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Sheri755: Effexor XR Reinstatement Amount?

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Sheri755

I'm sorry you're having such a difficult time, Sheri. You might want to try adding in a few beads of Effexor, see if that helps.

Okay, I will.  How many and what size do you recommend?

 

Thank you, Alto!  I watched your video a few days ago that someone shared.  What you are doing here is very noble and I'm honored to be a member.

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JanCarol

Hey Sherri - 

 

I'm sorry you are struggling.

 

Please, go easy on changing supplements, I think it is hard on you and destabilising you.  Your list of supplements - even though you feel you may need them - is really scary to me.  It's hard to figure out if anything is causing problems, when you are taking a whole mess of stuff like that.  I think of my supplements (yes, they are awful and complicated but each one is a SINGLE substance, no combinations) as a gigantic ship - if I want to make a change in them, I can't just stop on a dime and turn them around, I need to test the waves & wind, and gradually change course to match the new set.  

 

First your iodine:  you are low, sub-clinical levels, but you're not dying.  

I know this guy is a DC and not an MD, but I have little trust for MD's on the thyroid stuff, either.  Here is his reasoning for why iodine is not a good supplement for hypothyroidism:

 

I would say - don't worry about it for now.   Or, if it would make you feel better, consider iodine drops that you put in your water once a day (a light, single supplement, instead of a heavy intense dose).  Some of us use a little topically.  Remember when we were kids and got a scrape and Mom would put the orange stuff on it?  You can use that as a "tester."  Put a patch of it on your thigh or belly, and notice how long it takes to fade (absorb).  This is less than scientific, but a gentler approach than just bombing your body with iodine.

 

You said:

...adrenal issues as shown by a newer form of testing with computer software and electrodes attached to me. (Some call it Executive Physical) He said that my body was very stressed. This same test was performed on me last year by another MD when I was down to 37.5 mg Effexor. She said adrenals were off and told me to do deep breathing. The year before the test showed adrenals were normal while on a much higher dose. 150 mg or 300, I can't remember.

 

Um, is this electrical resistance testing?  And an MD is using this?  Woo!  Takes my breath away!  

 

Consider this:  https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/13926/

 

If this is what it is, I would not be frightened by anything the machine came up with.  It might provide very specific numbers and ranges for a number of nutrients and bodily functions - spookily so.  I had one done by a naturopath friend - and it scared the holy heck out of me!  It wasn't wrong, and it wasn't right.  I ended up thinking of it as a "psychic reading," and took it on board with about that much gravitas.

 

Most doctors will be giving hyrdrocortisone or DHEA for "fight or flight" adrenals.  

 

Most people in withdrawal have fight or flight adrenals.  Or collapse in a heap adrenals.  The numbers will get better as your endocrine and nervous system settles from this huge disruption.

 

I lost my thyroid due to "nodules."  Tons of 'm.  Probably mostly pea sized.  The problem wasn't that they were cancerous they were just there.

 

Instead of looking at the iodine, consider filtering the fluoride out of your water.  Be wary of "alkaline" or reverse osmosis waters, as they can cause "detox" and healing reaction - they are fine for short periods of time.  

 

Fluoride is an anti-thyroid chemical.  It is what they give to people with Graves Disease, and who are hyper-thyroid. 

 

Whew!

 

I'm going to take a break and come back and look at your Doctor's supplements...

 

I will say a gentle thing - if you are bedridden, it may be because you need rest.  That's okay, you know.  It may not feel okay, but extreme fatigue is part of the healing process.  Many of us have spent months in bed or at very low levels of activity.  I'm just now getting up to about half speed, and it feels frantic (even though I'm twice as slow as a "normal" human.)

 

The rest may be more important than the supplements, but I will go over them with you.  I am still a page behind, so maybe you aren't taking them.

 

Here are a few links to look at to consider what your doctor may be doing to you (natural or not!):

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2158-genetic-testing-personalized-medicine-liver-enzymes-genotypes-genesightrx-genomind-etc  (MTHFR, etc.)

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5662-how-good-are-naturopaths-and-other-alternative-practitioners/

(Naturopaths & natural practitioners - a cautionary tale)

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5547-the-importance-of-mthfr-methylation-and-b-vitamins/  (MTHFR)

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1591-withdrawal-syndrome-vs-adrenal-fatigue (adrenal issues)

My post in that thread:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1591-withdrawal-syndrome-vs-adrenal-fatigue/page-2?p=245913#entry245913  (there are interesting posts by AliG and SkyBlue after that)

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/919-six-mistakes-ive-made-in-withdrawal/  for you, #2 & #5 especially apply.

 

I'll be back to look things over again.  Breathe.  You can get through this.

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JanCarol

So have you decided to updose?

 

It's my belief that your flirting with supplements has been destabilising you, and that you won't really know until you hold them steady for at least 3 months.  Solid. 

 

But if you have to go up to 7, 10 beads, it's still so much better than a full dose!

 

Remember - withdrawal looks a lot like "adrenal and endocrine" issues, and your labs and numbers and stuff may be all over the charts until you have healed from withdrawal.  Do you still want me to go over the supplements that the doctor added last month?  Or have you been (rightfully) afraid to take them?

 

If you have updosed, how is that going for you?

I hope you see the sun today.

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Sheri755
Hi Jan,

Thank you for being so thorough!!  I've learned so much!!
 
I agree with you.  I feel like it's the supplements also so I don't plan on updosing. The terror has lessened.  Wednesday I accidentally took my Vyvanse first instead of 5 beads of Effexor as I have been.  Then, after reading Shanti's thread on Homeopathy, I decided to try the Stramonium 200 ck that she said "saved her life" with the anxiety while in withdrawal.  I started feeling dizzy and spit them out.  I'm taking Epsom Salt baths alot.  They seem to help with the anxiety more than anything else.
 
My naturopath gave me Nutra Biogenesis Menthyl Factors liquid that has 10 mg of B6, 400 mcg of Folate and 2500 mcg of B12 in a daily dose of 15 drops. She said that since I'm so sensitive, start with 5 drops. I have not taken any of it. 
 
The MD changed my thyroid medication to Nature Throid 48.75 mg.  I was taking a compounded version before he discovered the Hashimoto's. 
 
I suppose I should just take Pure Micronutrients chelated magnesium glycinate, 6,000 iu of the Nordic Naturals fish oil, Vitamin D-3,000 iu and of course, Ox Bile and Terrys Naturally Curamin Extra Strength that's been controlling the pain from Spondylolisthesis for almost a year now.  So, no need to check anything else.  Thank you!!
 
The reason that I'm bedridden is because of terror, anxiety, depression and no motivation. I also feel safer in the bedroom. Many days I get a few hours of relief after taking the Vyvanse, especially on less terror days. Perhaps it's the dopamine from it that helps.
 
I stopped the iodine several months ago and don't plan to take it.  I read that it's a big no no with Hashimoto's. 
I will not take the Deplin that my MD prescribed either for the MTHFR gene.  I'm awaiting awaiting results from 23andme on the other genes. 
 
 
The naturopath's findings of stress/deficiencies are based on a test called Asyra Assessment by holding two metal cylinders.  http://organichealthsystems.com/how-does-asyra-work.html
 
I think this is good for those with uninjured brains but not for me at this time. 
 
 
These testing methods are what my MD used. There may be one more but can't find it anywhere.  
 
 
I'm continually grateful for your wisdom.  
This has to be the worst thing I've been through in my 61 years, but you're right.  I will get through it!

I hope you're having a great day!!
 

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Sheri755

Jan, I forgot to ask if probiotics can be activating. The naturopath gave me 20 billion per capsule probiotics.  She said to take twice daily.  I know they are important for our gut but should I take them while I'm healing?

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JanCarol

Hey Sheri - 

 

The naturopath's findings of stress/deficiencies are based on a test called Asyra Assessment by holding two metal cylinders.  http://organichealth...asyra-work.html

 
I think this is good for those with uninjured brains but not for me at this time. 

 

 

 

No - it's just like a psychic reading.  If you sit down, 15 minutes later and do it again, you will get different readings.  It is a snapshot of what your skin resistance is like at a moment in time.  How they derive all that information from that snapshot reeks of witchcraft to me, but others may disagree.  I'm not sure what to say about the doctor ones, other than there was a "not for diagnosis, information only" on the first link.

 

Like I said, mine wasn't wrong, but it wasn't right, either.  Take it with a grain of iodine free salt, and you'll be fine.

 

Thinking about iodine, I get a bit of natural iodine from kelp.  But you are still in crisis.

 

Like the B-vitamin methyl factors your Naturopath gave you - if you were stable I would say try 1 drop (instead of 5).  But you are not stable, so leave them for later.

 

As for the Deplin - the problem is not your methylation status ("methyl" vitamins work fine for everyone, it's the non-methyl that are harmful for MTHFR people) - it's the withdrawal.  B vitamins can be crazy making for people in withdrawal.  And it's random!  The problem with the Deplin is that it's so strong!

 

Mmm.  Probiotics. Usually good.  BUT - anybody can react to anything, and you are in a very sensitive place right now. I see you found our probiotics thread - and yes - there are lots of people sensitive to them - but there are many types of probiotics, and you may be able to fine one which works for you - but this is not a good time to "experiment!"

 

I'm glad the bedroom is a "safe place" for you!  Make a nest there, with your knitting and magazines, books, and music or whatever you like to have around you.  Can you avoid the Vyanse and just "stay in?"

 

It's not wrong to want to stay in until your body gets better.  I really worry that popping Vyvanse is going to backfire on you.

 

As mods who have taught me frequently say:  You don't insist that a broken leg heal at a certain rate, and you stay off it until it heals!  How do you stay off an injured brain?  You rest.  You sleep.  You curl in your nest with a cat or dog or loved one.  And you wait.

 

After the supplements, I'm reluctant to advise an updose.  I'm worried that you will fall into a pattern of updose, get better, poop out, need to updose again.  There is no perfect dose.

 

 But it's your body - you can updose if you really feel like you are suffering.  My thoughts are this:  I would wait another two weeks after the supplement bump before considering it.  If at that time, you still feel unstable, try adding 2 beads.  Wait 2-3 weeks. See what happens.  Consider no more than 1 bead updoses after that.    Look for that "poop out" pattern - that may happen to you regardless.  You've been holding at 5 beads for awhile, but you've been fiddling with supplements.  You won't know how you really are until you stay the same for a long time.

 

You can do this, and it does get better.  Waiting, keeping still is the hardest part!  (see my sig:  Holding is hard work!)

Edited by JanCarol
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Sheri755

JanCarol:
 

I'm glad the bedroom is a "safe place" for you! Make a nest there, with your knitting and magazines, books, and music or whatever you like to have around you. Can you avoid the Vyanse and just "stay in?"

It's not wrong to want to stay in until your body gets better. I really worry that popping Vyvanse is going to backfire on you.

As mods who have taught me frequently say: You don't insist that a broken leg heal at a certain rate, and you stay off it until it heals! How do you stay off an injured brain? You rest. You sleep. You curl in your nest with a cat or dog or loved one. And you wait.

After the supplements, I'm reluctant to advise an updose. I'm worried that you will fall into a pattern of updose, get better, poop out, need to updose again. There is no perfect dose.

But it's your body - you can updose if you really feel like you are suffering. My thoughts are this: I would wait another two weeks after the supplement bump before considering it. If at that time, you still feel unstable, try adding 2 beads. Wait 2-3 weeks. See what happens. Consider no more than 1 bead updoses after that. Look for that "poop out" pattern - that may happen to you regardless. You've been holding at 5 beads for awhile, but you've been fiddling with supplements. You won't know how you really are until you stay the same for a long time.

You can do this, and it does get better. Waiting, keeping still is the hardest part! (see my sig: Holding is hard work!)

 

Hi Jan,

I reinstated 5 beads on 7-14 and felt incredible for 10 days, then a wave came for several weeks followed by a month long window. Now a month in another wave.

I stopped the Mag L-Threonate.
and the very strong Probiotic today.
Currently taking 6,000 mg Nordic Naturals Liquid Fish Oil,
Vit D, Ox Bile (no gallbladder) and Terry's Curamin Extra Strength (Spondylolisthesis)
Also my hormones and Nature Thyroid.

I have Mag Glycinate Chelated that I haven't taken yet.

I've been on clonazepam for many years and Vyvanse for about four years. Would it be wise to start tapering it now or should I wait?

Edited by JanCarol
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JanCarol

Hey Sheri - good news!  These may just be "normal" windows and waves!  

 

You are getting windows, so I'd be reluctant to updose.  If you updose every time you go into a wave, it results in greater instability.

 

The Vyvanse - is it something you take every day?  Or is it an "as needed thing?"  If it's an as needed thing, track when you take it, and compare it to your waves.

 

Regardless of what you've been told, it is a stimulant, even if it's an "atypical" one.  

 

I was thinking of you this morning as I fried up some chicken hearts for breakfast - another way to get your b-vitamins is through organ meats.  Chicken livers are the best (organic if you can) but I saw the chicken hearts and wanted to try them instead.  Some people get entirely all the B-vitamins they need through organ meats.  No need for expensive vitamins, when you can get it in food.

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Sheri755

Hey Sheri - good news! These may just be "normal" windows and waves!

 

You are getting windows, so I'd be reluctant to updose. If you updose every time you go into a wave, it results in greater instability.

 

The Vyvanse - is it something you take every day? Or is it an "as needed thing?" If it's an as needed thing, track when you take it, and compare it to your waves.

 

Regardless of what you've been told, it is a stimulant, even if it's an "atypical" one.

 

I was thinking of you this morning as I fried up some chicken hearts for breakfast - another way to get your b-vitamins is through organ meats. Chicken livers are the best (organic if you can) but I saw the chicken hearts and wanted to try them instead. Some people get entirely all the B-vitamins they need through organ meats. No need for expensive vitamins, when you can get it in food.

Jan, So it is good news about the Windows?! Yay!!

Yes, I've taken the Vyvanse daily for several years.

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Sheri755

 

Hey Sheri - good news! These may just be "normal" windows and waves!

 

You are getting windows, so I'd be reluctant to updose. If you updose every time you go into a wave, it results in greater instability.

 

The Vyvanse - is it something you take every day? Or is it an "as needed thing?" If it's an as needed thing, track when you take it, and compare it to your waves.

 

Regardless of what you've been told, it is a stimulant, even if it's an "atypical" one.

 

I was thinking of you this morning as I fried up some chicken hearts for breakfast - another way to get your b-vitamins is through organ meats. Chicken livers are the best (organic if you can) but I saw the chicken hearts and wanted to try them instead. Some people get entirely all the B-vitamins they need through organ meats. No need for expensive vitamins, when you can get it in food.

Jan, So it is good news about the Windows?! Yay!!

Yes, I've taken the Vyvanse daily for several years.

My hubby gets free range chicken livers from a local source. I've been too nauseated to eat them lately, though.

Would it be ok to start, say half, of Pure Micronutrients Magnesium Chelate-Glycinate? The company is based in Australia but I couldn't find it on Consumer Labs. I'm thinking that I might absorb it since it releases in the small intestine since I have no gallbladder? I could pour out half or more of a capsule.

 

What are your thoughts on this and tapering Vyvanse?

 

Thank you, Dear One!!

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JanCarol

Hey Sheri - 

Pure Micronutrients Magnesium Chelate-Glycinate . . . The company is based in Australia but I couldn't find it on Consumer Labs. 

 

Shortly after I moved here, there was a huge kerfuffle around purity, potency and contaminants in Australian supplements. (2003?). The cost to the corporation was harsh enough to warrant an industry-wide shift.

 

After the kerfuffle, the vitamin companies who manufacture here are too afraid of the TGA (Therapeutic Goods Administration) and so practices here are pretty above board.  There's still dodgy Asian stuff, but if it is mfg in Australia, you almost don't need Consumer Labs.  That's almost because there's always someone wanting to go for the easy buck.

 

BUT - this product, Pure Micronutrients, is in another tier of supplements which the US doesn't have.  Similar to Europe, where all supplements must be prescribed by a practitioner, we have "practitioner only" supplements.  Supplements which are meant to treat conditions, instead of maintenance, nutritional supplements.  This is a practitioner only supplement, and I have found this tier of supplements to be superior to anything I could get commercially in the USA.

 

What gets my goat, is I probably would have to pay twice the US Amazon price - plus an appointment with a naturopath - in order to get it legally here!

 

So - when - you - have - settled! Would be a good time to try 1/4 tablet or 1/2 tablet Mag.  I would probably start with 1/4 tablet.

 

Waitaminute - you take a bunch of mag threonate.  Why do you need to add this?  With the threonate, you are not likely mag deficient.  2 kinds is overkill (but I do it, just because I am too cheap to pay for all my mag in $threaonate$).

 

So don't worry about it yet.  Get still, get settled.  

 

It may be that when you do taper, the Vyvanse might be a good place to start.  It's likely to be an easier taper than the Effexor, and that will bring you one step closer to the Real You!

 

Keep us posted on your symptoms!

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Sheri755

Hey Sheri -

Pure Micronutrients Magnesium Chelate-Glycinate . . . The company is based in Australia but I couldn't find it on Consumer Labs.

Shortly after I moved here, there was a huge kerfuffle around purity, potency and contaminants in Australian supplements. (2003?). The cost to the corporation was harsh enough to warrant an industry-wide shift.

 

After the kerfuffle, the vitamin companies who manufacture here are too afraid of the CGS (Consumer Goods Services) and so practices here are pretty above board. There's still dodgy Asian stuff, but if it is mfg in Australia, you almost don't need Consumer Labs. That's almost because there's always someone wanting to go for the easy buck.

 

BUT - this product, Pure Micronutrients, is in another tier of supplements which the US doesn't have. Similar to Europe, where all supplements must be prescribed by a practitioner, we have "practitioner only" supplements. Supplements which are meant to treat conditions, instead of maintenance, nutritional supplements. This is a practitioner only supplement, and I have found this tier of supplements to be superior to anything I could get commercially in the USA.

 

What gets my goat, is I probably would have to pay twice the US Amazon price - plus an appointment with a naturopath - in order to get it legally here!

 

So - when - you - have - settled! Would be a good time to try 1/4 tablet or 1/2 tablet Mag. I would probably start with 1/4 tablet.

 

Waitaminute - you take a bunch of mag threonate. Why do you need to add this? With the threonate, you are not likely mag deficient. 2 kinds is overkill (but I do it, just because I am too cheap to pay for all my mag in $threaonate$).

 

So don't worry about it yet. Get still, get settled.

 

It may be that when you do taper, the Vyvanse might be a good place to start. It's likely to be an easier taper than the Effexor, and that will bring you one step closer to the Real You!

 

Keep us posted on your symptoms!

Jan, I stopped the L-Threonate on 10-7. I think I remember you mentioning that L-Threonate may be activating.

 

The only magnesium I'm getting is the Magnesium Chloride baths.

 

Would it be safer to sip 1/4 capsule of Magnesium Glycinate In water or 1/4 capsule once a day?

 

I'm on my phone in bed and can't see my two previous posts as I write this. Seems like I had another question.

 

Thank you, Dear Jan!!

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JanCarol

Hey Sheri - 

 

Sipping a solution is what Alto did.  You can build up to a full tablet a day that way, and you can have a calming sip to help you with stress.

 

Alto used citrate, which dissolves in water very well.  I don't know how the glycinate dissolves.  But try it and see.

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scallywag

Magnesium Glycinate dissolves in water.

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Sheri755

Hey Sheri -

 

Sipping a solution is what Alto did. You can build up to a full tablet a day that way, and you can have a calming sip to help you with stress.

 

Alto used citrate, which dissolves in water very well. I don't know how the glycinate dissolves. But try it and see.

Yes, it dissolves nicely in water.

A question about my daily Vyvanse 30 mg that I've been on about 4 years...

I'm soo glad that I tapered to 30 mg from 60 mg before withdrawal but it seems that after it kicks in each morning, I'm huffing and puffing and my heart rate is just under 120. This lasts until around 3 pm. I know this is bad stuff...now.

 

Am I more sensitive to it now that I'm in wd, even though it's the same dose? Also, do you think I should VERY, VERY slowly taper? This can't be good for my heart.

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Sheri755

Magnesium Glycinate dissolves in water.

Yes, it does! Thank you!!

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JanCarol

Hey Sheri - I reckon you're going to need a liquid taper to do the Vyvanse.  I would still try a 10% drop and see how that goes - when you are ready.

 

How to Make a Liquid from Tablets or Capsule

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/235-using-an-oral-syringe-and-other-tapering-techniques/

 

If the 10% drop is too much, consider smaller drops.  As always, hold when you are having symptoms.  It should be an easier journey than the Effexor was, if you sneak it out carefully enough.

 

I'm glad that you are thinking of reducing it.  I believe you will feel so much better when you are off of that anxiety-producing drug!

 

It's probably hard on your adrenals, too - as I believe it sets you up in an excitatory state on a daily basis.  Over time, it could make your adrenals look very tired - which may be the naturopath tried to set up support for your adrenals.  Tapering the Vyvanse will probably improve your condition significantly.

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Sheri755

You know, Vyvanse and Provigil were the only two drugs that helped with motivation/depression while on Effexor. Maybe it's the dopamine.

 

Anyway, I'll check out the link tomorrow and start the liquid taper.

As always, thank you soo very much!! ????

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Sheri755

I have really been suffering since 9-12-16. Holding at 5 beads since reinstating in July. The wide eyed terror is the worst of all symptoms.

 

I did begin the 10% liguid taper of Vyvanse today as recommended by JanCarol. I had issues with rapid heart rate before WD but it seems worse until it wears off. I'm afraid of developing an enlarged heart.

 

I'm still bedridden and unable to drive, I force myself to eat when I'm not too nauseated. The cortisol early mornings seem worse. I have room darkening drapes and wear an eye mask.

 

How much longer should I wait to stabilize? My hubby says my eyes have a glazed over look from the fear.

 

I hope this finds you all well.

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JanCarol

Hey Sheri - I'm just checking in from my travels to see how you are going - 

 

Please put your Vyvanse taper on your signature - from your thread, I'm guessing that you dropped 10% sometimes between 21st-31st October?  

 

Are you comfortable making a liquid, and doing the 10% taper?  Is that going okay?  It's not my area of expertise, but I'd like you to feel confident that you are getting consistent dosing.

 

How long should you wait?  Until you are stable again.  That may not be for another 4-6 weeks from your date of taper.

 

Take daily notes on paper, so that you can learn what tapering is like for you.  This is your first proper taper, so pay close attention.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1779-rate-symptoms-daily-to-track-patterns-and-progress/

 

You may find that the first 2 weeks are hardest, with a bump a few weeks later.  Or maybe the first week will be easiest for you, with increasing waves until the windows start coming.  It's different for everyone, and your notes on paper from your dosage changes, will help you understand your own body, your own patterns, and help guide you on your tapers in  ways that I cannot (because I'm not there with you, in your body).

 

If the symptoms are unbearable, you can consider reinstating 5% of your Vyvanse, and understand that this may be a slower taper than you thought it would be.

 

It's been so hard for you - please - while all of this is happening - please keep your supplements stable.  It's very important that you only change one variable at a time - like a science experiment - so you can know what changes cause what effects.

 

I hope you see the sun today! 

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Sheri755

Hey Sheri - I'm just checking in from my travels to see how you are going -

 

Please put your Vyvanse taper on your signature - from your thread, I'm guessing that you dropped 10% sometimes between 21st-31st October?

 

Are you comfortable making a liquid, and doing the 10% taper? Is that going okay? It's not my area of expertise, but I'd like you to feel confident that you are getting consistent dosing.

 

How long should you wait? Until you are stable again. That may not be for another 4-6 weeks from your date of taper.

 

Take daily notes on paper, so that you can learn what tapering is like for you. This is your first proper taper, so pay close attention.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1779-rate-symptoms-daily-to-track-patterns-and-progress/

 

You may find that the first 2 weeks are hardest, with a bump a few weeks later. Or maybe the first week will be easiest for you, with increasing waves until the windows start coming. It's different for everyone, and your notes on paper from your dosage changes, will help you understand your own body, your own patterns, and help guide you on your tapers in ways that I cannot (because I'm not there with you, in your body).

 

If the symptoms are unbearable, you can consider reinstating 5% of your Vyvanse, and understand that this may be a slower taper than you thought it would be.

 

It's been so hard for you - please - while all of this is happening - please keep your supplements stable. It's very important that you only change one variable at a time - like a science experiment - so you can know what changes cause what effects.

 

I hope you see the sun today!

Hi Jan,

 

My hubby is following the directions on the Vyvanse liquid taper and mixing it as I am too fearful to do anything. I will add the date that the 30 mg Vyvanse began to my signature which is 10-30-16.

 

I have been really suffering with the terror since 9-12-16, keeping my supplements stable. Fish oil, Magnesium and curamin. There are many days that I don't want to live.

 

I often think that I should increase my Effexor dose so I'm able to get out of bed but I don't know.

 

Thank you, dear Jan

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Sheri755

 

Hey Sheri - I'm just checking in from my travels to see how you are going -

Please put your Vyvanse taper on your signature - from your thread, I'm guessing that you dropped 10% sometimes between 21st-31st October?

Are you comfortable making a liquid, and doing the 10% taper? Is that going okay? It's not my area of expertise, but I'd like you to feel confident that you are getting consistent dosing.

How long should you wait? Until you are stable again. That may not be for another 4-6 weeks from your date of taper.

Take daily notes on paper, so that you can learn what tapering is like for you. This is your first proper taper, so pay close attention.http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1779-rate-symptoms-daily-to-track-patterns-and-progress/

You may find that the first 2 weeks are hardest, with a bump a few weeks later. Or maybe the first week will be easiest for you, with increasing waves until the windows start coming. It's different for everyone, and your notes on paper from your dosage changes, will help you understand your own body, your own patterns, and help guide you on your tapers in ways that I cannot (because I'm not there with you, in your body).

If the symptoms are unbearable, you can consider reinstating 5% of your Vyvanse, and understand that this may be a slower taper than you thought it would be.

It's been so hard for you - please - while all of this is happening - please keep your supplements stable. It's very important that you only change one variable at a time - like a science experiment - so you can know what changes cause what effects.

I hope you see the sun today!

Hi Jan,

My hubby is following the directions on the Vyvanse liquid taper and mixing it as I am too fearful to do anything. I will add the date that the 30 mg Vyvanse began to my signature which is 10-30-16.

I have been really suffering with the terror since 9-12-16, keeping my supplements stable. Fish oil, Magnesium and curamin. There are many days that I don't want to live.

I often think that I should increase my Effexor dose so I'm able to get out of bed but I don't know.

Thank you, dear Jan

Edit: I meant to say that I will add the 30 mg Vyvanse TAPER to my signature.

Also, I apologize for not being clear... I was referring to stabilizing on the 5 beads of Effexor (not Vyvanse) since I've been bedridden with terror so long.

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Sheri755

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thank you all so much!

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scallywag

Sheri, which question(s) do you want addressed?

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Sheri755

Hi Scally,

 

I have been really suffering with the terror since 9-12-16, keeping my supplements stable. Fish oil, Magnesium and curamin. There are many days that I don't want to live.

 

Do you think that I should increase my 5 Beads Effexor that I've been holding since July so I'm able to get out of bed?

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scallywag

Thanks for clarifying. I wish I could help you.  All I've got is speculation:

 

- I wonder about the onset of having terror, about 2 months after you split the clonazepam dosing from 2/day to 3/day.

- Tapering Vyvanse may reduce the stimulation.

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Sheri755

Yes, that's right, Scally. The benzo site recommended that I split the dose in thirds for a more even dosing, they said.

 

Do you not think this was a good idea?

What, if anything, should I do about it?

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scallywag

I don't know, Sheri. It was merely something that I noticed.

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Sheri755

I don't know, Sheri. It was merely something that I noticed.

Thank you! Do you know anyone who might have a recommendation of going back to the 2 a day of clonazepam?

Also, did you have any thoughts on my question of increasing the Effexor?

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Sheri755

I'm afraid that I should not have followed the benzo site's advice now according to Scally's speculation.  It enforces my reasoning in what I read on a thread here  (just a couple of days ago) that the blood plasma level decreases when splitting benzo doses.  It went on to say that it was just like a cut in the medication.

 

I know nothing about the pharmacology of clonazepam.  Does this sound as though splitting the doses into three times a day from twice daily (1.0 a.m. & .5 bedtime) could be the reason for such debilitating terror and paranoia?  I've heard benzos are really tough to get off of also.

 

Thank you, as always, for your insight and wisdom :-)

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scallywag

Sheri my speculation is as valid as saying that your panic/terror was caused by an solar eclipse of one of Jupiter's moons or by a dog barking in Atlanta.  I shouldn't have posted it, a comment that is now causing you to question a previous decision you made. I hope you can let
 
Are you keeping a log of symptoms and times you take your meds? It can help to see if there's a pattern related to the doses, either an interdose withdrawal or an adverse effect. Here's a post that lists way to keep the notes that is helpful for this kind of troubleshooting.
Take notes of doses and symptoms

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Sheri755

Sheri my speculation is as valid as saying that your panic/terror was caused by an solar eclipse of one of Jupiter's moons or by a dog barking in Atlanta. I shouldn't have posted it, a comment that is now causing you to question a previous decision you made. I hope you can let

 

Are you keeping a log of symptoms and times you take your meds? It can help to see if there's a pattern related to the doses, either an interdose withdrawal or an adverse effect. Here's a post that lists way to keep the notes that is helpful for this kind of troubleshooting.

Take notes of doses and symptoms

Dear Scally,

 

It's quite okay. Your wheels were just turning and I appreciate that more than you know.

 

I can definitely let it go. IF this terror is from the clonazepam change then so be it. It's in the past and changing the dose again could only make things worse.

 

Thank you for the link. I actually read it several days ago and printed some daily "planners" which are very basic and perfect for what Alto suggested.

 

I have been using the Joseph Glenmullen Daily Checklist for Withdrawal Symptoms since July and I'll add this one also.

 

I'm so excited to have discovered Magnesium Chloride baths. What a relief it has been! I also started meditation Sunday for the first time in my life. I almost fell asleep today!

 

The early a.m. Cortisol surges have worsened but I'll live.

I'm praying that things will settle after I finish the Vyvanse taper.

 

What a great thing you are doing to help others, Scally.

I sincerely thank you with all my heart!

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Sheri755

Wow!! Just had to tell my sweet granddaughter that it's not a good idea for her to come over tomorrow. I haven't seen her in months. My other two granddaughters have asked to come over several times but the paranoia and terror are too strong.

 

I hope and pray that they don't forget me as they're growing up. We used to have them over every other weekend. My youngest said that she would give me a massage...like the ones I used to give her.

 

I'm soaking in the tub (my second home) again hoping to get some relief.

 

Just really missing my sweet girls and life as it was.

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JanCarol

Hey Sheri - 

Do you know anyone who might have a recommendation of going back to the 2 a day of clonazepam?

Also, did you have any thoughts on my question of increasing the Effexor? 

 

When looking at benzos, it's good to look at half-life.

Clonazepam has a half life of 24 hours, so you really shouldn't need to dose more than 1x per day.  

 

Of course, changing the time and method of your doses counts as a drug change, so wait until you're 4 weeks out from your last taper, then consider moving it to 2x a day.  

If 2x a day is an improvement, then you're onto something.

 

But you said it wisely, here:

IF this terror is from the clonazepam change then so be it. It's in the past and changing the dose again could only make things worse. 

 

Sheri, I can't help but think that you keep looking to drugs and supplements to get you through the terror.

 

Have you tried listening to Claire Weekes?  Dr. Claire Weekes - Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

You really need to focus less on supplements and drugs, and more on how to live through the symptoms.  Like Claire Weeke's AAF system - Acknowledge, Accept, and Float (and Brassmonkey says: TIME is important, too).

 

Health Anxiety, Hypochondria, and Obsession with Symptoms

Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms

 

And it looks like you are onto these, too:

I'm so excited to have discovered Magnesium Chloride baths. What a relief it has been! I also started meditation Sunday for the first time in my life. I almost fell asleep today!

 

Ah,, the mag chloride bath.  Sometimes, it's as good as exercise!  Really calming, and is great for adjusting mood.  I love my tub, too!!!!

 

I'm glad to see you are doing better!

 

I hope you see the sun today, and a grandchild soon!

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Sheri755

Hi Jan,

 

MamaP suggested that I ask the benzo group about changing the clonazepam dose to three times a day instead of twice daily. I followed their advice to do so. This was awhile back.

 

I regret making that change. I had been taking 1.0 mg in the morning and .5 mg nightly for years but I accepted their advice.

 

I'm not tapering Effexor. I've been on 5 beads since reinstating in July. You already know that I am doing the liguid taper of Vyvanse, following the recommended directions.

 

I've been in a horrible wave since Sept. 12th.

 

Supplements are stable. Eating nutritiously in hopes of getting all that I need from food, even without a gallbladder.

 

It would be nice to only take the clonazepam twice daily but I don't have a clue if it would be the right decision or not now. I wish I'd known about the long half life before. I would not have changed the dosage.

 

Thank you so much for the links! I've watched her YouTube videos and have her book.

 

Take Good Care, Dear One

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Sheri755

I'm really struggling. Sometimes the baths help but not always. 4 cups of magnesium chloride, soaking for one hour or longer. I had to get out of the tub twice the other day to relieve my bladder.

 

Please see the last few posts.

 

How much longer should I remain in bed wide eyed with terror? I'm so very scared.

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