gloworm: Tapered 10 mg Prozac over 6 months, Dr wants me to reinstate

[gloworm]

I have a question....My B12 is 269 ....keeps going down ....going to use a lab that tests urine to see how much ACTIVE B12 I have ....I cant understand why everything feels worse and always very agitated with no sleep, I feel like a shell with no soul at all...ever.  Could low B12 be the issue ? Without enough B12 we cant make serotonin, no serotonin means no gabba.  I'm afraid that it will make me more anxious ...I feel hopeless....I have agoraphobia really bad and tachycardia issues all the time, cant exercise because of it.

[PoetJester]

Hi gloworm

 

have you given reinstating a small dose of Prozac any more thought?  like maybe 2-5 mg or so.  I have had the same toxic sleep and naps for some time too, where I feel extremely sick and my digestive tract starts shutting down from so much poor quality sleep.  a lot of people do pull out of these horrible withdrawals reinstating.  you are not really all that far out time wise.  I have been taking remeron (my psychiatrist's choice.  not mine.  I might try low dose Prozac or Zoloft instead, as remeron is pretty sedating) and can sleep again and take naps and do things again instead of staying in the apt all day feeling like I am dying.  It's not a great solution, but it beats constant torment and suffering.

 

poetjester

 

 

[powerback]

Hi glow ,we can walk thorough hell together ,im getting worse lately ,I think im too scared to admit I have the mental acathesia ,but by all the decriptions I have it ,im literally torchured .

I dont even believe its a wave .

Why,why hey.

Take care.

PB

[Hopefull]

Hi Gloworm,

What you are going through is WDS. 

A lot of people question them selves when they are going through this journey,  is it me or the drug. 

I was the same.  When you are in the midst of it, you can't see things clearly and everything is confusing. 

I was second guessing my self.  But deep down you know it is the WDS playing with your mind. 

Remember how you were before the drugs,  how you were while taking Klonopin and Prozac and how you are now after coming off the drugs. 

If you are feeling worse after coming off the drugs do you really think that it is "you", and not the drugs?  It is the drugs that have done that to you. 

I am sure the doctors will tell you otherwise. It is in their intrest to keep you addicted to the drugs that have put you in the place that you find yourself in. 

In order to break free from it,  WDS are inevitable.  You can still get WDS,  even if you have been tappering slowly over the years.  There is no guarantee.  You have come very far, just push through. 

Don't give up and don't lose hope.

Take care,  Hopeful.

[Altostrata]

gloworm, it might be worth it to try reinstating a very small amount of Prozac. Shep answered a lot of your questions. You'd use a small 1mL or 0.5mL oral syringe to take an amount of liquid equivalent to 0.5mg (1/2 mg). It's better to try a very small amount first to see which way it goes. If it makes your symptoms worse, the effect will be limited by the small dosage.

 

On 7/10/2017 at 6:18 PM, Altostrata said:

You might try taking 0.5mg Prozac and see what that does. Be very cautious because your body might not react to the Prozac in a way you're used to. A little can go a long way.

 

You'd stabilize on this small amount of Prozac for some months, then taper off by very, very tiny amounts.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

 

On 7/14/2017 at 4:49 AM, Shep said:

Gloworm, I would go ahead and do a 1/2 mg Prozac reinstatement. If non-drug coping skills aren't working and you feel like you are spiraling out of control, then it would be worth seeing if a tiny reinstatement helps.

 

If it ramps up symptoms after 4 - 7 days, you simply stop taking it.

 

If it helps, then you hold and stabilize and get some much needed rest. 

 

Let us know what you think. It's painful to read what you are writing, especially when there may be aid in a reinstatement. 

 

It sounds like your system is very sensitive. Are you light-sensitive? What is your sleep pattern? There are things you can do to work on that, too. Getting more sleep would help a lot. See Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

 

Nervous systems that are hyper-sensitve may react badly to vitamin B12. Please don't worry about your B12 level now or the biochemistry of your neurohormones, that stuff is kind of mythical.

[powerback]

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

gloworm, it might be worth it to try reinstating a very small amount of Prozac. Shep answered a lot of your questions. You'd use a small 1mL or 0.5mL oral syringe to take an amount of liquid equivalent to 0.5mg (1/2 mg). It's better to try a very small amount first to see which way it goes. If it makes your symptoms worse, the effect will be limited by the small dosage.

 

 

 

It sounds like your system is very sensitive. Are you light-sensitive? What is your sleep pattern? There are things you can do to work on that, too. Getting more sleep would help a lot. See Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

 

Nervous systems that are hyper-sensitve may react badly to vitamin B12. Please don't worry about your B12 level now or the biochemistry of your neurohormones, that stuff is kind of mythical.

Nervous systems that are hyper-sensitve may react badly to vitamin B12. Please don't worry about your B12 level now or the biochemistry of your neurohormones, that stuff is kind of mythical.

This is definitely true for my very sensitive system ,I took a b12 supplement the other day and without doubt I felt awful because of it .no more of that for me .

PB

[gloworm]

I AM SO SORRY....I MISSED all your replies ....never came in my Verizon in-box ??/ I just logged on to check ....I was soo bummed that no one had replied....SO SORRY.  Honestly I just keep getting worse. Been 10 months off .....isn't that long ?  I am so out of breath .....l cant walk from the bed sometimes to the bathroom....this is terrible....more than terrible.  I cant be alone I'm so frightened .  I just did a sleep study to see how my oxygen is during the night.  I cant get more sleep as I have insomnia ....and when I do sleep, it doesn't feel like it.  I'm going to have to go to the heart doctor.....something isn't right ...... The B12 can be tricky I have heard if you don't supplement with the right form.  I am going to do the urine test to see how much of active B12 is actually in my system.  Paranoia off the charts ....I can quit obsessing....I have this paranoid guilt about anything and I cant fight this.  I have a appt. with a MTHFR specialist on Friday to see what my genetics look like as far as supplements. My huge concern is if B12 continues to drop, it cant make serotonin ....that is fact.  I have no words for this ......it just get worse.  I hate to complain, and I am SO sorry for complaining but this is beyond torment .......For all the time I was on medication, nothing is like this......well it was pretty bad when my GP upped Klonopin and that is when I got really sick with the rage that had no words.....IDK, I never abused a drug, don't drink ....I'm lost....so very lost and hopeless....I'm not going to live years like this .....its not normal ......whether this is from the Klonopin or Prozac .....idk ....all I know is every week that goes by is worse ....not waves.....my world just gets smaller and smaller..... Did I mention I have POTS type heart issues ?

[gloworm]

Im doing terrible ... is it too late to reinstate ?  I can't take this anymore ......  my heart acts up now .... did a holtor monitor for 24 hours and of course wasn't that bad that day ... I can't barely talk with anyone it makes me sick ...i burn , prickly . Itchy , agitated , don't sleep and if I do it doesn't feel like I did , b12 low but scared to take a supplement , I'm horrible ....so some people maybe need a antidepressant ? 10 months off Prozac, 21 months off klonopin.

[gloworm]

Can my adrenals shut down .. I have been in major agitation / rage and fear 24/7 for 9 months ... my body does not quit pumping adrenaline ? I am sick to my stomach all the time now ... my muscles seize up and pull

across my chest and back . I can't talk to people , watch tv from all this fear and intrusive thoughts .  Is this possible for them to shy down??,... been to ER twice in a month but for heart and lungs.

[baroquep]

On 2017-07-10 at 9:18 PM, Altostrata said:

You might try taking 0.5mg Prozac and see what that does. Be very cautious because your body might not react to the Prozac in a way you're used to. A little can go a long way.

 

You'd stabilize on this small amount of Prozac for some months, then taper off by very, very tiny amounts.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

 
Hi glowworm, I'm reattaching Altostra's link from July.  I would familiarize yourself with the reinstatement process so that you are aware of the risks and benefits and so that you know what to expect.  

I have no idea whether or not adrenals can shut down and that would be a better question for your medical doctor.  I'm also attaching a link regarding cortisol spikes which will explain the adrenaline pumping (aka cortisol spikes).  Agitation and anger are classic withdrawal symptoms and I have unfortunately experienced them as well over the course of my taper.  The only known way of reducing withdrawal symptoms is with reinstating a small dose (in your case a very small dose) and then holding for a number of months until you are stabilized.   

 

Please keep track of your symptoms so that you can keep track of your progress, I've also attached those links below.

 

Hope you find the information helpful.  There is no reason to put yourself through unnecessary suffering and I would recommend that you consider reinstating.  Let me know if you have any questions once you've had a chance to take a look at the links below.

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms
What to Expect in Reinstatement (James Heaney article)

 

Waking with Panic or Anxiety Managing Cortisol Spikes

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist
Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

Edited September 3, 2017 by baroquep

[gloworm]

Thanks for your reply .....was reading but it says the longer off the drug, the more chance it wont work.....this is REALLY concerning to me......I'm scared of food now because I react to everything .....

[baroquep]

That is the reason we recommend starting at such a small amount to ensure that it doesn't make things worse.  If you find that you have an adverse reaction, you would discontinue the small dose right away.  It's entirely up to you but ultimately it is your choice.  Some people find it helps to calm their withdrawal symptoms and to re-stablize their central nervous system.  Let us know what you decide.

[gloworm]

I had a friend that just called me and told me "to quit feeling sorry for myself, and take something" ...NICE

[gloworm]

I WISH it was that easy ................

 

[baroquep]

People can be insensitive and unless they've walked a mile in your shoes, have no idea what you are going through.  The decision has to be yours and one that you are comfortable making.  Don't let anyone pressure you into doing something you don't want to.  I have spoken to a couple of my friends about withdrawing from antidepressants and while they are sympathetic, they admit they have no idea what I've been dealing with but they are here to support me.  Don't let your friend get you down.  

Edited September 4, 2017 by baroquep

[gloworm]

I'm scared i ruined my entire body ..... I have this rage and I'll never heal with all this emotion ....my body burns with adrenaline .... my eye sockets hurt terribly like someone punched them ..... it's like my entire body is in a spasm .... feels like someone is sitting on my chest .... it feels like it's too latebto reinstate .... I will be 1 year off October 21, why did I come off that so soon after klonopin ????? And probably much to quick - 5 or 6 months ....

[ChessieCat]

On 04/09/2017 at 6:27 AM, baroquep said:

There is no reason to put yourself through unnecessary suffering and I would recommend that you consider reinstating.

 

I agree with baroquep.  As long as you try a very tiny dose.

[powerback]

On 03/09/2017 at 3:59 PM, gloworm said:

I had a friend that just called me and told me "to quit feeling sorry for myself, and take something" ...NICE

This is terribly  insensitive and ignorant thing to be told ,try not to ruminate on this.it mite be a good idea to limit your precise time around  this ignoramus.

Take care 

PB

[Altostrata]

gloworm, have you tried a tiny crumb of sublingual vitamin B12 methylcobalamin tablet? Gradually increasing this can boost your B12.

 

We're not medical doctors. This is about all we can suggest:

On 7/10/2017 at 6:18 PM, Altostrata said:

You might try taking 0.5mg Prozac and see what that does. Be very cautious because your body might not react to the Prozac in a way you're used to. A little can go a long way.

 

You'd stabilize on this small amount of Prozac for some months, then taper off by very, very tiny amounts.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

 

also read One theory of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome for my personal experience with a tiny dose of lamotrigine.

[gloworm]

I bought the Hydro version of B12 ......I  once tried a small sliver and started to gag from the fear ...IDK if this is just me without a medication ?  My depression is so deep I can barely walk and if not totally depressed I have rage.  My heart keeps fluttering and skipping beats.  All doctors said I need to get this anxiety under control.  I have this exhaustion that has no words ....I get this stress in the middle of my chest ...All the benzo groups scared me right out of re-instatement ......now all I know is fear and rage.  Is this me without meds ?  Or am I hurting my heart .....IDK....I have already unbalanced my automonic nervous system ....THIS is why I'm scared 

[gloworm]

I HATE to complain but I cant not understand why this is just getting worse at 10 months off.  My entire body burns with adrenaline and tons of rage /agitation.  Last night it I had pain all over .....I don't know what this is ?  I'm SO SCARED to re-instate for fear of worsening of these symptoms ....anything this hard to come off of is FREAKING me out.  IDK maybe its benzo WD from the Klonopin ?  Can Kindling happen with a AD like a benzo ?  And then there is the akathisia  issue ...is this what this agitation is ? I'm not making it .....

[gloworm]

I am doing Horribly ....Oct 21 willbe1 year off Prozac and almost 2 years off Klonopin.   I burn a over with rage .....PLEASE what should I do ....I don't know if this is Prozac WD or Klonopin WD that was mostly covered with the Prozac.  I can't go on like this.  My heart was fluttering for hours skipping beats....its horrid.  I'm in a constant state of agitation to the degree of Rage. ...I cant even talk to people I get severe fear.  What is this ??? Someone please tell me what to do ???? I stare at wall ALL day......will I make myself worse by going back on ? 

[baroquep]

On 2017-09-07 at 2:21 PM, Altostrata said:

  On 2017-07-10 at 9:18 PM, Altostrata said:

You might try taking 0.5mg Prozac and see what that does. Be very cautious because your body might not react to the Prozac in a way you're used to. A little can go a long way.

 

You'd stabilize on this small amount of Prozac for some months, then taper off by very, very tiny amounts.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

 

Hi Gloworm, Very sorry to hear that you are still experiencing so much difficulty.  It is not known why but some people do end up suffering long and protracted withdrawal syndrome after discontinuing an antidepressant.  

 

Protracted Withdrawal or PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome) - How long does it last?

 

Have you given any more thought to reinstating a very small dose of Prozac to see if that might help relieve some of your symptoms?  The Prozac likely did buffer the withdrawal from Klonopin but because Prozac was the last drug that your central nervous system is familiar with, it would be best to try a very small dose of the Prozac.  Alto suggested you try 0.5mg but to be very careful and to be cautious and aware of how it is affecting you.  

If this is something that you'd like to consider, please do not start on a dose any higher than 0.5mg and keep track of your symptoms on a daily basis so that you can follow your symptom patterns and be aware whether you a trending forward or running into more difficulty.  

Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

[gloworm]

The problem with that is I will MAKE myself get symptoms just from the sheer terror and paranoia I have.  I always had a huge fear of medication my entire life......I'm a MESS and that putting it mildly , my stomach lining and esophagus is burning now from the stress......

[gloworm]

I had this same kind of issue when I first got sick 5 years ago before I even took the Prozac....I had a extreme paradoxal reaction to a Klonopin increase nd they gave me 2mg of liquid Prozac and it was like butter melted on my brain....took all the rage away on day 2.

[baroquep]

Unfortunately, reinstatement is the only way known to alleviate withdrawal symptoms.  While I can understand your hesitation, particularly because of your history with these drugs, there really aren't too many options.  You can either attempt a reinstatement of a very small dose of Prozac or try and wait the symptoms out.  Those really are the only two options available at this time.  

Edited October 10, 2017 by baroquep

[gloworm]

What if this is not WD and what if this is just me without a medication ?  I honestly don't know any longer ......when I tapered off Prozac this all continued to get worse an worse until it became all consuming.  I have no self esteem ...all I do is beat myself up...I also m consumed with guilt.  I don't know reality any more.

[baroquep]

have you had a chance to look at this link?

 

Is it withdrawal or relapse? Or something else?

 

How do I know it's withdrawal and not relapse?

 

Typically, in withdrawal symptoms such as melancholia, anxiety, and disorientation come in intense waves, sometimes only a few minutes long, which differentiates them from relapse of a psychological condition.

In withdrawal, symptoms are much more intense than the original psychological condition. People suffering from withdrawal often say things like

- "This doesn't feel like my depression."
- "I've never had symptoms like this before."
- "I feel very weird and not like myself."
- "I can't feel my feelings."

It's up to you to decide whether your body and brain are behaving "normally" as they did before you tried medication, or if you are feeling differently. No one else, not even a doctor, can determine this.

[gloworm]

It used to come in waves and it became more frequent, more intense until this is all I am living .....This is what I do not understand ...I can not remember who I was before this any longer ....the stress has gotten the best of me.  To be honest when I was on the Prozac, it was the best I have ever felt in 30 years.....no more agoraphobic behaviors .....could it be that I actually have a serotonin issue........I never had looping thoughts like this until off everything  My family says I was drugged my whole life which I was with Klonopin of 28 years.  How could anyone even know ?  I am in DEEP trouble.....and now I think I have deep emotional issues......never ever did I think I had them before like this, never thought about it much.....now I literally can not function .....my sister has to cook for me, I am scared to eat, live, breath ......

[gloworm]

Its like life just smacked me in the face, never married, had children, lived with my parents due to the anxiety disorder (which I was told was from the klonopin) as I did not have this kind of issues before the K.

[baroquep]

Withdrawal tends to mimic many psychiatric conditions and is extraordinarily misunderstood by the medical establishment on a whole.  I would hesitate to convince yourself that you have a psychiatric condition without exploring other avenues first.  Have you thought about seeing a therapist, counsellor or a psychologist (professionals that deal with problems without resorting to drugs) to help you work through the issues that you are dealing with.  

 

That you were on Klonopin for such a long period of time, your brain adapted to functioning under the presence of this drug and made changes to the way it was meant to function naturally.  While you did what seems like a fairly reasonable taper over two years, it just wasn't long enough for your central nervous system to adapt after 28 years on the drug.  Your withdrawal from Klonopin would have likely been far more intense had you not been on Prozac when you eventually discontinued.  I understand your reluctance to reinstate but as I said according to medical knowledge, it is the only known way to help alleviate withdrawal syndrome.  I guess you have to weigh the pros and cons as to whether or not you want to try and find some relief from the ongoing symptoms you continue to experience in withdrawal, and only you can ultimately make that decision.  

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain aka Brain Remodelling

What is Happening in Your Brain

In the meantime, the best I can offer is to advise you to find non-drug techniques to help ease some of the symptoms you are dealing with until you are able to make a decision one way or the other.  There are a multitude of suggestions and topics in the symptoms and self-care forum that might also be able to provide with ideas on techniques that you can use to lessen the impact withdrawal has on your life Symptoms & Self Care

 

Non-Drug Techniques to Cope with Emotional Symptoms

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

Edited October 10, 2017 by baroquep

[gloworm]

Yes, I have been in therapy my entire life including now.....thank you SO VERY MUCH for your responses.....

[gloworm]

I was wondering in the benzo groups I always hear that the drugs "Kindle", do anti depressants Kindle as well ?  This is a HUGE reason I'm scared to re-instate ......it could make me worse .....adding fire to a already smoldering CNS.

[gloworm]

And for me its more like a state of mind than it is waves of this....It started with the waves of paranoia / rage / guilt and it just got more frequent and In the length of it until it became  allconsuming to pretty much 24 / 7 .....Is this normal ?

[baroquep]

That is one of the reasons we suggest trying a very small dose to see how your CNS will react.  It's good to see that you are cautious, that's definitely a good way to approach reinstatement, but you don't want to be so overly cautious that you convince yourself that something that may never happen will happen to you.  I am a true believer that we need to gather as much information to make an informed decision about our health and well-being so am including a link below with information on kindling as it relates to antidepressants and hope that you find the information helpful in making a decision.

Kindling - Adverse Reactions
Limbic Kindling - Hardwiring the brain for hypersensitivity
Protracted Withdrawal or PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome) - How long does it last?

[gloworm]

I'm overly cautious ....I have repeated looping obsessive thoughts like OCD or something and I cant quit them ....they get to the point of panic and my heart gets irregular for hours .....everyone tells me its WD ..Its just getting worse and worse.