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Pennylane34

Pennylane34 My recovery story 2011- 2017

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DaveWales

Hi penny, can you give me more details on your environmental illness's please. Like, what did you suffer from? How bad, what did you do to help it etc? 

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DaveWales

Also Penny, I too was put on this poison as a teenager at the advice of my parents. Out relationship has been great all through my life. However, now I know the damage this drug has caused Im really struggling not to shout at them "WTF were you thinking!!! you've ruined my life you dumb Bas$ards". I am also suffering PTSD about this aspect now, and wondered if you had any advice or anything? Anyway, I hope your doing well and getting better each day. 

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Carley
On 2017-04-20 at 11:51 PM, Distraut said:

Tootsieroll, that is SO reassuring to hear!  Thank you for giving me hope that this will clear with time!

 

How long did it continue for you?  Did it gradually diminish?  How do you test for cortisol levels?

 

Sorry for all the questions, but any information you could give me about this horrible affliction would be most welcome.  I hate to see him suffer like this.

I have struggled with OCD it is horrible. Exposure and Response Therapy was very helpful. Guided meditation is fantastic. I would find one on youtube, lay in bed and just listen. Another thing is to find a hobby that uses both sides of the brain. Something that you can't think about OCD while doing. Cross stitching worked well for me because I had to focus and count stitches.

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Pennylane34

In response to everyone's questions about my physical condition.  I am actually finding out that antidepressants act as anti-histamines and change the gut lining by lowering histamine response and producing DAO (daimine oxidase).  When we come off SSRI's most of us experience brain fog due to us not producing our own DAO for years and years.  Therefore we get cloudy or foggy/allergic reactions to things that we normally never had prior.  (Hence people developing food intolerances, acne, IBS after coming off meds) Healing the body of histamine intolerance is actually healing the damage done by SSRI's.  It's one piece of the puzzle.  And has been the biggest one for me as my physical body continues to heal itself with my lifestyle changes and diet.  I am now 6.5 years off of these meds <3  And I still am learning things as I go!

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musk

Hi Pennylane, I want to ask you something.

 

So, antihistamines can help us to heal, or at least to better cope with the symptoms of withdrawal? Is this a correct deduction? or is it ... silly? :wacko:

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freespirit
1 hour ago, Pennylane34 said:

In response to everyone's questions about my physical condition.  I am actually finding out that antidepressants act as anti-histamines and change the gut lining by lowering histamine response and producing DAO (daimine oxidase).  When we come off SSRI's most of us experience brain fog due to us not producing our own DAO for years and years.  Therefore we get cloudy or foggy/allergic reactions to things that we normally never had prior.  (Hence people developing food intolerances, acne, IBS after coming off meds) Healing the body of histamine intolerance is actually healing the damage done by SSRI's.  It's one piece of the puzzle.  And has been the biggest one for me as my physical body continues to heal itself with my lifestyle changes and diet.  I am now 6.5 years off of these meds <3  And I still am learning things as I go!

 

I've found the histamine connection to be a very essential piece in the healing process as well. Eating a low histamine diet, as well as some supportive supplements (Vit C, Quercetin, Tart Cherry, probiotic) have been very helpful. Are you willing to share what you're doing to try and heal the histamine intolerance? For me, things are much better than they were. But I completely stay away from high histamine foods and only do a few things once in awhile such as dairy or gluten. Medication, acupuncture and other natural treatments are supportive too...but I'm still dealing with it 3 1/2 years later.

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freespirit
1 hour ago, musk said:

Hi Pennylane, I want to ask you something.

 

So, antihistamines can help us to heal, or at least to better cope with the symptoms of withdrawal? Is this a correct deduction? or is it ... silly? :wacko:

Antihistamines further deplete the DAO, so it is not a good solution for healing. "You would think that histamine blockers would help, but in reality they can deplete the DAO enzyme leaving you with only the option to take antihistamines for the rest of your life." http://drhoustonanderson.com/histamine-intolerance/

 

I found antihistamines gave a horrible rebound effect--both physically and emotionally. Others may have other experiences or opinions, but trying to heal by using another drug isn't the way I'd go.

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Bluebird2009
On 12/04/2017 at 10:08 PM, Pennylane34 said:

Hi all!

 

Just wanted to check in here and say hello to everyone- new and old!  I am an older member of the old group back on Paxil Progress and I decided to come on here and share my story since I haven't been on in quite a few years.

 

Anyhow- I hope this provides you all with HOPE.  As I know in the beginning/throws of my withdrawal journey- HOPE-from the stories of others are the only things that kept me going some days.

 

So to provide you with some background- I was always a rambunctious, vivacious, fun loving personality- with a tendency to be a little anxious-with mild OCD- and sometimes even a little depressed.  But looking back now- I think a lot of that could've been chalked up to nutritional allergies, deficiencies and just overall bad sleep/lifestyle habits.  Hindsight is definitely 20/20.  However back in 1999, when I was 13- my parents decided to put me on Zoloft, which was a new drug on the market back then.  I immediately was calmer, sleepier and somewhat content with everything and everyone around me.  Then from there I went on to Lexapro, then Celexa then ultimately Prozac.  This continued for about 12 years.  Then at around the age of 25 (after multiple brief failed attempts to quit SSRI's)  I just decided it was 'time.'  The years I was on SSRI's I was happy, content and sleepy.  ALL THE TIME.  Most people would say "well what's wrong with that?"  I guess a small part of my soul longed for a life that had a full range of emotions and an appreciation for the ups and downs in life that force us to grow as people.  I was ready to look beyond my protective shield of antidepressants and face the world head on.  And I knew this was going to be a long road and a process but I knew I had to do it- there was no looking back.

 

October 2011 is when I took my last dose of Prozac-  I felt fine for about a week or so following that.  And then BAM.  I was hit with 24/7 brain fog, EXTREME anxiety, suicidal depression, allergies, insomnia, headaches, fatigue, bloating, adrenal/thyroid dysfunction, low grade fever, hair loss and OCD. 

 

I was literally clinging to the thought that 'this will get better, it's just drug withdrawal' for the first three months - changing everything about my life to help me- my diet, my sleeping habits, getting a less stressful job, etc etc.  But withdrawal was like a black cloak around me back in those days- it was complete misery and I was so hopeless and helpless back then- NOBODY- and I mean NOBODY understood other than the folks in these forums.

 

In early 2012 I linked up with a TCM doctor and he got me on a regime of vitamins, supplements, Chinese herbs and Bach Flower essences- this did very little at the time- but I clung to the little it did do as hope that underneath all this muck- I could be a 'normal' person one day.  I struggled on...

Later in 2012 I was introduced to acupuncture- that brought another glimmer of hope into my life and pushed me a little bit further along.  I was still underwater- but I was now starting to swim to the surface.

 

In early 2013- I linked up with a homeopath and she took my case and I worked with her consistently for about 2 solid years after that until mid- 2015.

 

Around late 2014/early 2015 I started to realize that I was not needing all these 'interventions' as often as I did in the beginning of my journey.  I could go months and months without any acupuncture or homeopathy or even a vitamin supplement and feel FINE.

 

It was GREAT!

 

Nowadays,  I am fairly 'normal.'  I have more good days than bad days.  However though- even though my emotional/mental capacities returned- my physical body never fully recovered.

 

I have chronic fatigue/adrenal/thyroid dysfunction.  I have pretty serious food/environmental allergies that forces me to have to be EXTREMELY diligent with my diet or else I suffer bad reactions.  I am HYPERSENSITIVE to vitamins, supplements, caffeine, alcohol, you name it, etc etc etc.  This is all in direct correlation to my coming off of SSRI's.  So it's not all roses- but- I do have hope that sometime in the future these will become less bothersome and hopefully dissipate with time.  Only time will tell though.

 

Anyhow, I just wanted to share my experience and recovery - as my journey may look different from yours- we are all trying to reach the same goal in the end!  

To be happy and healthy!

 

All the best now and in the future!

Penny

 

Hi Penny, it seems that lots of people on Prozac seem to have the reactions to meds, supplements and foods. I'm 2 years nearly off prozac and can't tolerate any meds or supplements which is very scary. I also started having reactions while on the drug and that's why I came off but I really regret it as my anxiety and stress levels are off the scale still at this length of time off. I don't feel I will ever recover. Glad you are doing well 😊

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Peachy
On 4/20/2017 at 8:46 PM, Tootsieroll said:

 

Sorry if I am hijacking this thread but I just wanted to say that OCD was my nemesis during my whole process.  Mine were both mental and physical compulsions so the only way I could believe the improvements was to see the physical improve with time.  When I cold turkeyed each time, my OCD would skyrocket off the charts and it lead to a lot of anxiety and amplify all the other symptoms when I couldn't stop the repetitive thinking/actions.  Well, I'm here to say it does end and it does abate as one heals.  I am a bit of a perfectionist and that will always be with me but the OCD that was experienced during the chemical detox/withdrawal was unreal.  I couldn't believe a mind could work in such a broken record way.  Now I know it can, only because I experienced it and I also know that it does get better...because of where I am today.  What helped me was getting my cortisol tested and once I found out it was high, I used Relora to continuously stabilize it.  It didn't completely eliminate the OCD like time did, but it sure did help during the rough moments.  I wish your son a speedy recovery.

tootsieroll,

This is my worst symptom as well, and I never had it until I started going on and off SSRI's cold turkey. How long did it take before the OCD abated for you? How much Relora did you take? Did you take it regularly? My ocd is in the form of scary harm intrusive thoughts. Its the worst thing in the world. 

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Peachy
On 2/16/2018 at 12:15 PM, freespirit said:

 

I've found the histamine connection to be a very essential piece in the healing process as well. Eating a low histamine diet, as well as some supportive supplements (Vit C, Quercetin, Tart Cherry, probiotic) have been very helpful. Are you willing to share what you're doing to try and heal the histamine intolerance? For me, things are much better than they were. But I completely stay away from high histamine foods and only do a few things once in awhile such as dairy or gluten. Medication, acupuncture and other natural treatments are supportive too...but I'm still dealing with it 3 1/2 years later.

Hi freespirit,

how are you doing now with the histamine intolerance? Any more advice you found helpful on healing this aspect? I also see that you used quite a few supplements, and especially CBD oil. Were you ever sensitive to supplements? When were you able to start inocorporating these? Especially CBD oil.. in what way is this helpful for you? You never had reactions to it? I feel that I was reacting negatively to it, but then again, it could have just been withdrawls. I am also one person that can't even take probiotics without reacting. UGGGHHHHHH!

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Itzakadoozee
39 minutes ago, Peachy said:

Hi freespirit,

how are you doing now with the histamine intolerance? Any more advice you found helpful on healing this aspect? I also see that you used quite a few supplements, and especially CBD oil. Were you ever sensitive to supplements? When were you able to start inocorporating these? Especially CBD oil.. in what way is this helpful for you? You never had reactions to it? I feel that I was reacting negatively to it, but then again, it could have just been withdrawls. I am also one person that can't even take probiotics without reacting. UGGGHHHHHH!

I also had a terrible reaction to Cbd and probiotic supplements.

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Tootsieroll
1 hour ago, Peachy said:

tootsieroll,

This is my worst symptom as well, and I never had it until I started going on and off SSRI's cold turkey. How long did it take before the OCD abated for you? How much Relora did you take? Did you take it regularly? My ocd is in the form of scary harm intrusive thoughts. Its the worst thing in the world. 

 

I'm 4 years out and there's still a touch of OCD with me today but it is bearable unlike those horrendous acute days initially.  But I went through a benzo withdrawal after my taper off SSRIs so that tacked on another couple of years of healing for me.  If you are doing a straight forward taper than you can possibly heal quicker.  Keep in mind that it wasn't OCD all day every day.  It fluctuated. And even though healing isn't linear there were days where it wasn't as bothersome and gradually the intensity lessened with time.  It never stays the same forever.  It does improve.  For Relora, I would sometimes take a quarter or half of a 300mg pill.  At my absolute worst I would take a 300mg pill before bed nightly. Like with any supplement, test a small amount and see how your body reacts to it.  I started with quarter of a pill and if nothing significant, I would try half a pill next night.

 

EDIT:  I missed the part of your signature that says you are still on Lexapro.  It's been a while since I've read the contraindications with Relora but I believe it cannot be taken with an antidepressant.  I was off every medication when I used it.  I think it is best to speak to a naturopath who can supervise you if you do decide to take it.  You would have to do more research on relora and see what other people well versed on it can tell you about taking it with an SSRI.  Your Lexapro is very low but I think 5mg is equivalent to 10mg Celexa.  Still low though.  Best of luck.

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Pennylane34
On 2/16/2018 at 1:43 PM, musk said:

Hi Pennylane, I want to ask you something.

 

So, antihistamines can help us to heal, or at least to better cope with the symptoms of withdrawal? Is this a correct deduction? or is it ... silly? :wacko:

 No, antihistamines further suppress the bodies ability to make it's own DAO and in the long run can really mess your system up even worse.  This is my opinion/experience and what I've gathered from researching the topic.  Low histamine diet/elimination diet with some added quercitin, vit C, coQ10- has helped me.  In small doses and rotationally.  Everyone's path is different- everyone's environmental and physical allergies/sensitivities are different.  I think it's best to journal what you eat and how you feel each day and the days following to see if you notice patterns.  That's what I did and what works for me... ❤️

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LexAnger

Hi again Penny,

thank you you so much for coming back and spending time to share your experience and helping others!

 

i lately got extreme reactions to a few things I never ever had problem with while on the meds, first megnusium, then MRI, and now MSG, the reaction symptoms from MSG is very much like a much more severe type that I had to lexapro updose-- severe brain fog, burned and blurred brain, severe  needling pain, burning and swollen, extreme stiffness just to name a few major ones. 

 

Can you share some of your experience if any about the reaction to food/ supplement, such as symptoms, how long the reaction lasted etc? What are the environment sensitivities that you are still having now, and if they are better somehow?

 

many thanks!

lex

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Altostrata

Some of the tricyclic antidepressants are antihistamines.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/39202
 

Quote

 

Mayo Clin Proc. 1979 Oct;54(10):669-74.

Tricyclic antidepressants and histamine H1 receptors.

Richelson E.

 

Abstract

Tricyclic antidepressants and some structurally related compounds were tested for their ability to antagonize histamine H1 and muscarinic acetylcholine receptors of cultured mouse neuroblastoma cells. As a group, tertiary amine tricyclic antidepressants tended to be more potent than secondary amine drugs at both receptors. The most potent antihistamine, doxepin hydrocholoride, was about 4 times more potent than amitriptyline hydrochloride, about 800 times more potent than diphenhydramine hydrochloride, and about 8,000 times more potent than desipramine hydrochloride, the least potent tricyclic antidepressant at both the histamine H1 and the muscarinic acetylcholine receptors. All tricyclic drugs except desipramine hydrochloride were more potent as antihistamines than as anticholinergics. Doxepin hydrochloride and amitriptyline hydrochloride may be the most potent antihistamines known, and the antihistaminic potencies of these and the other tricyclic antidepressant drugs may relate directly to their ability to cause sedation and drowsiness in patients.

 

 

The tricyclic antidepressants are "first generation" antidepressants. Most people here have been on second-generation antidepressants: SSRIs, SNRIs, etc.

 

Of second-generation antidepressants, only paroxetine has any significant antihistamine action.

 

The newer antidepressants may disrupt digestive processes because they interfere with the serotonin system, which is important in digestion, but not because they are antihistaminic and depress DAO production.

 

I don't believe anyone knows the effect of serotonin downregulation on DAO.

 

Personally, I went off paroxetine, but I didn't develop histamine intolerance until 11 years after I went off it. I do not believe paroxetine had anything to do with my histamine intolerance, my gut was injured by aspirin.

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freespirit

Some of the atypical AD do have an antihistamine effect:

"Mirtazapine (Remeron) is a noradrenergic and specific serotonergic antidepressant (NaSSA), it doesn’t have effects as monoamine reuptake inhibitor.

A significant feature is its effect as histamine 1 antagonist."

https://psychopharmacologyinstitute.com/antidepressants/mirtazapine-essentials-every-prescriber-know/

 

1. Desyrel (Trazodone)

Approved in 1981, this antidepressant works as an antagonist at all of its receptor sites except 5-HT1A, where it acts as a partial agonist. It also works as an inhibitor of the serotonin transporters (5-HTT). This drug is largely considered an SARI (Serotonin Antagonist and Reuptake Inhibitor) and works similar to the drug Nefazodone.

In other words, this drug helps increase serotonin levels in the brain (reuptake inhibitor). It also blocks excess serotonin (at 5HT2A and 5HT2C receptors) and excess norepinephrine (at Alpha 1 noradrenergic receptors). The antihistamine properties of this drug are considered to pack a powerful punch.

https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/08/13/atypical-antidepressants-list-of-examples/

 

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