Lakelander82: Sertraline general query and tapering info

[scallywag]

Hope the 5% reduction does the trick for you!

[Lakelander82]

5% taper didn't feel too bad - feel a bit "different" for 4-5 days then system seems to recover and I'm back to normal. Hard one to call whether it's worth riding those days out each month for a bigger cut or reducing to a 2.5% so you don't even experience those few days. A 2.5% cut each week might work which would equate with 10% over a month. Decisions, Decisions Decisions....

[scallywag]

What you're considering, 2.5% reductions weekly, is similar to how brassmonkey has tapered Paxil, the "brassmonkey slide." You can read what he's written about it in this post in his intro topic. Essentially he divides his monthly reduction in 4, makes 4 weekly decreases and holds for 3 weeks after the last one. It's a 6 week cycle.

[Lakelander82]

I'm amazed at how I alternate between moods. Last night I was fairly depressed, had a good cry to relieve it and felt bit better. This morning and even now I'm more on edge, anxious etc but not depressed - this must be all down to nervous system instability. Sometimes it's a pleasure just to hold and keep holding at a dose until you settle down and then the inevitable apprehension sets in before the you do the next cut, almost to the point where you're reluctant to do the cut!

[AliG]

L.L. It's all part of withdrawal. I found that when I made up my mind this was going to be difficult and long that something " shifted" and the pressure was off and I just had to keep going . There was no other alternative that I entertained.     

 

There were low times - many , but you just have to keep going !

Sometimes a good cry helps .

Ali

[Lakelander82]

How do you guys stop yourselves being pessimistic about the tapering process and the rationale behind it? I find myself questioning whether I'm doing the right thing after I get flashes of my old depressed/anxious self. These flashes could be getting irked/irritated at small things or plain old mood dives in the evening time. I always hear lots of talk about the nervous system instability that antidepressant withdrawal produces and then I always think to myself that it was precisely this reason why I was put on Antidepressants in the first place - my nervous system was up the left and round the bend!

 

Don't get me wrong, I do have good periods when I think I'm on the right track but it's the bad periods that lead to my apprehension. If you were a dysfunctional anxious/depressed mess prior to taking the drugs, then taking the drugs made you feel good again, then a slow, slow taper will turn you back into a superfunctioning, happy person? How can you return to a state that wasn't there in the first place?

Please note, I only experienced my first bout of Depression/Anxiety when I was 23/24 so it's not a lifetime thing for me.

[ChessieCat]

Was you first bout of depression/anxiety caused by an external factor, a life stressor?  Even if it wasn't you can still learn non-drug techniques for coping.  Many people who have never been on ADs get periods in their life when they suffer from anxiety and/or depression.  There are many things that can cause this.  Unfortunately for me, and many members here, we were offered and accepted the drugs.  If, instead, we had been taught ways of coping with and given support whilst getting through our life stressors we most likely would have felt improvement within a reasonable period of time, instead of being numbed.

 

You might find these interesting and informative:

 

Video:  Simple Truths About Psychiatry - Series of 10 by Dr Peter Breggin

 

Video:  Irving Kirsch:  Emperor's New Drugs:  Antidepressants and the Placebo Effect (1 hour 20 minutes)

 

Also:  See my previous post with links.

[Lakelander82]

I hear what you are saying Chessie. It was every day stressors that first triggered off my depression/Anxiety ie work, Moving to a different country for a period etc. I've a led a pretty charmed life some would say, I've had no major traumas whatsoever, no one in my immediate family has died yet, no abuse etc. My mother did get lung Cancer 5 years ago which was stressful but she had a lobectomy and made a full recovery. It was just everyday stuff that got to me and social anxiety was always an issue esp this last 6 years. The social anxiety got to the point where I couldn't even concentrate on what a person was saying because I was that away in my head so to speak and more concerned with what they thought about me. I could barely walk into a shop at one stage. This has lessened considerably (almost to the point of not being present anymore) but is the main reason I'm on these meds in the first place.

Been single over a year now and getting down about it. No problem with my looks, been with a good few girls throughout my life but severely lacking confidence and drive to persue any relationship nowadays. Nerves and apprehension prevent me from going on dates now.

I wish I could return to when I was 18 and at the peak of my powers, you could have thrown ricks at me I was that laid back. Nothing stressed me, funny how you change with time.

[Lakelander82]

I have learned my lesson with drink now, giving it up for life now. Was never a consistent drinker by any means but every now and again (every 2-3 months) I'd have a night on the tiles where I'd consume a large amount, in other words a binge. Last night I had an absolute skinful and I suffered today because of it. Felt very panicky and that I was losing the plot. Lesson learned, abstaining for the rest of my now because it does nothing for me anymore, only leave me feeling like shite for days afterwards. It very much is a CNS depressant. I don't know how anybody drinks day in day out.

[Lakelander82]

Ok so I'm having "dead head" syndrome again for a couple of hours upon rising from bed. By this I mean depressed, lethargic, inability to concentrate or even hold on to thoughts long enough, unwillingness to talk to those around me, frozen in a completely stationary, unproductive state - basically just a brain that doesn't work. I haven't experienced this for 4 months and had thought my slow taper had taken care of this. Again I'm left wondering about the variables involved - was this caused by the change of drug branding or was it the big drinking session last Thurs night which led to the panic on Friday morning and thus subsequent CNS instability. It's thinking about the variables that drives me nuts at times.

[scallywag]

The waves and windows of withdrawal drive those of us with analytical minds to distraction; we're almost trapped by our cause-and-effect thinking.  Have a look at anything that might have changed -- start or stop of supplements, change of brand of medication or supplements, start/stop/change in caffeine, sugar, exercise. If you can't identify anything, I hope you can let go of the search and can just chalk it up to CNS healing & recovery.

[Lakelander82]

I find that I cry 3-4 times a day now, everyday. There's nothing particularly bothering me or saddening me, it just seems to be purely a physiological thing. Wondering if it's all my repressed emotions coming out now I'm tapering the drug. I have intermittent gaps of hours where I feel good, then mood begins to dip, in which case I shed a few tears and feel better for a number of hours then mood dips again and I tear up again and so fourth. It's not massive crying spells by any means, just a few wee tears that spontaneously flow. Where I come from, it's not the done thing for a man to cry but I find if I don't, emotions just fester on the surface and it only makes things worse. It's like a release valve for me.

[Lakelander82]

I've hit a wall with my taper. Slept 8 hours last night (which is probably below my average) but feeling tired and weak during the day, going to go for a nap now. Don't know if naps during the day are a good thing or not. Nervous system is in flux at the minute, I suppose all I can do is hold and hold, it's been less than a week from my last cut after all.

[bubble]

Our brains are using a lot of energy to regrow and rewire all the connections. So there is really nothing bad to help them with additional rest when they ask for it. On the contrary

[Lakelander82]

3-4 times a day now, a sudden sadness comes over me followed by tearfulness and then a period of relative stability and happiness until the next bout of intermittent sadness. Is this the quintessential definition of the Waves and Windows pattern of recovery? It's annoying more than anything else and kind of disheartening that I will experience this until the end of the taper and most likely after my last dose.

[scallywag]

Yup, that's waves and windows. It's difficult to say if this pattern will continue exactly the same way until the end of your taper.  Some hope: some people find that their windows get longer, the waves shorter and the symptoms less intense.

[Lakelander82]

It's funny because the only weapon I have in my arsenal to end the temporary wave is to cry! Crying stops it dead in it's tracks until the next one. If I don't cry, it just festers and festers.

[Lakelander82]

My hypersomnia is becoming worse at present. Usually because of my back aches and pains and general restlessness in bed at night , I don't fall asleep to late (3/4am). I literally sleep solid then to 12 noon, I can't open my eyes until then! I could then nap for an hour in the evening time and could wake from this nap not in panic, just with a profound sense of uneasiness as well as a pounding heart.

 

Apart from the daily spells of weeping, I do find that when I'm out and about I do feel odd. Even in the house at night time, I experience this oddness, as if something's missing or there's no comfort in the world. It's extremely hard to articulate in words. When in shops, I tend to forget a few of things I went in for and get this strange wave of semi panic that goes through my body when I think I've forgotten my wallet or card to pay for the items I've put in the basket!

[scallywag]

Lakelander it's tough when things don't improve as fast as we'd like.  You're about half-way into a 4-week hold.  You could consider holding for longer at 32.9 mg. Holding for longer is almost always a good option. See if your symptoms settle down with more time at the same dose, 6 or 8 weeks rather than 4.

[Lakelander82]

Thanks Scally it's all I can do. Muscle tension in back and shoulders flare up most days now and I'm as crabit as hell, things like car horns, doors closing just go straight through me. I get this thing as well that if I concentrate too intently, try to remember a small detail or generally try too hard to solve something, I get stressed and just give up. It seems "thinking too hard" just stresses me.

 

When (if) I get to 25mg, I will view this as some sort of milestone because it's 50% of my starting dose, but at the rate I'm going it's a good bit off yet.

[Lakelander82]

Experienced a wave of panic and impending doom today when my car gave trouble on a main road and had to pull into the hard shoulder before it eventually struggled to a garage. When a flash of panic happens like this I've also a tendency to think I'm reverting back to my old anxious self instead of putting it down to the withdrawal. I only cut on Monday past and it was my usual 5% - it's all I can handle. Holding down a job at the minute while I go through this would be impossible, because if any mishap or controversy happened, especially during my first week after a cut, I'd lose the plot. It's the first week or so after a cut I'm at my most fragile, after that I'm stabilised to a large degree and things won't rattle me. That intial period after a cut is tough for me though, I can handle very little during that period, anybody else get this?

[Lakelander82]

Explosive rage reared its head the day after an argument with my mother. I just couldn't listen to her nag and nag and nag and ended up firing the tv remote against the wall and booting the kitchen table. I knew I was on edge all day and just wanted peace and quiet but she kept whining about everything under the sun and eventually I just erupted. I can barely compose myself afterwards or maintain any sort of concentration. It really is scary at times and all that after a tiny 5% cut and a hold of 5 weeks at the last cut.

[Lakelander82]

Today, something as innocuous as changing the container I dissolve my tablet in has comletely thrown off my accuracy. Without fail I always use a disused Coffee jar to dissolve my 50mg Sertraline tablet but because I was in a rush organising things before I go over to England for the weekend, I used a small drinking glass instead thinking it was no big deal. The drinking glass was taller and slimmer than my coffee jar. On my current dose of 31.26 mg I always have 18mls worth of liquid left in the coffee jar (50mg/50ml) but today I had only 15 mls left which makes me think I took more that I should have - It even tasted stronger. I'm left thinking what the hell difference does changing the container you use make? It shouldn't have any discernable affect. What difference does one messed up day make to your taper? Completely anxious and disheartened about the whole thing, I don't think I'll ever be right.

[scallywag]

It depends on how sensitive you are to the medication. Some people have a strong reaction and it takes many days, if not weeks, to settle. Others can tolerate an occasional change as if nothing happened.  I hope you're in the second group.

[Lakelander82]

I literally don't know how changing the container makes any difference when your syringe technique is exactly the same. When you make a mistake like that the automatic reaction is pure despondency and an anxiety that you've messed things up for yourself. I'm becoming quickly disenfranchised with this whole tapering thing,

[Lakelander82]

If I was to give a description of what withdrawal or an over active nervous system is like, you basically experience everything as a threat. Every small stimulus is experienced as aversion, anything new or out of the blue causes an instantaneous recoil. Jumpinness and a nervous apprehension to everything and anything is par for the course while your nervous system is still in flux. Thoughts (or attitude) have nothing to do with it, a thought doesn't cause you to instantly jump at a sound or stimulus, it's purely a instantaneous physiological response.

[AliG]

L.L.  This sounds correct and many have described it in a similar manner.

[Lakelander82]

I think I just have to accept that I have weak/agitated nerves and will do for the rest of my life. It's the reason I was put on the Drugs in the first place and tapering slowly will not change that fact. Every morning I wake up now I'm a nervous wreck, my muscles shiver and the thought of going into a public place with people is enough to send my heart racing. Why are we perpetuating this myth that all our woes are drug related??

[Lakelander82]

It's 18 days since my last cut and still my symptoms have not abated. My heart is beating hard in my chest, I feel out of breath doing stuff (even though I'm physically very fit) and just have a general feeling of worry/panic/doom and gloom the whole time. Irritable as hell as well and don't want to be around people. I want to believe it's withdrawal with every fibre of my being but common sense tells me it's just my original anxiety rearing it's head as I go down the doses. That's what anxiety does to you it makes you apprehensive and unsure about everything.

I'm aware I'm a pain in the arse here but I'm not going to be reticent for the hell of it.

[Altostrata]

Are you sure you are mixing your liquid with a consistent method? How are you measuring the water?

 

Perhaps you should reverse the last decrease and go back to 32.90mg.

 

If this reduces your symptoms, you know it's withdrawal. You might hold at that dosage for a good while, until your nervous system settles down and yu are more confident about dosage reductions.

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/
 

[Lakelander82]

Are you sure you are mixing your liquid with a consistent method? How are you measuring the water?

 

Perhaps you should reverse the last decrease and go back to 32.90mg.

 

If this reduces your symptoms, you know it's withdrawal. You might hold at that dosage for a good while, until your nervous system settles down and yu are more confident about dosage reductions.

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, seehttp://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

I'm measuring my water with my syringe as usual - I measure precisely 50mls into a jar, break the 50mg tablet in two and put it into the water. After it is broken up fully, I swirl it around well and tilt the glass jar at 45 degrees and withdraw 31.26mls via the syringe. I have to tilt the glass because if the jar is resting straight on the bench, 50mls isn't deep enough to get the syringe in and withdraw my dose.

 

Getting off this stuff is like my own personal Everest, at times you think you're not even at base camp. As you can see, my tapering is slow, very slow and yet I'm still running into problems. Your nervous system has a mind of its own, it will do what its wants to do, it is completely independent of attitude or beliefs. I may consider moving to Prozac to taper, but I'm aware that has risks.

[Lakelander82]

No doubt there's huge difficulties getting off Antipsychotics and Benzos, but all I can say is that trying to taper this Sertraline crap is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. I wish everybody on here the strength to keep on battering away and to reach a successful conclusion.

 

Today I went for a short 3 mile run, was no more arsed than the man on the moon going to do it but decided I'd force myself out anyway. Felt jittery and shivery all day long along with constant spells of weeping. Nervous system on a knife edge as regards sounds and what not. Felt a bit better when I came back from the run - dunno if medium intensity cardio is necessarily good for withdrawal or it ramps up your system.

Sometime in the evening I get a sudden feeling of panic, like alls not well with me or the world or that there's no comfort in the world. It's almost as if there's something wrong with my soul. I'll have a cry and then suddenly feel better.

[Lakelander82]

I'm going to ask a few simple questions here, has any member committed suicide while using the info on tapering on here and have their posts been deleted?

[Lakelander82]

It will be four weeks this Monday since my last cut and I still haven't "stabilised", surely my system would have become accustomed to the drop by now? If not why, is it a backlog thing or is the six month mark a time people generally run into difficulties? On previous cuts, once I'd hit the three week mark, everything was plain sailing but not this time. Mornings are the absolute worst, the first thing I notice when I wake up, is nervous energy travelling up and down my legs. Waking is shock to the system in itself and the first movements in the bed produce further shocks. It tends to get better during the day, apart from dark or anxious periods when I tear up - this could happen 5 -6 times in a day. By 11 o'clock at night I'm virtually a different person only for the cycle to repeat itself the next day. It's bewildering at times.

[Skeeter]

Lakelander,

I will reply in your thread. Thanks for stepping in to say hello. I scanned your thread and I think I know what is going on.

Skeeter

[Lakelander82]

Thanks Skeeter, much appreciated. I need something to grab onto.