ANR: my intro and story

[ANR]

 

Hello Everyone,

 

(Long post, read at leisure)

 

I am new to this website and also new to forums. I hope I have posted my intro in the right place. Also hoping that reading this could help some of the users to not do the mistakes I've done. 

 

I'm 28 years old and I live in India. When I was 12 I lost my mom to brain cancer and the following year my dad passed away from another illness. I was put to a boarding school (like a residential school) and completed my schooling and degree here. During this time I developed depersonalization due to repressed trauma and stress and as a result I got major depression in August 2010. It was so melancholy and scary and I did not know what it was. So I visit a psychiatrist who put me on sertraline and clonazepham. I was in bliss for 3 months. These drugs made me high. Little did I know how dangerous they were.

 

Once I thought I was alright, I stopped them cold turkey after 3 months. Then all the problems started. Hallucinations, OCD, sleep problems, head pressure, etc. I consulted many other psychiatrists who only made it worse by misdiagnosing me with schizophrenia, psychosis.. now I know they were withdrawal symptoms.

 

In 2013 I consulted another doctor who put me on 10mg escitalopram. I took it for a year and on my own, this time, tapered it over a period of one year. The drug had taken away all the little emotions that I had. Escitalopram worked for depression but gave me anhedonia and fatigue. I never had these before. Now I know why I felt good on sertraline but not escitalopram. Though both are ssri's, Sertraline also works on dopamine along with serotonin and prevents it's reuptake.

 

Anyway, once I was off these I started exercising and somehow managed my depression. But these drugs had taken away many of my cognitive abilities. 

 

Once off these drugs I finally started feeling a little better. Started feeling emotions after so long. It was heaven. 

Problem started last year in September. Id heard all good things about fish oil so thought I'd give it a try. I took fish oil in September 2016 and felt horrible. I felt I couldn't move and was stuck to sleeping on a chair the whole day. This happened many times. Still, thinking that it's helping I gave concentrated DHA a try. Initially it gave me good antidepressant effect. But then it stopped working. DHA has made me worse now and that's the reason I joined this website. I was taking DHA (jarrow max DHA) till this April 2017. 

 

I couldn't function in May and even this month. I'd to leave my job. I'm crippled now. Leaving DHA feels as though I've  quit a synthetic antidepressant. My symptoms are as follows: 

Respiratory depression (don't get the urge to breathe in) if I nap during day time I stop breathing. It's not apnea. Just reduced respiration. Night time it somehow becomes less.

Pressure in head, back of head, back of neck, if I try to sleep during day, it seems like I'm getting zaps at the base of my skull. 

Throat feels like it collapses every time I breathe in. However I have no difficulty swallowing liquid or food. 

Morning depression. Can't sleep deep for more than 3 hours. Once awake at 2 am, if I try to sleep I feel depressed and head pressure. 

Emotional blunting 

Depersonalization

No supplements are working. Rhodiola had worked for me before but after taking DHA, nothing is working. 

My theory is that the ssri had caused desensitization of 5ht1a, 5ht2a and 5ht2c receptors among others. Taking DHA must have resensitized them in an irregular manner and that's why I'm having all these symptoms. My initial depression was melancholic caused by hyperactive hpa axis. I wish to go back to 2010 and take rhodiola instead of those dangerous drugs but I know I need to live with this withdrawal like all you guys. 

I was glad to read altostrata's post saying what's really happening is actually autonomic dysregulation. The serotonin receptors need to heal and other systems take over causing dysfunctional homeostasis. 

I'm planning to take a year off and do nothing. Take no supplements. Just eat vegetables, fruits and bland chicken and see how I feel. Let my body and brain heal itself with the grace of God and god given natural foods.

I feel it is very important to let your body take the time it needs. Till then be very careful in trying out any supplement and start only with smallest dosage. 

As this last resort I will try to relax, eat healthy and do nothing for a year. I don't need money or anything. All I want is to feel human again. I will be post back in few months and let you guys know how I feel with this simple strategy.

ANR. 

Edited September 1, 2017 by baroquep
white space

[AliG]

Hi ANR. Welcome to SA. I'm sorry you have had this experience but I'm glad you found us. You have posted in the right place but we are going through a format change at the moment so things are a little off until we regroup and acclimatize. 

Would you mind detailing your drug history? When and how did you taper the Lexapro? It sounds like it could possibly be withdrawal and not necessarily the fish oil although that may have exacerbated your symptoms.

It's great if you can take time off to let your CNS heal.You mention supplements and we recommend magnesium and fish oil. Obviously, after a reaction, which some do experience you would avoid that for now but Magnesium is extremely helpful during withdrawal. 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

[ANR]

AliG, thanks for welcoming me. Feels good to finally interact with people who really understand! 

 

Yes, I started escitalopram (brand name nexito here in India) in 2013 March. I used to take 10 mg for a little more than a year. Then the following year I took one 5 mg pill and cut the other 5mg pill in half. So 7.5 for 3 months. Then 5 mg for another 3 months. Then I eventually reduced the 5mg by 1/4th over 6 months. August 2015 I was finally off it. I was running every morning during this time. I got deep depression once off it but I decided I will not go back on these. I even went to a psychiatrist who then gave paroxetine. I bought those but never took them. Slowly the depression reduced a little but anhedonia and cognitive problems are still there. 

 

I tried l-tryptophan in Aug 2015. That night I got severe panic attack, disorientation, shortness of breath. I've now noticed, everything that increases serotonin gives me shortness of breath. Dark chocolate, rhodiola, 5-htp, tryptophan, even sometimes eating pure carbs (here in India people eat a lot of rice). All these give me shortness of breath. My serotonin receptors are damaged and dysfunctional. Some receptors like 5ht2a control dopamine release too. Maybe that's y I have emotional numbing and anhedonia. Who knows what's wrong !! But I was actually healing very slowly with exercise and nutrition. Untill I started fish oil. Then it was all downhill. 

 

I never did well on fish oil. I'm not saying people shouldn't try it. Take if it helps. Maybe I'm one of the few people whose brain chemistry does not fit well with fish oil. EPA gives me severe head pressure and depression and DHA initially gave me antidepressant effect and now has crippled me with chronic breathlessness (the same one I get everything time I take serotonin supplements). 

 

I have tried magnesium (now foods and also magnesium calm). I get severe anhedonia from it. Also a little anxiety and head pressure. 

 

I really think I've got a dopamine dysfunction as well. Rhodiola and some dopaminergic  foods like green tea even strawberries made me feel good initially. Now I've to heal the serotonin damage too from these drugs !!! 

 

I just got a psychometric test done yesterday (mcmi and ror). Since I didn't know about these weird symptoms I went to a neurologist who told me to meet a psychiatrist who suggested these. After the test I met him and told about my anxiety. He was so keen on pushing these drugs on me. Now that I know about these I told him why don't u give me l theanine instead. He said no that won't help you better take this (paroxetine). I'll never touch psychiatric drugs again.

 

I don't know why these people want others to suffer. Where has humanity gone?! 

 

You are right, had I taken the fish oil with a normal brain I would benefit deeply. But our brains are all messed up with these drugs. We can never say how it will react to any supplement. So, I'm staying off everything for now. I would like to try rhodiola once I heal (may take years I don't know :-() For now I have just no options than nature's whole food. Also, strawberry season in India Is from November to March. I get good antidepressant effect from strawberry, avocado and apple smoothie. Waiting for that time. Till then just have apple and avocado. Apple has the antioxidant quercetin which is neuroprotective and also an antidepressant. Let food be medicine for now. 

 

 

[nicolantana]

I'm gonna follow your story bro.

 

I can't give much advice apart from my belief that your plan of action is good. I have the same plan. just let nature and time take its course and our brains surely will heal eventually.

[ANR]

Sure man..  I've spent so much on supplements, tried all vitamins and herbs out there. The only herb that worked initially was rhodiola because it balances the hpa axis and Increases neurotransmitters (in individuals not exposed to psychiatric drugs). I used to keep rhodiola as a treasure for days I wanna feel good. Thinking I'm safe at least I got rhodiola. Was so dismayed when it stopped working and caused anxiety instead. 

Anyway I've a special foods list that will speed up the healing of the brain, might be helpful - 

Berries (best antioxidants of all)

Apple (prevents neurodegenerative diseases and protects brain - 1 daily)

Avocado (healthy fat for brain - 1 daily)

Almonds (just 4 a day)

Green tea (just 1 cup a day)

All vegetables (chose ones you are not allergic to - many servings)

Fish (I'll avoid this don't want anymore omega 3 DHA)

Chicken for protein 

Eggs with yolk (max 2 per day)

Just a teaspoon of coconut oil

One teaspoon ghee 

Small amount of seeds - pumpkin and sunflower 

 

I will try to implement how much ever I can from the above. Hope something will help. 

 

 

 

[PoetJester]

Hey ANR

 

thanks for posting.  I have the same problems with respiration.  very shallow breathing for 3+ years after my wd from Zoloft and zyprexa.  I also have the worst time trying to breath when I sleep.   it's like my whole upper body just collapses upon itself and closes down my breathing passage anytime I try to sleep.  sometimes I can go to the point of sheer exhaustion (a day without sleep) and just crash and get around the problem of my throat closing in sleep, but usually now any kind of natural sleep is nearly impossible with my depressed brain/body.  laying on my back and trying to sleep is sure to cause me to choke and nearly asphyxiate now.  

 

poetjester

[ANR]

Hi PoetJester

 

Do u feel that during day time as well ?

If you feel it during the mornings even when you are sitting and anytime you try to nap during the day, then it could be anxiety caused by the withdrawal. 

 

Most serotonin neurons are present in the brainstem and responsible for respiration. Any functional change caused by these antidepressants can affect them. 

 

My breathing problem resolves for few hours at night so I know it's not sleep apnea. It's worst in the mornings. Do you feel your throat collapses more at night ? Do u wake up from whatever little sleep you get gasping for air? That's a sign of sleep apnea. 

 

If it's chronic throughout the day then it could be the withdrawal. But the withdrawal has a role to play for sure in both cases.

[PoetJester]

Hey ANR,

 

it happens all the time now and with increasing frequency.  earlier on in wd I could more easily sleep naturally (long late night walks helped) although the sleep quality was poor and depressed, but now it's becoming nearly impossible to sleep at all at any time during the day or night even when sleeping on my side.  my sleep has gotten progressively worse and harder to achieve as this wd rolls along.   it's gotten to the point where I have little faith in my ability to fall asleep and my hypnogogia and hypnic jerks are becoming more frequent and prominent and are keeping me out of sleep.   I used to sleep 15+ hours a day on the pills, in fact that was almost all I could do when I took the drugs, and when I quit them it went down to 3-4 hours a night.    I am constantly having depressed dreams that are vivid and two dimensional and often nightmarish so it's probably wd inspired depression.  I just have no natural ease or comfort now when I lay down in bed.  I enjoy resting, but how to sleep has become a torment.

 

poetjester 

[ANR]

PoetJester

 

I've noticed one thing in respiratory depression, any slow breathing exercises worsens it. 

 

See if this helps - 

Walk in the morning, early like 6 am in a park or a place which has greenary. That will provide good oxygen and also produce endorphins n other feel good chemicals. Do Not over do it. That will stress out nervous system even more and cause more harm than good. Just find your comfort level and walk till you sweat. It could be 5 mins or 20. Walking at night before sleeping is bad as far as I know. 

Then at night once hitting the bed, do belly breathing. That helps me sleep. Don't try to control your breathing. Just place your hand on your tummy and let it go up and down naturally. The chest should not move, only the tummy. This puts me to sleep instantly. Don't try to control the speed of your breathing.

 

If you don't walk during the morning then at night you might still get depressing nightmares. The walk will work for depression and the belly breathing will work for sleep. But it's a very slow process. Takes time but there will be Improvements. See if it helps. Take care. 

 

 

[ANR]

I don't know how to survive anymore. Everything is becoming difficult. My symptoms make me feel suicidal. 

I have lost 11 kgs in the past 3 months. I have severe GERD and IBS. I think I am not digesting the food I eat. I'm just 28. 

All my joints are cracking way too much. I can't even exercise because of this. If I stretch my hands to pickup something,  the joints of my elbow, shoulders and collar bone crack so much. This happens everytime and I fear I may get some bone dislocation. 

Every morning in bed all of my body itches so much. What is wrong :-( 

Apart from this I have severe muscle tightening symptoms. It's as if my throat,  neck, chest and back muscles tighten so hard that I cannot breathe.

Sometimes shooting pain in my ear or some place in face. 

Sometimes I get severe pain in my sternum. It's so weird I don't get panic attacks but these weird physical symptoms are making me wanna give up. I feel my body is falling apart due to lack of nutrients. I wish to die in my sleep. Every night. Then I think about my sister. She is the only one I have. I've lost my parents as a kid. If I die my sister will have no one and will be devastated. This thought tells me to keep hanging in. No matter what. Maybe someday I'll see the light. 

I've spent more than 100000 Indian rupees on doing tests.. multiple MRI, blood tests.. etc. 

Only thing that came up was vitamin d was a little low and vitamin B12 was 255 pg/ml. I don't know If it's a very serious deficiency. 

It all started after I took concentrated DHA. This could all be a serotonin problem. Serotonin receptors in gut also making the food move too fast and cause malabsorption. Only damn theories... 

I went to numerous psychiatrists. Found one who was helping me with some supplements. But nothing was working. Now he says there is no option but to take sertraline. I don't want to go on that path again. I'm so stuck. I don't know what to do. I don't even wanna talk about mental symptoms. 

 

- ANR

 

Edited August 21, 2017 by ChessieCat

[ChessieCat]

Hi ANR, I'm sorry that you are feeling so bad.  My personal opinion is I think you are very wise in refusing the sertraline.  We have been led to believe that the solution to our problems is in taking a pill.  I realise that in some cases this may be necessary, eg antibiotics if we have an infection.

 

Please seek local support if you continue to feel so desperate.  As an online forum we are not able to provide that kind of support.  I suggest you find the phone number of an organisation who you can ring so that you have it ready in case you need it.  Here is the link to a list in India:  suicide.org/hotlines/international/india-suicide-hotlines.html

 

This is the link to a discussion on SA:  for-those-who-are-feeling-desperate-or-suicidal

 

[ANR]

I am sure it's all biological. Before, when I used to try some herbal supplements, within minutes I would be fine. Now nothing is working. 

I know that proper exercise and diet will aid in recovery but due to my symptoms, I am unable to implement those. 

 

Thank you for the helpline link. 

[bhasski]

Tell me if these hotlines has good experience for you.

I am also having same issues though I have been on several changes - shrinks  enjoyment .

I also live in India ,  left job almost 2 yrs back and still feels pain for being  finding myself dysfunctional. 

 

Currently on Ayurvedic.  The problem is knowing the issues , but not knowing the solution or say what the solution i think was... become my problem for now..

 

 

[ANR]

I haven't called any of these hotline numbers yet. 

 

Common people just won't understand the difference between normal depression and a range of weird symptoms we call withdrawal. They just won't get it. Only we can. 

 

These antidepressant drugs have messed up my biology. The serotonin receptors are totally messed up in my body. I know they will heal with time but what I am scared of is that they might do some structural damage till then. For instance I'm having severe bone pain and excessive joint cracking. I'm scared of these. What if they are permanently deformed or damaged later on. 

 

Serotonin is involved in a lot of things in the body: bone formation, bone loss, gut motility, and many many more. It's just impossible to read all the literature and perform experiments on self say just to downregulate your 5ht1b receptors. 

 

I hate it when people say you have depression, talk to a counselor. If anything, counselors have made my depression worse. I don't have depression. What I have is complete anhedonia and a range of physical symptoms hard to explain. 

 

Does anyone else have issues with joint cracking and bone pain ? 

[rupa]

Dear ANR

Yes I had the joint cracking and bone pain at shoulders ,legs,back,etc.

I am from Hyderabad,India.

You are suffering alot.

Please hang on my friend, don't make your sister alone.

Read my story ,here it is.

I didn't know about tapering system.So I cold turkeyed Risperidone.

(I blame my psychiatrist who prescribed Risperidone and didn't warn me about tapering system.)

From that cold turkey,I lost my sleep.

If I attempt to sleep ,my brain was dreaming.Thus I was unable to sleep at all.I was in 60 days of hell without sleep.

Then I went to several doctors,finally I felt my present doctor is good.

I am prescribed with olanzapine low dose that is 5 mg.

I learnt other members of this site are suffering same problem like me ,for years.(PoerJester).

So I found no point to wait and make  suffer my brain.

So I decided to use olanzapine.

It is working wonders for me.

I know I have to use olanzapine indefinitely .May be so many years.

But at the same time

I know,my brains chemistry changed for ever,I have to accept the truth.I am thankful that I have a solution with other drug.

If you don't have good doctor at your city.Come to Hyderabad.

If you want you can consult my present doctor.

Explain all your problems to him.

Let's see what he says.

But never think of suicide again.

We have to find the key where we have lost it.

Hang on my friend.

Be patient,you will definitely get a solution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bubble]

There is a very important survey on drug WD at the moment. We might finally get some acknowledgement for all the suffering these drugs caused us.

 

Adding your experience would be very valuable. It only takes a few minutes. They extended it because they got so many replies after Alto mobilised our members here but the more people join, the more powerful we are.

 

I even invited my friends who are not on the forum and some of them were not even aware that what was happening to them was a WD... Every vote counts.

 

https://roehamptonpsych.az1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_6gSHZN88sOmHDlr

[Chicago77]

On 8/20/2017 at 10:36 PM, ANR said:

I don't know how to survive anymore. Everything is becoming difficult. My symptoms make me feel suicidal. 

I have lost 11 kgs in the past 3 months. I have severe GERD and IBS. I think I am not digesting the food I eat. I'm just 28. 

All my joints are cracking way too much. I can't even exercise because of this. If I stretch my hands to pickup something,  the joints of my elbow, shoulders and collar bone crack so much. This happens everytime and I fear I may get some bone dislocation. 

Every morning in bed all of my body itches so much. What is wrong :-( 

Apart from this I have severe muscle tightening symptoms. It's as if my throat,  neck, chest and back muscles tighten so hard that I cannot breathe.

Sometimes shooting pain in my ear or some place in face. 

Sometimes I get severe pain in my sternum. It's so weird I don't get panic attacks but these weird physical symptoms are making me wanna give up. I feel my body is falling apart due to lack of nutrients. I wish to die in my sleep. Every night. Then I think about my sister. She is the only one I have. I've lost my parents as a kid. If I die my sister will have no one and will be devastated. This thought tells me to keep hanging in. No matter what. Maybe someday I'll see the light. 

I've spent more than 100000 Indian rupees on doing tests.. multiple MRI, blood tests.. etc. 

Only thing that came up was vitamin d was a little low and vitamin B12 was 255 pg/ml. I don't know If it's a very serious deficiency. 

It all started after I took concentrated DHA. This could all be a serotonin problem. Serotonin receptors in gut also making the food move too fast and cause malabsorption. Only damn theories... 

I went to numerous psychiatrists. Found one who was helping me with some supplements. But nothing was working. Now he says there is no option but to take sertraline. I don't want to go on that path again. I'm so stuck. I don't know what to do. I don't even wanna talk about mental symptoms. 

 

- ANR

 

Yes!!! My joints are cracking and popping all over my body. My elbows are the worst, but it's also shoulders, wrists, knees, ankles, sternum. EVERYWHERE! I'm still too and have muscle and joint pain. This all started after I stopped Lexapro. You are not along ANR!! 

 

-Chicago 

[LexAnger]

I'm so sorry to hear your suffering from various Ssri and now hit by the fish oil! It's heartbreaking that after all the hardship getting off those poisons and started getting your life back now this very unexpected drawback! 

 

Im in the fight for 5 years tapering lexapro plus more while on it, even with such a long and slow taper, I had and still have all the crazy pain and symptoms hard to list partial of them. I read so many with all kinds of crazily and severe physical symptoms myself included. I can assure you all those are not pemenant and I never ever heard any structure changes from this. So be strong continuously and have faith that you will heal. Time is the only healer as everyone says, lots more patience and endurance will carry you through this horrodous process.

 

may stop trying anything except for healthy food until your system is stabilized.

 

best

lex

[ANR]

7 hours ago, Chicago77 said:

Yes!!! My joints are cracking and popping all over my body. My elbows are the worst, but it's also shoulders, wrists, knees, ankles, sternum. EVERYWHERE! I'm still too and have muscle and joint pain. This all started after I stopped Lexapro. You are not along ANR!! 

 

-Chicago 

Thanks for the info Chicago. 

Yes, I'm hanging on. Life is a mess right now and I'm on zombie mode but what I have is a little hope. Need to keep clinging on to it. I was on escitalopram for 3 years.. it's making sense now that it causes bone issues. Especially after reading so many of the users' posts. 

Knowing I'm not alone helps. Thanks!!

 

[ANR]

5 hours ago, LexAnger said:

I'm so sorry to hear your suffering from various Ssri and now hit by the fish oil! It's heartbreaking that after all the hardship getting off those poisons and started getting your life back now this very unexpected drawback! 

 

Im in the fight for 5 years tapering lexapro plus more while on it, even with such a long and slow taper, I had and still have all the crazy pain and symptoms hard to list partial of them. I read so many with all kinds of crazily and severe physical symptoms myself included. I can assure you all those are not pemenant and I never ever heard any structure changes from this. So be strong continuously and have faith that you will heal. Time is the only healer as everyone says, lots more patience and endurance will carry you through this horrodous process.

 

may stop trying anything except for healthy food until your system is stabilized.

 

best

lex

 

Yes, escitalopram do cause so many physical symptoms. I'm about 80% sure it has to do everything with 5ht2a and 2c receptors. Considering my supplement use and previous escitalopram use. But there is just no way to normalize these except wait and endure. 

Yes some days are hard and some days are gloomy. But need to hold on to and never give up. 

Thanks lex for the assurance. 

[AntiAntiPsychotic]

I don't think that the fish oil made things worse. All psychotropic drugs aside, fish is very, very healthy for the human body & brain. Maybe due to the I.B.S, it caused digestive problems or was too heavy on your stomach ?

 

I understand your grips with everything else but in my honest opinion, the fish oil should do no harm unless you've taken a massive amount that overloads your system. Never heard of too much vitamins being a bad thing. Then again I could be wrong

[ANR]

Hi AAP 

 

I noticed anxiety symptoms after starting DHA ( concentrated form of fish oil containing more DHA than EPA). It was not a one time thing. Everytime I took it I noticed it. It worked for depression but made anxiety worse. 

Yes, fish oil is very safe. But only on people who have not taken any Psychotropic drugs. For people who's brains are messed up from these drugs, vitamins and supplements can cause paradoxical reactions. I'm saying this from experience. 

Take supplements if it helps you. Its all very subjective, specific to individual biology. 

For now I'm staying away from everything :-(