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JohnDoe

JohnDoe: Struggling

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JohnDoe   
JohnDoe

Hello all. 

 

Ive just joined as I am desperate for advice. I am in a pretty bad shape at the moment after quitting Mirtazapine 12 days ago.

 

My history is - prescribed 15mg of Mirtazapine for Insomnia and weight loss due to nausea. Took one tablet the first night and was like a zombie the next day. That said, I did sleep for 12 hours. Because of this experience, I decided to cut the tablet in half and take 7.5mg each night. This resulted in a decent sleep and an appetite like a horse, anything and everything was eaten! So, after a week at 7.5mg I decided to cut down again and quartered the tablet to (approx) 3.75mg. These I took over the next 8 weeks with a reasonable sleep pattern and restored appetite.

 

12 days ago, believing that the Mirtazapines work was done, I quit cold turkey. I believed that the low dose and shortness of time on them would be no problem for me. How wrong I was!

 

After 4 days off them I started to wake around 4am with nervousness. Not panic but a definite 'wired' feeling. This wears off as the day goes on and has generally subsided by evening time. The only other problem was a bad headache which, again, subsided as the day progressed.

 

After a week off them I added head tightness and chest and back pains. I have recently undergone extensive heart investigations and have passed with no problems in that area so can only assume this is from withdrawal too. I am also aware that I am repeatedly clamping my jaw shut tight which is exasperating the neck and back pain and increasing the headache. 

 

I suppose what I am after is reassurance that what I am experiencing is actually withdrawal? Is the headache, nervousness, clamping of jaw and chest/back pain typical? I am struggling to accept that such a tiny dose for a short time would leave me in this situation but, if I am convinced it is, than I will have the encouragement to stick with it and not succumb to taking them again (or is that what I should do?). I'm lost, please help.

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JohnDoe   
JohnDoe

Also, the symptoms have gradually intensified from that point onwards instead of easing at all. If this is withdrawal when could I reasonably expect to see some improvement? I suppose, being honest, the lack of improvement over the past 12 days is what has shot my confidence to bits.

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herewego   
herewego

Hi JohnDoe,

A moderator will be along before too long to help you with your questions. Because you have not been off your medication too long you could probably re-instate at a smaller amount to relieve your withdrawal symptoms and then after you stabilize for a couple months or more, you could begin a slow taper. Best of luck to you.

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Shep   
Shep

Hi, JohnDoe.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

As herewego mentioned, a reinstatement may help. Here is some information on doing so:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms 

 

Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

I see in your signature you are also taking a PPI, Lansoprazole. Since you were already on the PPI well before going on an antidepressant, I have to wonder if your insomnia and nausea were possibly caused by the PPI. These drugs are notorious for causing people to not be able to absorb key nutrients, such as B vitamins.

 

I don't know if you are interested in coming off your PPI, but I'm going to give the link so you can read and get more information about it:

 

Tips for tapering off stomach acid blockers or PPIs...

 

We have a number of members tapering PPIs due to the side effects that many times caused them to need psychiatric drugs, so it's worth researching. 

 

Here is some information about what to expect during withdrawal:

 

What is withdrawal syndrome

 

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

Here are some non-drug resources to help deal with insomnia:

 

 

Sleep problems - That Awful Withdrawal Insomnia

 

 

I'm trying to get an accurate look at your history with Mirtazapine. Please let me know if this is correct:

  • Took 15 mg Mirtazapine for one night and found it too sedating
  • Reduced to 7.5 mg for one week
  • Reduced to 3.75 mg 
  • Quit cold turkey at 3.75 mg after 8 weeks, for a total of 9 weeks on Mirtazapine

 

I'm not sure what would be the best reinstatement dose, so I'm going to ask the more senior moderators to weigh in, in case you do decide to reinstate and do a slow taper. In the meantime, please read over the links. 

 

Please use this thread to list your symptoms, ask questions, and provide updates. I'm glad you found us for support and information. 

 

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Shep   
Shep

One more tip, John. You may wish to talk to your dentist about getting a nightguard for your teeth. The jaw clenching can cause teeth grinding which can do massive damage to your teeth during withdrawal.

 

Although getting one through your dentist is the best way, many drug stores also sell them.

 

Many of us have to get dental work done due to bruxism (teeth grinding) due to withdrawal, so this is just a tip I like to pass on. 

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JohnDoe   
JohnDoe

Many thanks for the replies, I will have a good read through the links.

 

Your summary of my drug history is correct, a total of nine weeks on mirtazapine.

 

I'm teetering on the edge of reinstating but, if I did, I don't know what dose to take as I can't accurately cut the tablet beyond 3.75mg. Also, having been off nearly 2 weeks, I am at that point where it might only be a short time longer before I pull through to the other side.

 

I do want to quit the Lansoprazole and that is my intention once off Mirtazapine. I have been so dependent on it when I probably don't need it any longer. It's also causing me joint and muscle aches which are really clouding the withdrawal symptoms as well.

 

Many thanks for the links, I will have a good read up.

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ChessieCat   
ChessieCat

To get lower doses please see the information in the Tips for Tapering Remeron under the following headings in Post #1 (just below the last quote box within the post):

 

Reduce by splitting tablets

Reduce by titrating a liquid


Have a compounding pharmacy make a liquid for tapering
 

Reduce by making a liquid with the "orally disintegrating" tablets

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Altostrata   
Altostrata

Welcome, John.

 

Yes, you are having withdrawal symptoms. Since they're not getting better, it's likely you are a person who doesn't bounce back quickly from dosage reductions.

 

If I were you, I would reinstate 3.75mg, via the liquid technique described in Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

Why are you taking the PPI?

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JohnDoe   
JohnDoe

Am 2 weeks in today and still not improved. Have numerous aches in muscles of my arms, legs and back and a headache from hell which I can't shift. Add to that swollen salivary glands and burning eyes and blurred vision, is this all normal or do I have more than one thing going on here? I suppose I just need the reassurance to make me carry on.

 

Altostrata, I am on the PPI for excess acid. I have a small hiatus hernia which has caused me no end of trouble so the doctors put me on them to see if it helped. I have been on higher doses than 15mg in the past but have suffered side effects. I seem to be able to take 15mg but any more and I get joint pain, dizziness etc. I appear to be ultra sensitive to all medication which is probably why I am suffering at the moment. I want to come off the PPI but won't until I am off the mirtazapine and stable. My goal is to be med free so that I can see what my body is telling me and not medication.

 

I'm still holding off the reinstatement hoping I wake up one day with an improvement. I'm still of the mind set that the last two weeks will be wasted if I give in now. However, as i seem to be deteriorating instead of improving, it's becoming more likely that I will reinstate.

 

Is it normal to doubt what you are going through? There are so many different symptoms going on with my body right now that I am questioning if it is all down to such a tiny tablet. Is there a list of all the withdrawal symptoms people have suffered that I could compare with? I am starting to worry that I have other issues running alongside it. I keep thinking how bad this must be for those on much higher doses.

 

Many thanks for all your advice and I will persevere and let you know how I get on.

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ChessieCat   
ChessieCat

Check out this symptom checklist:  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

And these links might help too:

 

Brain Remodelling


Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?


How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

 

Please remember Alto's suggested dose:  "If I were you, I would reinstate 3.75mg, via the liquid technique described in Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)"

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JohnDoe   
JohnDoe

Thanks for the links. I've been reading up on everything and it gives me some confidence that what I am experiencing is normal.

 

I've been having a bad day today, worse than I felt yesterday. I'm trying to work out what I have done differently in the last 24 hours to cause this. The only thing different was devouring some cough sweets to try and clear sinuses and ease the sore throat. Would uppng my sugar intake cause worsening dizziness, headache and chest/arm muscle tenderness? If not, does withdrawal come in waves - good days bad days? At a loss explaining this. Only other thing I've done is uses some magnesium oil to see if the aches are down to deficiency.

 

Been experimenting with making a liquid out of a 15mg tablet. Not gone back on them yet but making sure I can achieve low doses reliably before/in case I need to.

 

Main thing is, my mind is strong and I'm determined to kick these one way or another!

 

Thanks again

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Shep   
Shep

Hi, John. You mentioned taking "cough sweets" and asking about the sugar intake in relation to worsening symptoms. Yes, sugar definitely can ramp up symptoms for those of us with destabilized nervous systems. I had to cut out sugar 2 years ago because of this, and it helped quite a bit. 

 

Also, was there any type of cough medicine in the cough drops? Even a small amount of cough medicine can ramp up symptoms with a destabilized nervous system. 

 

And simply being sick, even with a mild cold, can stress the CNS.

 

This link may explain more about what happens when any form of stress - be it chemical or stress related - does to the CNS:

 

Limbic Kindling -- Hardwiring the brain for hypersensitivity

 

I hope your cough is gone and you're feeling better this weekend. 

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JohnDoe   
JohnDoe

Hi Shep, thanks for the response.

 

The cough sweets had nothing too potent in them, only menthol crystals and eucalyptus oil together with the usual glucose etc etc. I've googled for any obvious interactions but can't find any.

 

I have a very sweet tooth (increased by mirtazapine) and this has not abated since coming off them. I've had waning appetite in the first week but it now seems to be healthy again. I tend to eat far too much sugar products so will cut them right back in light of what you have said. Am I right in thinking that sugar could be causing my aches? I think it is inflammatory isn't it?

 

My muscle aches have increased greatly over the past 3 days and the headache has intensified also. I was hoping to see some relief if honest as it will be 3 weeks in a couple of days but not so far. I have had the dry throat and running eyes so took the cough sweets as it felt like a cold. I'm now leaning towards it just being withdrawal effects.

 

I have set myself a deadline for reinstatement - tomorrow evening. If tomorrow shows no sign of changing for the better then I am going back on my last dose, 3.75mg before bed. I can't keep going on aimlessly hoping for the end to come. It will feel like a bit of a failure if honest but I don't think I have much choice. I have two young boys who I need to be able to care for and, at the moment, thats not ideal.

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Shep   
Shep

Yes, it could be too much sugar. Like you wrote, sugar is inflammatory.

 

But it could be withdrawal that's causing your symptoms. It's very difficult to tell withdrawal from a lot of other things, including colds. 

 

A lot of us deal with congestion during withdrawal, as certain psych drugs - including mirtazapine -  affect histamine levels. 

 

Please don't confuse reinstatement with any type of weakness. This is about your body's level of dependency, and that has nothing to do with willpower. It's best to save your strength to take care of your young children. 

 

Going back to 3.75 mg as Alto and Chessie suggested sounds like a very reasonable and practical way to address your symptoms. 

 

Please keep us updated. 

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JohnDoe   
JohnDoe

Well, I relented two nights ago and reinstated on 3.75mg. I took the same dose last night and am now waiting with fingers crossed that I can stabilise at that dose before looking at doing a slow taper. There is no sign of any let up in my aches and pains as yet and I have the dizziness and headache that goes with starting Mirtazapine. I am hoping that I will settle down in the next couple of days.

 

In the meantime, my joint/muscle aches have increased in intensity and they are getting quite debilitating now. I have been doing some searching on the internet (as we tend to do and then cause us more anxiety!) and came across a couple of articles on Histamine causing joint and muscle pain. I found this particularly interesting as I have a mild nut allegy (only pistacchios, pine and cashew) so am aware of what histamine is capable of causing. I know that Mirtazapine is a strong antihistamine so am assuming that when you come off them the histamine is allowed to flow again and, presumably, rebounds a bit? If that is the case then maybe it is that that is affecting my joints and muscles. I will do some more research on this but, in the meantime, has anyone any pointers for me or experience of similar?

 

To add insult to injury, I am very fond of peanuts in all guises and eat quite a lot of them. I have, since coming off the mirtazapine, modified my diet in respect of sugar etc but have continued to eat my normal high quantity of peanuts. It would appear that I may quite possibly have been the victim of my own doing here! I shall hold off any further nuts and other high histamine foods until I have worked out an answer to all this.

 

Last question, would adding a strong dose of anti-histamine daily be worthwhile? I am reluctant to add anything at the moment, even nutritional supplements, in case I upset anything else. In short, I'm treading in the dark on all this and floundering at the moment but can see the logic in anti histamine.

 

Many thanks

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KarenB   
KarenB

It can take 4 days for a dose to settle in properly, so hang in there for a bit more.  I know .... the waiting isn't nice. 

 

I don't have personal experience of anti-histamines, but there is useful info here:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/505-antihistamines-and-what-to-use-for-allergy-relief/.  Sounds like it's generally not a good idea.  Your instinct to keep things simple is a good one. 

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JohnDoe   
JohnDoe

Quick update :

 

I have been back on 3.75mg for 11 days now and seem to have finally stabilised. I still have the aches and pains but they have eased off slightly so I shall continue holding here for the time being and see if they ease more in time.

 

I have been cutting back on sugar based items so that might also be a reason for the aches to subside, either way, I'm just happy they are going as they were the most debilitating aspect for me.

 

My plan is to convert my tablets to liquid form and taper very slowly. I'm planning 3.5mg for a week, 3.25mg then 3mg then 2.75mg etc etc. I would take each dose for a week and see how it goes. If I start to suffer on a dose then I will hold tight until settled/go back up a dose. Does that sound like a reasonable plan or should I go slower/less cut in dose?

 

Many thanks

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AliG   
AliG

Hi John. It would be best to hold and stabilize now for an extended period of time. It is too early yet to think about tapering but when you do we recommend the 10 % tapering method.

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

It's important to properly stabilize and then at some point when you are ready to taper slowly. Please have a read through these links:

Why taper? Paper demonstrates importance of gradual change in plasma concentration

 

The slowness of slow tapers

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3949-stabilizing-after-a-reduction-what-does-that-mean/

 

It's best in the long run not to rush this taper. You have responsibilities and going slowly through this process will hopefully give you the optimal chance of going forward with minimal symptoms and high functionality in your life.

 

That is the ultimate goal.

Ali

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JohnDoe   
JohnDoe

Hi All.

 

Well I'm still surviving and have finally seen all the aches subside, they have not gone completely but certainly are more acceptable now. I have dissolved my 15mg tablet in water and am using a 0.1mg syringe to make sure I get an accurate dose daily,

 

I have slowly tapered down from 3.75mg at a rate of .25mg every two weeks. I started on 3.25mg two nights ago.

 

I seem to suffer mild anxiety, and find myself clenching my teeth firmly, starting about 2 days after adjusting my dose. These symptoms usually last for a couple of days before settling down again. They are not debilitating, just annoying and a reminder to me of what would be if I went too quick. I know the recommended reduction is 10% but I want to get down to 3mg reasonably quickly and then see where I am. I will then reduce at 10% and not adjust doses for at least 2 weeks. I am always happy to go back up a dose if its too much as I only want to get off this drug and am happy to take as long as it takes so long as it results in getting off.

 

Are the mild anxiety, bruxism, nausea and headache typical symptoms of the taper? I am sure they are as they appear regularly with a dose cut. If I cut the dose by less each time would they still appear or would they stop/be milder? At the moment I can handle them but if they get worse then I want to know how to confront them. I naively thought that I wouldn't suffer any problems with such a low cut.

 

I avoided the antihistamine route. You very kindly suggested I stay clear and I took your advice. I really didn't want to add any more medications into the mix. By the way, I also didn't start the taper of Lansoprazole. For the same reason, I am holding off adjusting that until I am off the Mirtazapine.

 

Many Thanks

 

John

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scallywag   
scallywag

You may want to hold for a bit longer after your reductions or reduce by less than 0.25 mg.

 

We suggest that people make dose reductions calculated as a percentage of their current dose. The arithmetic is slightly more work than deducting the same amount each time.

 

You've written that you are at 3.25 mg and your most recent reduction was 0.25, about 7.1% less than the previous dose of 3.5 mg.

 

The arithmetic using 8% for the next few reductions:

3.25 * (100% - 8%)= 3.25 * (92%) = 3.00

3.00 * 92% = 2.75

2.76 * 92% = 2.53

2.53 * 92% = 2.36

 

As the dose decreases, the % reduced is the same but the mg reduction decreases. This approach does take longer to get to 0 mg but generally yields an easier "ride" and landing.

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JohnDoe   
JohnDoe

Thanks for the reply Scallywag, much appreciated and thanks for the calculations for tapering. Makes sense to me and I shall follow that formula.

 

I can't believe how so little of a drug can cause such effects in a person. I am grateful to Mirtazapine for sorting out the insomnia and appetite but think its a bit like taking a sledge hammer to crack a nut. I only wish i had explored other avenues instead.

 

I'm sat here, on my third day after a dose change, with anxiety, jaws firmly clenched, a raging headache and stomach pain. Hey ho, at least I know what the cause is and that gives me the strength to carry on.

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JohnDoe   
JohnDoe

Hi all

 

Been a while since I last wrote and, up until now, I have been doing fine. I have tapered down successfully from 3.75mg without any side effects that would be worth commentating on. However, my latest cut down to 2.75mg occurred on Wednesday 7th December and, for some reason, I am suffering problems. I have terrible gastritis which is causing back pain and heartburn, I have slight anxiety, am clenching my teeth together tightly, have the headache from hell back and restlessness. These all seem familiar to me from my previous attempts to quit cold turkey so I'm guessing these are them back again. I have to admit to being somewhat down about it as I have been going so slowly and thought I had cracked it this time. 

 

What is the best course of action for me now? Do I ride this one out and see if it settles or do I return to the higher dose of 3mg again to stabilise?

 

Many Thanks

 

John

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Bayboy   
Bayboy

John,

 

Firstly, I think you made the right decision back in October to reinstate, and have had some success, but trust me when I tell you, you seem to be rushing things. 10% is a great tapering rate, but I've found in my experience with Mirt that one has to hold in between doses a considerable amount of time. I started with 3-4 weeks in the beginning but have extended to 6-8 weeks as the dose decreases and this, for the most part, minimizes symptoms and makes me very functional. Sometimes, as of late, even a long slow hold can cause issues and then I hold longer. I have up dosed a couple of times, but only when symptoms became unbearable...ie, complete insomnia.

 

So, IMO, I would wait longer to see if things settle down, and then slow, slow, slow. Those who taper slowly and accept the process as it is, remain functional and have much higher rates of success. I have resigned myself to this fact, this is a long journey but I normally feel quite well so I am in no rush.

 

Hope that helps, hang in there

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Shep   
Shep

Hi, John.

 

Thanks for the update.

 

Are your symptoms worse than they were here on November 21? 

 

 

I'm sat here, on my third day after a dose change, with anxiety, jaws firmly clenched, a raging headache and stomach pain. Hey ho, at least I know what the cause is and that gives me the strength to carry on.

 

 

 

How long did it take after you posted this for these symptoms to clear up? 

 

It's only been 4 days since your last cut, but without knowing your previous symptom pattern, it's hard to advise. 

 

I would wait to updose, though, as it takes a minimum of 4 days to a week for your CNS to adjust to a new dosage.

 

You may also want to consider a micro taper, as this is a gentler way to go:

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases


Decreasing your dosage by very tiny amounts more often might be more tolerable than 5% or 10% decreases. Know your symptom pattern first so you can estimate how often you can reduce.

 

As Bayboy wisely stated, those who go slowly generally have an easier time of it.

 

Please continue to let us know how you're doing. 

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scallywag   
scallywag

Shep has suggested a micro-taper. Brassmonkey has been tapering for several years now and has come up with a version of a micro-taper that works well for him and others. We call it the brassmonkey slide:

  • Determine how large a dose reduction you want to make, let's use 8%.
  • Divide the total reduction by 4, so 8% / 4 = 2%.
  • Make 4 weekly reductions of 2%
  • Hold at the last dose for 3 weeks.

Example:

current dose = 2.75 mg,

8% total decrease for the cycle,

end dose = 2.53 mg

total mg decrease = 0.22 mg

weekly mg decrease = 0.055 mg

doses over a 6-week cycle, each number is a week

  1. 2.70 mg (2.695)
  2. 2.64 mg (2.640)
  3. 2.59 mg (2.585)
  4. 2.53 mg (2.530)
  5. 2.53
  6. 2.53
  7. If symptoms are tolerable or non-existent, start new cycle to reduce from 2.53. If symptoms persist at an intolerable level, hold until they diminish.

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JohnDoe   
JohnDoe

Hi all, thanks for the quick replies.

 

Bayboy - thanks for the encouragement. I probably knew I was going too fast if I'm honest. Put it down to just wanting off the Mirt too eagerly. I shall be holding here and seeing what happens, I'm in no rush to reinstate higher unless its really necessary.

 

Shep - the symptoms I'm suffering are no worse than those on 21st November, probably somewhat less if I'm honest. I think they feel worse due to the disappointment I feel after having felt so good up till now. I really did think I had truly found the road off without any aggravation so its knocked my confidence back a bit. The micro taper is something that I am now seriously considering so thank you for making me aware of it.

 

Scallywag - thanks for the calculations, that makes it easier to understand and helps a great deal. At the moment, the syringe I have been using for my taper has 0.25mg markings so I will need to source a more accurate one. Not sure how receptive our pharmacists are to providing one.

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JohnDoe   
JohnDoe

Just a quick question please - When I liquify my 15mg Mirtazapine tablet it leaves a trace of sludge in the bottom of the container I use. I always shake the container vigorously before drawing my dose but I wonder if these larger particles are larger concentrations of Mirtazapine or are they just remnant of the capsule make up? I am asking as I am starting to suffer the joint aches again and think it may be down to 'inconsistent' doses due to the above reason. I'm currently still on 2.75mg and am holding here hoping to stabilise soon.

 

Would be interested to hear anyones views.

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JohnDoe   
JohnDoe

Ok, things have changed a bit for me, I am still holding at 2.75mg but am suffering somewhat. The anxiety is constant and the jaw clenching is as bad as it has ever been. The muscle and joint aches that I experienced after going off cold turkey are back as is the headache from hell and dizziness. The only good thing with all this is that I know what it is this time - withdrawal symptoms. I realise I have reduced too much and too soon. 

 

The decision I now have to make is whether to ride this out for longer and see if things stabilise on my current dose of 2.75mg or to up dose back to 3mg and hold for some considerable time before micro tapering as kindly suggested by Shep. My thoughts on that is that it has been over a week and each day has seen a deterioration as opposed to an improvement so I am beginning to favour the up dose option. Regardless, if/when I stabilise, I will be micro tapering from then on, I am obviously adverse to too large a decrease by the 5-10% route.

 

As all of you will appreciate, the time of year is causing me an added concern which is compounding the anxious/unsettled feeling. I have just short of a week in which to hopefully find some relief/stabilisation, no matter how small, so as not to be a 'party pooper' for my young sons over the Christmas period. It is that which is driving me towards the up dose option as I know I was fine on 3mg (although I know it might not be so next time!)

 

Here's hoping for some relief, I welcome anyones thoughts please.

 

John

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Bayboy   
Bayboy

JD,

 

I can appreciate your current struggle. These are just my thoughts on your situation. Yes, you have tapered too rapidly and your CNS is trying to catch up, only time can rectify that. I have held for significant time periods for symptoms to settle down as have others on this site, and for me, they eventually always do.

 

Even if you were to up dose, the brain would need time to re-adjust again, so as you roll into Dec 25, you still might be experiencing symptoms anyway. Of course, I support either decision you make, but in time, if you support your system with some of the many tips in this forum, things will settle down. Earlier, I told you that I have only ever up dosed when symptoms became unbearable and I have reached my threshold. Recently, my sleep architecture went awry and took 2 weeks to sort itself out. It was brutal, but I could function, so here we are, sleep has improved again and I've done nothing but wait.

 

Remember, there is a huge psychological component to this as well, the stress of being stable for your loved ones can exacerbate the symptoms you are experiencing, but they are just thoughts, nothing more. As hard as it sounds, try to lean into it, and go with the experience . You may be very surprised that things work out just fine. This process is never linear, so tomorrow or next week can always be better without us having done anything.

 

Sorry for rambling, but I hope this helps

 

BB

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JohnDoe   
JohnDoe

Thanks Bayboy, makes perfect sense. I shall hold for the foreseeable future and see how it pans out. If it deteriorates to a point where life becomes unbearable then I will consider returning to a 3mg dose. 

 

Can I ask, what are your thoughts on the 'sludge' that is left when you liquify a tablet? I shake the mixture up before drawing the dose out but question whether I am getting an even dose if this sludge keeps returning to the bottom of the container. I'm hoping it only consists of the tablets coating and other agents required for its make up and not concentrated Mirtazapine. 

 

Regards

 

John

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Flowers   
Flowers

Hi JD

 

I am glad you have decided to stick with the current dose. The pressure we are under this time of year to make everything perfect and happy can make us prone to a wobble anyway. I agree with Bayboys advice. Your sons will love having you around and hopefully are young enough not to really understand how you may be feeling.

 

 

 

I am tapering too and make up my solution in a syringe 24 hours before I take it. Most of the tablet usually dissolves but there can be sediment. It needs a really good shake and  I am usually shaking the syringe right up until I draw off what I need straight into my mouth. That way there is nothing lost in transferring to another vessel.

 

 

This is just a suggestion and I am happy to help you in anyway I can.

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JohnDoe   
JohnDoe

Thanks Flowers, am holding tight and gritting my teeth (literally!)

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AliG   
AliG

Hi John. It would be best to hold and stabilize now for an extended period of time. It is too early yet to think about tapering but when you do we recommend the 10 % tapering method.

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

It's important to properly stabilize and then at some point when you are ready to taper slowly. Please have a read through these links:

Why taper? Paper demonstrates importance of gradual change in plasma concentration

 

The slowness of slow tapers

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3949-stabilizing-after-a-reduction-what-does-that-mean/

 

It's best in the long run not to rush this taper. You have responsibilities and going slowly through this process will hopefully give you the optimal chance of going forward with minimal symptoms and high functionality in your life.

 

That is the ultimate goal.

Ali

I think you have been rushing it.  I told you then and I reiterate that you have been going too fast.  Please slow down.

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JohnDoe   
JohnDoe

Hello All

 

Its been a while since I was last on here and, I'm pleased to say, things have been going reasonably fine as a whole.

 

I have continued with tapering and am currently at 2.25mg. I last dose changed 3 weeks ago and, apart from the occasional slight anxious feeling for a day or two after changing, I have been free of any other effects. Especially pleased to say that the muscular/joint aches and pains have been absent (apart from unrelated cracks and twinges which we all get now and again).

 

However, a week ago my son came home with a bad cold which managed to run riot through the whole family. This cold has now more or less passed but has left me suffering again from what I am thinking are withdrawal symptoms. I had minor joint and muscle aches at the height of the cold but, instead of easing now it has passed, these joint issues have continued and are now progressing to become debilitating again. They started in my elbows (as a form of tendinitis) and progressed to my wrists, hands, 

knees and then toes. They have, in the last two days, included my shoulder joints and upper mid back. I suffered muscular and joint pain in my previous attempts to quit Mirtazapine but have not had any since on my current tapering program. Needless to say, its left me a bit down hearted and despondent. I also have a prickling of the skin sensation at times on my legs and torso and numbness and tingling of my lower legs and feet, as if there is a circulation problem.

 

The reason for posting this today is to ask if the cold virus would have set these problems off? As the taper has been fine up to this point and I have changed nothing in the way I am conducting it, I am thinking this may be withdrawal set back in? My second question is, what do you suggest I do? Do I ride it out and see if it settles or do I step back to the previous dose of 2.5mg?

 

Thanks in advance for any replies. I am worrying that this is an autoimmune disorder that is totally seperate from the Mirtazapine/taper etc and could be signalling an underlying disease. 

 

Regards

 

John

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Happy2Heal   
Happy2Heal

oh yes sad to say, a cold virus can certainly have set this off, as can any kind of stress or a change in diet, a change in the weather, etc etc,  or just nothing at all,

as WD symptoms can come out of the blue sometimes too.

 

I have had all of the problems you've mentioned as WD symptoms (from a different drug in the past) I would guess that they are just WD symptoms for you now

 

how long have you had them? are they really intolerable?
if not, I personally would hold at your current dose, as going up and down is not a good thing (ask me how I know, I have suffered greatly from being so stupid as to change my dose around a lot :( )

 

but someone who knows you better may have other advise

 

I hope you feel better soon!

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