Barbarannamated: pain<-->depression...chicken<-->egg

January 6, 2012

Thanks again Whatever

I'm really scared right now ~i doubled on that awful trazodone and feel unstable ~

My husband completely ignores me and if I do ask for his help he acts like I'm the biggest inconvenience (he's a doctor ~nuf said)

I'm scared ~i

January 6, 2012

I feel like I have to write even though I have nothing new to add ~things have been hellish since the holiday and I can't get unstuck ~paralyzed~

It looks nice outside but I haven't been able to get energy to even dress or eat ~

I know intellectually how bad this is and snowballs ~i

January 25, 2012

Barb: thank you so much for all your support. We will get through this!

January 25, 2012

Hey Barb... I'm sending healing thoughts your way. I know how hard it is when you're stuck and it seems like you can't muster up the willpower or energy to do anything. I hope you find a way to spiral out. EAT! Baby steps... I know you can do it.

January 27, 2012

I am redirecting your comments about moving out of your current home that was in Nadia's thread to your thread.

As I have followed your story I have felt strongly that you need to find a new home. I was happy to hear you think the same.

If you need support and ideas on how to do this, I am extremely resourceful in these kind of matters. Feel free to lean on me when you and if you are ready.

January 27, 2012

Thanks very much„Whatever~

Ive moved out so many times and was happily in own apartment with divorce un progress when I lost my career and have been on disability since (11 years)~i cant earn any extra money or will lose my income and medical benefits for both of us ~

Disability has been the worst curse for me ~

But I have to keep working on getting outa here ~it's like a black pit in the middle of nowhere

January 27, 2012

Long awake night again~ having reaction to the Armour thyroid and cant get callback from endocrinologist ~left 3 messages with staff and answering system in past several days w no response ~

He was the one doc I trusted ~

On top of that I went on laptop to cancel Facebook account and a full screen message popped up that my account had been accessed by someone in my hometown in PA ~

the only 'support' they give is 'change your password' on FB and email~apparently this happens so often that there is no way they can trace an IP even though they know exactly where it originated ~

I feel so freaking defeated on all fronts

January 27, 2012

Hey Barb, I'm so sorry you are having such a hard time. I don't really know what to say, but you were there for me when I was freaking out, so I just wanted to let you know that I'm here for you. You are a beautiful person and deserve the best.

January 28, 2012

Hey Barb: I'm just checking on ya. Hoping you feel better! Sending you (((hugs)))

January 28, 2012

Hey Barb

What kind of reaction are you having to the Armour thyroid - I am not a medical professional, but I do have some experience in this area and might be able to give you some ideas.

Armour reformulated in ... I think 2009 ... I've seen reports where it caused people a lot of problems. There are alternatives ... NatureThroid (I sent my prescription to a pharmacy in AZ and mail ordered it) and you can legally get ERFA from Canada with a doctor's prescription. ERFA is what Armour used to be. You could call the doctor's office and tell them you need a script for one of the other meds and see if they take action when you make a specific request for action. (I can find the fax number of the Pharmacy in AZ if you want it).

Barb, would it be possible for you to do some other kind of work (different than your former career) where you could have income and healthcare not tied to disability? I realize if you do something like that you will lose what you have. If you simply cannot work then I understand holding on to the disability arrangement. But it feels like it is a limitation that you are choosing to hold on to and I just want you to explore the possibilities.

Hang in there and PM me if you need to ...

Karma

January 28, 2012

In some cases disability will approve some kinds of work if it is beneficial for the disability.

Some years ago a friend of mine who was a lawyer and part-time aerobics instructor had a meltdown and went on multiple pmeds. She eventually went on disability and left her law firm. But her doctor recommended that she continue to teach aerobics because it was beneficial for her mental health and that go approved.

January 29, 2012

Horrid reaction to Vivelle dot estrogen patch and/or progesterone Promethium 100mg~worst depression I've had in very long time possibly ever -- different than dread

1st patch on Thursday and Thursday nite 1st dose of Prometrium 100mg---VIVID bad dreams that I haven't had in years on SNRIs

Woke to the few seconds of ok-ness before 'reality of horrid life' hit me --typical of my great depression of 2008~very diff than dread of wd but cant explain how right now ~

Went out in sun and try to shop buy got sooo low we had to come home~both took nap --alot of lowness in our home~

I removed the patch until I can talk to doc --suspecting this may be hypersensitive reaction due to wd

Armour thyroid 30mg seemed to make me extremely weepy and emotional and a tad jittery but not depressed ~also continuous hot-cold-hot-cold~becoming a speed stripper~ supposed to double that dose now but definitely holding on that ~

Disability issues for another discussion

THANK YOU EVERYONE

January 29, 2012

Barb you are in my thoughts and prayers. You are a very special person.

January 29, 2012

Barb

Were you on any thyroid medication before? When I first started Armour I was initially jittery, but then it settled into feeling energetic after a couple of days.

If you were on T4 only medication before your body may be reacting to the direct T3 that you are now getting. (T3 is the active form of the thyroid hormone - the body has to convert T4 into T3 to use it). If you can't reach the doctor you might consider halving the dose and holding that for 5 days to see how you feel - if you are hypersensitive you may need to go slower than the doc would normally have you go. I was started on only 15 mg of Armour.

A couple of cautions about taking thyroid with T3 that I have learned over the years. If you are anemic you will not tolerate thyroid replacement therapy - it can make you jittery. Did they test for anemia?

If your electrolytes are out of balance (sodium and potassium) it can cause a racing heart - drinking 1/2 teaspoon of celtic sea salt can eliminate the symptoms (regular salt isn't the same - it has to be unrefined sea salt). For me if my sodium is within range, but on the low side of the range e.g. 137 I get a racing heart - I drink 2 teaspoons of Celtic sea salt daily and it keeps my sodium level at about 141-142 (right in range) and I have no problems.

You could post to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormones/ and see what ideas they have. This group is all about natural desiccated thyroid which is exactly what Armour is.

I agree with your decision to discontinue the estrogen and progesterone until you can talk to the doctor. I also wonder about the wisdom of changing so many things at the same time.

Let me see if I understand correctly, they put you on Armour thyroid, estrogen replacement, progesterone replacement and metaformin all at the same time - does anyone else see a problem here?

From my experience there is generally no harm in handling one thing at a time. You may not suddenly feel better, but you should gradually be able to see improvement and as you add something new be able to tell what is helping and what isn't helping. If you weren't getting sufficient thyroid hormone before it isn't going to hurt to slowly introduce an adequate amount.

I balanced my sex hormones after I was optimized on thyroid treatment. I was started on progesterone first and only after I went prematurely full-menopausal did we add estrogen and testosterone. Progesterone and estrogen do need to be balanced with one another, but it is possible that starting you at the full normal starting doses with hypersensitivity is just too much.

Feel free to PM me Barb - I not a medical professional, but I may have some experience that will be helpful.

Karma

January 29, 2012

WHEN will I learn -- 1st warning on Prometrium is 'Do not give to patients with preexisting depression'

It's appearing that progesterone in general may be depressogenic

January 29, 2012

Karma~

Started the 30mg Armour first but only by 1 week

After I put the patch on and ready to take Prometrium I thought to myself 'too many variables' but took it anyway ~ cardinal rule: change one thing at time to know effects of each --where does my common sense disappear to??

RE: anemia -is that H&H ?

If so, values were in normal range:

Hemoglobin: 13.6 [11.7-15.5g/dL]

Hematocrit: 39.9 [35-45%]

FSH: 195.1 mIU/mL [23-116.3] Postmenopausal range

(this has been above Posymenopausal Range since summer of 2010 but other endocrinologist didn't pay much attention to it)

AST: 77 [10-35]

ALT: 54 [6-40]

TSH w/reflex to T4: 4.07 HIGH [0.4-4.5]

--He wants TSH to be around 1

--I don't undertand why he did TSH w/reflex and NOT T3 as he usually stresses importance of T3 and I forgot to ask lab to add fT3 and ReverseT3 - is that ever used as a value to test pituitary function which is what he suspected initially?

All lipids were slightly out of range

Thanks again, Karma!

January 29, 2012

Karma~

Started the 30mg Armour first but only by 1 week

After I put the patch on and ready to take Prometrium I thought to myself 'too many variables' but took it anyway ~ cardinal rule: change onerous thing at time to know effects of each --where does my common sense disappear to??

RE: anemia -is that H&H ?

If so, values were in normal range:

Hemoglobin: 13.6 [11.7-15.5g/dL]

Hematocrit: 39.9 [35-45%]

FSH: 195.1 mIU/mL [23-116.3] Postmenopausal range

(this has been above Posymenopausal Range since summer of 2010 but other endocrinologist didn't pay much attention to it)

AST: 77 [10-35]

ALT: 54 [6-40]

TSH w/reflex to T4: 4.07 HIGH [0.4-4.5]

--He wants TSH to be around 1

--I don't undertand why he did TSH w/reflex and NOT T3 as he usually stresses importance of T3 and I forgot to ask lab to add fT3 and ReverseT3 - is that ever used as a value to test pituitary function which is what he suspected initially?

All lipids were slightly out of range

Thanks again, Karma!

Karma„yes I've been on Synthroid for years --nearly impossible to notice anything happening with that as is works so slowly

January 29, 2012

Barb

It is much easier to give common sense guidance to someone else than to listen to your own common sense yourself, especially when you want to feel well. Don't beat yourself up.

So you started the Armour first but only by one week - were you having the weepy symptoms and jitters and the hot and cold? I hate to say it, but it sounds like your adrenals are not stable. In the medical insert with Synthroid it says your adrenals should be stable before adding thyroid replacement therapy. But as Alto has pointed out we don't have great ways of measuring that ... I am a fan of saliva testing, but when taking Benzos the results can be skewed. So we have to work with what we have.

Ok, here is Karma going all alternative and old-school on you. If you want to determine whether you adrenals are stable one method is to take your temperature 3 times a day and average the temperatures for your daily average http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph. Take the temperatures at approximately the same time every day. Take your first temperature 3 hours after waking and then 3 hours later and finally 3 hours later. Allow 15 minutes without food, drink or activity before you take your temperature. If your average daily temperatures vary more than .2 degrees over a 5 day consecutive period your adrenals are struggling. If your temperatures are low, but not varying then you are just hypothyroid. If you have the variability I would suggest checking out the Adrenal board http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ they are on break for a week right now. You can also look for information on Dr. Broda Barnes.

Hemoglobin 13 seems to be ok, but you really need a full iron panel with serum iron, iron saturation, TIBC and UIBC - that will tell you what is available to your system for use. My observation over the years of participating in the patient advocate group is that Ferritin and Hemoglobin can appear normal, but when we look deeper we find a problem. I had great Ferritin, but low iron saturation for a while and it caused depression and some other symptoms until I got my iron saturation high enough to allow my body to properly use the thyroid.

You may want to work with the thyroid first to get comfortable with that before adding the other things. Initially, you may want to consider cutting your dose back to see if the symptoms abate. This is just a suggestion and you should make your own decisions.

It is scary that the Prometrium warning is 'Do not give to patients with preexisting depression' and your doc prescribed it anyway. That is unacceptable.

You are definitely hypo with that TSH! And your liver enzymes are elevated ... it is possible that once your system is absorbing the T3 from the Armour that your liver will clear naturally. Another option is to take the Armour sublingually - you can chew it a little and leave it under your tongue. That allows it to absorb directly into your tissues without going through the liver.

I don't know if RT3 and FT3 is ever used to test pituitary function, but I can tell you that the patient advocate groups find a lot of people who have been on T4 only meds develop severe RT3 problems. When the body produces too much RT3 the RT3 attaches to the cell receptors (upside down as RT3 is a mirror image of active T3) and it blocks the active form of T3 from getting to the cells - it results in severe hypo symptoms. But there are ways to resolve it. (Thyroid Power by Dr. Richard Shames and Karilee H. Shames)

Let me state again that I am not a medical professional - I am just sharing my experience and what I've observed from participating in very large patient advocate groups. What I find is that it is helpful to educate yourself and take that information to your doctor.

Love and light

Karma

January 29, 2012

Karma ~

Ive had a gut feeling for years that my adrenals have been going but 2 endos tested only ACTH and one cortisol level which turned out looking normal ~

Thank you again for all of your help ~

BTW I'm having severe ' restless body syndrome' the last few nites with insomnia which I hadn't had before this week (or not so regularly)~i fall sound asleep watching Tv but then when I try to 'officially' sleep im wide awake even with trazodone and Klonopin still on board

Meanwhile hubby has been taking temazepam and one of the Z drugs for 15+ years and has never had a minute of insomnia --cant wake him if I try~ NOT FAIR :-(

January 29, 2012

I'm so tired of this existence

January 29, 2012

I agree, too many variables: starting thyroid and combo HRT at the same time.

Why the combo HRT, Barb?

January 29, 2012

Ovarian failure (some lab results are in earlier msg)~very high FSH

why the combo and not just estrogen Im not completely clear about and wanted to ask you if you do estrogen only

January 30, 2012

RE: disability

I've talked to so many people on both SSDI side and private side about how to do ANY work ~ SSDI has a great Return to Work program but my x-employer's program is all or nothing -- if I earn anything I lose everything and that's where a good portion of my benefits come from ~ my doc has worked with me on a return to work plan but no go with private DA ~ Ive interviewed for quite a few positions over the years when I was feeling better and got down to final 2 candidates but lose it ~ I suspect my 10 years out of the official workforce and a work comp injury are red flags -- Im not certain what of that is protected info~ the economy isnt helping of course ~most starting salaries are less than my disability income •

I realize im fortunate to have that but I wish that private companies were required to follow SSDI RTW program ~ it's very scary to jump in full time after 10 years

There are also Vocational Rehab programs but I didnt qualify for that b/c I have a college degree (I think)

Being given long term DA has been very disabling ~all structure has been lost

Taking a course or 2 is something ive looked into but havent put plan into action ~ it's a bit of a relief to know that is a drug induced thing and not just me being lazy or indecisive •

I remain open to suggestions

January 30, 2012

That Prometrium progesterone really messed with me -- drugs•com has Precaution about using in people with "Psychic Depression" ~ I've never heard that term used in medical literature but I know I feel very much worse after using it for 2 nites~

January 30, 2012

That Prometrium progesterone really messed with me -- drugs•com has Precaution about using in people with "Psychic Depression" ~ I've never heard that term used in medical literature but I know I feel very much worse after using it for 2 nites~

Apparently the estrogen patch can cause similar reaction ~i dont have exact details at hand

February 12, 2012

Barb,

I just wanted to check in and see how you are doing. Did you get the doctor to return you calls? Are you finding any relief? Pop in and let us know how you are.

Karma

February 12, 2012

Ovarian failure (some lab results are in earlier msg)~very high FSH

why the combo and not just estrogen Im not completely clear about and wanted to ask you if you do estrogen only

Is ovarian failure the same as menopause?

I use a Menostar patch, minidose of estrogen .14mcg per day, no progesterone.

BUT -- starting thyroid medication and HRT at the same time confounds results, or could exaggerate reactions from one or the other or both.

February 12, 2012

Is ovarian failure the same as menopause?

I use a Menostar patch, minidose of estrogen .14mcg per day, no progesterone.

BUT -- starting thyroid medication and HRT at the same time confounds results, or could exaggerate reactions from one or the other or both.

Alto and Karma ~

I'm taking only Armour thyroid right now -took 15mg for week+ and just increased to 30mg ~

Got a compounded progesterone "25mg SR" after emphasizing ABSOLUTE LOWEST DOSE - have not restarted any HRT and when I do I will take 1/2 or less and one at a time ~that first experience really spooked me --

Alto ~ I left doc wondering the same thing--what's the difference between menopause and ovarian failure and I still don't have a good answer --i don't know if the FSH level that is above the high level for postmenopausal reference range indicates that I have even less estrogen than the little I should have -- the endocrinologist said something to effect of "of course you feel like death -you have no estrogen"~

I was so surprised at the test results that were very different than what he (and I) anticipated I was in full stupid patient mode ~i expected HPA and autoimmune but results showed liver-ovarian-'prediabetic' (grain of salt) and then that gene having to to with folate ~

I got very overwhelmed and not liking doc so much now -- found an Integrative Medical Group and spoke w PA who specializes in Endocrinology who I may change to ~she wants to test for Celiac and candida and mentioned a few other things but didn't want to further overwhelm me which I greatly appreciated •

I will keep you posted ~

February 13, 2012

Husband just informed me that he began tapering Effexor XL about 2 weeks ago ~first cut was 225mg to 175mg I believe ~

Said with great sarcasm that he's 'doing fine and wont have to be counting beads or anything like that' ~

I couldnt sleep most of the nite ~ I feel so trapped in my life and too low energy to do anything about it ~

February 13, 2012

Hello Barb, I'm so sorry about your situation. You deserve so much better than the hand you've been dealt. My heart hurts for you. I wish I had a way of pulling you out of that trap. If I had money, I'd buy you a house and I'd buy me a friend.

February 13, 2012

Thanks Tezza ~ you made me smile :-)

Haven't done much of that in awhile -

Intellectually I know this is a result of all of the things I did not attend to since on ADs and especially since being put on disability in 2001 (read: lost independence) and now seems insurmountable ~

I think most people assume that b/c I'm married to an MD that I'm 'taken care of' and he knows my medical issues better than I do but nobody is aware of how badly he is overmedicated and level of denial going on ~

Something about Whitney Houston's death really shook me this weekend ~ wasn't a huge shock but hearing her music stirred me and I've been bursting into tears every time I hear it ~ I think it evokes memories from better times pre -ADs•

I HATE all the dissection and speculation although I know that's the norm ~

Yes- she had demons - let's leave it at that and appreciate what she gave in her 48 years ~

Sorry for the editorial ~ just went thru this with a friend who committed suicide (49yo)

BTW Tezza--no charge for my friendship-- once upon a time I was a not- so- self-absorbed person ~ or maybe it's a just a wishful neuro-memory…

February 13, 2012

Husband just informed me that he began tapering Effexor XL about 2 weeks ago ~first cut was 225mg to 175mg I believe ~

Said with great sarcasm that he's 'doing fine and wont have to be counting beads or anything like that' ~

I couldnt sleep most of the nite ~ I feel so trapped in my life and too low energy to do anything about it ~

Change 'sarcasm' to 'mocking' - or that's how it felt to me ~

Not trusting my feelings or interpretations of others' intentions right now although I think I'm on target in this case ~

February 13, 2012

Thank you Barb for friendship. I'm so glad that made you smile. Thank you for telling me that it made you smile, too. You made me smile by your reply. {Made my day :-) }

It is really sad about Whitney :-(. I just heard on the news that Xanax and alcohol are suspected culprits. Seems like the majority of people are in the boat with us when it comes to drugs and careless doctors.

February 13, 2012

Oh, and I'm sorry about your friend. It REALLY hurts when someone we are close to commits suicide. My father-in-law did a few years ago. He had been depressed and hospitalized for over a year. He'd only been out of the hospital for three days.

February 14, 2012

Tezza,

I'm very sorry about your father-in-law, too.

February 14, 2012

This may console you, Barb -- seems like a lot of people do okay until they get about half-way down on Effexor, then blammo.

Barbarannamated: pain<-->depression...chicken<-->egg

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