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grandmaD

grandmaD: turtle here

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grandmaD

Wow, reading through lines of the story of your incredible journey, all I see and feel is an excellent example of a super strong soul and spirit! It makes me heartbroken seeing the amount of your suffering! I admire you Grandma!

 

I believe You will make it to the end of this long tunnel as you get what it takes, the most incredible strength and wisdom a human being can possibly possess.

 

Thank you so much for sharing your story'! Let's hold each other's hands through all the ups and downs until we beat this evil and get our lives back!

 

Love and hugs!

Lex

Thanks Lex for your kind words.  Well if I am strong I don't know it and certainly never felt that way.  All I knew was that I was determined not to stay on the poison, because I was never on it for depression in the first place, plus I got headaches when I was on it.   I felt like I was trapped and had no choice but to stay on it and taper and i most certainly never liked that choice!  I still don't!  If I want to get off it, then I just have to keep going.  I have come this far, so there is no going back.

 

Yes, it definitely requires a lot of things from us.  I would rather go through having a baby every year than do this!

 

You are a great encourager, thanks for that.  How are you doing today?

Bless you

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grandmaD

Good to see you here, GrandmaD!  I'm another turtle taperer, and also struggle with the length of time my taper is taking.  I started my latest taper towards the end of 2008, and it's now 2016, and I think I probably have at least another 3 years to go.  It seems ridiculous, but there's no other real choice.  Some years I reduced by a lot less than 1mg.  I have at times done some very long holds waiting to stabilise.  I've also been hoping that it will get easier as my dose gets lower, so that I can reduce a bit faster, but so far it hasn't happened.  All that's happened is that the mixture of symptoms has changed somewhat from time to time.  I just have to keep reminding myself that as long as my dose keeps going in the right direction - i.e. down - then eventually I will get down to zero - eventual success is more important than speed.

Hi Songbird,  Good to hear from you.  I have actually had a quick look at your journal, but not got around to writing there yet, but I will!  You are an amazing example to all us fellow turtles.  You are right, we have no other choice and that can really get to you a lot of the time.  It is not just the physical pain, but the mental torment as well.  Hey, it's so crazy isn't it, you think you might improve, but then you get symptoms you haven't had before and then some get better and others get worse!  Your words are very wise, we have to remind ourselves we are going in the right direction.  I have drawn myself a  picture of a mountain, and put myself up towards the top 1/4 of it, so I can see I have come a long way and not got far to go!  I wish you all the very best as you continue and hope you can get there quicker than it looks like being.  It is very disappointing though when you see how much you have come down in the year and work out you have another 4 years to go if it continues like that!  That applies to me also.

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grandmaD

Welcome to SA GrandmaD, I'm glad you finally found your way here. I also 'know' you from PP, I used to read threads there, but rarely posted, so you wouldn't know me. I've also wondered how you are doing now.

 

Thank you for documenting your history here, I'm sorry you've been through such a difficult time, trying to get off Aropax/Paxil. Its shocking how slowly some people need to taper in order to get off these poisons. I did a 2 month taper and put myself in protracted withdrawal and have been there ever since, but I think if I'd tapered properly I would have had to do it very slowly too.

 

This topic may be of interest to you:  The slowness of slow tapers - Surviving Antidepressants

 

It would be great if you would put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature. Doing this helps people understand your context, it appears below each of your posts. Here are instructions for how to do it:

 

http://survivinganti...your-signature/

 

Please, make yourself at home here and have a look around, we have a wonderful  Symptoms and self-care  section with lots of great ideas and information to make the tapering/withdrawal process slightly less painful.

 

Petunia.

Thank you Petunia for you lovely warm welcome.  It looks like an excellent site, with so much help and advice.  You could be here for years trying to read it all!  It is very refreshing to have people acknowledge how difficult it is, as those around us don't understand and the only place I have heard those words is here.  I am so sorry for you and everyone who has to go through this hell.  Thank you for your links, I will certainly have a look at them.  Now I have finished my history, I will work on my signature.

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grandmaD

Headaches

 

Year 1 av: 2.0  plus 3-5 migraines per drop

Year 2 av: 2.0  plus 3-5 migraines per drop

Year 3 av: 2.4  plus 1-6 migraines per drop

Year 4 av: 3.0 plus av 4 migraines per drop

Worst drop for headaches: 7.3mg @ 3.1; 4.8mg @ 3.5; 4.6mg @ 4.

Worst year for headaches:  Year 4 @ 3

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grandmaD

Head Pressure Av. p/w                                 Head Vibrations Av. p/w

 

Year 1 av:  4.9                                                 Year 1 av:  2.8

Year 2 av:  5.0                                                 Year 2 av:  3.4

Year 3 av:  3.2                                                 Year 3 av:  3.8

Year 4 av:  4.3                                                 Year 4 av:  3.6

Worst drops for head pressure:                       Worst drop for head vibes:

8.1mg @ 6.4av. (5% taper)                             5.7mg @ 4.9av. (5% taper)

and 5.7mg @ 5.7av. (5% taper)                      and 4.8mg @ 5.8av. (5% taper)

                                                                        4.6mg @ 4.8av (2.5% taper)

                                                                        4.2mg @ 4.7av (2.5% taper)  

                                                                        4.1mg @ 5.0 av (2.5% taper)             

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grandmaD

Sore Heads Av. p/w                                       Head Banging Traumatic Sensation Av. p/w

 

Av. for year 1:   4.5                                         Av. for year 1:     .7

Av. for year 2:   2.8                                         Av. for year 2:   1.9

Av. for year 3:   2.3                                         Av. for year 3:   2.0

Av. for year 4:  3.0                                          For year 4:  2.1

Worst drop for sore heads Av.                       Worst drop for head banging trauma: 

7mg @ 4.5av. (5% taper)                                5.3mg @ 3.4 (2.5% taper)

and 5.3mg @ 5.1av. (2.5% taper);

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grandmaD

Palpitations Av p/w                                                   Insomnia Av p/w

 

Av. for year 1:   1.4                                                     Av for year 1:    .7

Av. for year 2:   1.0                                                     Av for year 2:    .9

Av.  for year 3:  1.7                                                     Av for year 3:  1.1

Av. For year 4:  2.4                                                     Av. For year 4: 1.7

Worst drop for palpitations:                                        Worst drop for insomnia:

5.1mg @ 3.3 (2.5% slide)                                           5.1 (2.5% slide) @ 2.2

4.5mg @ 3.5 (2.5% taper)                                           4.5mg @ 2.5 (2.5% taper)

4.2mg @ 3.8 (2.5% taper)                                           4.2 @ 2.3 (2.5% taper)

4.1 @ 3.8 (2.5%)

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grandmaD

Indigestion av p/w                                                     Nausea av. p/w

 

Av for year 1:    .6                                                       Av for year 1:   .8

Av for year 2:    .3                                                       Av for year 2:  1.1

Av for year 3:  1.8                                                       Av for year 3:  1.7

Av for year 4:  1.6                                                       Av for year 4:    .1

Worst drop for indigestion:                                        Worst drop for nausea: 

4.9mg @ 4 (2.5% taper)                                              5.3mg (2.5% taper) @ 3.7

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grandmaD

Rapid Pulse (90 – 100+bpm)                        Anxiety

 

Year 1 av:  nil                                                  Year 1: 10% taper resulted in crash

Year 2 av:  nil                                                  Year 2 av:  Some                    

Year 3 av:  2.1                                                 Year 3 av:  2.0

Year 4 av:  2.7                                                 Year 4 av:  4.0

Worst drop:                                                     Worst drop:  5.1mg @ 4  (2.5% slide

4.6 @ 3.8 (holding)                                         4.6mg @ 4.8 (holding)

                                                                        4.2mg @ 5.7 (2.5%)

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grandmaD

Body Vibrations av. p/w                                           Breathlessness av. p/w

 

Year 1 av:   5.0                                                            Year 1 av:  2.5

Year 2 av:   5.3                                                            Year 2 av:  1.5

Year 3 av:   6.0                                                            Year 3 av:  2.4

Year 4 av:   6.5                                                            Year 4 av:  3.8

Worst drop:  5.7mg @ 5.9 (5% taper)                        Worst drops: 8.1mg @ 3.3 (5%)

4.8 @ 6 (2.5% taper)                                                   7mg @ 3.3 (5% taper)

4.6mg @ 6.6 (holding)                                                4.9mg @ 5

4.2 @ 7 (2.5%);

4.1 @ 7

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grandmaD

A few questions:

How do I find someone's journal quickly?

Does this site send you emails of when you have posted, so you can find them again?

Does this site do private emails and if so, how?

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grandmaD

I have found it increasingly difficult to cope with anxiety as it has gone up and up with each year of tapering.

 

I went to counselling each week for two 6 month periods, but it didn't help a year or 2 ago.

 

I do relaxation and breathing exercises which I can only believe help.  I do them 3 times a day every day and more often when I am worse.

 

I have found that I do not necessarily feel "anxious" but what happens is if I go somewhere out of my routine, or talk on the phone or visit someone too long (about an hour is my limit) and times like Christmas or special events, etc and also medical procedures, it gets worse.  Sometimes I think I have coped with the event, only to be up for 3+ hours with insomnia that night and even the next night.

 

I don't understand anxiety very well and find it very unpleasant.   Are these symptoms of anxiety?

1.  The vibrations in my body get very strong, hard and increase in intensity

2.  I feel like I am dizzy and I get shakey

3.  I get very impatient and frustrated

4.  I feel totally stressed out

 

I am presuming that it is chemically induced, is that right?

 

At present, I am struggling with my son's o/d in the New Year.  I had not spoken to him in 2 years because back then I tried desperately to warn him from taking drugs for epilepsy along with Citrapolam and I freaked out because they put him on something else for "Bi-polar".  I do not believe he needs any of these drugs.  However, his new wife said she would leave him if he didn't go on them!

 

2 years later (last Nov.) she left him anyway and so he o/d.  He was rescued by his younger brother and his 19year old son from his first relationship.  He now refuses to speak to them for 'saving him" and is still not talking to me.  I am quite happy not to talk to him, I couldn't cope with it.

 

The problem is that his action has ripple effects that has affected by relationship with my younger son, who now doesn't talk to me!  It has affected my grand-son who is not coping and now I have spoken to my grand-son's mother (my son's first wife) yesterday for an hour (WAY TOO LONG FOR ME TO COPE WITH) but she is struggling with memories from the past with him coming to the surface... and so on ...

 

As a result, the insomnia which I have anyway has RAMPED up.  For years and years now, it has taken me 2 hours to get to sleep and I wake every 2 hours and then when I wake between 2-4am I will be awake for 1 -3 hours on occasions.

 

The way I have been coping with no sleep, anxiety and stress is to take 2 migraine tablets which would knock me out initially.  This was my "treat" once a week.  Over the years, they have not been working the same and sometimes they don't work at all.  At best, I was still waking every 2 hours but at least i got back to sleep within half an hour and was happy with that.

 

Just recently, we bought them not as tablets but as 'caplets" and I swear they are not the same, despite saying the same ingredients on packet.  What is happening now too, is that the next day I have a hangover effect, feeling very lethargic and dopey (just like I felt for first 3.5 years of taper, like braindead.)  This has happened last 2 times, so not sure if that is what I have seen some people call a rebound effect?

 

I don't want to take anything addictive and everything I have looked up is.

 

I tried valerian and other natural sleep aids but they didn't work either.

 

I have thought about something like valium, just to take now and then, but frightened I might enjoy the benefits too much and ....

 

ANY SUGGESTIONS?????

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Happy2Heal

what is in the migraine tablets? do they have an anti histamine in them? I am wondering how it is that they make you sleepy. I thought migraine tablets had a pain reliever and sometimes caffeine, in them.

 

I am so sorry about all your family issues. very upsetting stuff.

 

I don't know if what you are describing is anxiety or something else.... it does sound similar to what happens to a lot of us, in regards to how much social interaction we can handle before we start to feel bad.

 

insomnia is so hard to deal with. I don't have any advice, sadly. I can only tell you that if it gets really bad for me, I will take a tiny tiny bit of klonopin (1/4 of a 0.5mg tablet, so that's what, 1.25mgs?) I am so sensitive to meds now, that even that tiny bit will knock me out for a good 6 hrs (I usually wake up every 20 mins to 2hrs so this is a good long sleep for me)

 

I hope others will have more ideas for you.

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Songbird

It doesn't sound like "standard" anxiety (if there is such a thing), but more like your nervous system is very sensitive, so that too much stimulation ramps up all the sympathetic nervous system responses.  By "chemically-induced" I assume you mean withdrawal-related.  It could be, but could also be a combination of that plus additional stressors.  The relaxation exercises sound great, and should be helping (I hope).  Have you read or listened to any of Claire Weekes's books?  They're great for learning to deal with anxiety.

 

It is a concern that your anxiety has become worse each year you have been tapering.  This suggests you have not been stabilising between drops.  Have you tried any long holds to see if your system might settle down with more time?

 

Is your insomnia just insomnia or anxiety-related insomnia? (In my experience they feel different).  What is the migraine tablet you use for sleep? It's possible the caplet formulation is slightly different even if the active ingredient is the same - if it is absorbed more slowly there could still be some left the next day making you feel drowsy.  What other natural sleep aids have you tried?

 

So sorry to hear about your family issues, it must be very upsetting.  It sounds like none of this is your fault, but there may be nothing much you can do - if they are adults, they will make their own decisions regardless.  You can't change other people, you can only change yourself.  Of course knowing this won't stop the upset feelings, but perhaps it might help a little to know that you're doing the best you can and that's really all you can do.  I'm thinking of positive self-talk, which I find helps with anxiety, stress and worry.  Also there is a mindfulness technique where you stand back in your mind and observe the emotions instead of being immersed in them.  I've found that this can sometimes give a few moments of peace which can be quite valuable.  What I'm saying is that you need to look after yourself, and that might mean giving yourself a bit of distance from the situation mentally.  I know that's super-hard when it's family, as family stuff is always so emotional and really important to us.

 

So there's my two cents worth.  I may have other suggestions depending on your answers.

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Petunia

Hi grandmaD,

I joined the new topic you started with your original intro/update thread, its one introduction topic per member. You can use this thread as your ongoing journal to track progress, write about symptoms, ask questions and communicate with the community, add to it whenever you want. Its a good idea to bookmark it or follow it, so its easy to find again.

 

Following other journal threads you are interested in is also a good way not to lose track of them, you will be sent an email whenever someone posts. Its a grey button at the top right of the page.

 

You can send someone a personal message by hovering over their name or clicking on it. You can also access personal messenger by clicking on the little open envelope icon in the top right. When you have received a message it will show up red.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your family troubles, that sounds very difficult and stressful, its no wonder you've been having problems sleeping.

 

 

I don't understand anxiety very well and find it very unpleasant.   Are these symptoms of anxiety?

1.  The vibrations in my body get very strong, hard and increase in intensity

2.  I feel like I am dizzy and I get shakey

3.  I get very impatient and frustrated

4.  I feel totally stressed out

 

I am presuming that it is chemically induced, is that right?

 

These are symptoms of anxiety and withdrawal and signs of a sensitized nervous system and also signs of stress. While tapering and going through withdrawal our nervous system can become very vulnerable to any increased stress, causing increased symptoms like those above.

 

Perhaps you could hold your taper for a few months until things settle down for you. Focus on self care, relaxation and stress relief. Here are some topics which may help:

 

Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

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caperjackie

Just checking in to say hi and I remember you well from PP grandmaD ........... hang in there!

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ladybug

I'm very sorry to hear about your son, Gran. :( It's no wonder you are having increased symptoms.

 

I wish I knew of something that would work for insomnia. I have this strange type of insomnia where I can't sleep the night before having to go into the office (I work mostly from home.) Sunday night I didn't even get 10min sleep and had to go into the work the next day. Unfortunately I can't take anything but my usual small dose of Melatonin which I've been taking nightly for years. Have you ever tried it? Valerian makes me very depressed the next day so that's not an option either. These days I'm even scared of herbal teas as you never know how you will react to something in WD. If it's any consolation my mother's sleep issues sound similar to yours and she's never been on a med! When she is unable to go to back to sleep she takes a small amount of Magnesium which she says helps. I can't remember if you've ever tried Magnesium?

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grandmaD

what is in the migraine tablets? 

They have 450mg codeine (pain relief) and 5mg doxylamine succinate (calmative).  I take 2 tablets.

 

I am so sorry about all your family issues. very upsetting stuff.

Yes, it is, thanks for your kind words.

I don't know if what you are describing is anxiety or something else.... it does sound similar to what happens to a lot of us, in regards to how much social interaction we can handle before we start to feel bad.

I have seen Dr. this morning and he says it is all anxiety - the breathlessness, the palpitations, the stomach issues, the insomnia, the pain in my abdomen

insomnia is so hard to deal with. I don't have any advice, sadly. I can only tell you that if it gets really bad for me, I will take a tiny tiny bit of klonopin (1/4 of a 0.5mg tablet, so that's what, 1.25mgs?) I am so sensitive to meds now, that even that tiny bit will knock me out for a good 6 hrs (I usually wake up every 20 mins to 2hrs so this is a good long sleep for me)

Interesting comment about being sensitive now to meds.  I wonder if I tried just 1 of the above tablets and then when I wake up after the usual 2 hours take another one then, instead of both at once.

I hope others will have more ideas for you.

Thank you for your comments, nice to meet you and I really love your cat!  He looks like a cat I had when I was 9 until I was 21!

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ladybug

Hmm, codeine is an opiate so it's possible you have become tolerant to your regular dose after all these years. Best to take it sparingly as that's just another WD you'll have to go through. Here in the US you can get doxylamine capsules over the counter. Do they have that there as well? Seems like a better option for sleep if it works.

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grandmaD

It doesn't sound like "standard" anxiety (if there is such a thing), but more like your nervous system is very sensitive, so that too much stimulation ramps up all the sympathetic nervous system responses.  By "chemically-induced" I assume you mean withdrawal-related.  It could be, but could also be a combination of that plus additional stressors.  The relaxation exercises sound great, and should be helping (I hope).  Have you read or listened to any of Claire Weekes's books?  They're great for learning to deal with anxiety.

I mentioned above that dr says it is anxiety.  I am assuming it is withdrawal/chemical related.  I do think you have a point about the nervous system being very sensitive as sometimes if I almost trip, I get a flush of nerves or something across my faith and walking under bridges and a car goes across making a huge noise makes me jump, etc.  I haven't read her books, but have read several books from the local library.  It is quite obvious to me now, that added stressors accentuate it.

 

It is a concern that your anxiety has become worse each year you have been tapering.  This suggests you have not been stabilising between drops.  Have you tried any long holds to see if your system might settle down with more time?

Aahhghhhh!! Now that's not what i want to hear!  It's probably what I have even thought myself, because the anxiety did go down to mild after a 6 month hold.  I coped fairly well for the next 2 drops (except insomnia not good) and because of son's o/d has made it worse. 

Is your insomnia just insomnia or anxiety-related insomnia? (In my experience they feel different).  What is the migraine tablet you use for sleep? It's possible the caplet formulation is slightly different even if the active ingredient is the same - if it is absorbed more slowly there could still be some left the next day making you feel drowsy.  What other natural sleep aids have you tried?

I presume the insomnia is related to the anxiety, especially when I can feel my heart jumping around on the bed when I lie on my left side.  Other times I think I'm okay and still don't sleep.  I can feel very, very tired, heavy eyes and go to bed and do my exercises and the minute I roll over to go to sleep, everything in me seems to jump up, heart starts racing and so on.  It now gets that I am afraid of this happening and so perhaps I am even bringing it on myself because of my fear.

So sorry to hear about your family issues, it must be very upsetting.  It sounds like none of this is your fault, but there may be nothing much you can do - if they are adults, they will make their own decisions regardless.  You can't change other people, you can only change yourself.  Of course knowing this won't stop the upset feelings, but perhaps it might help a little to know that you're doing the best you can and that's really all you can do.  I'm thinking of positive self-talk, which I find helps with anxiety, stress and worry.  Also there is a mindfulness technique where you stand back in your mind and observe the emotions instead of being immersed in them.  I've found that this can sometimes give a few moments of peace which can be quite valuable.  What I'm saying is that you need to look after yourself, and that might mean giving yourself a bit of distance from the situation mentally.  I know that's super-hard when it's family, as family stuff is always so emotional and really important to us.

Yes, I totally agree, especially when he has spoken to me in 2 years and then sends me an sms in the middle of the night saying he wants to die.  That is selfish of him.  I just found out this morning they have found him and he is back in hospital for 24 hours observation.  I know I have to look after myself and that is what I am aiming for.  I have rung the hospital to speak to him and he hasn't rang back.  it is coming to the point where I will have to let him go and leave him to himself.  I still have those emotions to deal with though, as you say.  I try to walk each day (and had a lovely walk around the local river after the drs.) and to sit on the front verandah and just enjoy a cuppa.

 

 

So there's my two cents worth.  I may have other suggestions depending on your answers.

Thanks Songbird for your input, all the replies are so valuable as you have all been through it too.  The dr. talked about valium but I told him my reluctance and he said Serapax is a bit better (of two evils I gather).  It is addictive and I said I would just take 1/4 of a tablet, so I'll see how I go with that, just to get me through this business with my son.

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grandmaD

Thanks Petunia for the help and guidance.  I understand another hold is what I need to do, but I am so frustrated with how long this is already taking.  I have only just made another drop, so i think I will see how this first week goes and the outcome with son because if he doesn't return my call, then I am letting it go and just that will help enormously I believe.  I just had the worst week for a long long time, especially since week 8 of my drops is usually getting good.  In fact, many of my usual w/d symptoms were pretty good, like the head issues, it was just the anxiety related ones that ramped up.  If I have another crap week like that, I will have to seriously consider it.

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grandmaD

Just checking in to say hi and I remember you well from PP grandmaD ........... hang in there!

Oh my goodness!  YES, I remember you well, you were a lot of help back there!  I would have thought you were long gone by now!  Thanks for your kind words!

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grandmaD

I'm very sorry to hear about your son, Gran. :( It's no wonder you are having increased symptoms.

Thanks babygirl !

I wish I knew of something that would work for insomnia. I have this strange type of insomnia where I can't sleep the night before having to go into the office (I work mostly from home.) Sunday night I didn't even get 10min sleep and had to go into the work the next day.

I sometimes have that, but more often it is the night AFTER things happening.

Unfortunately I can't take anything but my usual small dose of Melatonin which I've been taking nightly for years. Have you ever tried it?

Can't take it because I already have all the side effects it mentions, like migraines, restlessness, anxiety, abdominal pain, indigestion, chest pain, gastro-oesophagus reflux, palpitations, waking early, restless leg syndrome, pins and needles in legs, muscle spasms.

Valerian makes me very depressed the next day so that's not an option either.

Neither Valerian or Valerian Forte helped or the other herbal sleep aids at Chemist

These days I'm even scared of herbal teas as you never know how you will react to something in WD.

I have tried lemon balm since I have it growing in garden and I thought it did help, but I also thought it was making my stomach issues much worse, so I stopped it but i would be glad to try it again.  Anyone else tried it?

If it's any consolation my mother's sleep issues sound similar to yours and she's never been on a med! When she is unable to go to back to sleep she takes a small amount of Magnesium which she says helps. I can't remember if you've ever tried Magnesium?

Tried 1/2 magnesium and had hangover effect with a bad pressure head and dull h/a.  I then tried crushing it in 2L water and supping it (like this site suggested) throughout the day but I think it also caused problems to get worse with stomach...

The dr. was going to prescribe Catapress (Clonidine Hydrochoride) which is Blood Pressure tablet and muscle relaxant but I can't take that because of the erratic heartbeat thing I have and nerve damage.

He also want to give me Endep to me sleep but I already knew that was another a/d and refused.

Chemist suggested trying a homeopathetic drops - now I can't remember it's name, but I think homeopathetic stuff is crap but now I am desperate- ahh, there it is, Rescue remedy its called.  Anyone tried that???

Has anyone tried an anti-histamine that causes drowsiness? 

It just seems to me that anything that helps with sleep (and works) is addictive.

I just want something safe I can take, just once a week so I can get a good night's sleep.

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grandmaD

Hmm, codeine is an opiate so it's possible you have become tolerant to your regular dose after all these years. Best to take it sparingly as that's just another WD you'll have to go through. Here in the US you can get doxylamine capsules over the counter. Do they have that there as well? Seems like a better option for sleep if it works.

Yes, I discovered you can get just the doxy and have tried them.  I only need to take 1/4 of one of those and they relax me enough to get to sleep within an hour and though I still wake every 2 hours, I can get back to sleep withing a short time.  I don't get a hangover effect next day, but the anxiety seems to ramp up even worse next day, so that put me off them and not tried one of those in a while along with the fact they too are addictive.

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grandmaD

WORST DROPS FOR:

 

8.6mg – tired & slow;

8.1mg -  head pressure (daily/permanent); breathlessness; tired & slow; good days

7.3mg – tired & slow; headaches

7.0mg – sore heads (bad); breathlessness;

6.2mg – head pressure (daily/permanent)

5.9mg – body vibrations (hi)

5.7mg – head vibrations; head pressure (daily/permanent)

5.3mg – sore heads (severe); nausea; head banging sensation;

5.1mg – insomnia; palpitations; anxiety/panic;

4.9mg – tight chest; breathlessness; bad days; rapid pulse; indigestion; constipation

4.8mg – headaches (every 2nd day); vibrations; head vibrations

4.6mg – vibrations (hi, strong & hard); head pressure; headaches (permanent/daily);

breathlessness; head vibrations; head banging; no. of good days pw (1); no of  

              bad days pw; anxiety & panic; rapid pulse (100’s & 90’s); tight chest;

4.5mg – palpitations; vibrations (hi, strong & hard); insomnia

4.3mg – breathlessness;

4.2mg – palpitations; vibrations (hi, strong/hard); anxiety; insomnia; head pressure

4.1mg – palpitations; tired and slow; head vibes; vibrations; constipation

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Songbird

Doxylamine is a sedating anti-histamine.  I haven't tried it, but I think it is available here as Dozile.  I have tried Rescue Remedy a few times, as other people have reported success with it, but it has never done anything noticeable for me.  Lemon balm is a calming herb, so that may be worth a try.   Weleda has a product called relaxing drops, which contains a mixture of relaxing herbs.  Have you tried passionflower?  That's another good one.  You said you can't take melatonin - did you try it and have bad effects?  It often works best at very tiny doses, 1mg or less.

 

It sounds like you have bedtime anxiety, which I've had during particularly bad patches of w/d.  You feel tired and even a bit sleepy, but the moment you have to lie down and go to sleep, the anxiety starts.  I found that it helped to tell myself each night, that whatever happened that night, I could handle it.  That took away a lot of the fear generated by the "what if I can't sleep" kind of thinking. 

 

I also found that it helps to trick your mind by not trying to go to sleep.  For example, read a book for a while, then if you start feeling drowsy, just tell yourself you'll put the book down for a minute and have a little rest.  You are just resting, not trying to sleep.  This takes away the pressure of having to go to sleep.  This has worked well for me, but it does mean I still sleep with a bedside lamp on every night! 

 

During my crash, when I was having huge sleeping problems, I used a sleep CD, which helped enormously.  The one I used was "Achieving Perfect Sleep" by Dr. Hilary Jones, but there are others available.  I haven't used it since then, as now my mind associates it with the crash period, so it brings back bad memories, but it did work well at the time.

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grandmaD

It doesn't sound like "standard" anxiety (if there is such a thing), but more like your nervous system is very sensitive, so that too much stimulation ramps up all the sympathetic nervous system responses. 

I think I agree with your comment since I never suffered anxiety before but my nervous system is certainly "on edge" and sensitive and I believe it is due to w/d and the chemicals in the drug.

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grandmaD
 

OOpps delted the lot!  Songbird, how do you stand back and obsrerve your emotions????

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grandmaD

Doxylamine is a sedating anti-histamine.  I haven't tried it, but I think it is available here as Dozile. 

I found out side effects of it are dizzy, tight chest, difficulty breathing, fast heartbeat, palpitations and I have these all the time, anyway, so that has scared me off it for now.

 

You said you can't take melatonin - did you try it and have bad effects?  It often works best at very tiny doses, 1mg or less.

Not tried it, but told dr. I have already many of its side effects already and he said "best to leave it alone."

It sounds like you have bedtime anxiety, which I've had during particularly bad patches of w/d.  You feel tired and even a bit sleepy, but the moment you have to lie down and go to sleep, the anxiety starts.  I found that it helped to tell myself each night, that whatever happened that night, I could handle it.  That took away a lot of the fear generated by the "what if I can't sleep" kind of thinking. 

Yes, I sometimes remember to tell myself it doesn't matter if I don't sleep, and that I am resting and that is good!

I also found that it helps to trick your mind by not trying to go to sleep.  For example, read a book for a while, then if you start feeling drowsy, just tell yourself you'll put the book down for a minute and have a little rest.  You are just resting, not trying to sleep.  This takes away the pressure of having to go to sleep.  This has worked well for me, but it does mean I still sleep with a bedside lamp on every night! 

Good one!  great idea!  I tried listening to music one night but lay there wondering what the next song would be, and the next one and the next one...for ages!

During my crash, when I was having huge sleeping problems, I used a sleep CD, which helped enormously.  The one I used was "Achieving Perfect Sleep" by Dr. Hilary Jones, but there are others available.  I haven't used it since then, as now my mind associates it with the crash period, so it brings back bad memories, but it did work well at the time.

Thanks for the help Songbird.  What is the cd, is it music or talking or what?

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grandmaD

Update on this week which has been highly stressful, emotional and traumatic with son threatening to suicide again.  I wasn't coping and as it turned out had a dr. appointment anyway as a follow up for the latest procedures and he asked how I was so I told him and although he had refused to give me valium before, he suggested it.  I told him I had been on it after my divoorce and when I went off it, i crashedd and wanted to go back on it but the dr. back then refused.  So this dr. said, "we won't go there then." 

 

I said I just wanted something to help me relax enough to get to sleep and to get through this rough period with son.  So he said he would give me Serapax but the bottle says it is called Alepam 15 and is called Oxazepam also so do you know if that is same as Serapax?

 

Chemist said to only take it for 3 nighits.  Anyway, from what I've read on this site about taking strong stuff (i understand this is a sleeping pill/benzo?) to start small, so I just took 1/4.  It helped me get to sleep in an hour or so but less than the normal 2 hours.  I still woke every 2 hours but I was able to get back to sleep.  I have woken at 5am both days and not been able to get back to sleep, but feel better that  at least I get back to sleep after the 2 hour wake ups.  No h/a or hangover effect next day.

 

I'm not sure if it is helping the following day, but yesterday I felt quite calm, with very mild anxiety symptoms WHICH WAS LOVELY.  today, however, when I woke the palpitations started up and then the breathlessness and I felt moderate stress and pain in the stomach/ribs etc.

 

What other thing I did early yesterday morning was take an anti-histamine (non drowsy) and I didn't early this morning, so I took one later in the morning and after lunch I felt calmer agaiin.

 

SO.. does anyone know if that could affect anxiety???  Oh boy, all these things to think about.  I am started to feel embarrassed like I am a junkie, trying these things now to see what works and so on!

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grandmaD

WORST YEAR FOR:

Palpitations – Yr 4

Insomnia – Yr 4

Indigestion – Yr 3

Tired and slow – Yr 1

Head banging – Yr 4

Nausea – Yr 3

Good days – Yr 4

Rapid Pulse - Yr 4

Bad days – Yr 4

Anxiety (doubled ) – Yr 4

Vibrations – Yr 4

Head vibes – Year 3

Head Pressure – Years 1 & 2

Headaches – Yr 4

Breathlessness – Yr 4

Tight chest – Yr 3

Sore heads – Yr 1

Tingling – Yrs 1 to 4

Leg ache – Yrs 1 to 4

Ear ringing – Yrs 1-4

Buzzy head – Yrs 1-4

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Songbird

Songbird, how do you stand back and obsrerve your emotions????

 

It is a mindfulness technique - you become the observer in your mind. Basically you just watch what is going on. It does take some practice to get the hang of it.  I wouldn't say I'm that great at it yet, but it does seem to get easier the more you practice it.  You can kind of pretend you are a scientist studying a phenomenon objectively, just making observations.

 

Not tried it, but told dr. I have already many of its side effects already and he said "best to leave it alone

 

It probably wouldn't do any harm to try a very tiny dose.  Lots of things have similar side effects, it doesn't mean all of them will give you those side effects.  You could get some 1mg tablets and break into quarters (0.25mg).  Just an idea anyway.  It would be a better thing to be using for sleep than benzos or anti-histamines.

 

What is the cd, is it music or talking or what?

 

It is talking, with background music.  It's almost like a hypnosis session.  It helped me sleep when I hadn't slept in a week.

 

I said I just wanted something to help me relax enough to get to sleep and to get through this rough period with son.  So he said he would give me Serapax but the bottle says it is called Alepam 15 and is called Oxazepam also so do you know if that is same as Serapax?

 

Chemist said to only take it for 3 nighits.  Anyway, from what I've read on this site about taking strong stuff (i understand this is a sleeping pill/benzo?)

Serepax is oxazepam, and it is a benzo, so use with caution.  It's good that you are using the smallest effective dose, but be aware that with longer term use tolerance could develop and higher doses may be needed to get the same effect.

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grandmaD

Thanks Songbird for your responses.  I will keep it mind, especially the melatonin one.

 

I have done my 3 nights on the serapax and funnily enough, I slept the same last night, as if I had taken one - 2 hours then wake then 3 hours then wake and then 2 hours and wake. 

 

I was going to just use it once a week like I had been doing with the other meds.  Do you think that is safe enough, or not?

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grandmaD

2014  6 MONTH HOLD

 

Head Pressure  -  Bad. No change.  Improved next drop.

Sore heads  -  Worse, worse and worse after 24 weeks.  Improved next drop.

HeadachesWorse, worse and worse after 24 weeks.  Improved next drop

Anxiety – Overall worse.  Improved next drop

Head vibrations – Improved after 14/15 weeks.  Improved next drop

Indigestion – overall improvement and improved next 2 drops then got worse again

Nausea – Improved and improved next drop

 

Palpitations – Improved after 12 weeks.  Worse next drop

Head banging sensation – Improved after 16 weeks.  Worse next drop

Rapid Pulse – Improved after 16 weeks.  Worse next drop

Breathlessness – Heaps worse overall.  Improved next drop

 

Improvements                                    Same                                       Worse

Head pressure                                     Head pressure                         Sore heads

Head vibrations                                                                                   Headaches

Indigestion                                                                                          Anxiety

Nausea                                                                                                Breathlessness

Palpitations

Head banging

Rapid Pulse

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grandmaD

..  Lemon balm is a calming herb, so that may be worth a try.   Weleda has a product called relaxing drops, which contains a mixture of relaxing herbs.  Have you tried passionflower?  That's another good one.

I tried sipping lemon balm all day yesterday and when I woke through the night.  I had a fairly good day, anxiety wise, feeling calmer.  It still took the 2 hour to get to sleep and woke after 2 hours and then 3 and then 2 hours as usual, I didn't have anxiety and I could feel 2 or 3 times the palpitations "trying" to come back, but I told them to "go away".  Sometimes that works, sometimes not!

 

When I woke up the anxiety was definitely back, but mild to moderate.  Unfortunately the neighbour's dogs were chasing our other neighbour's sheep for the upteenth time and this meant a call to the ranger and to the farmer and sent my anxiety hi.

 

I will keep up with the lemon balm just for another day and see how I go because I recall that in the past it upset my guts and already i have pain/very sore across my middle, esp. under the sternum area.  It is so hard, because of other things, you never know if it is food or what.  Anyway, that's my next post ...

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grandmaD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It probably wouldn't do any harm to try a very tiny dose.  Lots of things have similar side effects, it doesn't mean all of them will give you those side effects.  You could get some 1mg tablets and break into quarters (0.25mg).  Just an idea anyway.  It would be a better thing to be using for sleep than benzos or anti-histamines.

 

 

 

.

 

 

Serepax is oxazepam, and it is a benzo, so use with caution.  It's good that you are using the smallest effective dose, but be aware that with longer term use tolerance could develop and higher doses may be needed to get the same effect.

 

Thanks for that.  I am still thinking about the melatonin, but not at present, due to the issues with my son and it  looks like we might be taking a trip up to see him for a couple of days.  All that is causing huge stress, but I am better than I was last week when he was threatening to o/d again. 

 

I hear what you said before about him being an adult, etc.  I would like nothing better than to ignore him like he as done for me for 2 years, not to be nasty, but so I can relax.  However I have added pressures with his son, who is now 19 and struggling and not coping and wants us to go up there with him.  I declined the first time, but think we will go this time, if at least to put it to him that we have to resolve past issues and have a relationship and if he is not agreeable, then I am out of it for good and he is on his own. 

 

At the best, he can talk and we can work things out, but at the worst he can tell me to "f" off.  In the meantime, I have no expectations, having been let down before and I am treating it like a holiday.  If things don't work out, there is a caravan park nearby and we will go there and have some "time out" and might even do that even if things do work out in the middle of best and worst!  So if I'm not around next week, that's why.

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