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Possible relief for some - addressing anxiety

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b305m   
b305m

has anyone ever really taken the time to think about what's happening to them. I'm talking people that are "1-3" years out, have you guys ever thought that maybe you're in a severe anxiety loop ? I went 7 months thinking I was suffering from withdrawal before I figured out it could be anxiety, I tried a program to help with it and in less then a week I was almost symptom free. All withdrawal symptoms are also anxiety symptoms.

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ProzacWasCreatedBySatan1   
ProzacWasCreatedBySatan1

Very possible for some, the only reason I don't think that is the case for me is that I still have a lot of physical pain, and alcohol feels way different to me. Physical withdrawl or not, I am interested in the program. What is it called?

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notalwaysso   
notalwaysso

I wonder sometimes, what is the difference between withdrawal symptom and anxiety. Could it be that what we experience here is some kind of mix? maybe some of the anxiety is old (pre med) anxiety, stuff that never got worked out .

Interestingly, I was writing a diary before I knew about WD  syndrome.

going over what i wrote 8 months ago, when I started having the smptoms,  i can really see the waves, and the weirdness of the emotions, and that I was aware that something really weird is going on. 

 

So, i think there is a different between garden variety anxiety and WD induced anx. The latter feels really abnormal.

I mean, if you could characterize it by color,or texture, or feel, well, mine is a kind of phosphorescent horrible yellow that

really burns.

 

Anyway, dealing with it with whatever nonmedical way as is amply suggested in this site, REALLY helps.

Its just that its hard , long work, and you need lots of patience and endurance and staying power to get to see

little notches of improvement. But it does work, and ultimately, that is what matters.

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compsports   
compsports

Hmm, in my case, being on psych meds long term has damaged my sleep system.   Any anxiety I have is due to not finding any help from sleep doctors and trying everything I can to think of to solve the problem to no avail.

 

Be careful about blaming anxiety for long term difficulties people are having with meds.   Just because you found it may be true in your case doesn't mean it is applicable to other folks.

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Shep   
Shep

has anyone ever really taken the time to think about what's happening to them. I'm talking people that are "1-3" years out, have you guys ever thought that maybe you're in a severe anxiety loop ? I went 7 months thinking I was suffering from withdrawal before I figured out it could be anxiety, I tried a program to help with it and in less then a week I was almost symptom free. All withdrawal symptoms are also anxiety symptoms.

 

b305m, many of the people who are 1 - 3 years off were long term users. 

 

You don't have a signature, but according to your opening post, you were only on Zoloft for a week. 

 

Since you were placed on this drug to treat low mood after a football injury, it's possible that part of your anxiety was caused by your injury and not being able to play football for awhile. Being an athlete, not being able to exercise for awhile can definitely cause anxiety and depression symptoms. 

 

So your narrative is a lot different than most people on this forum. 

 

This post is great for describing how these drugs affect us, especially for long-term users:

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel the brain

 

I am so happy to read that you are feeling better, but it's important for members to understand that it's unlikely that any anxiety program will fix psychiatric drug withdrawal in a week. 

 

You are only 17 and it's so fortunate you are getting educated in these drugs now. It could save you a lifetime of pain. But please know that you really dodged a bullet by getting off your drug so quickly. It's best to avoid these drugs in the future because, again, it's unlikely that an anxiety program will fix the damage of withdrawal if you do try these drugs again and stay on them long term. Many people become dependent on antidepressants and antipsychotics within a month and benzodiazepines within 2 to 3 weeks. 

 

Most likely, you were dealing with an adverse reaction as opposed to antidepressant withdrawal. 

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Junglechicken   
Junglechicken

"Have you guys ever thought that maybe you're in a severe anxiety loop​".

 

Yes, certainly one of the curses of anxiety/depression, is being sucked into that downward spiral that is ever self-perpetuating.

 

  • My therapist has pointed out to me, that this loop of anxiety and depression has kept me in a semi-permanent state of pain and chronic illness.

 

  • My ND has advised me to meditate, exercise and try to remain positive or the healing won't happen.

 

  • Then the purpose of the CBT is to question my harmful thoughts that said pain is catastrophic.

 

All of the bullets above are aimed at enabling us to step out of that pain cycle.

 

However they take time and effort to cultivate.

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music321   
music321

I've wondered this too.  Books relating to chronic pain and psychological states have been written by John Sarno, MD.  I have wondered about this problem from the "psychological" perspective as well.  I don't know if it's possible to draw the line between what is physical and what is psychological.  Of course, the psychiatrists would have us all believe that our problems are purely psychological.  

 

Sarno has proposed the term "TMS" (Tension Myositis Syndrome) as the manifestation of physical problems (along with "foggy thinking") as a result of psychological causes.  What's interesting, is that there are many very similar symptoms that TMS sufferers share, such as focalized areas of physical pain that are in the exact same locations on different people.  Many sufferers have brought their symptoms under almost complete control with mind/body techniques.  I think in the case of TMS, there is a psychological and physical component.  The brain is a physical structure that generates psychological activity.  In all regards, the mechanisms behind this are almost entirely unknown.  Cark Jung, one of the last competent psychiatrists, posited that mind and matter are actually different expressions of the same material.  Who knows...

 

My gut feeling is that there is a blend of the "physical" and "psychological" going on.  As for the balance, for some people it might be 10% psychological, for others it might be 90%.  My gut feeling is that our problems are, at least in part, made worse by psychological states.

 

In short, I don't know the answer to the questions that you've brought up.  I'm extremely glad that you did bring them up, though.  I think that this is an important direction from which to address our problems.  The more people that try to look at things from a "fix your mind, fix your brain" point of view, the more we can exchange information and see if this approach actually leads anywhere.  

 

I think this would be a great topic for a new sub-forum!

 

As for my own contribution to this line of inquiry, I was tapering very slowly over the course of a year.  I had to arrest tapering when I started to experience greater than usual symptoms.  These symptoms appeared during a period of great stress, when I had injured myself.  I feel that the stress of the injury exacerbated the effects of tapering on my nervous system.

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b305m   
b305m

Very possible for some, the only reason I don't think that is the case for me is that I still have a lot of physical pain, and alcohol feels way different to me. Physical withdrawl or not, I am interested in the program. What is it called?

Look up "Panic away" it's absolutely amazing once you really get into it no matter how impossible it sounds it does work wonders and will help with a lot of stuff. Good book and very scientific

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b305m   
b305m

I've wondered this too.  Books relating to chronic pain and psychological states have been written by John Sarno, MD.  I have wondered about this problem from the "psychological" perspective as well.  I don't know if it's possible to draw the line between what is physical and what is psychological.  Of course, the psychiatrists would have us all believe that our problems are purely psychological.  

 

Sarno has proposed the term "TMS" (Tension Myositis Syndrome) as the manifestation of physical problems (along with "foggy thinking") as a result of psychological causes.  What's interesting, is that there are many very similar symptoms that TMS sufferers share, such as focalized areas of physical pain that are in the exact same locations on different people.  Many sufferers have brought their symptoms under almost complete control with mind/body techniques.  I think in the case of TMS, there is a psychological and physical component.  The brain is a physical structure that generates psychological activity.  In all regards, the mechanisms behind this are almost entirely unknown.  Cark Jung, one of the last competent psychiatrists, posited that mind and matter are actually different expressions of the same material.  Who knows...

 

My gut feeling is that there is a blend of the "physical" and "psychological" going on.  As for the balance, for some people it might be 10% psychological, for others it might be 90%.  My gut feeling is that our problems are, at least in part, made worse by psychological states.

 

In short, I don't know the answer to the questions that you've brought up.  I'm extremely glad that you did bring them up, though.  I think that this is an important direction from which to address our problems.  The more people that try to look at things from a "fix your mind, fix your brain" point of view, the more we can exchange information and see if this approach actually leads anywhere.  

 

I think this would be a great topic for a new sub-forum!

 

As for my own contribution to this line of inquiry, I was tapering very slowly over the course of a year.  I had to arrest tapering when I started to experience greater than usual symptoms.  These symptoms appeared during a period of great stress, when I had injured myself.  I feel that the stress of the injury exacerbated the effects of tapering on my nervous system.

Very true, I think a lot of people are gunna have some sort of anxiety problem after their WD too and it could help. But a lot of stuff about anxiety really makes sense with WD symptoms and how you can constantly have Physical symptoms even when you're not anxious because of a hypersensitive nervous system. Really calms the mind too

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Lorin   
Lorin
Good question

I feel that most of the symptoms are psychological and come from the problem that has returned

I would love to hear more opinions

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manymoretodays   
manymoretodays

has anyone ever really taken the time to think about what's happening to them. I'm talking people that are "1-3" years out, have you guys ever thought that maybe you're in a severe anxiety loop ? I went 7 months thinking I was suffering from withdrawal before I figured out it could be anxiety, I tried a program to help with it and in less then a week I was almost symptom free. All withdrawal symptoms are also anxiety symptoms.

 

b305,

 

All I know is that I am really happy that there is always another self help or non drug therapy to try or learn and grow into.  Glad that you benefited so well.

 

I'm a long termer, as far as the drugging by shrinks went and 1-3 years out and no........I don't think that I'm in a severe anxiety loop.  I struggle with some symptoms of withdrawal........thankfully not nearly as severe as what happened symptom wise in the beginning.  That "panic or ??anxiety loop" was out of this world suffering.  Pacing, inability to think, snappish, etc..........it was exhausting and I am ever thankful that I survived.

 

Yah.....this might be considered as a good place to work that program you mention with others.  And do........ continue your self education and find ways to help others to stay off these harmful drugs so readily prescribed.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth.....

 

manymoretodays

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Lorin   
Lorin

 

has anyone ever really taken the time to think about what's happening to them. I'm talking people that are "1-3" years out, have you guys ever thought that maybe you're in a severe anxiety loop ? I went 7 months thinking I was suffering from withdrawal before I figured out it could be anxiety, I tried a program to help with it and in less then a week I was almost symptom free. All withdrawal symptoms are also anxiety symptoms.

 

b305,

 

All I know is that I am really happy that there is always another self help or non drug therapy to try or learn and grow into.  Glad that you benefited so well.

 

I'm a long termer, as far as the drugging by shrinks went and 1-3 years out and no........I don't think that I'm in a severe anxiety loop.  I struggle with some symptoms of withdrawal........thankfully not nearly as severe as what happened symptom wise in the beginning.  That "panic or ??anxiety loop" was out of this world suffering.  Pacing, inability to think, snappish, etc..........it was exhausting and I am ever thankful that I survived.

 

Yah.....this might be considered as a good place to work that program you mention with others.  And do........ continue your self education and find ways to help others to stay off these harmful drugs so readily prescribed.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth.....

 

manymoretodays

 

how long you was on drugs?

how long taper?

 

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manymoretodays   
manymoretodays

Roughly 28-30 years and about that many prescribed drugs in all those years.  Hard to say on taper time with all of them....... because with some of them I just didn't know to taper and went rather quickly.  Not what I would recommend to anyone coming off multi drugs or single drugs for that matter.......could be too harmful.  That's what this site is all about.......safe reductions and then support for withdrawal.  There's a ton of information here.  Lot's of coping skills.   Started getting off them around 2008 or 10.

 

I'll get my recovery/success story written soon.  And feel free to plod through my intro. if it helps you in any way.

 

Best,

 

mmt

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JanCarol   
JanCarol

I looked up Panic Away, and it looks like a commercial site, looking to profit on other people's misery.

 

It may be a good program, but I'm suspicious of slick, and extremely suspicious of "screening tests."

 

You have to subscribe to get your results - it feels like phishing to me.  The quiz indicated that I had a panic score of 20, with 24 being the max "problematic" score, and 6 being the lowest problematic score.  In other words, EVERYONE has anxiety.  (my symptoms are more around fatigue, pain, and adrenal issues, but hey - this guy says I have anxiety, and can use his program.)

 

There is a lot of really good information on SA for free.  If you want to pay for a program, that's your business.  At least they don't recommend drugs.

 

CBT  and Mindfulness (which this is based on)  helps withdrawals best if you have built up a bank of practice before coming off the drugs.  

 

When in withdrawal, that panic is chemical, and unless you are comfortable and have a practice - reaching for these tools can lead to great disappointment.

 

There is plenty of information here on site about non-drug methods of coping.  I suggest the excellent Dealing with Emotional Spirals by BrassMonkey to deal with "anxiety loops." and Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms

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Lorin   
Lorin

Roughly 28-30 years and about that many prescribed drugs in all those years.  Hard to say on taper time with all of them....... because with some of them I just didn't know to taper and went rather quickly.  Not what I would recommend to anyone coming off multi drugs or single drugs for that matter.......could be too harmful.  That's what this site is all about.......safe reductions and then support for withdrawal.  There's a ton of information here.  Lot's of coping skills.   Started getting off them around 2008 or 10.

 

I'll get my recovery/success story written soon.  And feel free to plod through my intro. if it helps you in any way.

 

Best,

 

mmt

so you 3 yeears free of drugs?

how long last the withdarawll symptoms?

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Lorin   
Lorin

I looked up Panic Away, and it looks like a commercial site, looking to profit on other people's misery.

 

It may be a good program, but I'm suspicious of slick, and extremely suspicious of "screening tests."

 

You have to subscribe to get your results - it feels like phishing to me.  The quiz indicated that I had a panic score of 20, with 24 being the max "problematic" score, and 6 being the lowest problematic score.  In other words, EVERYONE has anxiety.  (my symptoms are more around fatigue, pain, and adrenal issues, but hey - this guy says I have anxiety, and can use his program.)

 

There is a lot of really good information on SA for free.  If you want to pay for a program, that's your business.  At least they don't recommend drugs.

 

CBT  and Mindfulness (which this is based on)  helps withdrawals best if you have built up a bank of practice before coming off the drugs.  

 

When in withdrawal, that panic is chemical, and unless you are comfortable and have a practice - reaching for these tools can lead to great disappointment.

 

There is plenty of information here on site about non-drug methods of coping.  I suggest the excellent Dealing with Emotional Spirals by BrassMonkey to deal with "anxiety loops." and Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms

did you try cbt before taper?

does it helped you with withdrawalls?

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manymoretodays   
manymoretodays

Hi Lorin,

 

No.....I just got off my last drug/med in December of 2016 after tapering. Oxcarbazepine/trileptal.

 

The severe withdrawal as far as what could be described as severe anxiety or panic came after my Lexapro withdrawal..... and then a bit more after I came off 2.5mg. of Adderal.  Like JC said above, other symptoms too.  I guess chemical would be a good way to describe how my earlier stuff felt. 

 

It's been almost 3 years for me since coming off the Lexapro.

 

I still have some withdrawal symptoms from time to time but am functional again........nothing like the severity I once had.  Long windows.

 

I don't feel like most of my symptoms are psychological, some are, some aren't.  It's more complicated than that I believe.  You'll gain a different understanding after you do some of your own research and reading......here, and I would definitely read "Anatomy of an Epidemic" by Robert Whitaker or some of the other books mentioned around here.   I did do cbt and other therapies during and before withdrawal and also continue to along with other healing modalities.

 

Hope that answers your questions. :)

 

Best,

 

mmt

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JanCarol   
JanCarol

 

I looked up Panic Away, and it looks like a commercial site, looking to profit on other people's misery.

 

It may be a good program, but I'm suspicious of slick, and extremely suspicious of "screening tests."

 

You have to subscribe to get your results - it feels like phishing to me.  The quiz indicated that I had a panic score of 20, with 24 being the max "problematic" score, and 6 being the lowest problematic score.  In other words, EVERYONE has anxiety.  (my symptoms are more around fatigue, pain, and adrenal issues, but hey - this guy says I have anxiety, and can use his program.)

 

There is a lot of really good information on SA for free.  If you want to pay for a program, that's your business.  At least they don't recommend drugs.

 

CBT  and Mindfulness (which this is based on)  helps withdrawals best if you have built up a bank of practice before coming off the drugs.  

 

When in withdrawal, that panic is chemical, and unless you are comfortable and have a practice - reaching for these tools can lead to great disappointment.

 

There is plenty of information here on site about non-drug methods of coping.  I suggest the excellent Dealing with Emotional Spirals by BrassMonkey to deal with "anxiety loops." and Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms

did you try cbt before taper?

does it helped you with withdrawalls?

 

Hey Lorin, I had a number of non-drug skills, meditation, yoga, mindfulness.  By the time DBT came around, I had been sitting Zen, doing yoga, meditating, doing tai chi - so - it seemed rudimentary (but rudimentary is appropriate for DBT).

 

But I've worked on shifting cognitive framing, and yes, I did it before my taper.  Having a practice, having skills, helped immensely.

 

However, my Zen sitting was BEFORE my major drugging - so - I got lost in the waves of withdrawal back in the 90's, when doctors said "take more, take different, add this, switch to that."  My real bear for withdrawal was Wellbutrin (not the hardest journey, I know) but every time I tried to decrease my dose (by half - I didn't know any better, and they were specially coated pills, I couldn't imagine cracking them open or putting them in liquid) I became so fatigued that I couldn't get out of bed.  I cried, and suffered, and thought I was deficient, a failure, broken brain.  So I stayed on it for years, and, naturally, got more and more drugged as the years went by.  (about 20 years all up of constant drugging, though I'd tried prozac and tricyclics prior).

 

In a way, the drugging was a relief - because - there are times when all the non-drug coping skills in the world cannot override the chemical mood shifting.  I thought, "ah, I have a broken brain.  All the zen sitting in the world won't fix this, I'll take the drugs." and no longer felt like it was my fault that I couldn't control my mood.  

 

The knowledge here at SA made my final tapers quite smooth.  I never again got to that state of emergency called "withdrawal," and it pains me when I see people coming here in a panic - because - I know what it feels like - but the knowledge which is here - isn't available at your doctor's office.

 

Now, without the drugs, without the drag of the chemicals, there are a zillion things I can do to control my mood.  But it was SA tapering that got me through withdrawals smoothly (even though I had a large tool kit of techniques, and used many of them while tapering).

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Happy2Heal   
Happy2Heal

has anyone ever really taken the time to think about what's happening to them. I'm talking people that are "1-3" years out, have you guys ever thought that maybe you're in a severe anxiety loop ? I went 7 months thinking I was suffering from withdrawal before I figured out it could be anxiety, I tried a program to help with it and in less then a week I was almost symptom free. All withdrawal symptoms are also anxiety symptoms.

 

I don't think that most of us are in an anxiety loop- the anxiety/panic/dread/terror are far beyond any kind of "normal" anxiety symptoms I've ever experienced, and I have severe PTSD, so I am on close terms with anxiety, believe me. lol

 

I do think though, that when the chemically caused feeling of anxiety/panic hits, we can keep it going longer than it *might* by thinking that there must be a reason for it, looking for a cause, for a real threat to explain this awful feeling, and in that way, we can end up in a loop that may prolong our suffering.

 

I know even now, if I get hit with anxiety again, I will find myself looking at things OUTSIDE of myself as causes for the feeling, totally forgetting that it's a withdrawal symptom that is caused by the chemicals and hormones sorting themselves out in my brain.

 

and then I will try to avoid or fix those external things, thinking that will help- but it won't, because it's JUST a very unpleasant sensation caused by my brain and NOT my thinking.

 

this is very very hard to grasp and deal with, and it continues to be the place where I get caught up. There are places in my own home, and music and words and tv shows, that all seem to "cause" fear, but they are just things that my thoughts were resting on when I experienced the chemically caused sensation of panic, so I THINK that they are scary things, but of course, they are not.

 

 

I have to find a way to STOP myself from falling into the trap that because I feel fear, there must be something to be afraid of.

 

If you've got any ideas, I"m open to them!!

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Lorin   
Lorin

 

 

I looked up Panic Away, and it looks like a commercial site, looking to profit on other people's misery.

 

It may be a good program, but I'm suspicious of slick, and extremely suspicious of "screening tests."

 

You have to subscribe to get your results - it feels like phishing to me.  The quiz indicated that I had a panic score of 20, with 24 being the max "problematic" score, and 6 being the lowest problematic score.  In other words, EVERYONE has anxiety.  (my symptoms are more around fatigue, pain, and adrenal issues, but hey - this guy says I have anxiety, and can use his program.)

 

There is a lot of really good information on SA for free.  If you want to pay for a program, that's your business.  At least they don't recommend drugs.

 

CBT  and Mindfulness (which this is based on)  helps withdrawals best if you have built up a bank of practice before coming off the drugs.  

 

When in withdrawal, that panic is chemical, and unless you are comfortable and have a practice - reaching for these tools can lead to great disappointment.

 

There is plenty of information here on site about non-drug methods of coping.  I suggest the excellent Dealing with Emotional Spirals by BrassMonkey to deal with "anxiety loops." and Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms

did you try cbt before taper?

does it helped you with withdrawalls?

 

Hey Lorin, I had a number of non-drug skills, meditation, yoga, mindfulness.  By the time DBT came around, I had been sitting Zen, doing yoga, meditating, doing tai chi - so - it seemed rudimentary (but rudimentary is appropriate for DBT).

 

But I've worked on shifting cognitive framing, and yes, I did it before my taper.  Having a practice, having skills, helped immensely.

 

However, my Zen sitting was BEFORE my major drugging - so - I got lost in the waves of withdrawal back in the 90's, when doctors said "take more, take different, add this, switch to that."  My real bear for withdrawal was Wellbutrin (not the hardest journey, I know) but every time I tried to decrease my dose (by half - I didn't know any better, and they were specially coated pills, I couldn't imagine cracking them open or putting them in liquid) I became so fatigued that I couldn't get out of bed.  I cried, and suffered, and thought I was deficient, a failure, broken brain.  So I stayed on it for years, and, naturally, got more and more drugged as the years went by.  (about 20 years all up of constant drugging, though I'd tried prozac and tricyclics prior).

 

In a way, the drugging was a relief - because - there are times when all the non-drug coping skills in the world cannot override the chemical mood shifting.  I thought, "ah, I have a broken brain.  All the zen sitting in the world won't fix this, I'll take the drugs." and no longer felt like it was my fault that I couldn't control my mood.  

 

The knowledge here at SA made my final tapers quite smooth.  I never again got to that state of emergency called "withdrawal," and it pains me when I see people coming here in a panic - because - I know what it feels like - but the knowledge which is here - isn't available at your doctor's office.

 

Now, without the drugs, without the drag of the chemicals, there are a zillion things I can do to control my mood.  But it was SA tapering that got me through withdrawals smoothly (even though I had a large tool kit of techniques, and used many of them while tapering).

 

hi

tell me please

did you taper all your drugs 10% a month?

so you didnt have withdrawall because of the slow taper?

thanx

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JanCarol   
JanCarol

Hey Lorin - 

 

I did dry cutting, so my tapers weren't exactly 10% per month.  If a taper was more (I think 15% was maximum cut on a few occasions), I would hold longer, or if I had any symptoms I would hold longer.  I came to trust that the holds were healing me, and that I would know when to cut.  I never went into full blown withdrawal, but I did have windows and waves, mostly emotional.

 

My withdrawals were in the 90's, when the docs were experimenting on me to find "the right cocktail" for my "diagnosis."  I had CT's, cold switches, and one doctor actually did cross tapers taking 2 months that were pretty symptom free.  When I decided that I wanted off the Wellbutrin, I would cut it in half, and suffer.  Then I'd increase it again, and suffer some more.  Nobody told me how it worked, until I found SA.

 

I do believe that the slow, careful taper is the best way to manage symptoms.  Notice I didn't say avoid them - but manage them.  I could control when my tapers were - so I could decide whether or not to decrease, or how long to hold - or - that my life was too stressful, and hold some more.

 

I believe in the method so much, that I work here to help others.  I don't have to, it's volunteer, unpaid work - but it would mean a lot to me if I could help people not suffer from these drugs, help people escape this awful trap.  The suffering from the drugs (and the way the doctors use them) is way too common, and if there were another way for these people to get help, I'd quit.  If there were a sea change in doctors, pharmacists, prescription benefit schemes, insurance, and pharmaceutical companies - and they stopped giving these drugs out like candy - I could leave.   But right now, SA is at the leading edge of helping people out of difficult drugs.  And I believe that the harm reduction method here works.  So I throw my back into it, and help.

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Lorin   
Lorin

Hey Lorin - 

 

I did dry cutting, so my tapers weren't exactly 10% per month.  If a taper was more (I think 15% was maximum cut on a few occasions), I would hold longer, or if I had any symptoms I would hold longer.  I came to trust that the holds were healing me, and that I would know when to cut.  I never went into full blown withdrawal, but I did have windows and waves, mostly emotional.

 

My withdrawals were in the 90's, when the docs were experimenting on me to find "the right cocktail" for my "diagnosis."  I had CT's, cold switches, and one doctor actually did cross tapers taking 2 months that were pretty symptom free.  When I decided that I wanted off the Wellbutrin, I would cut it in half, and suffer.  Then I'd increase it again, and suffer some more.  Nobody told me how it worked, until I found SA.

 

I do believe that the slow, careful taper is the best way to manage symptoms.  Notice I didn't say avoid them - but manage them.  I could control when my tapers were - so I could decide whether or not to decrease, or how long to hold - or - that my life was too stressful, and hold some more.

 

I believe in the method so much, that I work here to help others.  I don't have to, it's volunteer, unpaid work - but it would mean a lot to me if I could help people not suffer from these drugs, help people escape this awful trap.  The suffering from the drugs (and the way the doctors use them) is way too common, and if there were another way for these people to get help, I'd quit.  If there were a sea change in doctors, pharmacists, prescription benefit schemes, insurance, and pharmaceutical companies - and they stopped giving these drugs out like candy - I could leave.   But right now, SA is at the leading edge of helping people out of difficult drugs.  And I believe that the harm reduction method here works.  So I throw my back into it, and help.

So you did not have withdrawal symptoms at all?

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manymoretodays   
manymoretodays

Hi Lorin, 

 

I'm just thinking you should probably go ahead and do an official introduction/journal page.  I looked and couldn't find one in your topics.  JanCarol has given you some links up above in her replies to you which you might find helpful.  She can probably link you easily to the "how to do an introduction/journal" as well.  I tried to copy and paste but was unable to. 

 

You can go to Forums, and then to Introductions and updates, then go to the 2nd locked topic down(you can't comment on locked topics but can read)..........  to learn how to do this as well.

 

That's a good way to get more personalized information for your situation if you are interested in further "harm reduction" tapering advice and support.

 

I think.......that we all go through some withdrawal symptoms..........well, I can't speak for everyone in the world but.........with Lexapro and so many of the different classes of antidepressants.........given a few months or less of taking them even..........I think we do.  And it is good to be prepared and be safe with what you choose to do.

 

Best,

 

mmt

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Lorin   
Lorin

Hi Lorin, 

 

I'm just thinking you should probably go ahead and do an official introduction/journal page.  I looked and couldn't find one in your topics.  JanCarol has given you some links up above in her replies to you which you might find helpful.  She can probably link you easily to the "how to do an introduction/journal" as well.  I tried to copy and paste but was unable to. 

 

You can go to Forums, and then to Introductions and updates, then go to the 2nd locked topic down(you can't comment on locked topics but can read)..........  to learn how to do this as well.

 

That's a good way to get more personalized information for your situation if you are interested in further "harm reduction" tapering advice and support.

 

I think.......that we all go through some withdrawal symptoms..........well, I can't speak for everyone in the world but.........with Lexapro and so many of the different classes of antidepressants.........given a few months or less of taking them even..........I think we do.  And it is good to be prepared and be safe with what you choose to do.

 

Best,

 

mmt

I did not understand what is official introduction/journal?
  I document my withdrawal in my card. Can you see?
I can not taper slowly because of terrible side effects from the drug itself unfortunately :-(

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manymoretodays   
manymoretodays

Thanks ChessieCat.  Sorry about that.......I didn't realize that was Lorin's intro.  :wacko:

 

Okay Lorin.......yes I can see it now.  I did not realize that was your introduction/journal.  Looked like a lot of good information being shared with you there.  So that is your main page that can act as a journal for you......... as well as a record of where you were when you first arrived at SA..........also for questions and updates from you.

 

It looks like ChessieCat is working with you there as well.......... to help you understand the possibilities of what might be going on with you and your Lexapro, and give you more information to help guide your decisions.  She is one of the moderators here as is JanCarol.  They are excellent.

 

I'll try and check on in over there and see what's what when I get a chance.

 

Best,

 

mmt 

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freakZ0ne   
freakZ0ne

As far as anxiety is concerned, I have discovered an herb that does wonders for me. It's called mulungu, and it is the powdered bark of a tree that grows in Central and South America. It is said to be a potent as Valium and I can vouch for that. The great thing about it is there are no known side effects from using it. Not well-known in the U.S.,  but has been used by various ethnic groups and indigenous people for a very long time. Read all about mulungu.

 

I use a teaspoon of the dried bark powder put into a cup and a half of boiling water, then simmered for 15 minutes. Tastes fine, a bit earthy.

 

I'm curious to find out if people who formerly used Valium think it is comparable.

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JanCarol   
JanCarol

We generally don't recommend experiments.  Do you know whether it is metabolized in liver or kidney?   Does it hit the GABA receptors of the brain? (Yes, it does - so benzo sufferers should never touch it!)   Do you know if it reacts with any other supplements?   For example, it is not to be taken with blood pressure medicine.  That's what I found on a quick search.  

 

It's fine if one person wants to experiment on themselves, but recommending it for others has a higher standard of care.

Personally, I find that a magnesium chloride bath compares quite favorably to valium.    And it doesn't fiddle neurotransmitters, is supportive, and nourishing.  I have confidence recommending it to others.

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freakZ0ne   
freakZ0ne

Points well taken, JanCarol. Thanks for being rigorous about the need for safety regarding any supplement, since they could aggravate existing issues or even cause new ones. I will be more careful in the future and pass along evidence-based information rather than personal endorsements that aren't necessarily supported by facts.

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emergingfromhell   
emergingfromhell

Akathisia can be a withdrawal symptom and also a side effect of the medicine...it's often confused with anxiety, leading doctors to prescribe more of the SSRI or anti-psychotic, making the problem worse!! Realizing this saved me.

 

https://rxisk.org/akathisia/

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luvoxvictim   
luvoxvictim

Hmm, in my case, being on psych meds long term has damaged my sleep system.   Any anxiety I have is due to not finding any help from sleep doctors and trying everything I can to think of to solve the problem to no avail.

 

Be careful about blaming anxiety for long term difficulties people are having with meds.   Just because you found it may be true in your case doesn't mean it is applicable to other folks.

 

Hi, I thought I'd chime in here on your comment because I have had major sleep problems of like 13 years. I was 22 and had been on antidepressants since I was 10 and all of a sudden I started to realize that I couldn't sleep for more than 5 hours a night. Here I am 13 years later and I only sleep between 3 and 5 hours a night. I've taken every antidepressant and cold turkeyed most of them. I got off my last medication, luvox, 15 months ago and my sleep hasn't improved. I also have sleep apnea, which is mild, but I tried the Cpap and after 6 weeks it hadn't helped me get more sleep so I stopped using it. My AHI is 10 so it's not like I'm a bad case. The real sleep experts will tell you that chronic insomnia is a breathing problem. When I first learned this I realized I couldn't breathe through my nose. I started using nasal saline spray and after a week it started to really help my condition and I was able to sleep deeper and get maybe an extra half hour of sleep. If you can't breathe well through your nose try doing this and see how it goes? I guess I didn't realize how well one is supposed to breathe through their nose and then I went to an ENT and he told me I had a major problem. Hopefully this helps you. Let me know.

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b305m   
b305m

My life has been fine since I settled with my problems coming from anxiety, worth a shot. No need to start WW3 over this I said possible cure for some not for all

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manymoretodays   
manymoretodays

has anyone ever really taken the time to think about what's happening to them. I'm talking people that are "1-3" years out, have you guys ever thought that maybe you're in a severe anxiety loop ? I went 7 months thinking I was suffering from withdrawal before I figured out it could be anxiety, I tried a program to help with it and in less then a week I was almost symptom free. All withdrawal symptoms are also anxiety symptoms.

 

My life has been fine since I settled with my problems coming from anxiety, worth a shot. No need to start WW3 over this I said possible cure for some not for all

 

I didn't see any WW3 b305m.  A nice roundtable discussion.  You did say...."all withdrawal symptoms are also anxiety symptoms" as well as "possible cure for some".  Sometimes it's just ?semantics or wording .......IDK...........we do lack the non verbal cues and all.  I'm not sure what I would attribute all withdrawal symptoms to myself at this point........I just keep going, do the best I can, happy to have coping skills in place, and also to be open to new ones as well........as well as reaching my own truths I guess.......from considering it all......over time.......and with all the information that is so readily available.  Also so thankful to have my brain back........sheesh, the cognitive decline/distortion phase was hard, is so hard for many of us for awhile.  I am also just not real fond of any or all psych terms any more........such as depression, anxiety, bipolar, schizophrenia, and all the rest...........and there are many.

 

So......I enjoyed reading the different takes and viewpoints.  And glad you are well.  And do appreciate your sharing.

 

love, peace, healing, and growth

 

manymoretodays

 

okay.....well maybe a nice trapezoid table discussion....... :)

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music321   
music321
On 4/10/2017 at 11:38 PM, ProzacWasCreatedBySatan1 said:

Very possible for some, the only reason I don't think that is the case for me is that I still have a lot of physical pain, and alcohol feels way different to me. Physical withdrawl or not, I am interested in the program. What is it called?

 

Disclaimer:  I'm not saying that anxiety is part of your problem; this is a general statement.  The presence of real problems doesn't preclude anxiety.  Consider this analogy:  You have a cut wound on your hand.  Every time you pick up a pencil, your hand starts bleeding.  Someone suggests to you that the reason your hand keeps bleeding is because you keep picking up pencils.  "Nonsense!", you say, "I've picked up pencils my entire life, and not once has doing so ever caused my hand to bleed."  To this I say, "In the past, your hand was never injured.  Now it is.  Now, every time you pick up that pencil, it rubs against the freshly formed scab, and removes it.  This causes the hand to bleed.  The scab is constantly rubbed off, and the hand never had a chance to heal, even though you cut it three months ago.  If you simply stop picking items up for a week, the hand will be healed enough so that you can pick up pencils without a problem."

 

In other words, perhaps our healthy brains can deal with anxiety pretty well.  However, a brain that has been injured by withdrawal is constantly re-irritated by the anxiety, which would ordinarily be quite insignificant.  Your physical withdrawal symptoms are real, as are mine.  Maybe if we could relax for a little while, we would heal.

 

I had a major setback in October.  I have recovered pretty well (it's now late July).  By coincidence, a friend had a discontinuation event that triggered massive symptoms around the same time.  She is no closer to being better.  She doesn't get any cardiovascular exercise, and is under massively more stress than I am.  It wouldn't surprise me if this is why she hasn't recovered.

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apathetic   
apathetic

Did I think about it ? Yes.
Did I try something similar ? Yes, like everything else that's possible to try.

Why is that not the case ?
I suffer from typical withdrawal syndrome; At first, I was very confused. I have amnesia when it comes to my personality and I don't know who I was before. I've lost everything in my life that there is to lose when it comes to mental health.
Cognitive abilities: that I struggled with the most during withdrawal. I couldn't concentrate at all, I couldn't think because it felt like I couldn't form thoughts in my mind, I still, sadly, have that feeling like everything in my mind is foggy, when someone was talking to me - I couldn't understand what they were talking about at all and I couldn't process moderately complex sentences that fast like a normal person would do it without any problem (hey, guys, good freaking news, this got better after months of trying).
Got physical problems: stomach problems, terrible colds, higher body temperature, problems with swallowing, couldn't breathe properly through nose and couldn't feel a smell of things without even having a runny nose, my vision became worse and many other things.

Mental health issues: obsessions and compulsions, paying a lot of money for testing my health because of obsessions so I could maybe even call that hypochondria, severe depressive episode where I thought that I would live in that horrible state forever (most of us think like that because the process of healing is very slow) and that made me feel suicidal, high anxiety levels, panic attacks etc.

You have no idea how glad am I that you feel a lot better. That's truly wonderful and awesome. Keep going, okay ? I'm only a bit older than you, I've been on medications for 4 years and I've changed around 20 medications. It's good that you're trying to find what might be going on with you and that you tried to help us. We appreciate it.

 

And again, I'm so glad that you're not experiencing this. Have a great life!

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music321   
music321

I was thinking about this some more, and have a suggestion.  Discussing the merits of the anxiety hypothesis will only get us so far.  In the interest of trying to determine whether the anxiety hypothesis is valid or not, I suggest that we post whether anxiety/fibromyalgia-type issues were part of life before post-acute withdrawal became an issue.  For me, they were.  

 

I believe (I am not stating anything as fact.  I am stating my current understanding as it applies to me) that there are different types of anxiety/fibromyalgia problems.  I believe that there is a subset of anxiety that causes physical problems.  This anxiety might be manifested now, or it might have manifested in the past to such an extreme degree that it caused changes in the way our minds/brains process information.  Fight or flight centers in our brains might be hyper-aroused so that stimuli such as physical injury or withdrawal symptoms might affect some of us more than others.  

 

I will admit, I am holding onto this hypothesis because it's my last hope.  I have tried since 2012 to discontinue Prozac, but am still on it due to withdrawal symptoms that manifest whenever I try to taper off.  I have noticed that during periods of high stress, withdrawal symptoms become MUCH worse than when I'm not under as much stress.  From a purely physiological perspective, this makes sense.  Stress is not just a subjective emotional state, it's also associated with the release of various chemicals by various tissues.  Cortisol, for instance, floods the body (including the brain) when we are under stress.  Cortisol alters the parameters of many neurological functions.  If neurons are already dysregulated, what would be the effect of introducing cortisol to these neurons?

 

I might be right, I might be wrong.  I think my suggestion regarding posting whether anxiety/fibromyalgia-type issues were with us prior to Post-acute withdrawal would allow for a more complete picture to emerge.

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