Thepaintinglady: How long does the withdrawal hell last? I've lost 'me'

July 21, 2017

Hello, I have a 20 year history of antidepressant use following a breakdown. I have been on and off Citalopram and Sertraline which are the GP's 'go to' meds for most of their patients.

However, about 5 years ago my anxiety and depression seemed to get worse, maybe it was something to do with the Menopause? - I spent a small fortune on private counselling, which by the way didn't seem to clear up any problems psychologically. So, on her recommendation I went to see a private psych doc (£300 per hour!) - He prescribed my Venlafaxine which I stayed on for about 2 years. The dose was increased incrementally from 150mg until I was on 375mg daily (quite a big dose for a 4'11" petite lady!)

I found Venlafaxine a weird drug which gave me horrendous nightmares every night, stomach problems and while it did work for a few weeks, didn't provide a stable plateau in my general mental health.

I decided to taper from Venlafaxine last September (2016) and reduced fairly quickly dropping by 37.5mg every 4 weeks ish. When I was down to 112.5mg Ven, my GP decided to introduce Sertraline 50mg (as I was very tearful) - I continued taking both and stopped the Ven all together in March 2017. My GP increased the Sertraline to 100mg which gave me awful anxiety for 7 weeks, so I reduced back down to 50mg.

I have now stopped ALL ANTIDEPRESSANT drugs completely !!!! I have been drug free for 3 weeks now - what a roller-coaster it has been.These are my current symptoms:

I cry daily, I feel woozy and dizzy and very tired at times, I have suicidal thoughts occasionally and yet, there are moments of total normality and general happiness!

My depression has never been the 'stay in bed' type, I am very active - I love gardening, cycling, painting, sewing and being a Granny! and I continue to do things even when I feel like crap.

My dilemma is, do I stick with this emotional hell that I feel I am going through at the moment? will it get better? will I ever be 'normal' again without antidepressants? Am I strong enough to keep going?

Please, please give me some advice. I would love to hear some success stories, I really need some support and idea how long these horrible discontinuation symptoms will last

Thanks, Thepaintinglady (currently painting the kitchen ceiling and not a work of art!)

Edited July 27, 2017 by mammaP
Added name to title

July 21, 2017

Hi Paintinglady, welcome to SA. I was cringing when you said effexor was started at 150! That is a very high starting dose, and to be increased to 375 made my toes curl . I am a velnlafaxine survivor and didn't have doses as high as yours but was housebound for years.

You are now suffering withdrawal and the only way to stop withdrawal is reinstatement followed by a slow careful taper. It is early days and could, probably will, get much worse. Venlafaxine is brutal but thankfully the sertraline helped keep the withdrawal at bay but the 100mg was too high a dose. How were you when you were taking 50mg?

As the sertraline seemed to cover the venlafaxine withdrawal you could try a small 5mg dose of sertraline. If you are ok with it but doesn't help much you can increase it to 10mg, but lots of people find the small dose helps and there is no need to incease. It is also much less to taper once you are stabilised. It will take around 4 days to reach a steady state in your system.

We ask all our members to fill in their signature, it means we can see at a glance what the history is without having to go back through the topic. You can find instructions here..

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/80-new-to-the-site-please-start-a-topic-in-the-introductions-forum/

What is withdrawal syndrome

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/603-what-is-withdrawal-syndrome/

About reinstating

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7562-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

July 27, 2017

Thepaintinglady

Hello, I'm new to this forum, well - I have looked at it lots of times but only just got the courage to join in!

Historically, I have been on and off antidepressants for 20 years - mostly Sertraline of Citalopram (these seem to be the only ones GP's know about)

When I reached 50 I had a lot of life changes, lost both my parent's, gave up work, kids left home, was I menopausal? lots of prob's 'down below' - given HRT patches and a Mirena coil :0

I had increased anxiety and depression, although my depression is not so pronounced that I can't function. I always get on with my life, up at 7, shower, make up, hair, busy busy busy.

I saw a counsellor for about 6 months - no big issues raised or sorted and she suggested I see a professional psych doc.

The private psych doc (yes, £300 per hour !! - only saw him for 1.5 hrs and the occasional expensive phone call at the same rate!! - let's face it, NHS in England is useless if you need help unless you are sectioned) prescribed me Venlafaxine (Effexor XR) . He started me on 150mg and increased me to 375mg daily (I'm only tiddly 4'11")

I didn't think the Ven' was brilliant, ok for a couple of weeks then nervy and a bit miserable, hence the dose increases. The side effects were horrible! Nightmares being the worse - all night and every night .......I could have written a horror book/film upon awakening - all so vivid. Had recurring gastritis too.

I began to taper quite quickly dropping by 37.5mg every few weeks. When I had got down to 150mg daily I was getting tearful and so my GP put me on Sertraline as well (50mg)

I reduced the Ven quicker and stopped completely at the end of March this year. I became tearful and GP advised increase Sert' to 100mg - However, this made my anxiety much worse.

In June, after 7 weeks on 100mg Sert I dropped to 50 again, which seemed to help the anxiety a bit - and then I thought "bugger it, I'm going to get off these bloody medicines" so I did!

So in the month of June, I went from taking 100 daily to 50, then 25 then nothing! I didn't consider this quick - but looking back it was a very fast taper especially after quitting the Venlafaxine in March.

I must also add that I was extremely ill with a pneumonia type of sepsis in March which hospitalised me - I went from a fit 55yr old (don't smoke or drink) to a weak and feeble thing that could hardly walk around the garden. I have steadily worked hard to recover from my sudden illness - my body has certainly been through ****! (that's a medical term!) - the imbalance of antibiotic treatment has given me thrush 7 times since March (I can hear a sharp intake of breath from all you understanding ladies) - and I have felt generally 'out of sorts' all this year.

What I am eventually getting round to is - I feel like crap! Since I stopped all meds (July 1st being day one) I have had mood swings (at first anger which I have never experienced in my life) and crying daily and I mean EVERY day. I feel anxious, depressed, I'm all 'in my head' and can't stop thinking about me and how bloody awful I feel. Every minute is like an hour when you feel like shite!

At first the crying was just out of the blue without feeling particularly down. Now I am crying so deeply (howling and sobbing) and very low, I have felt as tho there is no end to this nightmare and have even felt a bit suicidal - although I would NOT act on this because I have a loving and supporting family.

I contacted the forum a few days ago and had a reply from MamaP which was very kind of her. She suggested I re-introduce a small dose of Sert' which I did. (although chipping a small 50mg pill into 10th's is pretty tricky) - I took this for 4 days and I don't think it helped, infect, I felt worse. So have increased it to 25mg over the last two days.

What I would really like to know and to hear from anyone is .........is this normal? when will it end?

I feel like i'm going mad.

I have completely lost the real me, am I lost forever?

I also feel like I'm struggling to swim in a very deep and choppy ocean with no-one around I have a loving and supportive husband but he's never been through anything like this.

How long will the withdrawal symptoms last?

I have read some real horror stories where they go on for months or even years (I don't think Im strong enough to last that long)

Looking for some people who have seen the light at the end of the tunnel

Love

Thepainting lady

Not sure where to put my drug history?

6.3.14 Venlafaxine 150

27.3.14 Venlafaxine 225

4.9.14 Ven 375

4.11.14 reduced Ven to 300

26.9.15 Ven 262.5

24.10.15 reduced to 225 Ven

16.12.15 reduced to 185 Ven

9.1.16 reduced to 150 Ven

12.2.16 increased to 187.5 Ven

29.2.16 inc to 225 Ven

10.8.16 red to 188

10.10.16 reduced to 150Ven

16.1.17 Start Sertraline (50) as well as taking 150mg Ven

21.1.17 reduced Ven by 37.5

27.1.17 reduced Ven to 75mg daily

7.3.17 reduced to 37.5

11.3.17 take 37.5 on alternate days

25.3.17 STOP VENLAFAXINE

21.4.17 increased Sertraline to 100mg daily

8.6.17 reduced Sert to 50 as had 7 horrible weeks of increased anxiety

19.6.17 reduced sert to 25

30.6.17 STOPPED ALL AD's!!!!

July 27, 2017

Hi Paintinglady, I have merged your 2 topics, I think you must have missed my reply to your last one, if you follow your topic you will be notified of replies.

I also had sepsis and was in hospital critically ill for 6 weeks, also had the thrush (ouch)! And also decided to come off the drugs when I went home from hospital!

Sepsis takes it's toll on the body and my doctor told me it would take up to 2 years to recover so it's no surprise you are feeling so bad with withdrawal on top!

As I explained in my previous reply you may benefit from reinstating a very small 5mg dose of sertraline. Tablets can be made into a liquid for tapering, it is easy to do when you have the hang of it.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2693-how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules/

How to put history in your signature.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

July 29, 2017

Hi painting lady. I'm sure others have already told you but i will too. What you're feeling is normal for this situation. I tapered effexor (only from 150 though) too quickly out of desperation (complicated story) and felt everything you're feeling. Mammap also replied to me which i appreciated very much as i'm sure you did. I've been off it for 3 months now and i've improved a lot in that time but still have a long way to go. The first two months for me were hell but in the last month the waves are less intense than earlier and there are actually good times too. Mainly late afternoon and night i'm at my best. Hopefully you will get to this point too. After a while you might work out that you're best to avoid certain things to help your emotions. For me the worse ones are too much noise, tv too bright, music or singing songs and annoying people. I avoid this stuff pretty hard. What you're feeling is normal for this but i had to reply as i've seen improvement in me. It's hard when the only people who understand are others who've done or are doing what you are. My anger and out of control emotions are less intense now and in the end it passes to a more peacefull place. I'm sure the moderators can give you a lot more strength/advice than me however. I don't know if you've already watched them but if you look up toxic antidepressants on youtube they have some clips that provided me with strength and hope at the worst times. Just keep your volume down incase the music sets you off, it did for me anyway along with knowing that everything i was feeling was real. On this site there's a really good write up about what your brain has to do to re balance which helps. If no one gives you a link i'll try and find it for you. Stay strong, it does get better even though it feels like it never will. Slowly though. Everyone's withdrawal timeline is different though according to advice i was given. I hope you can gain something from this.

Gus.

July 29, 2017

Thanks for your kind words Gussy. Nice to know I'm not alone in this hell hole. Had THE most horrid day yesterday which culminated in a crying fest ?

I have upped my sertraline after reintroducing a teeny spec of 10mg for five days which didn't help much although did stop the dizziness. I am on day 4 of 25mg now. Today is much better than yesterday so far!

Like u said, it's a long road to recovery which has taken me totally by surprise!

Thanks for your message- may the good times return for you soon

thepaintinglady

August 7, 2017

Update: I have increased my Sertraline dose to 25mg for the last 10 days. Still going through hell tho!

I am tearful and feel more depressed, also the anxiety is fairly constant too. I am very tired and my eyes are quite blurry. (not helped by the crying!)

I would really like some advice regarding my reintroduction - should I be feeling better by now? have I done the right thing? do I need to up the dose?

WILL I EVER FEEL NORMAL AGAIN?

I'm sinking in a very deep ocean and although there are some windows - there are some tsunami's as well

Please tell me this is going to pass - It has been 6 weeks since I stopped AD's and 3 since I started the reintroduction.

Could do with some support and positive feedback from someone please xx

August 7, 2017

TPL: It can take at least two weeks before seeing results. Only a very lucky few notice improvements before then. Please read:

How long to stabilize after reinstating or updosing.

On 2017-07-21 at 6:07 AM, Thepaintinglady said:

I have now stopped ALL ANTIDEPRESSANT drugs completely !!!! I have been drug free for 3 weeks now - what a roller-coaster it has been.These are my current symptoms:

I cry daily, I feel woozy and dizzy and very tired at times, I have suicidal thoughts occasionally and yet, there are moments of total normality and general happiness!

8 hours ago, Thepaintinglady said:

Update: I have increased my Sertraline dose to 25mg for the last 10 days. Still going through hell tho!

I am tearful and feel more depressed, also the anxiety is fairly constant too. I am very tired and my eyes are quite blurry. (not helped by the crying!)

It looks to me as if your symptoms are somewhat the same as when you first posted, and that some have changed. Are you keeping track of your symptoms and doses? Please keep notes on paper of your symptoms and the times of your dose(s). This post has a useful format for a daily log:

Take notes of doses and symptoms.

Please add your reinstatement to your signature (date & dose) and the increase you made after (date and dose)

August 21, 2017

Hello, Just thought I'd check in again with your support group.......I need a bit more help from someone if possible

Also, thank you for getting in touch with me regarding the drug withdrawal survey in the UK, i have indeed participated!

I am now nearly 4 weeks into the updosing of sertraline (up to 25mg daily) and still feel as though it doesn't do much. Although, when I truly look at my symptoms from a few weeks ago, they have actually improved a bit.

My non-stop crying episodes have reduced to maybe a little cry every other day. The anxiety is still here, mostly in the mornings. However, the depressed mood is fairly constant and probably worse. I don't seem to find joy in much, I keep myself fairly busy and don't let it stop me from doing anything - but the world is a very grey place at the moment and all I can think about is how bad I'm feeling (seems so pointless when I really have nothing to be depressed about! I am lucky in life with a very close and loving husband and family and the most adorable granddaughter - yet, I find it very difficult to smile and laugh)

I also have fatigue more than I ever have done, is this to do with the anxiety and depression zapping my energy??

I would dearly love some advice regarding the continuation of Sertraline. I know it is up to me what I do, but when I find it difficult to make any decisions (do I buy white or brown bread?!?) I could do with a knowledgeable expert.

So basically, do I continue with the 25mg Sert to see how it goes over the next few weeks - maybe give it a total of two months to see? or do I start to taper off this 25mg in the hope that my body can adjust by itself to find Utopia?

I am a fan of reading Dr Claire Weeks books regarding nervous illness and she advises to allow time to pass and not fight anxiety feelings, also to keep occupied to avoid depression - could I really heal myself without any drugs??

I would love to have faith in myself in the hope that I could ever feel 'normal' again or in fact to actually 'feel' - these bloody antidepressants have dampened my feelings for so many years I can't remember what it is to feel real love or real happiness.

Sorry this sounds like 'me,me,me and the importance of me' but would like some advice if you could please.

Thanks

xx

August 21, 2017

Hi PL, you've been on so many drugs and a lot of changes this year. It will take some time for your nervous system to stabilise, even after reinstating. It is good that you are not feeling any worse, and feeling better, even if it is only a bit, is great. I wouldn't change anything else right now, it is still early days although it doesn't feel like it to you. Often we feel that we have to do SOMETHING when the best thing to do is NOTHING! You will improve, but will take time. This will get better. Every time drugs change, our brains have to readjust, when there are multiple changes one after the other it becomes more chaotic. Our Rhi explains it beautifully here.

While your brain is recovering you need to take good care of yourself. There are lots of suggestions in the symptoms and self care section. Most of us here respond well to fish oil and magnesium, I wouldn't be without either. Fish oil is good for brain stuff and magnesium is calming.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/?view=findpost&p=100596&hl=magnesium

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

August 21, 2017

Thank you so much MammaP, your quick reply is just what I needed today. And of course, everything you say makes sense, I certainly needed to read/hear it from someone who knows as my foggy brain is finding it difficult to see clearly.

I have looked at Rhi's post before and found it very informative, I'll have another look and try to take it in - will also take some supplements too. You've given me some hope 😊

Thank you

xx

September 8, 2017

Having a few really bad days

My depression is defo getting worse. I have joined a gym so it's not as if I'm giving up the fight - but have had a truly sh*tty few days

I am now 6 weeks into my 25mg Sertraline, doc says it'll take 6-8 weeks (but what does she know?)

I know that I shouldn't measure my progress by the day, and generally I am better than I was when I first withdrew completely, two months ago.

I just feel like crying a lot of the time, I'm tired and can't remember the last time I actually laughed naturally

I sway between thinking "I'm going to stick this out and find the real me without the AD's and believe in my body to heal itself" and "quick, get me to the GP to prescribe me an AD that can get me out of this hell hole"

In reality, I know there isn't a quick fix - I'm just feeling sorry for myself

Would love some advice from anyone out there

Thanks

xx

September 8, 2017

1 hour ago, Thepaintinglady said:

Having a few really bad days

My depression is defo getting worse. I have joined a gym so it's not as if I'm giving up the fight - but have had a truly sh*tty few days

I am now 6 weeks into my 25mg Sertraline, doc says it'll take 6-8 weeks (but what does she know?)

I know that I shouldn't measure my progress by the day, and generally I am better than I was when I first withdrew completely, two months ago.

I just feel like crying a lot of the time, I'm tired and can't remember the last time I actually laughed naturally

I sway between thinking "I'm going to stick this out and find the real me without the AD's and believe in my body to heal itself" and "quick, get me to the GP to prescribe me an AD that can get me out of this hell hole"

In reality, I know there isn't a quick fix - I'm just feeling sorry for myself

Would love some advice from anyone out there

Thanks

xx

HI TPL good on you going gym while like this ,going for acupuncture later myself ,you've got solidarity with me and the depression ive had a terrible week since Tuesday but its lifting somewhat today .

I think we know now not to listen to MDs ,if youd of said 10 weeks shed of said 10-12 weeks .[well I'm finished listening to them because ive done my home work and confident now to make my own healthier wise choices ].

Don't judge the crying ,stick on some music and let it flow .

What you say about laughing is interesting ,my partner had a good belly laugh last night but it just irritated me ,what the hell is that about ,dam withdrawl has me like a demon ,the guilt I felt for being like that ,but I trust its the withdrawl .

I see you on meds 20 years are you reading up on tackling life and emotions without drugs ,I personally think this is a must because the day the meds start they numb us and don't leave us with the normal ability to process feelings and emotions ,tap into all your feelings without judgement .you see doctors treat humans like robots but we are far from that ,we have feelings and emotions that need to be nurtured and dealt with .ide be going to a phycologist a million times before meds .

Take care,

PB

September 25, 2017

Hello fellow sufferers

I can't seem to make any decisions! my anxiety and depression are muddling my brain

I came off AD's three months ago (Venlafaxine and Sertraline) but had to re-instate due to extreme withdrawal symptoms

I have now been on 25mg Sertraline for 9 weeks and still feel like crap.

Overall, the extreme symptoms immediately following stopping have improved. But recovery is very slow.

My dilemma is, do I continue with 25mg or try to wean off completely in order to clear my body of the poison?

I would love to hear from anyone else who has been through this. I am assured that things will improve, but can't see the light at the end of the tunnel yet

Thank you

Thepaintinglady

September 25, 2017

These topics might help:

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

Stabilising - What Does That Mean?

Withdrawal Normal Description

Keep Notes on Paper

Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

September 25, 2017

Thanks for your reply ChessieCat.

I have had a little look at your links, still not quite sure if I have stabilised or not!

I have far more anxiety and depression than I had before coming off the drugs, but have only re-instated at half dose (25mg)

My quandary is, do I have to up-dose again to get back to 50mg and hope that my good days eventually outnumber the bad - before doing a slow taper. Or do I stick it out on 25 for a few more weeks in the hope that the minute improvements continue?

I defo have windows and waves, ALWAYS have choppy waves in the morning, and usually feel better by evening.

I have lost any kind of creativity in myself - I guess that's the bloody depression I do hope that my body can heal itself and eventually get me back to my default settings (i.e.: Normal!)

Success stories and reassurance are always a great help!

BTW, do others suffer from fatigue? I'm so exhausted all the time and it seems to be getting worse!

Hope to hear some cheery news from someone who has survived!

thepaintinglady

x

September 25, 2017

On 8/21/2017 at 9:05 PM, mammaP said:

you've been on so many drugs and a lot of changes this year. It will take some time for your nervous system to stabilise, even after reinstating. It is good that you are not feeling any worse, and feeling better, even if it is only a bit, is great. I wouldn't change anything else right now, it is still early days although it doesn't feel like it to you. Often we feel that we have to do SOMETHING when the best thing to do is NOTHING! You will improve, but will take time.

The fact that you have noticed improvements is a good sign. But it is going to take time. Trying to keep ourselves calm so as to not add stress and being patient are things that can help.

Non-drug techniques

September 25, 2017

👍🏻

February 11, 2018

Hi Fellow sufferers

I am reaching out to you for advice regarding my withdrawal.

I have been using the recommended 10% following my 25mg reinstatement 8 months ago. Currently on 13mg Sertraline

I've read blogs which say that by reducing at this low rate, you limit your side effects of withdrawal - maybe only having a couple of days of waves with windows (minimal symptom) at other times - that's the theory anyway.

However, my symptoms are waves 90% of the time! with only the occasional window - is this normal (is anything normal following antidepressant usage?!)

Over the last 8 months, I have had about 20 good days (one 12 day spell of continuous feeling 'normal' - pure bliss)

I last had a good day about 3 weeks ago - I've been crying most days, also have DP, dreadful stomach ache etc etc

So this withdrawal feels pretty shite most of the time - and going by the 10% rule, I'll still be withdrawing over the next year or so

Has anyone dropped quicker than 10% or even gone CT?? - If I'm suffering withdrawal symptoms almost all the time, then wouldn't it be worth doing it 'short and sharp'

I'm wondering whether to do a quicker jump as it just seems to be prolonging the agony by going so slowly and still feeling so crap!

My hubby is a great support for me and it is only he who knows how I'm really feeling most of the time - to many people, I plaster on a smile and pretend everything is ok when really it isn't at all and I'm trying not to burst into tears in public

I know many people have a much worse time than me in reality, I do function fairly normally on a day to day basis. I go out, I have lots of friendship groups, I have a lovely family, I have hobbies - I do all these things physically, although I am not always there mentally (if that makes sense?) . I make sure I never say no to anything or avoid any situation even if I'm feeling anxious - I am determined to get better and return to being me some day!

Any advice regarding recovery would be gratefully received - there are never enough 'feel good' stories etc on these forums - I guess when one gets better, this is the last place to return to.

Hoping for some support and good news to boost my confidence which seems to have eluded me lately :0

Thanks

TPL

February 12, 2018

The fact that you are having periods of feeling improvement is a really good sign. I think tapering is the best way to go. I've been on an AD for 25 years (I am 60 now). Prior to going on Pristiq, I did a CT off citalopram in 2012. No idea what dose. I felt great for a few months then was hit with what I now believe was WD flu. I spent about 2.5 weeks in bed, had aches and pains, could hardly eat and lost 8kgs.

When I first tried to reduce Pristiq (Oct 2015) I went from 100mg to 50mg. I experienced 3 weeks of extreme cog fog when everything I did required my total attention, even walking. After 3 weeks I couldn't type. Being a typist for 40+ years I knew that something was wrong. I had joined SA a few days before this happened and they had suggested increasing my dose. When I couldn't type I took extra Pristiq and about 4 hours later I was able to type again. I knew for certain that it was because of the drug.

As my dose got lower I started feeling like my old self. I also realised that I had been numb for many years. In April 2017 (25mg Pristiq) I bought a new car and I was excited about it. However, in Sept 2017 (19mg Pristiq) I got really excited when I found out that my grandson was coming to stay with my daughter. I realised that the excitement I had felt when I got my car was a dulled excitement.

I have been tapering by no more than 10% every 4 weeks and have done a couple of long holds (3 months at 50mg and 7 weeks at 20mg). My withdrawal symptoms have been minimal and manageable. However, I do still get them and I do experience periods of very low mood.

As you can see I have had a couple of experiences which helped me to see some of the improvements. Sometimes when I read new members' intros I am reminded of issues which I used to have and realise that they have reduced or I don't have them any more.

From What is Happening in Your Brain

"Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are [...] to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building! You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves. The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made."

Considering that you are functioning okay and living a reasonably normal life, do you think going CT is worth the risk?

February 12, 2018

Thank you ChessieCat - what you said makes perfect sense. When i am suffering a particularly bad spell it's difficult to think logically, hence my plea for advice.

You are quite right questioning whether going CT would be worth the risk. It definitely wouldn't be, as it may produce quite catastrophic side effects and they're already bad enough thank you!

Oh to have a crystal ball to enable us to see what the future might hold! but in a way, that could be terrifying too!

I appreciate that my brain certainly has lots of re-building to do after so many years on AD's

Lets hope that I continue to taper in a similar way to you - your tapering graph is encouraging as it is defo going in the right direction

I am having a much improved day today - hoo bloody rah! lets hope this window lasts for a few days.

Many thanks once again

TPL

February 12, 2018

On ‎11‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 12:13 PM, Thepaintinglady said:

Hi Fellow sufferers

I am reaching out to you for advice regarding my withdrawal.

I have been using the recommended 10% following my 25mg reinstatement 8 months ago. Currently on 13mg Sertraline

I've read blogs which say that by reducing at this low rate, you limit your side effects of withdrawal - maybe only having a couple of days of waves with windows (minimal symptom) at other times - that's the theory anyway.

However, my symptoms are waves 90% of the time! with only the occasional window - is this normal (is anything normal following antidepressant usage?!)

Over the last 8 months, I have had about 20 good days (one 12 day spell of continuous feeling 'normal' - pure bliss)

I last had a good day about 3 weeks ago - I've been crying most days, also have DP, dreadful stomach ache etc etc

So this withdrawal feels pretty shite most of the time - and going by the 10% rule, I'll still be withdrawing over the next year or so

Has anyone dropped quicker than 10% or even gone CT?? - If I'm suffering withdrawal symptoms almost all the time, then wouldn't it be worth doing it 'short and sharp'

I'm wondering whether to do a quicker jump as it just seems to be prolonging the agony by going so slowly and still feeling so crap!

My hubby is a great support for me and it is only he who knows how I'm really feeling most of the time - to many people, I plaster on a smile and pretend everything is ok when really it isn't at all and I'm trying not to burst into tears in public

I know many people have a much worse time than me in reality, I do function fairly normally on a day to day basis. I go out, I have lots of friendship groups, I have a lovely family, I have hobbies - I do all these things physically, although I am not always there mentally (if that makes sense?) . I make sure I never say no to anything or avoid any situation even if I'm feeling anxious - I am determined to get better and return to being me some day!

Any advice regarding recovery would be gratefully received - there are never enough 'feel good' stories etc on these forums - I guess when one gets better, this is the last place to return to.

Hoping for some support and good news to boost my confidence which seems to have eluded me lately :0

Thanks

TPL

HI the TPL your dilemma of tapering while feeling shite [I love that you used this word so true] is my own also but out for a walk today I decided its best to keep holding during the cold/flu season because it can always get worse tapering or CT .

Its great you have a busy social life ,can I dare suggest that maybe you are doing to much and need to cut back a bit and rest ,I know this is so hard though because our want for connection can be still very strong .not a judgement only a suggestion .

Take care .

February 13, 2018

Hi Powerback

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my post.

I see you are tapering from the dreaded Venlafaxine too (historically, I was at one point taking 375mg daily! not for long tho as it is such a horrible drug - looking back, why did I let a private cons' psychiatrist ever advise me to just keep upping the dose, it never did work particularly well - and that is a huge dose for a 4'11" middle aged lady! I managed to come off completely almost a year ago, just the Sertraline to finish now!)

Regarding your suggestion that I may be doing too much - it is a very valid point and you may have hit upon something that may be of help.

I'm having a very tired day today after having a 'window' kind of day yesterday resulting in a mega amount of physical gardening !!! mmmmm, maybe I should start listening to my body a bit more and stop chasing my tail in order to keep occupied!

I have decided to continue to taper at the recommended 10% rate rather than go CT - the very thought that things could get much worse isn't worth the risk!

Very many thanks again Powerback - it's nice to know that I'm not the only one feeling shite at times and that there is always some support when i turn to SA for advice.

TPL

x

February 13, 2018

16 minutes ago, Thepaintinglady said:

Hi Powerback

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my post.

I see you are tapering from the dreaded Venlafaxine too (historically, I was at one point taking 375mg daily! not for long tho as it is such a horrible drug - looking back, why did I let a private cons' psychiatrist ever advise me to just keep upping the dose, it never did work particularly well - and that is a huge dose for a 4'11" middle aged lady! I managed to come off completely almost a year ago, just the Sertraline to finish now!)

Regarding your suggestion that I may be doing too much - it is a very valid point and you may have hit upon something that may be of help.

I'm having a very tired day today after having a 'window' kind of day yesterday resulting in a mega amount of physical gardening !!! mmmmm, maybe I should start listening to my body a bit more and stop chasing my tail in order to keep occupied!

I have decided to continue to taper at the recommended 10% rate rather than go CT - the very thought that things could get much worse isn't worth the risk!

Very many thanks again Powerback - it's nice to know that I'm not the only one feeling shite at times and that there is always some support when i turn to SA for advice.

TPL

x

Your welcome TPL ,ye even on the days that your up to doing loads ,practice cutting this back a bit ,from my experience it rebounds ,Ive got much better at listening to my body.

375mg is criminal .congrats getting off it ,its a brutal drug.

Best of luck with your continued tapering .

February 13, 2018

Hi Painting Lady,

I'm very happy to see you have a great social life. That is so important to the process of "growing your new brain" even if you don't feel "mentally there" every time you go out. I'm sorry to hear that you are feeling waves so much of the time. I understand completely how frustrating that is. I am about 1 year out from a taper so fast it was effectively a CT. I want you to know that I think you are doing the right thing to continue tapering as slowly as necessary.

The horrible symptoms a CT or rapid taper can produce are something I would never want to happen to anyone but my worst enemy. I won't describe them, but they were terrifying. The very worst have gone now except for very intense anxiety and attendant crying that happens sometimes. However, having a social life has been impossible for me, and I am very lonely. My husband has also had to struggle along with me by canceling his plans frequently and having to be a caretaker. I feel a lot of guilt for how this has affected him. His health has suffered. The few friends we have left must think we are very strange. I hope I can build up a social system after I get well. I miss having friends, but it's very hard to see people because of the overstimulation that is caused by their presence.

It's not all bad. I have some very good days. I am getting better all the time. We do occasionally have a day out that isn't followed by a painful one. That happened on Sunday. I have to push myself because I have a 6 year old, and I think that fact keeps me active enough to be active enough to rebuild my brain into a beteter functioning brain than before. So, I have a lot of hope, but I think it's very difficult to imagine that the misery of WD cannot be short circuited somehow. It is incredible to me that I have been off all drugs for an entire year, and I am not yet even close to well. I'm not even 50% well. I can't do anything special or out of the ordinary without risking a huge setback. It's hard to avoid a lot of sadness over that fact. I'm not sure someone could have convinced me that after an entire year off drugs it would be possible to still be this ill if I had not lived it myself.

Best of luck to you for your taper. You are going to have one fabulous brain when you are finished.

Yours,

Rosetta

February 13, 2018

Hello, tpl,

I'm concerned you may be tapering a bit too fast. Don't forget that SA recommends a 4-week hold after each month's taper to allow your system to become accustomed to the lower dose before tapering again. I know you're anxious to be off this drug, but going slowly now will pay off later.

Best,

Gridley

February 13, 2018

33 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

So, I have a lot of hope, but I think it's very difficult to imagine that the misery of WD cannot be short circuited somehow. It is incredible to me that I have been off all drugs for an entire year, and I am not yet even close to well. I'm not even 50% well. I can't do anything special or out of the ordinary without risking a huge setback. It's hard to avoid a lot of sadness over that fact. I'm not sure someone could have convinced me that after an entire year off drugs it would be possible to still be this ill if I had not lived it myself.

Hi TPL,

I did a fast taper (essentially CT) from sertraline 10 months ago and it has been extremely rocky. I do wonder now what a 10% taper would have looked like. I am just such an impatient person that I realize only now -- after experiencing CT waves of suicidal anxiety -- would I be able to be patient enough to slow down the process. I don't know the right answer but SA heartily recommends the 10% taper method.

I quote Rosetta here because it IS amazing that it takes so long to remodel our brain. As I type this, I can see that well, of course, it takes a long time to build a new brain and face the grief of social isolation (high five, Rosetta), how it has affected friendships, and the concept of "wellness" at any cost... yeah, it takes a while to integrate into your body and learn to think differently about it.

February 13, 2018

1 hour ago, Rosetta said:

It's not all bad. I have some very good days. I am getting better all the time. We do occasionally have a day out that isn't followed by a painful one. That happened on Sunday. I have to push myself because I have a 6 year old, and I think that fact keeps me active enough to be active enough to rebuild my brain into a beteter functioning brain than before. So, I have a lot of hope, but I think it's very difficult to imagine that the misery of WD cannot be short circuited somehow. It is incredible to me that I have been off all drugs for an entire year, and I am not yet even close to well. I'm not even 50% well. I can't do anything special or out of the ordinary without risking a huge setback. It's hard to avoid a lot of sadness over that fact. I'm not sure someone could have convinced me that after an entire year off drugs it would be possible to still be this ill if I had not lived it myself.

Best of luck to you for your taper. You are going to have one fabulous brain when you are finished.

Yours,

Rosetta

Dear Rosetta,

Thank you so much for finding the time and courage to reply to my post. You have certainly been through some extremely difficult times and I really would like to send you hugs and support from the other side of the pond!

You say that you had a good day on Sunday - remember that, write it down and re-read when you are feeling low. I'm sure you will continue to re-build your brain quickly especially as I assume you are still young (with a 6 year old) - I am 56 so the brain cells are not as youthful as yours!

I have just ordered a book on Amazon called Recovery and Renewal by Baylissa Frederick - I'm hoping that it will provide some reassurance in times of need.

In the mean time, take care and keep the faith, you WILL get there. x

February 13, 2018

1 hour ago, Gridley said:

Hello, tpl,

I'm concerned you may be tapering a bit too fast. Don't forget that SA recommends a 4-week hold after each month's taper to allow your system to become accustomed to the lower dose before tapering again. I know you're anxious to be off this drug, but going slowly now will pay off later.

Best,

Gridley

Thanks for this Grindley,

I was just wondering this, especially as I noticed on my history that I had dropped from 20 to 15 in January! Patience is a virtue which I normally have in bundles, but in my desperation to be rid of the drugs I may be skipping forward a bit too much.

I appreciate your kind advice and will endeavour to go slowly over the next few months. CT is defo not on my radar any more.

Kind regards

TPL

February 13, 2018

51 minutes ago, FarmGirlWorks said:

Hi TPL,

I did a fast taper (essentially CT) from sertraline 10 months ago and it has been extremely rocky. I do wonder now what a 10% taper would have looked like. I am just such an impatient person that I realize only now -- after experiencing CT waves of suicidal anxiety -- would I be able to be patient enough to slow down the process. I don't know the right answer but SA heartily recommends the 10% taper method.

I quote Rosetta here because it IS amazing that it takes so long to remodel our brain. As I type this, I can see that well, of course, it takes a long time to build a new brain and face the grief of social isolation (high five, Rosetta), how it has affected friendships, and the concept of "wellness" at any cost... yeah, it takes a while to integrate into your body and learn to think differently about it.

Hi FGW

Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry to hear that you have been struggling since your WD from Sertraline. GP's hand it out like sweeties here in UK - horrifying thought!

If only we'd known what we were getting ourselves into eh? I certainly have had much worse symptoms during WD than I ever did before going on the drugs in the first place.

You'll never know how you would have been with a slow taper, all I can say is that the slow taper isn't a guarantee to be symptom free - I do hope that those horrible waves of suicidal anxiety pass soon - mine have definitely improved. I have done a bit of meditation/mindfulness in the form of the 'Headspace' app and I think it helps in times of desperation.

Rosetta really does deserve a high five doesn't she? I'm hoping her brain rebuilds soon, especially as I assume she is fairly young and has a 6 year old child.

When you see programmes on the TV about the recovery of the brain following trauma/strokes etc it is AMAZING the capacity it has to repair itself.

Sending you best wishes for a noticeable improvement very soon,

TPL

February 13, 2018

15 minutes ago, Thepaintinglady said:

If only we'd known what we were getting ourselves into eh? I certainly have had much worse symptoms during WD than I ever did before going on the drugs in the first place.

If only the doctors knew or cared about this very shocking fact!

No, not too young. I'm 49 this year. I don't think age has much to do with it. At least I can't decipher any factor that indicates whether a person will heal quickly or not. Not age, not time on the meds, not type of med. Maybe someone can, but I can't. There is absolutely no set of circumstances that I see that will predict the recovery time period, intensity of symptoms or specific pattern during recovery. The only thing I see that is clear is that CT is very risky.

I was off all meds for 5 months before I realized something was seriously wrong. Then it hit like a cyclone gaining in intensity for 4- 5 months. That doesn't happen to everyone. Some people get symptoms right away. It was only really horrible continuously for about 2-3 months. Again, that pattern is did not repeat itself for people who took the same med for the approximately same period of time and are about the same age. I have looked and looked and I can't find any predictive factors for what happened to me.

1 hour ago, FarmGirlWorks said:

(high five, Rosetta)

High five to you, FGW!

I do know is that sticking it out was worth it. If someone had said, "This is going to get much worse and be literally unbearable for 2-3 months, I think I would have been pretty close to giving up. But, I don't want anyone reading this to think, " Five months? A year? I can't do that!!" Because that person may not have to wait that long. It may not get as difficult as it was for me, and even if it does, she can do it. And it's worth it, and it's possible to stick it out, and that is because the brain does heal even if it takes a long time.

Best of luck to you, too, Painting Lady.

March 1, 2018

On 11/02/2018 at 12:13 PM, Thepaintinglady said:

Hi Fellow sufferers

I am reaching out to you for advice regarding my withdrawal.

I have been using the recommended 10% following my 25mg reinstatement 8 months ago. Currently on 13mg Sertraline

I've read blogs which say that by reducing at this low rate, you limit your side effects of withdrawal - maybe only having a couple of days of waves with windows (minimal symptom) at other times - that's the theory anyway.

However, my symptoms are waves 90% of the time! with only the occasional window - is this normal (is anything normal following antidepressant usage?!)

Over the last 8 months, I have had about 20 good days (one 12 day spell of continuous feeling 'normal' - pure bliss)

I last had a good day about 3 weeks ago - I've been crying most days, also have DP, dreadful stomach ache etc etc

So this withdrawal feels pretty shite most of the time - and going by the 10% rule, I'll still be withdrawing over the next year or so

Has anyone dropped quicker than 10% or even gone CT?? - If I'm suffering withdrawal symptoms almost all the time, then wouldn't it be worth doing it 'short and sharp'

I'm wondering whether to do a quicker jump as it just seems to be prolonging the agony by going so slowly and still feeling so crap!

My hubby is a great support for me and it is only he who knows how I'm really feeling most of the time - to many people, I plaster on a smile and pretend everything is ok when really it isn't at all and I'm trying not to burst into tears in public

I know many people have a much worse time than me in reality, I do function fairly normally on a day to day basis. I go out, I have lots of friendship groups, I have a lovely family, I have hobbies - I do all these things physically, although I am not always there mentally (if that makes sense?) . I make sure I never say no to anything or avoid any situation even if I'm feeling anxious - I am determined to get better and return to being me some day!

Any advice regarding recovery would be gratefully received - there are never enough 'feel good' stories etc on these forums - I guess when one gets better, this is the last place to return to.

Hoping for some support and good news to boost my confidence which seems to have eluded me lately :0

Thanks

TPL

I’m virtually at the same dose of Sertraline as you (having tapered down from 50mg) and I have the exact same dilemma as you. Sometimes I ask myself is it worth prolonging the taper unnecessarily - that’s I could make bigger cuts and come off quicker. I even contemplated doing three 5mgs cuts over three consecutive months when I reached 15mg - I soon talked myself out of it. I mainly thought about this because of the daily waves I have and whether the slow taper will continue to produce these unabated. I also thought that if slow tapering is still going to produce nasty withdrawal post zero mgs, I’d be better getting the taper over and done the sooner rather than later so that full healing can begin without the drug in my body.

It’s a tough one but like you I think I will continue to tapered at less than 10 percent per month.

March 1, 2018

15 minutes ago, Lakelander82 said:

I’m virtually at the same dose of Sertraline as you (having tapered down from 50mg) and I have the exact same dilemma as you. Sometimes I ask myself is it worth prolonging the taper unnecessarily - that’s I could make bigger cuts and come off quicker. I even contemplated doing three 5mgs cuts over three consecutive months when I reached 15mg - I soon talked myself out of it. I mainly thought about this because of the daily waves I have and whether the slow taper will continue to produce these unabated. I also thought that if slow tapering is still going to produce nasty withdrawal post zero mgs, I’d be better getting the taper over and done the sooner rather than later so that full healing can begin without the drug in my body.

It’s a tough one but like you I think I will continue to tapered at less than 10 percent per month.

OMG I could cry with joy [weird I know and of course I mean no offence ],I thought I was the only one with the same dilemma .

months of a hold and pointless .I may as well of gone to zero with the symptoms I have .I was on a snail taper .

but coming to the site unstable so long ago obviously shows I have constantly been chasing my tail.

March 1, 2018

I believe some people can be far too cautious in their approach Powerback, to the point of inertia. If for example you were having months and months of instability with no end in sight, is a little 5% cut going to make much of a difference?

For me it would be worth the gamble, for others maybe not. You don’t want to end up being hamstrung by the whole thing. I’ve just over 13 mg of this shite to get out of my body, it sounds bugger all and in fact when you look at it in the jar, looks bugger all. It’s difficult to imagine such a tiny quantity having such a dramatic effect on the body, but when you look at the receptor occupancy curves for sertraline you can see 9mg of the stuff is bound to 50% of sertongeric receptors - which leaves you in no doubt of the potency of these drugs.

March 1, 2018

I would urge caution. I know it is discouraging. Please do not be tempted to rush to the exit. Being off the drug and in even more misery is no improvement. You will just make your present and post-zero symptoms worse. You wrote:

"I've read blogs which say that by reducing at this low rate, you limit your side effects of withdrawal - maybe only having a couple of days of waves with windows (minimal symptom) at other times - that's the theory anyway."

"A couple of days of waves with windows at other times" is not realistic. It doesn't work that way in the majority of cases.

Please read the following from apace, one of our mods:

"Over time the brain will return to homeostasis and healing will occur. How long that will take and what that means when taking a healing brain along with the passage of time and mixing it all up is anyone's guess. The success stories, while they did take more time (in most cases) than any of us would like, seem to indicate that there is substantial healing and a lot of people come out "on the other side" feeling better about life and themselves than they did either before or during the use of the drugs.

It would be misleading and, frankly, unethical for me to tell you "don't worry -- you'll be fine in x months." The reality, as you already know, is frequently different.

But, at the end of the day, the people who have been doing this for a long time tell us that healing will happen and we have no reason to doubt that. The Success Stories bear that out as well and they also indicate that even those among us who are really sick and dealing with hellacious symptoms will, in the long run, see healing and recovery."

Rushing will lead to more destabilization and lengthens the time to homeostasis. I know you've read this before, but take a look again. It takes time and we are all different.

Brain Remodelling

Edited March 1, 2018 by Gridley

March 3, 2018

On 01/03/2018 at 9:26 PM, Lakelander82 said:

I believe some people can be far too cautious in their approach Powerback, to the point of inertia. If for example you were having months and months of instability with no end in sight, is a little 5% cut going to make much of a difference?

For me it would be worth the gamble, for others maybe not. You don’t want to end up being hamstrung by the whole thing. I’ve just over 13 mg of this shite to get out of my body, it sounds bugger all and in fact when you look at it in the jar, looks bugger all. It’s difficult to imagine such a tiny quantity having such a dramatic effect on the body, but when you look at the receptor occupancy curves for sertraline you can see 9mg of the stuff is bound to 50% of sertongeric receptors - which leaves you in no doubt of the potency of these drugs.

Hi Lakelander82, Thanks for your reply - nice to know there are other people (Powerback included) that are also suffering when taking such a pathetic amount of this drug.

I too have thought about doing quick 5mg cuts to get it over and done with, but have chickened out - especially when reading sensible advice from other fellow sufferers and SA staff such as Grindley (above). And, although some of our waves feel like tsunami's, the thought that we could be making it so much worse by cutting too quickly terrifies the bjesus out of me!

Also, we naievely hope that once the drug taking has finished, we will be back to normal (um, not sure I can remember what normal is?) - yet, some people report that they carried on suffering for months after! Bloody hell, doesn't that sound worrying? ........let's all look on the positive side and hope that our bodies can sort this shite out of our systems quickly and efficiently just as soon as possible and that we will be sensible and stick with the recommended slow taper.

Out of interest, how do you manage with these small doses when only a 50mg tablet of Sertraline is available? I have been using jewellers scales to weigh out in hundredths of a gram, but I think this is going to get a bit tricky as I continue to reduce the dosage.

My 29 year old daughter commented that the scales and white powder & tablet chips looked a bit dodgy! like I was on the hard drugs or something! My reply to her was that it IS dodgy and that these drugs are as dangerous to our brains as any hard narcotics out there!

Have you tried the method of dissolving a tablet in water (say 1:1 dilution) then just taking 13ml of it? I might give that a try in the next couple of days and see.

Wishing you and all the other tapering hero's a lifetime of window's

Thepaintinglady

x

Thepaintinglady: How long does the withdrawal hell last? I've lost 'me'

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