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Lilu

How do you convince those who are Pro-psychiatric drugs of the truth about them?

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Lilu   
Lilu

Most people know others whose quality of life has been changed by going on psychiatric medication. When I try to tell them all that I have learned in a decade of research and personal experience about antidepressant withdrawal and long term use, I am met with shock and disgust.  After all don't I want people to get better?

 

The more scientific types start demands for peer reviewed journals describing double blind clinical studies. They do not accept non scientific sites. I was told that Dr.Healy's site is not reputable. I also directed them to this website and madinamerica.com

 

We here know, that there are no studies that have been done, due to the fact that the whole industry is in denial about these drugs.

 

What is the best way to respond to those demanding valid research and proof?

 

This is the comment I got after I said that the chemical imbalance theory is a myth:

Viktoria Dolgorukava the chemical reason for depression is that some people don't produce enough seratonin or don't absorb it correctly. there is a very clear chemical reason for this. so in essense people who are on anti depressents already have faulty wiring, this is why the depression medications help. If you are talking about the need for increased dosage overtime there has been o studies that i am aware of htat have shown this. on the contrary people who stay on anti depressents seem to have no long term affect on the brain as has been demonstrated by multiple brain scans.
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17884394_10210656588305835_4636313254175
Viktoria Dolgorukava my father is a leading researcher in teh field of depression and since I was 12 years old i have attended medical lectures, including in the fellowship program he used runs at nyu. I also have a very high functioning IQ and the combination of the two make my knowledge of this more than a normal layperson's knowledge. and yet, i can tell you, i know very little. this is just one person's opinion which is irrelevant when it comes to the area of big science. but having attended hundreds of meetings by researchers, even those paid by big pharma i can guarantee you they are not looking to screw people over so they can make more. most doctors whoever is paying them, especially very highly qualified doctors are more interested in making real scientific progress than in getting paid. if they could come up with a therapy that didn't involve drugs but produced the same effects, so they can publish and be famous, they would.

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JamesMoore   
JamesMoore

Hi Lilu

 

You ask an excellent question, one which I have asked of myself too but I do have a couple of suggestions

 

Firstly, there are some that no matter how much peer reviewed, evidence based studies you put in front of them, will not be challenged on this, it may be because they are scared to face up to the fact that a treatment they thought was effective is actually nothing but a lie. This group includes many (but not all) doctors, psychiatrists and of course those that work in Pharma.

 

This is a good article that briefly debunks the myth: https://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2014/09/13/low-serotonin-levels-dont-cause-depression/

 

If they have an open mind, get them to read Anatomy of an Epidemic written by Robert Whitaker, it's written from an investigative journalism point of view and it's very easy to read and understand and its very engaging because of that. I think it should be on the standard reading list for anyone going into medicine as a career.

 

If books aren't for them, and not wanting to self promote, but I have had a lot of very positive feedback on my new podcast because it's real people talking about real experiences. I don't think there are many open minded folks that could listen to this podcast and still say that they felt drugs for mood disorders are what we should be doing to people.

 

If they did want to listen in, they can listen in iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/lets-talk-withdrawal/id1212789850

 

Or here on any device: http://jfmoore.libsyn.com

 

Good luck, those that seek change always leave themselves open to criticism by the establishment but its still worth pushing ahead with what you know and feel is right.

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powerback   
powerback

Hi lilu,u make an interesting and valid point about trying to convince others of the dangers of these drugs but u are only wasting your time and energy even reading these reply's u get back .

Everybody is entitled to there opinion but what has happened to us is of the highest seriousness and there is just way too much negative research out there to not believe there damaging .

 

ok if they do work for some but there are way too many negative stories out there to ignore .

we really shouldn't be getting into a dialogue with anyone that hasn't been on them its just too upsetting for us .

the future is an open dialogue with patients and doctors and therapists and having ones suffering believed .

I totally respect u wanting to get the message out there but we are affected to much in a negative way  in the responses we get back.

this isn't the weather we talking about ,we have been totally let down by people and professions we trust and for doctors to just turn around and say these don't work for u isn't enough .the term iatrogenic is totally real .

Its not just drugs ,I went to my doctor about the flu and all he told me was take vitamin c ,u can google that.people need to wake up and educate themselves more . 

This site and people like yourself is were I get my solace .

total respect to all  

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AwareButStruggling   
AwareButStruggling

This has all happened before Whitaker's and Breggin's books, etc. but this is my story while I wasn't on any medications.

 

Well, it's complicated. Ways back, when I was 21, I had a horrendous panic attack brought on by a college project and me putting a lot of pressure on myself. I was suffering from some stomach pain for a month, although nothing was found, but this time, it evolved into a full-on heartburn/chest pain episode. So, the family took me to a cardiologist who dsimissed any heart problems due to my age (I was actually fit & healthy), but when I asked if I needed something to calm me down, he reacted so strongly that it just made the panic attack worse. He said something like "if you take one of THOSE pills, pretty soon, the whsole bottle will not be enough". I felt deeply ashamed by the experienced, and also profoundly traumatized. I'd never taken benzodiazepines in that sort of way, ever. So, while the doctor had a good point, I didn't trust him because he reacted to my panic attack with fear and blame, and basically gave me the worst case scenario of what would happen. But there was no real education on the matter, no explanation.

 

The dialogue was basically this:

 

Me: I am afraid

Doctor: What are you afraid of? (in a heightened, irritated voice)

Me: I don't know. I don't know. I had chest pain

Doctor: You're too young for a heart attack.

Me: I don't know what's happening, I was doing well the year before, riding my bicycle. I have a lot less energy now

Doctor: Well, that's your own fault

Me: Do I need something to calm me down

Doctor: If I give you anything, pretty soon the whole bottle won't be enough

Me: Feeling ashamed. Didn't say anything

Doctor: You need professional help. Your family isn't enough

Me: Thinking what kind of professional help. Too afraid to ask at this point. 

       Went out of his office, feeling foolish and inadequate, feeling judged.

 

A couple of months later, I started talking to a college counselor and my psychology instructor. It helped tremendously 

 

****

 

So, my advice to others who want to warn someone else about the dangers of any psychotropics is NOT to do it from the position of fear and/or blame. 

 

Also, people sometimes like the theory of chemical imbalance, because it makes them feel safer rather than dealing with underlying traumas and emotional obstacles that may be what's driving them to the psychiatric drugs in the first place.

 

I believe it's just as dangerous to dismiss someone's issues right out of the gate, as it is for the doctor to prescribe psych meds as a first-line treatment, without inquiring about the person's situation in life.

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powerback   
powerback

This has all happened before Whitaker's and Breggin's books, etc. but this is my story while I wasn't on any medications.

 

Well, it's complicated. Ways back, when I was 21, I had a horrendous panic attack brought on by a college project and me putting a lot of pressure on myself. I was suffering from some stomach pain for a month, although nothing was found, but this time, it evolved into a full-on heartburn/chest pain episode. So, the family took me to a cardiologist who dsimissed any heart problems due to my age (I was actually fit & healthy), but when I asked if I needed something to calm me down, he reacted so strongly that it just made the panic attack worse. He said something like "if you take one of THOSE pills, pretty soon, the whsole bottle will not be enough". I felt deeply ashamed by the experienced, and also profoundly traumatized. I'd never taken benzodiazepines in that sort of way, ever. So, while the doctor had a good point, I didn't trust him because he reacted to my panic attack with fear and blame, and basically gave me the worst case scenario of what would happen. But there was no real education on the matter, no explanation.

 

The dialogue was basically this:

 

Me: I am afraid

Doctor: What are you afraid of? (in a heightened, irritated voice)

Me: I don't know. I don't know. I had chest pain

Doctor: You're too young for a heart attack.

Me: I don't know what's happening, I was doing well the year before, riding my bicycle. I have a lot less energy now

Doctor: Well, that's your own fault

Me: Do I need something to calm me down

Doctor: If I give you anything, pretty soon the whole bottle won't be enough

Me: Feeling ashamed. Didn't say anything

Doctor: You need professional help. Your family isn't enough

Me: Thinking what kind of professional help. Too afraid to ask at this point. 

       Went out of his office, feeling foolish and inadequate, feeling judged.

 

A couple of months later, I started talking to a college counselor and my psychology instructor. It helped tremendously 

 

****

 

So, my advice to others who want to warn someone else about the dangers of any psychotropics is NOT to do it from the position of fear and/or blame. 

 

Also, people sometimes like the theory of chemical imbalance, because it makes them feel safer rather than dealing with underlying traumas and emotional obstacles that may be what's driving them to the psychiatric drugs in the first place.

 

I believe it's just as dangerous to dismiss someone's issues right out of the gate, as it is for the doctor to prescribe psych meds as a first-line treatment, without inquiring about the person's situation in life.

 

totally agree with you and as for the doctor ,they are so arrogant and self-righteous its god like power that totally gets in the way of them having an open mind past what they've studied .

A great film called patch Adams sums them up .beautiful movie [totally recommend ]     

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JamesMoore   
JamesMoore

I completely understand being frightened by a professional, my psychiatrist scared me into taking the drugs by telling me if I didn't I'd go into steep decline and be admitted to psychiatric hospital. They told me that the drugs would fix my chemical imbalance and I'd be fine as long as I stayed on them. Long story short, these drugs have completely destroyed the last five years of my life and I wish I'd have been told the truth back then, that would have been the best thing that my doctor could have done for me.

 

I believe it's unethical and unprofessional to mislead patients, the guiding principle should be informed consent at all times. Where psychiatric drugs are concerned, many people are being told nothing like the truth.

 

If someone feels that they get benefit from a psychiatric drug, I would never try to convince them to stop, but for anyone considering taking one, I'd recommend they get the facts first and not just rely on their doctors advice. An informed patient makes better choices that impact both short term and longer term health.

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btdt   
btdt

"I believe it's unethical and unprofessional to mislead patients, the guiding principle should be informed consent at all times. Where psychiatric drugs are concerned, many people are being told nothing like the truth."

 

and on and on and on we go year after year decade after decade... this is a very old story

 

to answer your question we don't convince other to not take the drugs... they take them anyway and your position on the matter does not count and by the time they sort out you were right they are too messed up to ever recall what you said and if they do it does not matter. 

 

we don't convince people of the truth of these drugs the machines that sell them cannot be beat this is obvious to me now. 

 

I am sorry you got caught in the web good thing is your getting out hopefully with out too much long term damage ... if your not too damaged you can still have a life... but not everybody is that lucky.  Know it and proceed accordingly. 

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Lilu   
Lilu

I feel a strong duty to warn people about Psychiatry and psychiatric drugs, but it always backfires against me. I was in a Facebook group, where the administrator posted a poll asking people Which of these drugs have you tried? Ugh.

I spoke out, and got attacked beyond belief with statements such as, "I personally know people who would not be alive today if it weren't for antidepressants!" I was accused of stigmatizing, judging, peddling pseudoscience and conspiracy theories.  I was accused of shaming those who have to take these "life saving" medicines. 
Every link I provided was labeled pseudoscience.  I convinced no one. Instead I only triggered withdrawal-aquired- PTSD. I became so anxious, I couldn't sleep most of the night. I have been flooded with trauma memories of all that I went through during my withdrawal, and this has triggered a worsening of my movement disorder, Functional Myoclonus, which I also acquired at the height of my withdrawal, but with the added stress of "fighting" with doctors and social workers to get them to understand that I was going through withdrawal, instead of suddenly being diagnosed as Bipolar II and Borderline.  They all wanted to put me in to a psychiatric facility. I am lucky that no matter how "crazy" I got, no matter how sleep deprived I was, I could still stand up to them with reason and logic.

 

I am so angry about what I went through.  What was it all for? I feel a duty to inform the unsuspecting public. But I'm nobody in their eyes. Just some unfortunate person who had a bad experience with antidepressants, who is now spreading dangerous lies about medicine that could save someone's life. I feel powerless in the face of the Pharma Machine. Especially without a PhD or an MD behind my name.  But even those people get bashed by their peers for not providing peer reviewed studies and articles. 

I found this amazing article that is written by an MD, that sums psychiatric myths that most medical practitioners and patients alike believe. And yet, there are doctors who are criticizing him in the comments.  It's like you can't win with this. Will we ever?

https://www.madinamerica.com/2016/01/duty-to-warn-14-lies-that-our-psychiatry-professors-in-medical-school-taught-us/#comment-107267

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AwareButStruggling   
AwareButStruggling

Ever seen the BuzzFeed parody called "My Pill Journey"?. Unfortunately, for many people, this is not fiction  :( . I think that a lot of people (myself included), become so suggestible while on these meds/or getting off them, that it's really hard for people to even entertain the alternative viewpoints.

 

https://youtu.be/0eV1o86_DB8

 

I like the nicely done rebuttal on it:

 

https://youtu.be/QQwklLql1j0

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Lilu   
Lilu

Hi lilu,u make an interesting and valid point about trying to convince others of the dangers of these drugs but u are only wasting your time and energy even reading these reply's u get back .

Everybody is entitled to there opinion but what has happened to us is of the highest seriousness and there is just way too much negative research out there to not believe there damaging .

 

ok if they do work for some but there are way too many negative stories out there to ignore .

we really shouldn't be getting into a dialogue with anyone that hasn't been on them its just too upsetting for us .

the future is an open dialogue with patients and doctors and therapists and having ones suffering believed .

I totally respect u wanting to get the message out there but we are affected to much in a negative way  in the responses we get back.

this isn't the weather we talking about ,we have been totally let down by people and professions we trust and for doctors to just turn around and say these don't work for u isn't enough .the term iatrogenic is totally real .

Its not just drugs ,I went to my doctor about the flu and all he told me was take vitamin c ,u can google that.people need to wake up and educate themselves more . 

This site and people like yourself is were I get my solace .

total respect to all  

Thanks, I completely agree with you, especially after getting into a major argument about this in my Facebook group, and having all my comments deleted by the girl who runs the group and was on my friend's list. That's over with.

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btdt   
btdt

 

now that is refreshing :) clarity is an amazing thing... 

 

I only wish she had suggested SA... 

 

Whoever she is I hope she stays well and keeps going. I think I love her I really do... 

peace all

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btdt   
btdt

There is some hope too in genetic testing it could give us some clues as to drug reactions ect. 

Tho the FDA has blocked 23 and me from doing genetic problems with drug other programs are offering the service so with a bit of cash anyone can find out what drugs they should never take.  This could help and we can always hope new things will come down the line to progress the true science of this situation that will forever shut down this racket.  I hope it comes soon. 

peace

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