up bc I want off these damn drugs! It's causing more havoc then good. 

 

I feel like im losing it! Seriously! This isn't me!!!

 

HELP

[scallywag]

Have you been keeping track of your symptoms and doses?  Please keep notes on paper of your symptoms and the times of your dose(s). This post has a useful format for a daily log:

Take notes of doses and symptoms.

 

Please post your notes each day here as a reply in your introduction. We may see a pattern that suggests a logical next step for you.

Edited August 7, 2017 by scallywag

[freespirit123]

I'm losing myself, my mind and my soul.. I think about suicide daily now and they ONLY reason why I haven't given into it yet is b/c of my sweet precious kids.  I am their life and their everything and it would destroy them.  So I sit in immense suffering, for their sake.

 

I don't know whats happening and I can't talk to my husband b/c he is "normal" and looks at me with this disgust of, "where's my wife?" He misses me terribly and just rolls his eyes when I try and explain that this stupid pills I started 2 yrs ago, has its claws so deep in me and I can't escape.  He just doesn't get it.  He thinks it's simple.

 

Last month, I was sleeping well (unassisted) for like 2 wks! That's a big deal for me, since starting this whole ordeal.  Then I went to increase to 40mg from 30mg for 9 days b/c the 30mg wasn't working, as far as mood goes.  I was in a funk.  Well I really screwed up b/c now I'm in total chaos right now. 

 

I don't know how the terms you guys use but whatever is happening to me is this....I feel like the Celexa has stopped working and now I've gone down the dark rabbit hole of not sleeping again, so I'm taking Unisom and .05-1mg of Ativan like every other night. 

 

So my mind is trapped!  I was up to 4am (4AM!!!!) last night and ended up having to take Ativan b/c I can feel my mind craving it and sure enough I went to sleep.

 

So I can't explain to my husband whats going on.  Friends don't even know.  I can't talk to my Psy b/c all he'll do is hand me pills.  Who can help me with this?  Who can hold my hand and talk me down? 

 

I'm reading Kelly Brogans book "Mind of Your Own" and she talks about mental illness is just a symptom, not a disease.  Well her protocol is extensive......strict diet and reducing inflammation.

 

I just don't know if I can commit to that but I'm trying.  I found it disappointing though b/c I was waiting for her advice on tapering drugs and at the end, she didn't explain it well.... 

 

My only advice on here was to reinstate 40mg but I don't want to do that b/c thats going up, not down. 

 

Please SOMEONE really truly tell me I'll be ok and what to do????

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by ChessieCat
reformatted to regular unbolded font

[powerback]

hi freespirit ,feeling like this is really terrible ,my saying these days is" we will walk through hell together ",I really understand your pain ,I've had a terrible day with depression ,but I try to be mindful of my catastrophic thinking .don't ever think your not worth everything ,try be positive ,do all the positive research you can on depression ,this has helped me somewhat ,my evening is a little better .

I get what you say about your husband ,I myself have resisted the urge to say to my partner how bad I feel today ,I think it gets to a point were we are just repeating ourselves .

Never give up hope and you are not alone for what that's worth .

today was a day that I constantly wonder why I'm coming off them .

hope you get well soon .

PB

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, freespirit123 said:

My only advice on here was to reinstate 40mg but I don't want to do that b/c thats going up, not down. 

 

If you are currently taking 30mg, a small updose may be enough to bring your symptoms to a comfortable level.  By small I mean 1mg or 2mg.  My personal opinion is that it would be better to slightly increase the Celexa which is causing withdrawal symptoms rather than take the Ativan (a benzo and highly addictive, very quickly).  When we reduce our AD dose too quickly we develop withdrawal symptoms because the brain is used to receiving a certain dose of the drug.  Increasing your AD slightly may help with your sleep.

 

These really helped me to understand SA's recommendations:

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

[freespirit123]

12 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

If you are currently taking 30mg, a small updose may be enough to bring your symptoms to a comfortable level.  By small I mean 1mg or 2mg.  My personal opinion is that it would be better to slightly increase the Celexa which is causing withdrawal symptoms rather than take the Ativan (a benzo and highly addictive, very quickly).  When we reduce our AD dose too quickly we develop withdrawal symptoms because the brain is used to receiving a certain dose of the drug.  Increasing your AD slightly may help with your sleep.

 

These really helped me to understand SA's recommendations:

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

But even though I had been on 30 for 6-7mos and only 40 for 9 days? 

[freespirit123]

Hi I’m on Celexa 20mg and tried to go down to 15mg and boy I did NOT sleep! Like really! So now I’m back up to 20mg

 

can someone please post a sort of taper schedule for me? I’m not good with math and thought maybe someone can help with the schedule? TIA

[ChessieCat]

SA's recommended taper is 10% of the previous dose followed by about a 4 week hold:  Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

You reduction from 20mg to 15mg is a 25% reduction.

 

Tapering Calculator - Online (this can be saved)

 

reverse-psychiatry-taper-a-calculator

 

And it is best to throw out the calendar, listen to your body and keep notes on paper Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

 

Making a citalopram solution yourself

 

Edited to add:  It is not necessary to make reductions to the precise amount that the calculator shows.  For instance, if the dose amount has numbers after the decimal point you can take it up to the next whole number (go up, not down).  Or you can round up to the nearest 0.5 or 0.25.  This makes getting your dose much easier.  Remember to use the dose you take and recalculate using that amount for the next reduction.

 

Edited January 15, 2018 by ChessieCat

[freespirit123]

Hi all. Just wanted to post an update and hope all is doing well. For the most part I’m sleeping with only natural supplements. I take unisom and .50 Ativan a few times a month but other than that it’s Magnesium. 

 

So im down to .17mg of Celexa. I’ve been holding on .19-.17mg for about 2 wks. It seems every time I lower to .15mg it rocks my sleep! I don’t know why that’s the magic number to screw me up!

 

anyone suggest natural supplements to maybe help with the withdraw? 

 

Pls don’t tell me to not post here but instead I need to post elsewhere 🙏🏻

[samanthaelizabeth]

On 12/13/2015 at 7:26 AM, freespirit123 said:

Well the drs kept saying I had a sinus infection and I was put on Amox then like a month later it was something else and so forth.  I ended up taking like 6 different ones within a 6 month period, ending with Microbid and then thats when the hell started. 

 

Why does every doctor want to put people on an AD for any symptom?  I don't understand these people perhaps they should be on medication!  Oh it just makes me so angry!

[freespirit123]

It’s been a long time since Ive been on this website. In 2015 I was thrown on a slew of meds from Seroquil to Ativan to Celexa and seriously everything in between. That was the Drs answers to why I suddenly stopping sleeping! I was fine one day and literally a basket case the next and they threw all these meds at me and sent me on my way! So....I tapered off those harsher drugs within 3-5 months of starting them so I wasn’t on Seroquil, Trazadon and all of that for very long but kept on Celexa for 2.5yrs, just finishing 2 wks ago. 

 

I tapered slowly from Celexa, using a weighted scale and just shaving off bit by bit. No rhyme or reason, just little by little and hold til I slept good and then shaved off some more. 

 

I didnt know what topic to start this on bc I’m done but I don’t know if I’m “successful” yet. I’m having terrible headaches and nausea and feeling pretty crummy with suicidal thoughts and such but trying to stay positive and know it won’t last long. The question is, how long? 

 

I was was searching for others that could give me some insight but it’s a bit hard to navigate this site. 

 

So so if anyone could please share their words of wisdom I’d love it! Any supplements that helped? 

[Altostrata]

Hello, freespirit. Here's your Introductions topic.

 

Congratulations on going off Celexa. You're on the way to being a success story.

 

Have your symptoms changed over the last 2 weeks? How's your sleep?

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

A lot of people find them helpful. Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

[freespirit123]

Thanks Alto. Yes I’ve gotten worse in the 2 wks. It’s like a roller coaster. I was down this morning and now I’m ok. 🙄 I’m taking the fish oil and a good probiotic with  Ashwagawnda another things 

[freespirit123]

Hi there. I get really bummed when I post here bc I really need help or advice but all I ever get is “I’m posting in the wrong way” and my post get moved over to one main one and it gets lost in the shuffle and I NEVER get feedback. So then I decide this website sucks and I back off but here I am again and I’ll try one more time! I tried to search for a supplement topic but couldn’t find one. So please admin be gentle bc I’m super fragile these last feyw days! 

 

Dr suggested Pro GAD Enchancer by Neurobiologix? Anyone taken? Pros? Cons? 

 

Im having a terrible time off of Celexa which is crazy bc I tapered slowly and today when I saw my Dr, he said it’s been a month off so what I’m experiencing isn’t withdrawal & he suggest I need to take something. I told him I don’t want meds so that’s when he suggested the supplement above. 

 

Pls help

[manymoretodays]

https://www.neurobiologix.com/Pro-GAD-Enhancer-p/705.htm

 

Here's what came up on your Pro-GAD ^

Supplement topics can be found in our "Symptoms and Self Care section" which you are in now.  If you go to the top of your screen in this section you can type in the topic you are asking about in the Search box........select also "search in this forum" which will come up below the box you can type in.

 

It works on the Gaba receptors and appears to otherwise be know as Phenibut.  Russian Phenibut.

 

Or use your search engine and type in survivingantidepressants.org Phenibut  or any other topic you have a question on in the future.

 

This is what came up first in my search:

 

If I were you and I recently just finished a tapered off of Celexa I wouldn't consider it.   And if you do, certainly do way way less than the recommended amount.  It appears you would develop tolerance on it, and eventually have to taper off of it just as you did with the Celexa.  It could most definitely be more trouble than it is worth.   The Cons convinced me.  Empower yourself though and read up on it and see what you think.  You are still in early fairly acute W/D with a very sensitized nervous system right now.  It can feel very overwhelming........we know this or I remember well.  

 

The only supplements we stand behind using in withdrawal and sensitized nervous systems are Magnesium and Omega 3's.  And I noted that you had tried that in your introduction.  Are you still taking once in a while doses of Ativan?

 

I'll wait to move this back to your introduction after you find it again and read through some of the discussions about it.  You can certainly ask more questions specific to the Phenibut in those topics.

 

Any thoughts on a small reinstatement of Celexa/citalopram?

I'll check on back tomorrow and head over to your introduction and see if we can find any non-drug coping that suits.

 

We just want to do our best to keep the site organized for users just like you. 

 

Love and peace, healing and growth,

mmt

 

Our administration is the best!   

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by manymoretodays

[freespirit123]

Wow you’re awesome for helping me out, so quickly I might add as well as I kept refreshing my post to see if I had a response! And thank you also for attaching the post about that supplement. I’m confused what’s a nootropic? If this is over the counter, why do people seem to react like a benzo? 

 

So for the past 6-8months having a glass of organic red wine (or 2) it’s helping me sleep without any meds or supplements but since getting off of Celexa a month ago, I’m all over the place! And I’ve started taking Ativan with wine along with natural crap to sleep and even so I won’t fall asleep til like 4!!!! I’ll have a “bad” night like once a week whereas I was like once a month. 

[Songbird]

Hi FreeSpirit, I've moved your question to your original intro topic.  We don't have a topic on the supplement you mention, but it seems to be a combination of N-acetyl-cysteine, l-glycine, zinc, magnesium, and phenibut.  We do have topics about all of these supplements.

 

N-acetylcysteine NAC

supplementing with zinc

glycine for sleep

magnesium natures calcium channel blocker

kavinace phenibut or phenyl-gaba for sleep

 

I would be wary of phenibut, it's really a drug rather than a supplement.  It can cause dependence and may need to be tapered.

 

Alcohol in withdrawal is generally not recommended.  Ativan can quickly lead to problems of rebound and dependence.  Combining alcohol and Ativan (or any benzo) can be dangerous and is not recommended.

 

If you tapered from 20mg Celexa in January down to zero now, that seems pretty fast.  As MMT said, you might be better reinstating a small dose of Celexa rather than adding other meds.

 

 

[brassmonkey]

Nootropics are basically recreational drugs that people take to try to be smarter.  It's a very dangerous game to get involved in as most of the drugs have serious side effects that are totally overlooked because of the desire to be smarter and perform better.  For healthy people they may have some benefit but the effects are short lived, lasting only a few weeks and requiring steadily higher doses of the drug.  For people who are suffering from ADWD they are a bug nono.  They affect many of the same systems as psych drugs and can quickly derail a successful taper or make a bad taper even worse.  Phenibut is a very popular nootropic but should be avoided by people in ADWD because it is known to cause a lot of problems and fixes nothing.

 

It's quite possible that the wine you are having at night is causing part of your problems, not to mention mixing it with Ativan.  I know what it's like to be desperate for sleep, but tis is not the way to get it.

 

You signature is way out of date please do some editing and add information about getting off of the celexa and adding the other drugs.

[freespirit123]

Just updated signature. How can I see others? 

 

Anyways I know the wine may not be helping but suggestions on how to sleep?!?! 

[manymoretodays]

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/604-important-topics-about-symptoms-including-sleep-problems/

Down towards the bottom of it is the index to sleep problem posts.

 

I'm glad you found your way back freespirit.

 

It may be the device that you are using will not allow you to see signatures?

Are you still posting from an Iphone?  If you can, access a laptop or desktop, then you can see everything once signed in.

I can't access signatures at all from my Android.

 

This is what we like to see for signatures when you get a chance.  It helps us quite a bit in being able to easily access your information and history.

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

The first post even has an example signature you can model yours after.

Just a bit more detail and dates would be great!

 

Here's our topic on reinstating as well, see if that's something that you think might help.  It looks like you got down to ? 0.17 mg or 0.15 mg before jumping off?  In which case you would only reinstate a very tiny amount if symptoms are still unmanageable........and then taper down again after some time.

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/7562-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

I'm really hoping you can use non drug coping and start to see some patterns of healing.

 

And more on withdrawal and what it is............another whole index of posts on the subject in the first post:

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/603-what-is-withdrawal-syndrome/

 

 

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by manymoretodays
commentary, additional link

[Eqqnok]

On 12/6/2015 at 4:45 PM, freespirit123 said:

So I've been on Seroqoil nightly for about 3-4 months. I started on 100mg and that only lasted one night. Went to 75mg and that lasted for a couple of weeks then 50mg. Last month I went down to 25mg. And about 4 wks ago I've been on 12-14mg (cutting the 50 in 1/2 then the half in 1/2.) I'm also taking Lunesta 3mg at no hr and about once a week ill need Klonopin.25 bc I have a hard time falling asleep. I've also started Celexa for anxiety during the day.

So question and problem! How do I get off this Seroqoil?!? Like is aid I haven't even taking it long to begin with and I've taped to 12-14mg fine but it seems to mess with my sleep when I try and cut that in half. Don't believe I have the EXtended tablet. Help!!! If it messes with my sleep, is it only temp? I don't want to switch this to get hooked on Klonopin bc that's a nasty drug too!

The only suppliment i have found to work is high doses of fish oil. 2000 mg of DHA(not 2000 mg of omega 3)

As far as the taper goes a 10 or 5% reduction is best. My best advice to you is taper by 5% and wait for all the symptoms of that reduction to dissaper regardles if it takes 2,3 or 4 months. That way it takes alot longer, but you will be feeling better. Im saying that to you because that was what my therapist told me.

I myself is in protracted withdrawal because i didnt know my current therapist at the time. You can read and follow my topic and journey if you want. God bless.

[freespirit123]

I thinking of getting back on Celexa. Life without it is awful! I know it’s a bad drug but this is way worse!

 

i need some advice please. I wish I could post this elsewhere to get more eyes on it but every time I start a new thread, I seem to do it wrong and it gets moved over to this post.

 

so does anyone know if I can start a new thread so I get more replies?

 

Ive been off of Celexa since May. It’s been awful! Big time depression, thoughts of my life should end, anxiety, hopelessness etc etc 

[ChessieCat]

Q:  Are you taking anything currently?

 

If yes, then how I've responded below may be different.

 

Because you have been off Celexa since May 2018 it would be best to start with a very tiny dose to see how you react.  I'm thinking 0.25mg.  Think of it as a tester dose.  If after 4 days you don't experience any worsening and no improvement you could then increase by a small amount.  Possibly up to 0.5mg.  It is better to start with a tiny dose, especially after having been off for this length of time, and work up slowly than to take too much and possibly upset your system.   If you do experience a worsening you would stop immediately.  Please read Post #1 of this topic carefully so you understand:  About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

It takes about 4 days for a dose to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain, so if you decide to reinstate it is best to do it nice and gradually and be patient and calm and not panic.

 

Please note that the idea of reinstating isn't to get rid of withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a tolerable level.  You will need to keep daily notes of symptoms so that you can see what effect reinstatement is having.

[freespirit123]

No I’m not taking anything,  other than the occasional Ativan for sleep 

 

so u think it’s withdrawl?

[unclesteve85]

I have been off my paxil for about 120 days. Does it feel like the symptoms for what your were originally prescribed the pills for? That helps me figure out what I am feeling. My w/d from paxil symptoms are way worse /different than my original anxiety symptoms. I would think if you

are on the pills for a while then it is withdrawal. Did you taper?

[ChessieCat]

3 hours ago, freespirit123 said:

so u think it’s withdrawl?

 

My post was in response to this:

 

5 hours ago, freespirit123 said:

I thinking of getting back on Celexa. Life without it is awful! I know it’s a bad drug but this is way worse!

 

Have you been keeping notes about when you take the Ativan and when the issues have worsened?  Do you feel worse the day or 2 after taking the Ativan.  It is a benzo and can cause problems after it has worn off.  It also has side effects:

 

From:  https://www.rxlist.com/ativan-side-effects-drug-center.htm#overview

Ativan (lorazepam) is a benzodiazepine used for the management of anxiety disorders, insomnia, panic attacks, and alcohol withdrawal. Ativan is available in generic form. Common side effects of Ativan include:

Drowsiness

Dizziness

Tiredness

Muscle weakness

Headache

Blurred vision

Sleep problems (insomnia)

Loss of balance or coordination

Forgetfulness or amnesia

Difficulty concentrating

Nausea

Vomiting

Constipation

Changes in appetite

Skin rash

[freespirit123]

Ugh you’re so right! I’m sure it’s the Ativan! So maybe when I take it once or twice a week I’m causing my issues to worsen! Problem is I get so desperate at night! On top of that I’m drinking 

 

thoughts on SamE?

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, freespirit123 said:

thoughts on SamE?

 

Note that is neuroactive!!!

 

my-drugs-withdrawal-and-alcohol

 

beer

 

what-is-the-sleep-cycle

 

tips-to-help-sleep-so-many-of-us-have-that-awful-withdrawal-insomnia

 

Guided Meditations, Calming Videos, Sleep Hypnosis

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

Magnesium

 

melatonin-for-sleep