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Eckhart Tolle: The Pain Body and Mental suffering during withdrawal

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Shanti   
Shanti

Depression, Anxiety – When the Pain-Body Awakens – Teachings of Eckhart Tolle

 

Go to the link for the Podcast.

 

From the description:

 

On this episode of Living with Tolle we talk about the pain-body, a powerful spiritual insight Eckhart Tolle first introduced in The Power of Now. We explore how the pain-body manifests in life and strategies for dealing with the short term and long term effects.

 

 

What is the Pain-Body?

 

The pain-body has been described by Eckhart Tolle as past emotional pain alive in your life today.

 

The pain-body is a living entity or energy field that is attached to the authentic expression of your life. As such, it can be described as a parasitic energy field engorging itself on your life energy. Think of a tapeworm: it releases a chemical in the body that makes you crave food that feeds and engorges the parasite, but is actually bad for you.

 

“The pain-body is a semi-autonomous energy-form that lives within most human beings, an entity made up of emotion. It has its own primitive intelligence, not unlike a cunning animal, and its intelligence is directed primarily at survival.

 

~ Eckhart Tolle, A New Earth

 

 

But the pain-body is not just a personal problem. The pain-body is a collective phenomenon. The pain-body is transferred to the individual through social and cultural conditioning. You experience the collective pain-body on a personal level and through the many ways it can manifest in your life. In fact, the collective pain-body survives through individuals remaining unconscious and contributing “pain” from personal experiences.

 

Eckhart has stated that your greatest responsibility is to personally cleanse yourself of the pain-body, so you no longer add to the collective pain-body.

 

Why is acceptance such a powerful spiritual practice in dealing with the pain-body?

 

The pain-body has two states: active and dormant. When it is active, it is a sign that you are not conscious enough to keep from reacting to life from the pain. And even though it may be uncomfortable and counterintuitive, when the pain-body is active the only constructive response is to be in acceptance of what is happening in this moment.

 

“The beginning of freedom from the pain-body lies first of all in the realization that you have a pain-body. Then, more important, in your ability to stay present enough, alert enough, to notice the pain-body in yourself as a heavy influx of negative emotion when it becomes active. When it is recognized, it can no longer pretend to be you and live and renew itself through you.”

 

~ Eckhart Tolle, A New Earth

 

 

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Nikki   
Nikki

I think this is like the "old tapes playing over and over again" and detaching from them.

 

Wreckage from the past I suppose....

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Shanti   
Shanti

Yes, that is a good analogy.

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SquirrellyGirl   
SquirrellyGirl

When I was in protracted withdrawal from Effexor last year, I didn't realize what was happening.  I had never felt such darkness and fear.  Feelings of doom, dread, and thoughts of not being able to go on were unlike anything i had experienced before in my life.  It was a truly terrifying time.

 

I ended up reinstating and it worked, and now I am tapering and hopefully will avoid all of that again.  But I read threads here from people who are in that dark place, especially when a wave won't abate.  It seems that nothing anyone has to offer helps.  

 

I didn't know what was happening, and that ended an extra scary element to my suffering.  Had I know it was withdrawal, I might have been able to cope better.

 

I learned about Eckhart Tolle from someone on SA, sorry that I don't remember whom.  Eckhart's teachings really brought me peace, and I wonder if they would have made a difference had I been aware of them when I was in that hell.  Maybe not, but maybe!

 

Even before drugs and withdrawal, I was a negative person with low self-esteem.  Withdrawal brought this out 10X.  No, 100X!  You get the idea.  I am including two youtube videos here by Eckhart about the Pain Body.  I've always had a strong Pain Body, was totally identified with it.  I think withdrawal makes the Pain Body take on heightened proportions, like King Kong!  Anyway, awareness is the beginning.

 

I hope these audios give someone some peace while healing.

 

SG

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PCSe2cqY_w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnUywv80CZY

 

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Chochka   
Chochka

Hi SquirellyGirl, it's Chochka. Thanks for your advice to join this forum. I've felt terrible for months now, even though I've only just come off prozac. I don't want to go back on again as I think it stopped working for me a while ago. I've just got to get through this. I will certainly listen to these. See you soon. 

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KarenB   
KarenB

Thanks for posting this SG - I think many of us will identify with these feelings. 

Karen

x

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SquirrellyGirl   
SquirrellyGirl

Hi KarenB, 

 

Yes, I love the explanation about the Pain Body.  I love to think of it as some little entity trying to manipulate me, but I won't have it!  If you can just get past Eckhart's mug....LOL!  I really like listening to the clips of him speaking live with students because he really has quite the sense of humor and a silly little laugh :-)  

 

SG

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Idecidedtolive   
Idecidedtolive

Thank you for posting this SquirrellyGirl. I am just on the first few steps forward and was having a really stressful and gloomy day. And then I listened to these thanks to you. :-)

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SquirrellyGirl   
SquirrellyGirl

Thank you for posting this SquirrellyGirl. I am just on the first few steps forward and was having a really stressful and gloomy day. And then I listened to these thanks to you. :-)

Wow, I am so happy to know that this helped, idecidedtolive! 

 

SG

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Seeker53   
Seeker53

OMG SquirrellyGirl!!!!! Those two videos you posted are great. My mind is blown! I honestly believe if I had watched them years ago, I would never have needed ADs. It's so simple yet so profound. I will keep rewatching these to remind myself to be a watcher!

 

However, I do wonder if it would have helped when I was in the thick of my wd last time. I didn't even relate my vicious symptoms to anything that I could control with my mind. To me, then, the wd felt so physical. Like I was in such a dark place that nothing could penetrate it or help control it. It was a horrible time! I spent hours and hours listening to meditations, calming talks, music, taking showers, anything! Hence why I not only went back on Effexor, but had my dose doubled. And happy at that time to do so.

 

Now I have sa on my side and the knowledge at my fingertips. These videos sum up how I was living prior to meds. Feeding a monster! So as my meds decrease over a long time with my slow taper, my feelings and thoughts will start to return to their prior-med state and I will be able to watch how they try to stay alive. Wow! And if I taper properly, I should avoid the out of control problems that woke me each day. (I don't mind having a much less overpowering version that I can deal with). These videos will be a powerful tool to help with all that.

 

Thanks again for posting them, S53

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starcontrol2   
starcontrol2

Hi SG,

 

Thank you for posting these.

I wish reinstatement had worked for me. I am in what you describe this dark, scary place and noone can help. I know it's withdrawal, I don't know if knowing this helps as sometimes i think this is the way i will be or that i need some kind of med to be able to function, both absolutely false thoughts.

I read Tolle many years back(no meds), i tried to put his principles to use but it didn't really work.

Now that I am many times worse, I find the videos a little relaxing while i listen but I can't relief pain and despair.

Tolle suffered for many many years before his brain "rewired" and reached "enlightened" state. Just like any activity physical or mental it requires years of practice. Same with Buddha, who suffered for many years before he found his path.

I very much would like to accept the now and not suffer.

If anyone can add some hints on that I would be greatful.

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Georgina   
Georgina

I have been listening to the audiobook "The Power of Now" over the last two weeks and it is so fantastic. I can already see and feel a difference in my life. I really recommend it!

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SquirrellyGirl   
SquirrellyGirl

Hi SG,

 

Now that I am many times worse, I find the videos a little relaxing while i listen but I can't relief pain and despair.

Tolle suffered for many many years before his brain "rewired" and reached "enlightened" state. Just like any activity physical or mental it requires years of practice. Same with Buddha, who suffered for many years before he found his path.

I very much would like to accept the now and not suffer.

If anyone can add some hints on that I would be greatful.

Hi starcontrol2, thanks for commenting.  I fully recognize that a lot of people get into the state that you are in where none of the techniques to soothe the emotional turmoil seem to help, but I still think it is good to try and I'm glad you had a listen.  Georgina is in a place where it can help, and who knows, soon you may be as well  :D

 

I hadn't discovered Eckhart and meditation and the like when I was still in bad withdrawal, so I have no idea if it would have helped then or not.  It may be one of those things where when in a window the ideas could seep in and stick better and then become helpful for later waves. I know a friend from SA said there was a time where she just couldn't receive helpful info like that, but later she could.  It may be because the emotional anguish you are feeling is purely chemical (neuro emotions).

 

As far as I was concerned, I'd had years of dysfunctional thinking that caused low self-esteem, lack of confidence, etc., well before drugs, so it was a relief for me to learn what he had to teach, without much work, either!  I just found the idea that my feelings were running the show but that I didn't have to be identified with the thought form such a relief!  Our thoughts cause our suffering, and we don't HAVE to have them!  But when having neuro emotions they do have a life of their own.

 

I still think too much, so haven't been very disciplined about meditating and emptying my mind of thoughts.  Thankfully, my thoughts are not full of worries and self-judgement like they used to be, so that is a relief!

 

SG

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Petunia   
Petunia

I read 'The Power of Now' a long time ago, probably shortly after it was published, I was on SSRIs at the time. While emotions are being suppressed, it makes it less likely for our 'pain body' to be triggered.

 

But even so, reading the book was a turning point in my life, it gave me some tools I could use to help me live more consistently in the present moment and avoid unnecessary anxiety which comes from habitual thinking about an imagined future. For a while I carried the book around with me, if seemed like it contained magic.

 

But going through withdrawal has taken anxiety and run away thought processes to a completely new level. When I was at my worst, my 'pain body' was all I knew of myself, it was activated all the time.  I was too late to be able to reinstate and so I'm having to work with this pain body aspect of myself, learning how to face it and integrate parts of it into my whole self, and let go of what's not real, its an ongoing process.

 

Being in the present moment is the only way I've been able to remain sane and at times I've had to fight with everything I have to keep my thoughts from spiraling out of control into an imaginary nightmare version of the future. Its been the most difficult circumstances in which to be in 'the now', because the now contains very unpleasant sensations and the impulse is to escape from them. But withdrawal hit and it was like it was my time to 'pay the piper', no more running because running meant escaping into my thoughts, which had become  nightmare versions of themselves. So being in the now has been the only way I've remained sane. By facing my present moment discomfort and letting it be there...no matter how bad it gets, that's how I avoid causing the secondary conflict, which adds fuel to the fire (more fear) and the suffering starts to decrease.

 

We have a topic on neuro-emotions, which suggests that the intense emotions aroused in withdrawal are in fact not real. They are obviously not part of who we normally are, but I've always questioned the idea that they are not real. To me, they have felt very real, connected to me in some way and shocking because until now, I've never had to consciously face things so hideous and unbearable about myself. If we are going to call this our 'pain body', then perhaps it isn't an original part of who we are, but something which developed over the course of our life, through experiences, since birth, but definitely attached to us, until we somehow manage to dissolve it, or at least minimize its influence over our lives.

 

Life would be much easier if we never had to encounter such a thing, but the idea of a previously well suppressed 'pain body' being unleashed by withdrawal works well for me.

 

Before my antidepressant era, I had a persistent pain body which was getting more and more difficult to ignore. I had become consciously aware of this 'negative' aspect of myself during my early 20's, through reading other self help books and by discovering my own ability to watch my thoughts and actions, but back then, I didn't understand the importance of watching without judgement, I became my own harsh critic and found myself in lots of conflict with my own natural  patterns.

 

Not only did I have poor self esteem, a harsh inner critic, and difficulties managing my emotions, but then I became critical of myself for being this way, once I became aware of it. It took me a long time to understand that accepting reality meant also accepting what I've been conditioned to believe were the unacceptable realities about myself, including having emotions at all, ...its work in progress.

 

Zoloft had shut all that down to a large extent, my inner explorations, my conscious attempts to grow, heal and integrate got covered in a thick, sludgy glue-like experience. I knew my life used to be on a different path, but somehow it didn't seem important any more... I ate ice cream, watched TV and played video games at night instead of reading books and meditating.. I had become more main-stream normal.

 

 

When I was in protracted withdrawal from Effexor last year, I didn't realize what was happening.  I had never felt such darkness and fear.  Feelings of doom, dread, and thoughts of not being able to go on were unlike anything i had experienced before in my life.  It was a truly terrifying time...

 

...I've always had a strong Pain Body, was totally identified with it.  I think withdrawal makes the Pain Body take on heightened proportions, like King Kong!  Anyway, awareness is the beginning.

 

 

I agree, whatever we call the intense emotions and sensations which are caused by withdrawal, for most of us, its impossible to remain unaware of them. The first step in solving a problem is to become aware of it... to see it, to shed some light on it.  Perhaps that's what enlightenment really is, bringing things up into the light, seeing what's really part of us and what isn't and letting go of what's not, including all the scary stuff which has been hiding down there in the dark.

 

Tolle suffered for many many years before his brain "rewired" and reached "enlightened" state. Just like any activity physical or mental it requires years of practice. Same with Buddha, who suffered for many years before he found his path.
I very much would like to accept the now and not suffer.
If anyone can add some hints on that I would be greatful.

 

It can be difficult understanding how acceptance of the now leads to the end of suffering. It helps to first understand the difference between pain and suffering. We can never avoid pain, that's part of the experience of life in a physical body. Suffering, I believe is a purely human experience, we have a unique 'mind', which is able to compare different states of existence in time. We learn, through our cultural conditioning non-acceptance of the current reality in an attempt to create better and better outcomes for ourselves through life. The down side of this is that when we find ourselves in unpleasant situations, with no possible escape, our habit of non-acceptance, through our programmed mind patterns causes suffering, through conflict between the current reality, the impulse to escape and our mind locked into a loop of trying to solve an unsolvable problem.

 

So, to end the suffering, our mind has to be unlocked from its patterned activities and made still, so that we relax into reality, whatever it contains, there may still be pain (sensations), but with no judgement and no striving to escape, there is no longer any suffering. If the pain is emotional, it always comes to a natural conclusion if left alone and allowed to move through the body. Much of our physical pain is self resolving too, if we leave it alone. Our bodies have evolved to self heal, if given the right environment and conditions.

 

Acceptance of 'the now' does take a lot of practice because most of us have been locked into our conditioned past/future thought processes for years, with no awareness at all. If someone is born into a favorable life and situation, who doesn't encounter much difficulty, then there is little incentive to do the work or even step on 'the path' in the first place.

 

For me, I see withdrawal as life shoving me back onto a path I made the mistake of falling off by starting on SSRIs, but now I get to do the fast paced, intense course because I wasted so much time.

 

This thread should probably be moved to the 'finding meaning' forum, there's an Eckhart Tolle topic there already.  If there is no further discussion here in the next few days I will do that.

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SquirrellyGirl   
SquirrellyGirl

Petunia, that was a really beautiful post that resonated with me completely.  Had I encountered these teachings before I'd gone on the meds, I don't know if I'd have been able to receive them or not.  But I do know that my years on meds made doing any work pointless.  As you wrote:

 

"Zoloft had shut all that down to a large extent, my inner explorations, my conscious attempts to grow, heal and integrate got covered in a thick, sludgy glue-like experience. I knew my life used to be on a different path, but somehow it didn't seem important any more... I ate ice cream, watched TV and played video games at night instead of reading books and meditating.. I had become more main-stream normal."

 

I gave my 21 year old nephew "The Power of Now' for Christmas because my sister said he had been having serious anxiety, worrying about the future.  I don't know that he will be able to receive the lessons, but i hope so.  I told her "please don't let him go down the slippery slope of psych meds if he can help it!"

 

Thank you for your response, Petunia!

SG

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SquirrellyGirl   
SquirrellyGirl

I get such comfort from Eckhart's teachings, and often share clips from youtube with others who might benefit.  Just shared this one a few moments ago, makes so much sense and he makes me laugh.  I can just listen to these over and over.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze0-vGa-MQ8

 

SG

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Drugrage   
Drugrage

I just want to jump in here and say that Eckahart Tolle is the biggest discovery i have ever made. 

You know that feeling in school when you learned a new way to see things. 

that feeling x 1000 when i read his books. 

So i approve of the message Ts

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SquirrellyGirl   
SquirrellyGirl

I just want to jump in here and say that Eckahart Tolle is the biggest discovery i have ever made. 

You know that feeling in school when you learned a new way to see things. 

 

that feeling x 1000 when i read his books. 

 

So i approve of the message Ts

You said it, Drugrage!  I feel the exact same way!  I wish I had learned about his teachings a long time ago!  Maybe I never would have taken that first pill....

 

SG

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Georgina   
Georgina

I just ordered 'A New Earth' - am quite looking forward to it! I hope everyone is good x

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Junglechicken   
Junglechicken

SG and Petu - thank you both.

 

Petu, brilliantly articulate perspective of the "Pain Body".

 

Let's just say that I am standing at the bottom of Mt Everest contemplating the mental state I need to strive for.

 

A strange thing happened after I listened to the audios and spoke to my hubby - the horrible lower ab pain I was experiencing just vanished.

 

JC x

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SquirrellyGirl   
SquirrellyGirl

 

A strange thing happened after I listened to the audios and spoke to my hubby - the horrible lower ab pain I was experiencing just vanished.

 

JC x

 

Holy Wow!  He did talk about how the PB causes physical pains.  That is so cool!  That's a great start!  Don't be discouraged if the pain comes back - this is just proof of how powerful the mind is.  I listen to those over and over.

 

My husband had a horrible neck crisis due to stenosis, ended up having two levels of fusion in his neck.  He was still in so much pain after the surgery, constantly complaining of it and remarking that he never should have had the surgery.  The months and years went by.  At some point I noticed he never spoke of the pain and so I asked him, How's your neck?  He remarked that it didn't hurt as much, but that he still had pain.  The main difference was that he found that the more he thought about the pain, the more it hurt, so he chose to not think about it!  He had that surgery the day before 9/11, and he has never gotten into using pain relievers of any kind.  The mind is very powerful indeed!

 

SG

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Junglechicken   
Junglechicken

It came back this morning SG except to lower back not lower ab.

 

Your husband is a great person to learn from I think.  He has achieved the mindfulness.

 

I'm nervous this morning because we are seeing the nurse today then the doc on Fri - have had a racing heart, pacing, upset stomach, lower back pain which came out of know where.

 

Going to go for a walk me thinks.

 

JC

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SquirrellyGirl   
SquirrellyGirl

It came back this morning SG except to lower back not lower ab.

 

Your husband is a great person to learn from I think.  He has achieved the mindfulness.

 

I'm nervous this morning because we are seeing the nurse today then the doc on Fri - have had a racing heart, pacing, upset stomach, lower back pain which came out of know where.

 

Going to go for a walk me thinks.

 

JC

 

Yes, my husband is annoyingly Present, naturally! LOL!  He does have a Pain Body, though :-)

 

I do think that a lot of your physical stuff is probably generated from emotional upset.  You are the opposite of me, keenly aware of every ache and pain.  I, on the other hand, spent years NOT listening to my body, not paying attention and so not making the connection that the drugs were actually making me worse! But that goes with self-abuse, something I practiced for many years.

 

So, to find the middle ground.  I think it is very wise and self-nurturing to take that walk, good for you!  I think you'd benefit greatly from reading or listening to the Power of Now or A New World, by Eckhart Tolle. Or plug in another author, Kabat-Zinn etc.  I kind of got overzealous about ET because his message messages resonated so completely with me, so my days were filled with watching/listening to Youtube stuff of his.  But you know, by spending my time that way, I wasn't spending it obsessing on my fears/worries/negative thoughts!

 

SG

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Bruin   
Bruin

Am new here and struggling with my protracted withdrawal but Eckhart Tolle has helped me enormously. I too spend a lot of time listening to his recordings and watching the youtube videos. He is a truly great teacher .

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Hopefull   
Hopefull

I am an open minded person, but calling pain an illusion is a bit strange.

Pain is pain, there is no illusion about that.

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SquirrellyGirl   
SquirrellyGirl

There is physical pain, but it is how you think about it that impacts you the most.  If you constantly ruminate over physical pain, agonizing that you have it and what if it never goes away, you will suffer more than if you don't put all that energy into thinking about it.  My husband is an example  He had two levels of fusion in his neck and after the surgery he was in so much pain, and it went on and on for months, such that he often declared he wished he'd never had the surgery.  Then, one day it occurred to me that I hadn't heard him complaining and so I asked him how his neck feels.  He said "It still hurts, but I found when I thought about it, it hurt more, so I just decided to stop thinking about it."

 

There are people who have horrible physical injuries or illnesses who blow us all away with their positive attitude, though we imagine that if we were in their shoes there would be no way we'd be able to handle it the way they are.

 

I think that is what ET is trying to say, that it is what the mind does with the pain that causes suffering.

 

Many people on SA have agonized over their withdrawal, creating secondary fear for themselves, and indeed neuro emotions are withdrawal symptoms.  However, many have declared that when they finally stopped fighting it and accepted their withdrawal, they then felt better and even had windows.  The ruminating can keep you in a wave!

 

SG

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Hopefull   
Hopefull

I agree that reumanating about WDS can keep you in a wave.

The most frustrating thing is when you start to feel better, you forget about WDS, but when it reappears it triggers anxiety and worsening of WDS.

It is like you are constantly being pulled down and reminded of the pain and suffering, when all you want to forget about the whole thing and move forward.

Moving forward is hard when you are being reminded of how you felt.

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CaptainJackSparrow   
CaptainJackSparrow

I think it is an ego shock and the shock of the ego as it adjusts and finds acceptance in the new way of thinking and feeling which was there before but for me i seemed to have rejected

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Junglechicken   
Junglechicken

That's an interesting view CJS.

 

A damaged ego, and the not knowing when we will be fully healed is hard to accept and just fuels our emotional and physical pain.

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btdt   
btdt

I agree that reumanating about WDS can keep you in a wave.

The most frustrating thing is when you start to feel better, you forget about WDS, but when it reappears it triggers anxiety and worsening of WDS.

It is like you are constantly being pulled down and reminded of the pain and suffering, when all you want to forget about the whole thing and move forward.

Moving forward is hard when you are being reminded of how you felt.

 

I am not sure.  I had a time in wd when I was in such a negative state I could not look at a wd site I was on the edge and I came to a realisation later that it was just a state of healing that was caused by wd that for me hit later in the process.  I do think seeking other options to heal at the time was a great help and during that seeking I found the book the power of now quite helpful. Tho I don't get this one so much. 

peace all

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Lex2Nothing   
Lex2Nothing

Oh WOW!  I've just listened to the audio book 'The Power of Now' this weekend.  Elkhart Toll and others like him i.e Ram Das, Tich Nhat Hahn, Tara Brach, Jack Kornfield are kinda all in the same vein.  But there's no-one like Mr Tolle who can really describe panic attacks and depression and to so lovingly help people find the real gold inside themselves (even if its been buried for years under psych meds).  And I went to my second buddhist meditation yesterday!  And due to insomnia, fell down this 'web hole' and instead of chasing the rabbit, it looks like I'm here for some serious 'Turtle' training.  This is my very first post on any website ever.  So things are getting a bit different for me now.  Slow is fast, fast is smooth.  I commiserate with anyone tapering off 'side -Effexor'.  That stuff sure is straight from some Big Pharma's bottom.  I'm tapering off Lexapro: went too hard too fast last week got down to 7.5mg from 20mg .  Yep, if it wasn't for the wisdom of the authors and teachers aforementioned and reinstating to 15mg.  I would be in a fetal position, not eating, not bathing, Just riding endless ghost trains of negative thoughts.  I've been on AD's for 22 years now and my anger at being stooged by doctors and pharmaceutical villains is like nuclear waste sometimes, so toxic, poisonous.  And I'm aware that that's unhelpful.  And I'm aware that I'm aware of that and it can just drive me deeper into a waste land of despair.  But with practice I can catch the thoughts sometimes and say to myself 'oh there goes an express train of thought to Hells-ville, do I want to board that or not?'  I'm blown away by what I've read on this website thus far.  I don't feel so small, separate and alone with this AD withdrawal thing.  Like I read the posts and go OMG me too.  Well its 3am here in the southern hemisphere and I better try and look at the back of my eyelids.  Thank you everybody, thank you to the  person/people who have initiated this site.  I feel like I just got a sweet letter to my soul.

 

yours in tapering solidarity Lex2Nothing

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Rockingchaircat   
Rockingchaircat

I agree that reumanating about WDS can keep you in a wave.

The most frustrating thing is when you start to feel better, you forget about WDS, but when it reappears it triggers anxiety and worsening of WDS.

It is like you are constantly being pulled down and reminded of the pain and suffering, when all you want to forget about the whole thing and move forward.

Moving forward is hard when you are being reminded of how you felt.

Yes.

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btdt   
btdt

Oh WOW!  I've just listened to the audio book 'The Power of Now' this weekend.  Elkhart Toll and others like him i.e Ram Das, Tich Nhat Hahn, Tara Brach, Jack Kornfield are kinda all in the same vein.  But there's no-one like Mr Tolle who can really describe panic attacks and depression and to so lovingly help people find the real gold inside themselves (even if its been buried for years under psych meds).  And I went to my second buddhist meditation yesterday!  And due to insomnia, fell down this 'web hole' and instead of chasing the rabbit, it looks like I'm here for some serious 'Turtle' training.  This is my very first post on any website ever.  So things are getting a bit different for me now.  Slow is fast, fast is smooth.  I commiserate with anyone tapering off 'side -Effexor'.  That stuff sure is straight from some Big Pharma's bottom.  I'm tapering off Lexapro: went too hard too fast last week got down to 7.5mg from 20mg .  Yep, if it wasn't for the wisdom of the authors and teachers aforementioned and reinstating to 15mg.  I would be in a fetal position, not eating, not bathing, Just riding endless ghost trains of negative thoughts.  I've been on AD's for 22 years now and my anger at being stooged by doctors and pharmaceutical villains is like nuclear waste sometimes, so toxic, poisonous.  And I'm aware that that's unhelpful.  And I'm aware that I'm aware of that and it can just drive me deeper into a waste land of despair.  But with practice I can catch the thoughts sometimes and say to myself 'oh there goes an express train of thought to Hells-ville, do I want to board that or not?'  I'm blown away by what I've read on this website thus far.  I don't feel so small, separate and alone with this AD withdrawal thing.  Like I read the posts and go OMG me too.  Well its 3am here in the southern hemisphere and I better try and look at the back of my eyelids.  Thank you everybody, thank you to the  person/people who have initiated this site.  I feel like I just got a sweet letter to my soul.

 

yours in tapering solidarity Lex2Nothing

Welcome to SA 

peace

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dowdaller   
dowdaller

I am a year off effexor, I wouldnt have got this far without tolle and jon kabat zinn, at the moment I am going through a sticky patch, I have gone back to reading, zinn. When I am okay I can easily put myself in the watcher position. But when my head is full of ocd thoughts I struggle to put in the days. I am determined to keep going and trying to practice living in the now.

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DrugfreeProf   
DrugfreeProf

I read Eckhart Tolle's books, The Power of Now and A New Earth, shortly after my oldest daughter passed on in 2007 due to suicide. (I have recently realized she probably became suicidal due to the introduction of several different antidepressants over a short period of time.) Those books and Eckhart's lectures saved my life and sanity.  I also began to meditate and practice acceptance. I highly recommend this material for coping with withdrawal symptoms, if you can wrap your mind around them--and I can understand if sometimes that is just too hard to do. But it is great stuff. Acceptance is key; when you accept suffering, it is no longer suffering but instead is pain. There is a difference. Suffering is a rejection of what is; pain is just pain. I know--it's easy to say and hard to do.

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