cpuusage: history and experiences

[cpuusage]

Hi all.
 
Below is a brief history of things. A lot has gone on.
 
As a kid, around the age of 5 to 6 i was very contented. Age 7 onward there were difficulties. i had a bad accident, a severe head/neck injury, i don't know how that impacted things? i started getting nightmares/problems with sleep. i experienced with hindsight what i think was a psychotic episode around age 7 as well. 
 
Age 11 i first got drunk & smoked cannabis. By age 15 i was habitually drinking/drug taking. There had been increasing anxiety, depression & problems with sleep.
 
When i left school i went to art college for 2 years & was very depressed. Shortly after leaving age 17/18 i experienced a very severe psychotic episode, was convinced that i'd lost my soul to the devil & saw a vision of the end of the World, was sectioned for 4 months in a locked ward & very heavily medicated. They diagnosed a drug induced psychosis. i left hospital, came off all the medication & went into full time work for some 4 years. i managed to stay away from the drink/drugs for a time but it crept back in again. Age 21 i went into another severe psychosis, got clean/sober for 6 months, & landed in a drug treatment center. i became very paranoid, believed that people wanted to kidnap, torture & kill me. i also became convinced i was the Devil & had a serious attempt at suicide. This lead to another stay in psychiatric hospital & being placed on prozac & stelazine. They diagnosed psychotic depression.
 
i then went into sheltered accommodation for a few years, the drink/drug use increased again. i came off all the medication, did another college course & then went into full time work. Age 25 i had another severe psychosis, & smashed up the room i was staying in, was sectioned again & diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. i was placed on a 1200mg dose of Amisulpride. After a year of that dose i stopped it cold turkey, went very psychotic & was again sectioned. i refused all medication for a while & then agreed to a 200mg dose, after being threatened with a section 3 (forced treatment) & depot injections, if i didn't take anything.
 
Age 26 to 28 i went back into the addiction, & age 28 again went into a severe psychosis - i was refused any help from psychiatric services & sought out help from NA/12 step. The first 3 years of sobriety were hell. i stopped the Amisulpride twice, the first time with a 3 month reduction & the last time with a 2 year tapered reduction. Each time i ended up in severe psychosis.
 
That last withdrawal attempt off the medication was 12 years ago - i have maintained the 200mg dose of Amisulpride, & increased it to 300mg a few years ago. i have been in T-total recovery from the drink/drugs & clean/sober for 15 years. it very much feels that there are underlying psychological/emotional difficulties still.
 
All things considered i do accept the schizophrenia diagnosis as being valid. i am interested in what other peoples thoughts are here on it all? How other people have done with coming off neuroleptics with a diagnosis of severe schizophrenia/multiple episodes of psychosis?
 
ideally i'd love to be successfully free of this medication, just don't know how i can do it without severe illness.
 
i have tried many things over the past 15 years connected with healing, but it still feels that things are unresolved.
 
Thanks.

Edited November 5, 2016 by JanCarol
tags added

[scallywag]

cpuusage -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)

I hope you'll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation. I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but am glad that you found us.

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-18 months particularly? Any drugs prior to that can just be listed with start and stop years.

Please put your withdrawal history in signature

To find others taking amisulpride, look at the bottom of this page in your Introduction topic (and any page in this topic after it is longer than 1 page). There are introduction topics for other members who are taking the same medication as you are. Another way to find people posting about topics of interest to you is to use google with the search term "survivingantidepressants" and your interest, e.g. "psychosis" You'll get a list of search results where the word psychosis occurs.

There are members here who have successfully tapered off neuroleptic drugs, aka "anti-psychotic" drugs. We suggest a slow gradual taper by reducing dose 10% no more often than once every month. If you decide to reduce dosage, you may want to reduce with a smaller percentage and hold at a dose for longer. This will allow you enough time to see how your CNS (central nervous system) responds to the change.
Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Here are two links (one a topic here on the SA forum; the other a Youtube video) that provide some information that may help you understand the rationale behind the 10% taper. Although the video refers to antidepressants, the same principles apply to healing from other psychotropic medications.
How your brain responds to psychiatric drugs - aka "Brain remodeling"
Youtube video, 3 min. 44 sec.: Healing from antidepressants

 

What are you doing to address the "underlying psychological/emotional difficulties" you suspect are still at play?

 

This is YOUR introduction topic -- the place for you to ask questions, record symptoms, share your progress, and connect with other members of the SA community. 

[cpuusage]

What are you doing to address the "underlying psychological/emotional difficulties" you suspect are still at play?

 

i have never been able to access what i feel is more appropriate psychological/emotional & social understanding, help & support. i am afraid that however i try & come off the medication, that the result will be the same & that i will go into severe psychosis. For the past 15 years i have been following a dedicated recovery/healing path, with 12 step, working with alternative healers, building a social network & self help. i have tried many things, but also feel that there are underlying difficulties that are unresolved. i have in ways internalised & rationalised the diagnosis/medication. 

 

In 30 years, & going back into childhood, the only half appropriate psychological help was 10 sessions with an NHS psychologist. People don't get my experiences anyway, they don't understand, so what's the point continually trying to seek out an understanding for it all? i don't have the money for a private therapist & can't access/find one anyway, who is willing to work with me. i have also been fully discharged from all psychiatric services for close to 5 years again.

 

i don't know with it all? It has seemed like a lesser of evils to just keep taking the pills. i vowed after the last withdrawal & severe psychosis that if i tried again it would be with proper/appropriate support, & i've Not been able to find it. i just wondered if anyone here had any suggestion, perspective or avenue for things that i'm unaware of.

[cpuusage]

Maybe i could try a gradual reduction initially back to the 200mg dose?

 

There are ongoing problems with sleep, a lot of difficulty with overall functioning, & a lot of often bad general/social anxiety & bad feelings.

My mood feels low at the moment.

Things seem multi-factorial.

 

i wrote this recently about the last episode (which happened 12 years ago) -

 

From day one i fought the system. Was violently forced sectioned, forced treated/drugged 4 times against my will, in states of extreme psychosis. During the first hospital section i believe i was raped by the staff. i went through another 3 major breakdowns/severe episodes after all that with zero contact with the system trying to resolve things. i stopped all medication 5 times & went some 8 years unmedicated after the first major psychosis.

 

The last time i stopped the medication i did a very careful 2 year tapered reduction, & tried my best to get as much support & understanding as i could. i woke up one morning totally psychotic, i didn't sleep for well over 2 weeks, zero sleep. i had voices shouting at me from above my head. i was convinced that i'd found a buried mother ship & i was leader of an underground rebel alien resistance, & that a dark alien race i was at war with had infected me with a terrible virus - that secret agents were following & monitoring me in the street. That voodoo practitioners had stolen my identity & were turning me into a zombie. That a brood of snakes were living under the sink. i had a hallucination that was so real everything physical didn't really exist. the same hallucination lasted for days & was all i could see. i was convinced that my mother was wearing skin suits & was working for Mi5 & was an immortal, that she had decontamination pods under the house where she could get rid of the alien virus. There were underground cities & high speed roadways, secret tunnels connecting houses. i was also part of a Holy family in the present that was connected through some kind of wormhole with the family of Jesus in the past - both time streams were existing simultaneously, & there were 2 of everyone & everything, in the past & present, one version real & good, & the other bad. i was in a near total catatonic state. All of that experience accompanied by a terrible & tangible sense of Evil, that others very much felt.

 

Each of the 7 major episodes/8 years in severe florid psychosis in total were as extreme.

 

i was taken to the Doctor who wanted to put me in hospital, when i started talking about his computer being connected to an orbiting mother ship & him being part of the light side alien resistance. i was put back on a low dose of the medication & referred to psychiatric services. For a year the maximum amount of time i could sleep each night was between half an hour to a couple of hours. It took years to recover from it all.

[cpuusage]

i have trained in various alternative healing areas, Reiki to master level & various other modalities. For the past 2 years i have been experimenting with various Rife & Radionic equipment, which are electro-medical healing devices. i have also tried a lot in the way of diet/supplements.

 

i'm starting work with another alternative/spiritual healer soon.

 

Still feel that i need proper psychological help.

 

i do think that things are multi-factorial - i see things in an integral/holistic sense - mind/body/soul/spirit/environment. That things cross - biological, psychological, sociological & spiritual/transpersonal ranges. There is No either/or & everything is interconnected, interdependent & interrelated. We don't know the exact weightings in individual cases of mental health difficulty.

[cpuusage]

Possibly it could be a goal to try & gently reduce back down to a 200mg dose from the 300mg.

[scallywag]

If you want to move to a lower dose cautiously, you can always reduce by less than 10% and hold at a dose longer than one month. Here are two alternate methods you may want to consider:

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases
The BrassMonkey Slide - a 6 week process that starts with a small reductions (<2.5%) each of 4 weeks

[cpuusage]

Thank you scallywag, Yes that is worth considering.

[nz11]

Hi cpuusage

The tapering method is worth more than a consideration for it is everything when it comes to getting free of this stuff.

It is well worth it to consider follow the (harm reduction and severe illness minimizing) tapering advise provided at sa.

The 'severe illness ' you talk of occurred because you tapered too fast.

 

All things considered i do accept the schizophrenia diagnosis as being valid. i am interested in what other peoples thoughts are here on it all? How other people have done with coming off neuroleptics with a diagnosis of severe schizophrenia/multiple episodes of psychosis?
 ideally i'd love to be successfully free of this medication, just don't know how i can do it without severe illness.

i have a feeling the emotional issues you talk of are simply neuro-emotions masquerading as 'psychosis' from withdrawal effects. 

I would also seriously doubt every diagnostic label given to you. But thats just my opinion. Surely it is simply wrong to be giving a persons brain labels when brain altering drugs or withdrawal from brain altering drugs are in play.

 

You can get off these drugs ...You can do this.

Are you able to get hold of the award winning book by R Whitaker 'Anatomy of an epidemic' I'm sure your local library will have a copy. It is well worth spending time reading this.

Another book i like is P Breggin's 'Psychiatric drug withdrawal'

 

So glad you found sa. You are not alone.

nz11

[cpuusage]

I would also seriously doubt every diagnostic label given to you. But thats just my opinion. Surely it is simply wrong to be giving a persons brain labels when brain altering drugs or withdrawal from brain altering drugs are in play.

 

You can get off these drugs ...You can do this.

Are you able to get hold of the award winning book by R Whitaker 'Anatomy of an epidemic' I'm sure your local library will have a copy. It is well worth spending time reading this.

Another book i like is P Breggin's 'Psychiatric drug withdrawal'

 

So glad you found sa. You are not alone.

nz11

 

Hi. Thanks for the reply. i was in severe psychosis & with a lot of difficulties before i came into contact with psychiatry & psychiatric drug treatments. It seems impossible to really separate out what is an underlying condition from drug withdrawal effects, but i don't doubt that there is an underlying condition. There are also so many theories, perspectives & understandings to mental health.

 

i've read/researched a lot of Whitaker & Breggin, & have those books. i have around 700 books, mainly on various aspects of mental health, psychology, & spirituality. i have done a lot of reading & research into all these areas.

[peng]

Wow! - I knew you must be well read from your other new post today with the links.

An awesome amount of information you must have processed in your search for answers.

Good luck - your endeavours deserve it.

Maybe you could cast a few pearls out to us pigs who cannot hope to concentrate and read as much as that!

 

Best wishes.

[cpuusage]

Wow! - I knew you must be well read from your other new post today with the links.

An awesome amount of information you must have processed in your search for answers.

Good luck - your endeavours deserve it.

Maybe you could cast a few pearls out to us pigs who cannot hope to concentrate and read as much as that!

 

Best wishes.

 

Thanks. It has been somewhat of an obsession, especially over the past 12 years, to have looked into these areas a lot. The thing with it all is; i'm No closer to any kind of categorical answer with it all than i was, even less so. i don't think that anyone has any answers to it all. The subject of mental health is vast & goes into so many subjects/fields. i have noted that the areas mental health cover can be categorized into 4 main fields (with sub divisions), with various cross overs - biological, psychological, sociological & spiritual/transpersonal. But there's No more of an answer in any of that. Logically i think it makes sense to take a more integral/holistic view, but different people have different ideas on it all, often very different.

[cpuusage]

Maybe you could cast a few pearls out to us pigs who cannot hope to concentrate and read as much as that!

 

No One Knows..........

 

[cpuusage]

Here's a pearl of wisdom (imo) -

 

"Physics, biology, chemistry or any other science—despite their success in analysing the material world—simply cannot explain the purpose and origin of existence. They cannot account for the essence within each and everyone of us that makes us conscious individuals with a deep sense of self and of subjective experience. Our spark of being—the one that makes us creators, thinkers and observers with such a rich and multifaceted inner world—is undeniably beyond the bounds of mainstream science..."

[cpuusage]

The Pain Washes Out.......

 

[cpuusage]

[cpuusage]

Zara Larsson has the right idea living her Lush Life -

[nz11]

Well you have certainly read and researched extensively. Very impressive.

If after reading  Mosher, Breggin, Whitaker, Moncrieff, Martinsson, Healy you still belief your diagnosis of schizophrenia is valid then who am i to question it.

 

I am sure though that with help from sa you have a chance of getting drug free.

 

Go well

nz11

[cpuusage]

Well you have certainly read and researched extensively. Very impressive.

If after reading  Mosher, Breggin, Whitaker, Moncrieff, Martinsson, Healy you still belief your diagnosis of schizophrenia is valid then who am i to question it.

 

I am sure though that with help from sa you have a chance of getting drug free.

 

Go well

nz11

 

i may be wrong, but even with a far more ideal system, i still feel that there would be a place for a potential wise use of medication in cases & that some people would be best helped with medication, as part of a more comprehensive approach to care. i'm Not anti a far more comprehensive psychiatry & potential wise use of pharmacology.

 

The problem currently is that we don't have an ideal system. i fought the system, & was forced hospitalised/medicated 4 times. largely against my will. i've Not had access to proper alternatives to all that. 

 

i do think that mental illness is far too widely & easily diagnosed & medications handed out far too easily. The vast majority of what comes under the 'mental health' umbrella now i also feel is 'mild' & Not severe. i think that a vast majority of people would be far better off without medications to begin with.

 

My overall life circumstances aren't easy, but at some stage i think i will try & gradually reduce the medication a bit. i can't afford to get into the state i got in the last time i withdrew from the medication.

 

From the perspective of general diagnostic categories, i think that there is some validity to the main psychiatric diagnostic ranges. People are mentally unwell, psychologically/emotionally disturbed to various degrees & in various ways. There is a spectrum to mental health/illness. People do imo fit general ranges of symptomatology. i would argue best ways of helping people, approaching & healing from it all. i do feel that there are far better, more comprehensive & humane ways of helping people. 

[cpuusage]

It's an odd thing, after decades of battling the system & looking into 'every' critical & anti psychiatry alternative, i have arrived at the conclusion that the schizophrenia diagnosis is valid, & that there is a place for the medication in the treatment of severe psychosis/schizophrenia. i do still very much feel that there are far better & more humane/comprehensive psychological/social support approaches that should be being used, but i have also come to a deeper acceptance of everything around it all.

 

i feel that i need to resolve more the underlying condition before i try reducing the medication, & i don't know how much things are psychogenic, biological, sociological or spiritual/transpersonal? It does seem to be a complex condition.

 

It sometimes feels like it's the medication which is about the main thing helping me keep the degree of stability that i have, & that maintaining the medication has been about the most therapeutic thing over the past 12 years.

 

It's a difficult one. i am however open to discuss things & get other peoples perspectives. Of course ideally i'd like to be successfully medication free, if that is possible to achieve.

[nz11]

From the perspective of general diagnostic categories, i think that there is some validity to the main psychiatric diagnostic ranges.

 

I dont know so much.

The DSM from what i have read appears to fail both in validity and reliability.

 

By following this site and reading the very candid testimonies of those joining this site on a daily basis one cant help but be struck by the number of different psychiatrists people have been driven to see and here's the thing that comes through in spades 'see a different psychiatrist and get a different diagnosis.' Well i am sorry but that is a complete failure of reliability. For a measure /test is considered reliable if on gets the same result repeatedly however anything but is occuring. Furthermore to be valid a measure needs to be reliable, so validity falls over immediately on the failure to be reliable.

 

DSM -III failed a phase II field trial of the redrawn categories. It was unscientific in its methodolgy There was a lack of convincing evidence on the matter of validity. Decker in her 2013 study of DSM III said "its no simple  matter to write about the reliability portion of the trial"

 

DSMIII gave way to a policy of 'syndromal inclusiveness' ie it would ensure that a diagnosis would be given to every patient a psychiatrist saw. Because everyone seen now had a 'mental illness' and not a problem it was a financial boon with insurance companies now coughing up big time. This is what we are seeing right now played out in the local community....ie talk to psychiatrist and you leave with a diagnosis regardless. This is  why Breggin and Gotzsche have said talking to these people is a dangerous thing to do. I totally agree with them.  

[ChessieCat]

And my 12 cents worth (ie 2 cents for each one )

 

Video:  The DSM:  Psychiatry's Deadliest Scam (1 hour 20 minutes)

 

Video:  Dr James Davies:  The Origins of the DSM (35 minutes)

 

Video:  Irving Kirsch:  Emperor's New Drugs:  Antidepressants and the Placebo Effect (1 hour 20 minutes)

 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  We’re Trained To Misinform -The Drugs ARE Dangerous (6 minute video)

Interview:  Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher (51 minutes Gwen Olsen - ex pharmaceutical representative)

 

Video:  Simple Truths About Psychiatry - Series of 10 by Dr Peter Breggin

[cpuusage]

There are various forms of psychiatry & Not all of it is biomedical, some areas take a far more integral paradigm.

 

We don't know enough about all these areas, we don't know enough about the brain & consciousness. We don't know what the aetiology is. It's all very open to debate what people are experiencing & why. There are multiple theories/perspectives that cover biological, psychological, sociological & spiritual/transpersonal areas. 

 

Some people are incredibly depressed. Some people experience severe psychosis. There are ranges & spectrum's of psychological/emotional distress. To various degrees & in various ways people are mentally ill. We can debate why, & best ways of helping such people, best ways of approaching & responding to it all. Maybe in part with some people there is a physiological (biologic) problem. In some cases maybe there is a case for a potential wise use of medication. I don't think that these areas are clear cut. 

 

i would agree that a primary biomedical focus in mental health & emphasis on diagnoses & psycho-pharmacology isn't that helpful on aggregate, but that doesn't mean to say that in some cases it isn't helpful, as part of a more ideal comprehensive approach to care. 

 

This argument & all the different polemics/positions involved has also gone on & on & round & round for hundreds of years.

[scallywag]

Hey cpuusage -- thanks for being open to discussion about psychiatric diagnoses. As you probably know, there are people who have had bad experiences with the psych diagnoses assigned to them and then discover that the symptoms classified as a diagnosis turned out to be drug-induced.  I "get it" -- your understanding of your experience symptoms, situation, and diagnosis are different. Thanks again for being great about how you are posting.

[cpuusage]

Hey cpuusage -- thanks for being open to discussion about psychiatric diagnoses. As you probably know, there are people who have had bad experiences with the psych diagnoses assigned to them and then discover that the symptoms classified as a diagnosis turned out to be drug-induced.  I "get it" -- your understanding of your experience symptoms, situation, and diagnosis are different. Thanks again for being great about how you are posting.

 

Thank you Scallywag, & for understanding. i like this forum & you're a friendly bunch. i'm certainly a great critic of the current system, & there are a lot of problems with it all. It also seems to be very complex areas this all goes into. There is such a wide variety of people & opinions that i have come across over the years. 

 

i very much do feel that there are far better ways more people could be being treated, understood, helped & supported. i do & always have believed that there is the potential for a deep healing, resolution & transformation to all presentations of mental health difficulty/experience.

 

i have made a lot of progress, would also like to be in the position of having continued to progress & more fully resolve certain things.

[cpuusage]

An interesting article on the schizophrenia/medication debate -

 

Rejecting the “Medications for Schizophrenia” Narrative: A Survivor’s Response to Pies and Whitaker -

http://www.madinamerica.com/2016/09/rejecting-the-medications-for-schizophrenia-narrative-a-survivors-response-to-pies-and-whitaker/

This two-part article comes in response to recent debates about the value of antipsychotic drugs for people labeled as “schizophrenic.” Contributions to the debate included Robert Whitaker's white paper “The Case Against Antipsychotics” and Ronald Pies and Joseph Pierre's blog “Quality of Life and the Case for Antipsychotics.”

As a psychiatric survivor who has personally experienced severe psychosis, my responses to these discussions are to emphasize the following points:

    Antipsychotics Are Tranquilizers: We need to be honest about what antipsychotic drugs really are. Most are major tranquilizers – drugs which have a generalized sedating effect and limit the ability to feel emotions strongly. They are not “medications” treating a specific “illness.”

    “Schizophrenia” is a Contested Concept: More clarity will be brought to the drug debate by acknowledging that “schizophrenia” – the supposed target of antipsychotic drugs – is an uncertain, contested concept. Contrary to popular belief, hallucinations, delusions, and inability to function have not been proven to represent a clearly-defined biologically- or genetically-caused illness.

    The Primarily Biological-Genetic Model of “Schizophrenia” is Unproven and Harmful: Research suggests that the predominantly biological model of psychosis taught to psychiatrists leads to pessimism and poorer outcomes. On the other hand, considerable evidence exists to support a predominantly psychosocial model of psychotic states as being expressed through, but not primarily caused by, biology and genes. Viewed in this way, it is apparent that antipsychotic tranquilizers cannot directly address the experiences of trauma, isolation and abuse that often underlie delusions, hallucinations, and paranoia.

    Effective Alternative Approaches Exist: Hope-inspiring and effective approaches for transforming the lives of severely psychotic people are already available, such as the Hearing Voices Network and the Open Dialogue Approach. With such alternatives becoming more widely researched and available, one must question the value of pouring billions of dollars into continued biological research on “schizophrenia” – research which has thus far yielded no measurable improvement in the lives of psychotic people.

Active Links in Link.

[cpuusage]

An interesting article on the schizophrenia/medication debate -

 

Rejecting the “Medications for Schizophrenia” Narrative: A Survivor’s Response to Pies and Whitaker -

 

http://www.madinamerica.com/2016/09/rejecting-the-medications-for-schizophrenia-narrative-a-survivors-response-to-pies-and-whitaker/

 

Then of course there's the other side to the debate -

 

http://www.humanillnesses.com/Behavioral-Health-Ob-Sea/Schizophrenia.html

 

"Schizophrenia (SKIT-zo-FREE-ni-a) is a complex, serious, and chronic brain disorder. It results from disruptions in the structure and function of the brain and neurotransmitter pathways of the central nervous system. These disruptions may cause psychotic symptoms, which are frightening distortions in thoughts, feelings, moods, perceptions, and behavior that interfere with daily life. With the correct combination of medication and therapy, the symptoms of schizophrenia often can be managed effectively."

[cpuusage]

http://www.curediseases.info/8-genetically-distinct-disorders-and-schizophrenia/

 

Read the above article yesterday. There's a medical consensus that schizophrenia is at least primarily in part a biological condition - a genetic, brain developmental/functional disorder. People also acknowledge environmental variables. People also claim that psychological support can also help with aspects of the experiences, & some also claim that there are spiritual/transpersonal aspects to it all. As far as i can square things i think it's a whole person condition, that crosses biological, psychological, sociological & spiritual/transpersonal areas.

 

The whole thing confuses me. i need to draft another letter & go back to see the GP (doc) to discuss things.

 

i wish that there were more categorical tests & better treatment.

 

i'm too concerned about the possible withdrawal effects & the underlying condition to attempt another withdrawal at this stage, especially given the context of my history.

[cpuusage]

An interesting recent comment to an older Hickey article -

The Dopamine Hypothesis of Schizophrenia – Version III

http://behaviorismandmentalhealth.com/2015/01/28/the-dopamine-hypothesis-of-schizophrenia-version-iii

"Although this article is mainly on Langford's reaction, it seems you are really downplaying the Howes and Kapur paper's claims that environmental factors and socio-cultural experiences are vital to the eventual manifestation of schizophrenia. In fact, when they explicitly list the novel aspects of dopamine iii, they say "Third, dopamine dysregulation is linked to 'psychosis' rather than schizophrenia, and perhaps in the fullness of time it will be about 'psychosis proneness.' The exact diagnosis, however, reflects the nature of the hits coupled with sociocultural factors and not the dopamine dysfunction per se." Maybe this was discussed more in the above article and I just missed it. Either way, I'd say the majority of clinical researchers I know in schizophrenia research ( I'm basic science) like dopamine iii precisely because it says that dopamine dysfunction does NOT CAUSE schizophrenia or psychosis, but rather is a molecular-level manifestation that arises from multiple risk factors, to which environmental and social experiences are central."

[JanCarol]

Hey CPUusage - 

 

You wrote:

 

Hi. Thanks for the reply. i was in severe psychosis & with a lot of difficulties before i came into contact with psychiatry & psychiatric drug treatments. It seems impossible to really separate out what is an underlying condition from drug withdrawal effects, but i don't doubt that there is an underlying condition. There are also so many theories, perspectives & understandings to mental health.

 

This sounds like classic "spiritual emergency" stuff to me.  Shamanic death, Dark Night of the Soul.  https://beyondmeds.com/2013/04/17/embracing-the-dark-night/

 

Please see the excellent video series at:  https://www.youtube.com/user/bipolarorwakingup - while his story is one of being diagnosed "bipolar," the things he describes as happening to him while he was in his spiritual emergency state will sound very familiar, maybe even resonant for you.  

 

It is my belief that these extreme states are a healthy way of dealing with cognitive & emotional dissonance - where what you've been brought up to believe is challenged by new realities.  They take the form of "delusions," "hallucinations," and extreme emotions, because our subconscious doesn't have words.  Our sub and unconscious think in images, stories, song and dance.  When we were a tribe, we would dance them out, and the shaman would interpret them for us, and we would heal.  Maybe our dance was profound enough that we would become shamans, too.  But the only way into that healing, is through it, not through repressing it.

 

It is said on pop psychology pages, that the RD Laing experiment of letting the "schizophrenics" run wild, was a "failure," but it was certainly more humane than shackles, ECT, lobotomies and restraints for those whose minds were in a place that outsiders could not understand.

 

The best treatment seems to have been the Quakers, who would have lay people listen, just listen, and take care of the body of the person in emergency.  Feed them, let them rest, get them sunshine & gentle exercise - and listen.  Always listen, and let the words come out and heal the mind and soul of the person experiencing these extreme states.

 

Unfortunately, this is the opposite of what our system does.

 

I listen to a series called "Shades of Awakening," which discusses the line between "illness" and "spirituality."  Perhaps you will find it interesting, too:  http://shadesofawakening.com/

 

Additionally, there is a group of people in the Netherlands who question the very diagnosis of schizophrenia, and offer that psychosis is a temporary state, that will heal in healthy conditions:  https://www.schizofreniebestaatniet.nl/schizophrenia-does-it-exist-or-not/

 

Certainly, many of the studies that Robert Whitaker points to, indicate that in the old days, before the neuroleptic drugs, people healed more spontaneously and went back into society after resolving the conflict on their own.  And that it is the drugging of the condition which seems to drive it deeper, make it chronic.

 

You wrote:

 

http://www.curedisea...-schizophrenia/

 

Read the above article yesterday. There's a medical consensus that schizophrenia is at least primarily in part a biological condition - a genetic, brain developmental/functional disorder. People also acknowledge environmental variables. People also claim that psychological support can also help with aspects of the experiences, & some also claim that there are spiritual/transpersonal aspects to it all. As far as i can square things i think it's a whole person condition, that crosses biological, psychological, sociological & spiritual/transpersonal areas.

 

 

Whitaker points out in his excellent "Anatomy of an Epidemic" that efforts to prove schizophrenia's "biological basis" is often based on drugged patients, thus proving that their brains are different - but only because of the treatment, not because of the illness.  The ability to find "non-drugged schizophrenics" is limited, and skews a lot of the statistics to make it look more definitive than it really is.

 

This is, of course, a simplified summary - you would do better to read Whitaker's book for yourself and see if it correlates with your experience.

 

Of course, there will always be some who will need the drugs.  But we are all channeled into the same pharma superhighways, with poor exit ramps.  What if, instead of neuroleptics, you had been given tranquilizers and allowed to sleep for 6 weeks while someone listened to you, and took care of your body (food, helps with walking & hygiene).  We used to use that path to healing, but that road has been abandoned for the newer "shinier" highways that are easier for doctors and staff to manage, with less labour, less infrastructure (beds, meals, etc.).

 

I posted it elsewhere, on your Mystical Psychosis thread, but you may enjoy more links like these, here: 

 

Alternatives for Psychotic Outbreaks

 

www.isps.org

 

Welcome to SA!  I'm already enjoying the voice you are bringing to our community!

[JanCarol]

Hey CPUusage - you may also enjoy our Music thread!

 

I am on a silent laptop today, so cannot investigate your musical gems, but appreciate them, and you may find this a delightful pool to swim in:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7839-music-what-music-helps-you-put-it-here/

[cpuusage]

Hi Jan

 

Thank you for the reply.

 

Yes, i am aware of all that information. i have been reading & researching these areas at a lot of depth for years.

 

i don't want to go into a long critique & be negative with any of it, & in essence i do agree with you.

 

The difficulty for me has been the severity of multiple episodes of very severe psychosis & lack of access to such more comprehensive alternatives. Whatever i tried, the last 3 times i stopped the medication i ended up in very severe psychosis & it has been a lesser of evils, all things considered to take a low dose of one neuroleptic medication. i don't want to be on this medication, but i seem to be utterly dependent on it. 

 

i do feel that it is incredibly complex areas regarding the nature of individual cases, best treatment approaches, psychiatry & medication. i don't think it is clear cut. Yes with a more ideal system far more people could be helped to genuine wellness, but i also feel that a certain percentage of people would still need other medical help/support.

 

i am currently working with a friend who is a highly trained therapist & shamanic healer, & i will see what transpires with it all. i feel that i need to more fully work through things & create more support in my life before i consider another medication withdrawal attempt. Overall circumstances are also very difficult.

[cpuusage]

It's been a very hard couple of months, but some things are starting to improve a little.

[JanCarol]

Hey Cpuusage- 

 

Did you get to the healer?  Were you able to unravel some of your emergence?

 

I hope you see the Sun today.

[cpuusage]

Hey Cpuusage- 

 

Did you get to the healer?  Were you able to unravel some of your emergence?

 

I hope you see the Sun today.

 

Hi. i have been working with a new healer & it is going well. i've been dedicated to a spiritual/healing path for the past 15 years & have always been interested in spirituality.

 

So much has gone on - there were 7 major episodes of very severe/extreme psychosis totalling around 8 years in florid psychosis. i was also in addiction/alcoholism for 17 years. Was forced hospitalised 4 times & spent in total a year in psychiatric hospital. i have been treated with psychiatric drugs for some 26 years. 

 

i don't think that any of it is easy to sort out. Maybe if there had been a more appropriate response to the original severe/extreme state of mind, then things may of been different, but there wasn't. Ever since the last major psychotic breakdown i have partly accepted the schizophrenia diagnosis & need for a low dose of neuroleptic medication. i can't see that i'll ever now get off it. 

 

i started some separate threads/topics on here for discussion & they were all merged into one thread, making them nonsensical. i don't know that this forum is appropriate for me?

 

i've been posting on-line for some 12 years trying to have more open discussion on all these areas, i often get banned from a lot of places & come under a lot of personal attack. i've had enough of it all, & am taking more of a step back from on-line activities.

 

Maybe if i'd been born on the North American Plains or Amazonian Jungle in another time, then i may have been a very powerful Shaman, but i wasn't, i was born in Western Capitalist/Consumer/Neoliberal bullsh*t land.

[cpuusage]

There has never seemed to be the appropriate help/support to deal with what comes up in psychosis & with what happens when i stop the medication, however i have tried. Most people are terrified of genuine madness, & in the past i was always sectioned under the mental health act & hospitalised & forced drugs. There's isn't anywhere to go to deal with what comes up in medication withdrawal, & i have to still live & function in this society independently with the stresses & difficulties of my circumstances. It wasn't all some 'mild' depression/anxiety that i trotted off to get pills from the Doctor from - it's was very extreme/severe states of psychosis/madness. Some people resolve it all, but it's Not many in this society who have experienced a similar severity of things & more extreme end of the spectrum.

 

Re-framing it all as a spiritual emergence or shamanic crisis etc, i'm Not sure is entirely accurate for the nature of what i have experienced/been through & difficulties that i have had/have.