Jay78: my chemical assassination

[Altostrata]

Hello, Jay. Why do you continue to see this psychiatrist? Can you find another who will help you minimize drugs? Drug-induced Parkinsonism is surely a good reason to decrease dosages, and prescribing a cocktail of multiple antipsychotics is not good medical practice.

[India]

@Jay78 Can you find any hope in you? So sorry that you have been so damaged. I’ve heard of terrible cases and 7 years of healing to become fully recovered. This suggests to me there is hope. 

[Jay78]

On 12/27/2019 at 7:33 PM, Altostrata said:

Hello, Jay. Why do you continue to see this psychiatrist? Can you find another who will help you minimize drugs? Drug-induced Parkinsonism is surely a good reason to decrease dosages, and prescribing a cocktail of multiple antipsychotics is not good medical practice.

I know. He is court appointed, I can't bypass him. I had rabdomyolysis from the ap's and they shoved me in a clinic where for the first time they said I had psychosis. They gave me three times the amount of antipsychotics in the psychiatric ward. They are making a good deal of money for doing nothing, overprescribing and talking absolute nonsense. But what can I do, I am trapped in this scenario. These forums are of great help though. Everybody btw, thinks I am normal, my friends and all, but I am very visibly drugged and I can't function on two antipsychotics. Adding peronten to the mix is adding insult to injury.

[Jay78]

On 12/28/2019 at 2:02 AM, India said:

@Jay78 Can you find any hope in you? So sorry that you have been so damaged. I’ve heard of terrible cases and 7 years of healing to become fully recovered. This suggests to me there is hope. 

Well, there's still hope but I keep getting drugged for no reason. When someone prescribes olanzapine just to calm you down and you end up almost dying. What can I say.

[Altostrata]

Surely you can find some route of appeal. Can you get a second opinion from another specialist to take to the court?

[smketdie]

@Jay78 Those doctors know nothing. They get to conclusions which are not related to patient's thoughts at all. I hope you get well Jay, I hope we all do.

Do not give up. Believe  me you are not alone. 

 

[Jay78]

On 1/8/2020 at 12:02 AM, Altostrata said:

Surely you can find some route of appeal. Can you get a second opinion from another specialist to take to the court?

 

Ι probably could, but state appointed psychiatrists have qualified me as suffering, or having suffered from psychosis, and their opinion counts more than any one in private practise I have talked to, although I talked to a specialist and he prescribed klonopin and none of the antipsychotic bs. No matter what I tell the current shrink he acts as if the medicine is currently helping and not actually atrophying my brain as all research points too, and I am on it now for nearly too years, I mean without any schizoid symptom to be taking such colossal dosages of antipsychotics for so lone... and he claims it would help more if he increased it (to what, I mean two antipsychotics at pretty much max dosages...) but I 'd have more side effects. No one is doing there job properly, even a social worker that visited me just spent a few minutes and took off, I guess seeing as he worked for a guy who owned a clinic that it was to his benefit that I 'd be locked up.

 

[Jay78]

On 12/28/2019 at 2:02 AM, India said:

@Jay78 Can you find any hope in you? So sorry that you have been so damaged. I’ve heard of terrible cases and 7 years of healing to become fully recovered. This suggests to me there is hope. 

 

I am still hopeful, but I need to have an honest alliance with a mental health professional, namely a shrink, and keep getting dupped, the other guy prescribed olanzapine just to calm me down and I developed NMS and then he never picked up the phone again to talk to me. Now I am being asked to agree to the fact that antipsychotics are actually nootropics and they help me, without any sign ever of a psychotic condition. But what can I do, I persevere, being on two antipsychotics isn't helping at all though, but I used to be really smart, I have two university degrees and have worked at two high level jobs with completely different demands, so something of that astuteness remains, but of course it's a shame that it's being marred by the drugs.

[India]

I feel for you. Are there any  lawyers that specialise in mental health you can access via a charity?

It gives me shivers. We have the same system in U.K. NHS psychiatrists have more power than you can imagine. But it’s not impossible to elude them.  

[Jay78]

On 1/28/2020 at 3:33 AM, India said:

I feel for you. Are there any  lawyers that specialise in mental health you can access via a charity?

It gives me shivers. We have the same system in U.K. NHS psychiatrists have more power than you can imagine. But it’s not impossible to elude them.  

There is one committee that deals with mental health issues, but no lawyers as far as I am aware. But the shrink who prescribed olanzapine, after praising me for how rational I was lol, told me he is on one commitee that deals with malpractice but they never punish anyone, that's the status quo. Having said that I can request the medicines I was given at the clinic and they can't withhold them from me. 

 

Now as far as the meds go, I sleep like a log, I 've become fat, while I was always eating a lot and staying slim, and I am constantly tired. Sexually I am a non entity. In any case I 'll keep persevering. Thanks to all for your input.

[Jay78]

Just a heads up. I am  no, as many of you might be, housebound due to corona, and heavily medicated. It's good that I don't get to see many people as drugged out as I am, but seclusion is always hard. Thoughts and prayers to all in the forum.

[Jay78]

Thoughts and prayers to all in the forum. My prescribing doctor is still maintaining the colossal antipsychotic and antiepileptic dosages, and I am barely functional. I hope other people here are seeing the end of the tunnel instead.

[Jay78]

Turns out that I can see a different shrink to minimise the meds, although I 'll have resistance from my family who for some reason consider that I am perfectly sane yet insist on my taking cocktails of antipsychotics. Problem is I have lost the will to live with all these meds and I am immensely suicidal. I have tremendous body shame from all the weight gain on antipsychotics too. The worse bit though is my suicidal ideation, but then of course you might want to take your life if you are rendered so slow, lethargic, apathetic, fat, with pseudoparkinsonianism and sky high prolactin, anhedonic and dumb with all the meds. I know that's not my true med free self speaking and thinking but I have identified with my being the way I am even though I am fully aware that it is the medicines that have me feeling so utterly rotten. I hope I don't kill myself and that I 'll be back with some good news of finally going med free with a good doctor. But I am not so sure. If you don't see me posting anymore I probably quit struggling and decided to find peace and relief in the arms of God and the sweet hereafter. 

[BadMedicine]

Hi Jay. Please don't kill yourself. It might take some time to sort this situation out but you will be able to get off the medication and heal. I too am on an antipsychotic, olanzapine and I haven't felt the same since. I have become very antisocial and definitely am dumbed down and have memory problems. So I can't imagine what it must be like to be on 2 simultaneously. But I have been slowly reducing it and have noticed some improvement in my symptoms. It is quite tough but it can be done and is so worth it.

You don't have to see a psychiatrist to start reducing your meds. I know you can't do anything about the long acting injection but you can start reducing the other one. You don't have to do anything dramatic. Just start small. It is all forward progress. I hope you can get something sorted out. There is life beyond this.

[Altostrata]

Since this is only a Web forum, we can't answer emergencies. We have no way to assist people who are seriously suicidal and have to refer you to your local suicide counseling services.

 

If you can see a psychiatrist who can help you minimize the drugs, why not focus on getting that done instead of blocking yourself with these thoughts of worthlessness and self-destruction?

 

It also sounds like you need counseling to learn to deal with your family, maybe even family therapy.

 

Please let us know if we can assist you in tapering.

[Jay78]

Thanks for keeping my messages intact, and sorry if it's upsetted some members. I have read the replies, and I am grateful for them, and the links provided.

 

I can report that I have managed to contain my SI, it's extremely hard with all these meds trying to be clear headed, but I have set a goal to visit a new psychiatrist and possibly a psychotherapist.

 

Despite my self punishing motive to not go on holidays partly because I feel so sick and I won't be able to enjoy anything, I am actively thinking of going to some place nice for a few days.

 

I have asked friends too, to check on me regularly just to be on the safe side and urge me to start seeing a physician who can minimise my drug regiment which is making things so unbearable. That is against my family's wishes that I continue to see this shrink. It's an acceptable that without a schizophrenia diagnosis, and merely a psychotic break 7 years ago, which wasn't even a psychotic break because it didn't have any elements of one, I am on a mood stabiliser and two antipsychotics I am being told to function normally and that these meds actually help me do so, go to a 9-5 job (where I am not doing much, but it's still demanding after all that I 've been through) and that raising the dosages would help but I would have much more side effects. I also have developed hyperprolactiaimia due to risperdal and to a lesser degree quetiapine, and instead of lowering the dosages I am merely switched to the very similar paliperidone injectable, which by all accounts in journals is also very much implicated in raising prolactin. 

 

I have already tapered 25% off of seroquel to 300mg, this has been done in accordance with my current shrink. I 'd like to ask what are the chances of developing TD based on ineffective tapers and what substances are there to prevent TD from happening while you taper. I used to think since I am on these drugs so long and not TD that I wouldn't have any, but after reading a bit I 've discovered that the longer you stay on them the more likely to develop TD and that you can develop it during withdrawal.

 

Thanks. Peace. Jay.

 

 

[Altostrata]

3 hours ago, Jay78 said:

what are the chances of developing TD based on ineffective tapers

 

I don't understand this question. You'll want to taper slowly enough so you don't trigger withdrawal symptoms, which may include movement disorders.

 

The less antipsychotics you're taking, the lower the risk of TD.

[Jay78]

Just now, Altostrata said:

 

I don't understand this question. You'll want to taper slowly enough so you don't trigger withdrawal symptoms, which may include movement disorders.

 

The less antipsychotics you're taking, the lower the risk of TD.

 

Thanks for the reply. So far I m down to 75% of the seroquel xr dosage, I hope I didn't cut down too abruptly. I am well versed in withdrawal symptoms seeing as effexor ct had me on the floor with seizures for a month and half (everyday at night I d fall on the ground and have a seizure for half an hour or so) and the various ct's of ad's had immense pain in my head, but movement disorders is not something I want to experience so I 'll be extra cautious with the neuroleptics. Should I be taking it slow to with work, as I am supposed to hold a 9-5 job every day, I suppose while tapering the antipsychotics it might be helpful to only work 3 days a weeks and take plenty of rest. As I said I can barely function on these drugs. Can other people go about their daily lives with two monotherapy dosages of antipsychotics combined as i am expected to do? From what I ve been reading here in the forums and elsewhere people seem to get debilitated while on these drugs. Patients reports on the depot injections of risperdal and paliperidone are some of the most horrific stories you can read - and I am combining this with a mood stabiliser and a maintenance dosage for schiz. with seroquel. And I am told that I first have to be able to function on these drugs for them to be reduced. It's a catch 22 I can't function on these drugs, but if I don't function they won't reduce them... 

 

Anyway sorry for going on a bit of tangent here. I 'll be actively seeking a new doctor, and I 'll be reading around here and taking your advice on the antipsychotic tapers. Thanks for being here.

[Jay78]

So here we go. An update on how I am doing.

 

I am seeing my current doctor in three days, although I plan on finding a different one really soon. I am understandably very angry at him that with no schizophrenia diagnosis, and a vague drug induced psychosis (which itself is bogus) for a breakdown I had 6 years ago, and did not reappear during my ad treatment he is giving me a combo of two antipsychotics at full dosages (and gave me two to three times these drugs in his clinic) and now I have to suffer from yet another withdrawal after my body and brain have gone through so many of them. I am reading around here and elsewhere the prescribed dosages and even in people with severe mental disorders they do not go so high, or fo so long. I can't fathom how he's managed to convince my family that for 2 and half years it's normal to be on an injectable risperdal (now switched to paliperidone), quetiapine and pregabalin. And I really dislike being lied to. Which is what he did when he told me that injectable paliperidone doesn't elevate prolactin levels, which have gone to 25, and we should switch to that. Every study I read both injectables of risperidon and paliperidone are implicated in hyperprolactiemia, and of course they are since they are pretty much the same drug. Having said that he told me the other time he plans that I will soon go drug free, or so I think he said.

 

Now as far as the taper goes, I am down to 300mg quetiapine from 400mg, and it's been hell. I am super agitated, I have terrible headaches, and a sense of malaise that is unbearable. Sometimes I lay on the bed and think, wow how absolutely horrible am I feeling. There are times when I feel bearable, but just marginally so. I used to meditate a lot and I found a lot of comfort in that, but now that my head in a small pharmaceutical firm it's impossible to find relief this way. I don't know if it's the withdrawal or the fact that I ve taken so many drugs for so much time for so long, high ad dosages, benzos, antipsychotics, mood stabilisers - I 've pretty much taken every psychiatric med there is - and my brain has suffered unknown damage that I feel so awful.

 

But what can you do, if one has to live through hell one has to live through hell and hope for the best, while - of course - taking the right steps for it. And that's what I am after. Maybe there is some hope that besides a little anxiety I had, I lived most of my adult life drug free and I 've accomplished quite a few things, like two demanding university degrees in two different engineering fields, published a couple of books on unrelated topics, was successful at my job, it gives me hope but it also pains me because I was a productive highly functional individual before the drug damage. And it's sad to know that I will probably never go back to being my pristine me. But even if I go back to being somehow like my old self I 'll be happy. 

 

So, to sum up, I am here, I am vertical, I might be going through some pretty unbearable symptoms due to the drugs I take and the withdrawal from them, but I 've had seizures, I 've been a vegetable unable to move anything in my house at one point (what a nightmare that was) I had horrible horrible headaches from the effexor, some of the worst drug cocktails and doctors one can imagine, many months spent in psychiatric wards etc. etc. I 'd like to say that the worst is behind me, but it isn't, and it reminds me of the Stevie Smith poem which goes: 

 

But darker days and hungrier I must spend
Till hunger and darkness make an end. 

 

Peace and love to all. 

 

Jay.

[Altostrata]

Here are our Tips for Tapering topics. The 10% reduction per month method, calculated on last dosage, is intended to minimize withdrawal symptoms. If you don't want to follow it, you will have to cope with withdrawal symptoms.

 

 

There are no magic bullet cures for withdrawal symptoms. If you have withdrawal symptoms, further tapering may make them worse. We advise people to wait until withdrawal symptoms go away before reducing again -- by 10%.

[Jay78]

Thanks for the reminder. I am going to fully comply with these and report back.

[composter]

54 minutes ago, Jay78 said:

I used to meditate a lot and I found a lot of comfort in that, but now that my head in a small pharmaceutical firm it's impossible to find relief this way.

You have a real sense of humor, Jay, and that should help you to lighten the mood when you need it. And you’re right—you’ve been through much worse before. Now that you know how to properly taper and you can follow the recommendations on here, chances are you won’t experience the same level of suffering that you have before. 

 

1 minute ago, Jay78 said:

Thanks for the reminder. I am going to fully comply with these and report back.

Glad you’re planning to comply with 10% reduction method. If you have any issues with tapering we’re here to help and having someone like Alto in your team is some of the best expert help you can find when it comes to this. 
 

Best of luck finding a new doctor. Sometimes it’s just so necessary to break ties with doctors that have completely different viewpoints and lack understanding of withdrawal and psych mes issues. It can be very healing to find a doctor more open-minded and willing to support you in a slow taper. 
 

In addition to finding a therapist as well, are there soothing activities you can think of that you’d like to do? Going for walks, spending time in nature, or journaling always helps me. It’s important to have a toolkit of healthy coping strategies to get you through this process. 
 

 

[Jay78]

Thanks for the warm words of comfort. I really enjoyed your post, dopamine and serotonin blockade notwithstanding, lol.

 

It's an excellent reminder that I need some healthy coping strategies too, that they are incredibly important. So far, I have had pretty much none, except for talking to friends. Being on so many psych. meds I had to go early to work and spent 8 hours there, struggling to barely cope with some menial tasks, then coming home and sleeping. In the future I plan to go less frequently to work, it's just too much to keep a 9-5 job right now.

 

But here's my plan, I will start walking again with my mom on a more regular basis. I 'll listen to my podcasts, as much as I can, I will try my audiobooks that I used to love, that so far I didn't have the concentration or the peace of mind to listen to. I will cut down on sugar and caffeine, although my sugar cravings I know are directly related to the antipsychotics, never used to crave sugar before, it's those evil things messing up my metabolism. I will continue talking to supportive friends, I have a few luckily. I will come up with more as time goes on.

 

Today I woke up with my usual malaise and headache, slightly better. I took stock of my life. I am extremely angry that doctors pull the diagnosis out of their behind and then overmedicate it me. I am especially angry for what is really a sacrilege that I am forced to take these horrible meds while being sane. 

[composter]

Good plan! Your support network is key to getting through the tough times. Even a few trusted friends who you can call up and share with, who know what’s going on, and can provide words of comfort. It can go a long way. 
 

Walking, podcasts, and audiobooks all sound nice and relaxing. On some apps there are features to slow the speed of the audio if that would help you (if you feel the speed is causing anxiety or other issues). Listen to your body above all and get plenty of rest, hydration, and good nutrition. 
 

I understand the frustration wholeheartedly. For a lot of us who’ve gone through this, we often search for ways to channel that anger into concrete action. Perhaps there are productive steps you can think of that will help you put those feelings towards something healthy?

 

In my case I was able to write a letter to my original prescribing doctor (who also did not recognize withdrawal) and I scheduled a private meeting and read the letter aloud to him. That was healing for me to revisit the trauma and seek closure. I wanted him to be aware of exactly what I went through and what I wish he would do differently for future cases. I also provided him with many resources to self-educate about withdrawal. He listened to me and expressed that he would be doing his best to learn. Maybe you might like to do something similar?

[Jay78]

Thanks for your post composter, it made for some very good reading, and I 'll get back to you as soon as I fill you guys up with some news.

 

My current doctor told me of course I didn't have schizophrenia but the meds are not just for this (well, that's the only approved use they have...) and they are helping me. He also told me it was understandable that I freaked out after receiving threats and someone breaking my door down. He said a bunch of other things I didn't quite grasp, maybe because I wasn't paying attention to him or because my bs gauge had gone off to ignore him for the next few minutes. He said that at most in 6 months he 'll have me off medicine. That's good. But he wasn't of the opinion that I was on any serious high dosage medications anyway. Two antipsychotics and schizophrenia maintenance dosages and a mood stabiliser at high dosages is a pretty big drug cocktail imho, but anyway. 

 

What's not good is that he doesn't believe in withdrawal, because I asked him, if going off ct off so many antidepressants had put stress on my brain and he said no, the only problem would have been if you had died from serotonin syndrome which you didn't. 

 

I have been switched o xeplion (a paliperidon injectable, monthly) despite my high prolactin levels because he says it doesn't raise prolactin, despite the drug leaflet saying you shouldn't take it with high prolactin scores. I will confront him on that as soon as possible. I looked up the equivalent dosages with the risperdal injectable I was on, and it seems I am at about the same levels of drug I used to, according to the official pharma recommendations, but he said I am clearly on a lower dosage now. Ok, I 'll the his word for it. 

 

Regardless of this guy, my tapers will be snail slow to come off of antipsychotics, as I 've paid dearly with antidepressants.

 

 

[Altostrata]

6 minutes ago, Jay78 said:

I have been switched o xeplion (a paliperidon injectable, monthly) despite my high prolactin levels because he says it doesn't raise prolactin, despite the drug leaflet saying you shouldn't take it with high prolactin scores.

 

Why another injectable and why this injectable? This conversation with this doctor does not build confidence. You need a new doctor.

[Jay78]

Supposedly risperdal raises prolactin, but paliperidone does not, that's what he claims. And since my prolactin is high, he suggested I switch. I know it's pretty much the same medicine but I hadn't read the leaflet that explicitly states you shouldn't;  take it if you have elevated prolactin to confront him with that. 

 

You are right that the conversation with this doctor doesn't build confidence. But I also have the legal bind. I spoke with my lawyer and he told me I can switch doctors if I so desired. I probably should. My aim though is to have someone supervise my tapering of these drugs, and since he said he would do so and have me with zero drugs, except perhaps gabapentin, soon (within 6 months) I didn't look for a new shrink.

[Jay78]

Ι am down to 300mg peronten, 200mg seroquel xr, and xeplion at 100mg, still some really heavy drugs and I am paying the price and suffering but I am looking at a further reduction which is good. 

[Jay78]

In a couple of weeks I will be down to 100mg seroquel xr, xeplion at 100mg and peronten at 300mg.

[Jay78]

I am staying strong these last few days, feeling just a bit better in an mostly insufferable reality, I keep contact with a few people that help. 

 

I 've had another injection though which annoyed the hell out of me, it made very angry actually. 

[Altostrata]

Please use the pharmacy names of the drugs, we can't memorize the label names of all the drugs all over the world.

 

How are you reducing Seroquel?

 

You need a new doctor.

[Jay78]

Sorry for that, in a week I will reduce to 100mg of Quetiapine, I am maintaining Paliperidone Palmitate depot injection at 100mg and gabapentin at 300mg. I reduced gabapentin on my own a year or so ago, and I haven't told him, not going it to either.

 

I took 400mg Seroquel, that is Quetiapine for two years, I cut down to 300mg and maintained it for two months, then for the next couple of months I was on 200mg, and now in a week or so I will be down to 100mg Quetiapine.

 

And yes I do need a new doctor, I would be far better off with someone who didn't implement a High Dosage Antipsychotic treatment, and reduced it at a far earlier stage, and was far less dishonest with the side effects and the dosages of the "meds".

[Altostrata]

Did you feel any withdrawal symptoms when you reduced quetiapine? Those are big reductions, but you are taking a bunch of other drugs that may mask withdrawal.

[Jay78]

My sleep wasn't affected so far, quetiapine at night still knocks me out when it reaches peak absorption, and of course I wake up the next day feeling extremely tired and unsatisfied by my sleep even when I sleep for 10 or so hours. 

 

The drugs have become increasingly less tolerated, as if they have harmed me to the point of feeling much much worse than I did a year ago. I had been reading about this in scientific papers, how the side effects get worse with time.

 

Maybe I haven't felt withdrawal so far due to the fact that as you said I am covered with the rather considerable dosage of the other antipsychotic, so even as I 've halved one antipsychotic, overall in total the antipsychotic action hasn't been reduced so much.

[Altostrata]

Still, you might want to reduce quetiapine more gradually now. Can you reduce it by 25mg each time? How often are you reducing? Better be safe than sorry.

[Jay78]

I am reducing every two months, should I drop by 25mg every couple of weeks?