Quest

[Altostrata]

Quest, you are the only person in a position to answer this: Are you feeling better or worse on the 6 beads rather than the 12 beads?

 

If you felt better on 12 beads, reducing the Effexor is going in the wrong direction, and maybe you should go back to 12 beads and maybe even more.

 

You might find the magnesium is more helpful if you took it in smaller doses frequently throughout the day, even sip magnesium citrate powder in water.

[Quest]

On 2017-10-05 at 1:47 PM, bubble said:

I'm really sorry things are so very hard.

 

I haven't posted lately because I didn't know what to say. I believed you would stabilize on 13 balls and I thought I saw some signs of that. 

 

None of us is in your head and it's hard to really see if you are getting better or worse from your symptom log even if it is so detailed.

 

But would you say you got worse after you stopped reducing, especially after dropping to 6 balls? Your symptom log would indicate that but we are not in your head. At one point, if I remember it correctly, after dropping to 11 balls you felt better than at 13. 

 

However, if further reducing made you worse, why do you think that reducing even further and stopping entirely would make you in any way better?

 

I'm not proposing any course of action. Just thinking out loud to help you make a decision...

 

 

 

Bubble, I just noticed your post, sorry for not getting back to you until now.  I was really not well dropping to the 6 balls, it was more than a 50% drop Within a day.  This was why I was so scared to even try it.   At 6 balls I still feel high anxiety and no sleep.  At this point I do not know What to do.  If I cant stabalize on it, does it do more harm staying on?  I am beyond knowing what to do at this point.  Yesterday I was able to do something physical ,but last night when i went to bed i was ok but an hour later anxiety for most of the night.  I have no direction at this point.  

[baroquep]

Hi Quest, Personally, I wouldn't introduce anything that could potentially upset your central nervous system further, including CBT oil, supplements, bio-identical hormones, etc.  Your central nervous system is trying to recover from ALL of the changes that have been made over a long period of time.  Every time you make a change or add something new to the mix, your CNS has to readapt to the presence, or lack of, and recalibrate itself yet again to try and function and adapt to the new changes which is why we end up dealing with withdrawal symptoms.

As Alto mentioned above, only you are in a position to answer the questions that will help us guide you, we aren't in your head and don't have the ability to know how the changes are affecting you as you function in your daily life.  

 

Did you feel better when you were taking 11 beads or are you feeling better now that you are taking six beads?

Is the anxiety worse or easier to manage?

Are you sleeping better or worse since you lowered the dose?

 

As Chessie mentioned, withdrawal comes with discomfort, sometimes a lot of discomfort and we have to learn ways to fight the instinct to add/remove something hoping that it is going to be the magical solution to what ails us.  It can take many months or longer for the central nervous system to stabilize and the best thing we can do while that is taking place, is do nothing.  I tried a few supplements to bad effect and at one time I wanted to add a benzodiazepine to help with the anxiety and was advised against doing this.  I learned, thankfully, very early on, that that fewer changes I made, the simpler I made it, the better it was going to be for me in the long-run. I had to have blind faith in the moderators that the experience and advice that they were giving me would eventually help me to stabilize and it did happen though it took a lot longer than I had hoped.   

 

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by baroquep

[Quest]

9 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Quest, you are the only person in a position to answer this: Are you feeling better or worse on the 6 beads rather than the 12 beads?

 

If you felt better on 12 beads, reducing the Effexor is going in the wrong direction, and maybe you should go back to 12 beads and maybe even more.

 

You might find the magnesium is more helpful if you took it in smaller doses frequently throughout the day, even sip magnesium citrate powder in water.

Altostrata, I think I feel better on the 6 beads.  It is so hard to tell as I dropped such a  big amount in a short time.  I still have high anxiety and no sleep.  I was able to do something physical yesterday.  My depression doesn't seem as severe today.   I think about this daily on what to do, if I've done the right thing in reducing or not.  The thought of going up or down is equally disturbing for me.  

[Quest]

29 minutes ago, baroquep said:

Hi Quest, Personally, I wouldn't introduce anything that could potentially upset your central nervous system further, including CBT oil, supplements, bio-identical hormones, etc.  Your central nervous system is trying to recover from ALL of the changes that have been made over a long period of time.  Every time you make a change or add something new to the mix, your CNS has to readapt to the presence, or lack of, and recalibrate itself yet again to try and function and adapt to the new changes which is why we end up dealing with withdrawal symptoms.

As Alto mentioned above, only you are in a position to answer the questions that will help us guide you, we aren't in your head and don't have the ability to know how the changes are affecting you as you function in your daily life.  

 

Did you feel better when you were taking 11 beads or are you feeling better now that you are taking six beads?

Is the anxiety worse or easier to manage?

Are you sleeping better or worse since you lowered the dose?

 

As Chessie mentioned, withdrawal comes with discomfort, sometimes a lot of discomfort and we have to learn ways to fight the instinct to add/remove something hoping that it is going to be the magical solution to what ails us.  It can take many months or longer for the central nervous system to stabilize and the best thing we can do while that is taking place, is do nothing.  I tried a few supplements to bad effect and at one time I wanted to add a benzodiazepine to help with the anxiety and was advised against doing this.  I learned, thankfully, very early on, that that fewer changes I made, the simpler I made it, the better it was going to be for me in the long-run. I had to have blind faith in the moderators that the experience and advice that they were giving me would eventually help me to stabilize and it did happen though it took a lot longer than I had hoped.   

 

 

Yesterday was ok, the previous week was as bad on 11 beads as on 6.  The sleep is bad.  I think I feel better on less yesterday and today but the anxiety last night from 10:30 pm until waking was intense so I don't  know if that is yet once again withdrawl and its going to get worse or not, this is why I was scared to drop from the 11 to 6 beads.  I truly dont know the best course.  Do i chance staying on this amount?  My mind is extremely tired.  I do have faith in all of the moderators advice, that's one of the reasons i dropped to 6 beads.  If the reinstatement was not successful shouldn't I be getting off the effexor before it is in my body longer?  I am beyond confused as to where I go at this point, to go up or stay, or down. I dont know what to do.

[baroquep]

What we are trying to do is find a dose of Effexor that you will eventually be able to stabilize on.  I thought you were getting moments of relief from the anxiety on 11 beads (3 hours is a very good sign) and was hoping that you would eventually stabilize on 11. You then reported that the anxiety was still very intense and we'd felt that maybe the Effexor dose was too activating and the reason we advised reducing the number of beads you were taking.  Against my own best advice and a misunderstanding of MammaP's advice to reduce to 6 beads, and because you'd reported that the anxiety was still so intense, I felt that the dose was still too high and by reducing the number of beads, it would help bring the anxiety down to a more manageable level.  It's not necessarily that the reinstatement hasn't been successful, it's that not enough time has elapsed to get any clear indication of what the best course of action is.  You reinstated on September 4th and as I'd mentioned it can sometimes take months to stabilize.  

This is why it is so very important to take things slowly, so that we can determine what the best dose of Effexor is.  Some days the anxiety is going to be high, just by the nature of withdrawal, and rather than change something right away hoping to get some relief, we have to learn to manage the anxiety rather than make a change.  

 

The nature of withdrawal when a person is stabilizing is experienced as a windows and waves pattern, in other words, one day (could even be minutes or hours) you will feel awful only to find that the next minute, hour, day you will feel well.    

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

You've mentioned that you feel a little better at six beads, so perhaps 11 beads was in fact too activating, but we won't really be able to get a concise picture of what is going on until you've been at six beads over the course of many days, maybe even weeks.  

 

So what I would do if I were in your shoes, if you are feeling even slightly better at 6 beads, would be to stay at 6 beads and continue to track your progress on a daily basis to see if it is helping or causing you more difficulty and report back here to let us know if you feel the 6 beads is helping even a little bit (even if they are only small improvements) or if it is making things worse, i.e., the anxiety is ramping up, etc.  

 

You may have to be prepared to decrease and/or increase the number of beads in order to stabilize and again, these are the steps that may be necessary to help get you stabilized.  And please remember to keep reporting on your benzodiazepine thread as well as each of these drugs is interconnected in trying to get you stabilized.  If I remember correctly, Shep advised you to continue to take 3.75 zoplicone and you were in the process of moving the dose slowly to try and get you a little more sleep.      

Edited October 9, 2017 by baroquep

[Quest]

I will report to Shep as well.  It is almost 2:00 pm and I am at 9/10 anxiety right now. My depression is also creeping back over the last 2 hrs.  I am trying to distract but everything is making me hyper alert. I will try to hold at 6 balls, I was hoping if I stopped at this amount maybe the dark thoughts would stop, as well as the horrid restlessness.

Edited October 10, 2017 by baroquep
deleted large unnecessary quote.

[Altostrata]

Please hold on the 6 beads to gather more information about whether you feel better, worse, or the same.

 

Let us know how you're doing.

 

I know it's hard and you're desperate to escape the anxiety, but we have to see what your current batch of drugs is doing.

 

Please do not add anything with St. John's Wort into the mix. The supplements are not neutral.

 

 

[Quest]

19 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Please hold on the 6 beads to gather more information about whether you feel better, worse, or the same.

 

Let us know how you're doing.

 

I know it's hard and you're desperate to escape the anxiety, but we have to see what your current batch of drugs is doing.

 

Please do not add anything with St. John's Wort into the mix. The supplements are not neutral.

 

 

Messaged with Shep to see her opinion of changing up immovane and she suggested leaving it alone as well.  I think the immovane is giving me breathing issues now.  Happened before but today seems bad. It's so foreign to my nature to take something when it is doing nothing for you.  Bubble tried explaining this to me once as well.  I get it when I am calm but the no sleep is really messing with me.  Tried a lower dose of magnesium last night.  I take it for calmness and it helps me to not be so constipated.  This effexor is terrible for me this way and I eat as healthy as I can and drink a ton of water.  Do you think it would at least be safe enough to take melatonin?  Thank you for your time Alto I realize you and the others have lives and go through your own stuff everyday.  I do appreciate your time and energy.  

[Quest]

On 2017-10-09 at 11:35 AM, baroquep said:

What we are trying to do is find a dose of Effexor that you will eventually be able to stabilize on.  I thought you were getting moments of relief from the anxiety on 11 beads (3 hours is a very good sign) and was hoping that you would eventually stabilize on 11. You then reported that the anxiety was still very intense and we'd felt that maybe the Effexor dose was too activating and the reason we advised reducing the number of beads you were taking.  Against my own best advice and a misunderstanding of MammaP's advice to reduce to 6 beads, and because you'd reported that the anxiety was still so intense, I felt that the dose was still too high and by reducing the number of beads, it would help bring the anxiety down to a more manageable level.  It's not necessarily that the reinstatement hasn't been successful, it's that not enough time has elapsed to get any clear indication of what the best course of action is.  You reinstated on September 4th and as I'd mentioned it can sometimes take months to stabilize.  

This is why it is so very important to take things slowly, so that we can determine what the best dose of Effexor is.  Some days the anxiety is going to be high, just by the nature of withdrawal, and rather than change something right away hoping to get some relief, we have to learn to manage the anxiety rather than make a change.  

 

The nature of withdrawal when a person is stabilizing is experienced as a windows and waves pattern, in other words, one day (could even be minutes or hours) you will feel awful only to find that the next minute, hour, day you will feel well.    

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

You've mentioned that you feel a little better at six beads, so perhaps 11 beads was in fact too activating, but we won't really be able to get a concise picture of what is going on until you've been at six beads over the course of many days, maybe even weeks.  

 

So what I would do if I were in your shoes, if you are feeling even slightly better at 6 beads, would be to stay at 6 beads and continue to track your progress on a daily basis to see if it is helping or causing you more difficulty and report back here to let us know if you feel the 6 beads is helping even a little bit (even if they are only small improvements) or if it is making things worse, i.e., the anxiety is ramping up, etc.  

 

You may have to be prepared to decrease and/or increase the number of beads in order to stabilize and again, these are the steps that may be necessary to help get you stabilized.  And please remember to keep reporting on your benzodiazepine thread as well as each of these drugs is interconnected in trying to get you stabilized.  If I remember correctly, Shep advised you to continue to take 3.75 zoplicone and you were in the process of moving the dose slowly to try and get you a little more sleep.      

It has been since Oct. 2/17 that I have reduced by 1/2 to 6 balls and left the immovane at 3.75.  Today has been really not good. Anxiety is 9/10 right now, no sleep.  No appetite. Should I have made such a drastic drop?  The restlessness is crazy right now.  Can't concentrate on anything.  I even tried acupuncture today after two months to try and reduce this anxiety.  Dark thoughts coming back. How can I even make sure that the 6 balls are close to the same dose everyday?  I don't think I can feel like this for another month.  Been trying to breathe and keep busy, so not working today.  I wish I knew whether to go up or down or at this amount stop.  How long do you give a reinstatement before you say it didn't work?  

[baroquep]

Are you feeling worse or better at 6 beads than you were at 11 beads?  

Has the anxiety (with the exception of today) gotten any better or any worse on a day-by-day basis?

 

Unfortunately, it can sometimes take a long time to stabilize, if I remember correctly it took MammaP approximately seven months before she felt well.  When I destabilized back in January/February this year, it took me until May to start feeling some relief.  Until you stabilize, you are going to have good days and bad days, it's just the nature of withdrawal.  The bad days tend to lessen in intensity and you will experience more good days than bad as you start to stabilize.  

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization  

 

I've copied the information from the reinstatement topic which might be able to explain things a little better:

How long should you give reinstatement?

• It takes at least 4 days for your body to fully register the addition of a neuroactive drug. Unless you have an immediate bad reaction, observe your symptom pattern for about a week to see if the reinstatement is helping. If you have an immediate bad reaction, reduce or stop taking the drug.
• After reinstatement, the amount of time needed to alleviate withdrawal symptoms (stabilizing) varies according to the individual. Relief can be felt immediately, after some weeks, or after some months.
• Once you feel withdrawal symptoms are reduced after reinstatement, give your nervous system time to stabilize before attempting dosage reduction. Think in terms of months, not days.
• Be patient after you reinstate. Reinstatement may not immediately eliminate all withdrawal symptoms. You may still experience waves of symptoms, which usually lessen as time goes on. Do not attempt to taper again until you feel symptom-free, or at least until your withdrawal symptoms are mild and tolerable.
• The dose needed for effective reinstatement varies according to the individual.

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms
What to Expect in Reinstatement (James Heaney article)

 

 

 

[Quest]

Yesterday was not bad for anxiety. The only few hours I had.    When I restarted on Sept4/17 I had terrible anxiety but I had just stopped remeron and then had stopped effexor at 5 mgs in may and had tried for 4 days to ri the end of July before they put me on remeron.  I have no clue what to do at this point.  I know I can't feel like this for much longer.  Will I have full blown akathisia if I just stop the 6 balls?  I never should have started that immovane again after 5 months!  I have come down 50% within 8 days.  And dropped from 15 to 13 -11-6 beads within  a month and a half.  How can I even make sure the 6 ball dose is close? I am sure this changes every day? At this point I don't even know if I should try something different.  I am so lost in what to do.  I will put up my symptoms when I get home and maybe you can see something I do not.  My mind is so cluttered and foggy right now. 

 

[AliG]

Quest. You don't have to do anything differently. Just keep on as you are for now. You are slowly stabilizing and that is a lot of work for your brain. Please, just allow it to do it's job. Don't obsess.

 

Stay calm and take very good care of yourself. That is your job.

[Quest]

31 minutes ago, Quest said:

Yesterday was not bad for anxiety. The only few hours I had.    When I restarted on Sept4/17 I had terrible anxiety but I had just stopped remeron and then had stopped effexor at 5 mgs in may and had tried for 4 days to ri the end of July before they put me on remeron.  I have no clue what to do at this point.  I know I can't feel like this for much longer.  Will I have full blown akathisia if I just stop the 6 balls?  I never should have started that immovane again after 5 months!  I have come down 50% within 8 days.  And dropped from 15 to 13 -11-6 beads within  a month and a half.  How can I even make sure the 6 ball dose is close? I am sure this changes every day? At this point I don't even know if I should try something different.  I am so lost in what to do.  I will put up my symptoms when I get home and maybe you can see something I do not.  My mind is so cluttered and foggy right now. 

 

 

10-08/17

 

Am:

 

12:00 - restless, low anxiety, exhausted

2:30 - stir awake

5:30 - huge cortisol spike, anxiety 7/10, despair

8:30 - banana, 1300 mgs of fish oil, 500 mgs of effexor, very tired, eyes feel like sand, anxiety 4/10

10:00 - 6 balls of effexor

10:30 - feels like I'm moving g in slow motion

11:00 - smoothie

11:30 - trying to change beds, how can this take so long?

 

Pm:

 

12:00 - some hamburger with veg.

1:00 -anxiety 5/10

1:30 - daughter came over, she is happy, I wish I could feel and enjoy her life with her😢

3:00 - anxiety 6/10. I am very tired.

4:30 - anxiety 5/10

5:00 -making a small turkey roast and potatoes.  Husband goes back to work in 2 days.

5:30 -bad cold on top of my tired..... Oh to sleep~

6:00 - supper, feed the animals

8:00 - finished laundry

8:30 - shower

9:30 - bed

10:00 - 3.75 of immovane

11:00 - anxiety 8/10, no sleep

_____________________________________________________

 

10-09/17

 

Am:

12:30 - 

1:00 -anxiety6/10

1:30 - still awake

3:00 - laying here, keeping warm

4:30 - tossing and turning

5:30 - 

6:00 - very restless

7:30 - up

8:00 - banana

10:00 - 6 balls of effexor

11:00 - 

11:30 - anxiety7/10

 

Pm:

 

12:00 - 

12:30 - 

1:00 -ate some lunch

2:30 - 8/10 anxiety

2:00-9/10 anxiety

3:00 - real bad inner restlessness, head zaps, brain fog, tingling legs, feet , hands

4:00 - blurry vision

4:30 - can not cry, my beautiful daughter who has severe health issues was devastated and in tears and I couldn't cry, what is happening to me?

5:00 -went outside to get some fresh air

5:30 -made supper, anxiety is 6/10 no breaks today

6:00 - very exhausted

6:30 - 3/4 of my 200 mgs of magnesium, will try to get it down over next week.  Probiotic

7:30 - anxiety 4/10

8:00 - trying to do some laundry

9:00 - bed

9:30 - 3.75 mgs of immovane

11:30- still awake

12:00-anxiety seems stable 

_____________________________________________________

 

10--10/17

 

Am:

1:30 - I so need to sleep

3:00 - laying here trying to be warm

4:30 - anxiety ramping up 5/10

5:30 - trying to listen to hypnosis or meditation

6:00 - so exhausted, weak

6:30 - anxiety 5/10

8:00 - banana

9:00 - hard time breathing, heart racing

10:00 - 6 beads of effexor

10:30 - ate some turkey and potatoes

11:00 - apple

 

Pm:

 

12:00 - anxiety 4/10

1:00 -trying to distract

2:00 - anxiety 4/10

2:30 - reading, dogs

3:00 - my poor eyes are so tired and dried out, blurry.  So want to  sleep, would nap!

3:30 - going to get son and groceries

4:00 - abseloutely freezing, hands, feet

4:30 - went groceries, did it without going batshit

5:00 -anxiety 4/10, 

5:30 -making supper, animals

6:00 - spaghetti

6:30 - sore neck, bobblehead, fuzzy brain

7:00 - so tired, the bags under my eyes are lovely

7:30 - want to sleep .  Restless but don't want to walk around

8:00 - hard to sit, sore upper back and shoulders

9:00 - bedroom time

9:30 - 3.75 mgs of immovane

10:30 - burning brain

 

 

_____________________________________________________

 

10-11/17

 

Am:

 

12:00 - so awake

1:30 - up and down 

5:00 - I need sleep, so tired

5:30 - anxiety 5/10

7:00 - trying to breathe and distract

8:00 - smoothie, 

9:30 - anxiety 5/10

10:00 - 6 beads of effexor, depression coming on again

11:00 - went to acupuncture for first time since July

 

Pm:

 

12:00 - tried eating, apple, some 

12:30 - having a hard time sitting still

1:00 -very cold and tired

1:30 - terrible restlessness and anxiety 7/10

2:00 - mixed up about a 1/4 of magnesium 200 mgs to see if I can control some anxiety

2:30 - my ears are really bothering me , totally plugged and feel like they want yo explode, high anxiety 7/10

4:00 - 7/10 anxiety, very shaky and jittery, having a real hard time sitting still

4:30 - burning blood, shaky and weak anxiety 8/10, no appetite

5:00 -drove son to gym

6:00 - anxiety7/10

7:00 - tried to eat

[baroquep]

Quest,

 

It certainly looks like the anxiety is starting to wane a little and that is what you are looking for.  It's a small improvement, but improvement nonetheless.  In withdrawal we take it where we can find it   As AliG mentioned, you don't need to do anything differently at this time.  Doing nothing as far as your medication is concerned is exactly where you want to be.  I think Alto mentioned above to sip on magnesium throughout the day to help with the anxiety ... I found that Natural Calm magnesium powder was helpful and I'd sip it throughout the day.  

 

Please just focus on taking very good care of yourself and let us know how you are doing.  

 

  

[Quest]

On 2017-10-09 at 3:15 PM, Altostrata said:

Please hold on the 6 beads to gather more information about whether you feel better, worse, or the same.

 

Let us know how you're doing.

 

I know it's hard and you're desperate to escape the anxiety, but we have to see what your current batch of drugs is doing.

 

Please do not add anything with St. John's Wort into the mix. The supplements are not neutral.

 

 

 

On 2017-10-08 at 8:02 PM, ChessieCat said:

 

Time IS natural.  We feel that we need to do something.  Waiting IS doing.

I have had a real day with dp/dr.  I first noticed this in August after 3 days of starting the remeron but have noticed this last week it has been getting worse.  Q: Is this still remeron withdrawl?  Will it go away, is there something i can do.  My head is completely stuffed and my ears feel like they are going to explode today.  Can't yawn or cry?  I find it really hard interacting with my loved ones! This is completely opposite to who I was, even when i was on effexor for 11 years, didnt feel this way.  Any thoughts on how to keep connected?  Thank you~

[baroquep]

Hi Quest,

 

Hope you are feeling a little better today and the anxiety is getting a little more manageable.  DP/DR are one of the scariest withdrawal symptoms.  I experienced this sensation when I first switched from Pristiq and Effexor and it was horrible ... felt like everyone was in a tunnel and I wouldn't have been able to touch them if I'd reached out to them.  I was so afraid that I didn't dare say anything to anyone as I felt that I was literally going stark raving mad.  That is one of the reasons that it was so important to me to stay connected to this site, so that I could reassure myself that all of these things were completely normal when dealing with withdrawal and would eventually soften.   

 

At this time it would be impossible to know whether it is from the Remeron or any of the other changes.  As I mentioned previously, once you stabilize, most of the symptoms will lessen in intensity and will be much easier to manage.  Thought I'd attach the link where members discuss this symptom and found it helped me just knowing that other people have had this experience and how they coped with it.  I'm also attaching a link written by Monica Cassani who writes for Beyond Meds and is a success story from Surviving Antidepressants.  I found her story very compelling and this site very informative and how, even in the most severe situations, we eventually get through it to the other side.  

Derealization or Depersonalization

Beyond Meds - Monica Cassani Discusses Depersonalization and Derealization

[Quest]

Thank you Baroquep, have a nice evening~

[powerback]

Hi Quest thought ide come over to your thread and reply to you , ye if you were closer ide give you some grains no problem ,I do eat bad here and there  ide like to be much more cleaner [had a pizza from takeaway the other night so yummy ].I see cooking as something to fill the time and keep busy ,I fancied a chowder yesterday so I got the bits and went up to my mams and the two of us had it .I'm going to make a bigger effort to get sugar out of my diet .

I know motivation is hard with what we are going through but see good nutrition as healing for us .

doing your own kefir isn't has hard as you think but ye do need to keep an eye on the process to make sure your getting the benefits .coming into the colder weather I need to make sure the temperature stays  correct .

there's no magic bullet but introducing super foods and nutrition can only help ,people could be using supplements that aren't being broken down in there system so a waste of money .

your need to get some weight on to you .

here's a smoothie for you :banana ,half an avocado ,a few walnuts ,teaspoon of wheatgrass powder ,half teaspoon of turmeric ,a twist of black pepper [this helps the body absorb the turmeric ] .all in a blender with water to the consistency that you prefer .

Hope your doing well and take care 

PB

[Altostrata]

On 10/10/2017 at 9:29 AM, Quest said:

Messaged with Shep to see her opinion of changing up immovane and she suggested leaving it alone as well.  I think the immovane is giving me breathing issues now.

 

Why do you think the Immovane is giving you breathing issues? Which symptoms do you think the Immovane is causing, and why?

 

15 hours ago, Quest said:

My head is completely stuffed and my ears feel like they are going to explode today.

 

Didn't you say you had a cold?

[Quest]

I can' t seem to catch a full breath some days.  Seems to stop half way.  Started to notice it around 3rd week of sept.  Seems to get worse some days.  Yes, I have a cold.  The ears have never felt like this before.... Burning, extreme pressure close to the skull on both sides, sort of feels completely plugged off.  I keep trying to swallow  or attempt yawning to clear them.  When I take the pill at night, about a 1/2 an hr. Or hour later if I can doze i am startled wide awake with a burning sensation in shoulders, neck, feelings of despair and restlessness.  I know that it is making my depression and anxiety more intense, and no matter what I eat, I am losing more weight. First thing in the morning I have no appetite at all.  

[street129]

2 hours ago, Quest said:

I can' t seem to catch a full breath some days.  Seems to stop half way.  Started to notice it around 3rd week of sept.  Seems to get worse some days.  Yes, I have a cold.  The ears have never felt like this before.... Burning, extreme pressure close to the skull on both sides, sort of feels completely plugged off.  I keep trying to swallow  or attempt yawning to clear them.  When I take the pill at night, about a 1/2 an hr. Or hour later if I can doze i am startled wide awake with a burning sensation in shoulders, neck, feelings of despair and restlessness.  I know that it is making my depression and anxiety more intense, and no matter what I eat, I am losing more weight. First thing in the morning I have no appetite at all.  

im praying for both of us, and thanks for your message. i am at my worst right now too. and im praying something gave for both of us soon.   im also experiencing heat in my leg and back so  you're not alone in your symptoms. some told me to hang in there for a while . lets hang in together.

[Shep]

14 minutes ago, Quest said:

I can' t seem to catch a full breath some days.  Seems to stop half way.  Started to notice it around 3rd week of sept.  Seems to get worse some days.  Yes, I have a cold.  The ears have never felt like this before...

 

 

Two questions:

 

1.  Are you taking any medications or supplements for your cold (including any cough drops, etc)?

 

2. Are the breathing difficulties throughout the day or just after taking the z-drug at night? It's probably being made worse by your cold, but there's a symptom called "air hunger" that a lot of people on the benzo boards post about. I wrote about it recently on Frogie's thread and it may help you to take a read - http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/12927-frogie-lexapro-how-to-get-below-10-mg/?do=findComment&comment=306025

 

And a couple more breathing videos are here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/12927-frogie-lexapro-how-to-get-below-10-mg/?do=findComment&comment=306037

 

 

[Quest]

6 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

 

Two questions:

 

1.  Are you taking any medications or supplements for your cold (including any cough drops, etc)?

 

2. Are the breathing difficulties throughout the day or just after taking the z-drug at night? It's probably being made worse by your cold, but there's a symptom called "air hunger" that a lot of people on the benzo boards post about. I wrote about it recently on Frogie's thread and it may help you to take a read - http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/12927-frogie-lexapro-how-to-get-below-10-mg/?do=findComment&comment=306025

 

And a couple more breathing videos are here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/12927-frogie-lexapro-how-to-get-below-10-mg/?do=findComment&comment=306037

 

 

Nothing for the cold.  Did have a children's sucret on Sunday.  Breathing difficulties are mostly after z and sometimes throughout the day as well.  

[Quest]

1 hour ago, street129 said:

im praying for both of us, and thanks for your message. i am at my worst right now too. and im praying something gave for both of us soon.   im also experiencing heat in my leg and back so  you're not alone in your symptoms. some told me to hang in there for a while . lets hang in together.

I am sorry to hear you aren't doing well street129.  I too will send up a prayer.  It is hard to keep yourself distracted and busy when youre not feeling well, so get it~. I too have to make myself move and get some fresh air.  I'm going to try and eat and go outside.  Did you get some air today?  

[powerback]

On ‎13‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 8:29 AM, powerback said:

Hi Quest thought ide come over to your thread and reply to you , ye if you were closer ide give you some grains no problem ,I do eat bad here and there  ide like to be much more cleaner [had a pizza from takeaway the other night so yummy ].I see cooking as something to fill the time and keep busy ,I fancied a chowder yesterday so I got the bits and went up to my mams and the two of us had it .I'm going to make a bigger effort to get sugar out of my diet .

I know motivation is hard with what we are going through but see good nutrition as healing for us .

doing your own kefir isn't has hard as you think but ye do need to keep an eye on the process to make sure your getting the benefits .coming into the colder weather I need to make sure the temperature stays  correct .

there's no magic bullet but introducing super foods and nutrition can only help ,people could be using supplements that aren't being broken down in there system so a waste of money .

your need to get some weight on to you .

here's a smoothie for you :banana ,half an avocado ,a few walnuts ,teaspoon of wheatgrass powder ,half teaspoon of turmeric ,a twist of black pepper [this helps the body absorb the turmeric ] .all in a blender with water to the consistency that you prefer .

Hope your doing well and take care 

PB

your need to get some weight on to you .

I hope I didn't offend you quest by this comment ,I never meant to at all . I'm just so passionate about keeping our strength up in this recovery process .

respect to you

PB 

[Quest]

On 2017-10-11 at 5:33 PM, baroquep said:

Are you feeling worse or better at 6 beads than you were at 11 beads?  

Has the anxiety (with the exception of today) gotten any better or any worse on a day-by-day basis?

 

Unfortunately, it can sometimes take a long time to stabilize, if I remember correctly it took MammaP approximately seven months before she felt well.  When I destabilized back in January/February this year, it took me until May to start feeling some relief.  Until you stabilize, you are going to have good days and bad days, it's just the nature of withdrawal.  The bad days tend to lessen in intensity and you will experience more good days than bad as you start to stabilize.  

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization  

 

I've copied the information from the reinstatement topic which might be able to explain things a little better:

How long should you give reinstatement?

• It takes at least 4 days for your body to fully register the addition of a neuroactive drug. Unless you have an immediate bad reaction, observe your symptom pattern for about a week to see if the reinstatement is helping. If you have an immediate bad reaction, reduce or stop taking the drug.
• After reinstatement, the amount of time needed to alleviate withdrawal symptoms (stabilizing) varies according to the individual. Relief can be felt immediately, after some weeks, or after some months.
• Once you feel withdrawal symptoms are reduced after reinstatement, give your nervous system time to stabilize before attempting dosage reduction. Think in terms of months, not days.
• Be patient after you reinstate. Reinstatement may not immediately eliminate all withdrawal symptoms. You may still experience waves of symptoms, which usually lessen as time goes on. Do not attempt to taper again until you feel symptom-free, or at least until your withdrawal symptoms are mild and tolerable.
• The dose needed for effective reinstatement varies according to the individual.

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms
What to Expect in Reinstatement (James Heaney article)

 

 

 

Things are not so great, maybe an hour of sleep if that.  Anxiety through the night immovane is just as big a factor of  my issues.  As of this point I am running out of any semblance of strength.  My hair has been falling out more and more this past month, finding it hard to drink water let alone eat.  My stomach keeps clenching and have a real hard time not moving constantly.  I am running real low on any remaining strength I had.  I wish I knew what to do, stop or continue  the  Effexor.  My brain is so gone right now, the fog do/ dr  and anxiety is so amplified right now.    Well after all my complaining, I do hope your day goes well.  Thank you for listening~

[baroquep]

Quest, I absolutely know how difficult it can be, I was where you are now not long ago and really feel for you.  It makes me so angry when I see story after story on this site and all over the internet with people suffering from the effects of these drugs.  Doctors just have no idea how they affect such a large percentage of the population.  The pharmaceutical companies have been negligent in educating not only the doctors but the public at large and it is unconscionable in my opinion.

While it may not feel like you are heading in the right direction, you are.  Your central nervous system is crying out right now from all the changes that have been made and what it needs now is complete freedom to make the adjustments necessary to return to homeostasis, and it is going to take time.  The harder we fight against it, the worse we make it for ourselves.  

All I can say is try and accept what is going on with you right now and treat yourself with the utmost care.  Dig deep to find the strength within you to carry on as you are, by the minute if you have to.  Just try and convince yourself that this is your new normal, for now, and cultivate the strength you have within you to get through another day no matter how uncomfortable you are.  I'd wake up some mornings with the feeling that the anxiety and depression was deep in my bones but I knew I had to carry on as I really didn't have any choice ... I knew that if I made any changes to the drugs I was taking was just going to make things worse, so I plodded through yet another day.  Over time, a lot of time, the good days outnumbered the bad days until the anxiety and depression softened and I started to get a new lease on life.  I nurtured what little strength I had and pushed myself through more days than I care to remember.  

We all have more strength inside of us than we realize and have to call on it and nurture ourselves through the darkest of days.  I know that it is not what you want to hear right now, it's hard to hang onto the thought that things will eventually get better, but they do.  The intensity of your symptoms will begin to soften but it is your job right now to keep things simple, slow and stable and try to accept this is your new normal, at least for now.

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable   
Acceptance

Edited October 14, 2017 by baroquep

[Quest]

I so do appreciate your valuable time away from your own life.  I just look around at how I am affecting my family and I cant be apart of their world anymore.  I truly wish I had found this site sooner like so many others.  I fear I am losing what few marbles I have left.  Thank you for your kindness and bless you~

[Scorpio]

4 hours ago, Quest said:

 

Hi quest

im so sorry you are still struggling so badly please keep going, I know it is so frightening and we feel so hopeless but we will get there. The posts you have received today all say the same thing, it is time and stability. We both want to be off these horrible drugs but we can only do it slowly and give our brains time to calm down. Just take one day at a time. 

Big hugs 

[Quest]

17 hours ago, powerback said:

your need to get some weight on to you .

I hope I didn't offend you quest by this comment ,I never meant to at all . I'm just so passionate about keeping our strength up in this recovery process .

respect to you

PB 

Thank you for the recipe, probably couldn't do the numeric but next time is in town I can see if I can get some wheat grass.  Never heard of it!  Hope your day went well, you are sounding strong, thanks for thinking of me~. Still want you to be my 👨‍🍳I would probably feel 10x better....

[Quest]

5 hours ago, Scorpio said:

Hi quest

im so sorry you are still struggling so badly please keep going, I know it is so frightening and we feel so hopeless but we will get there. The posts you have received today all say the same thing, it is time and stability. We both want to be off these horrible drugs but we can only do it slowly and give our brains time to calm down. Just take one day at a time. 

Big hugs 

Am sure glad you glad you had such a great day Scorpio, that was so nice to see...  Have a wonderful evening and I wish you a good morning🍀

[Quest]

On 2017-10-13 at 0:22 PM, street129 said:

im praying for both of us, and thanks for your message. i am at my worst right now too. and im praying something gave for both of us soon.   im also experiencing heat in my leg and back so  you're not alone in your symptoms. some told me to hang in there for a while . lets hang in together.

Hello street129, hope you had a bit better of a day.  I managed this afternoon to go out, had to get food!  Figures the necessities in life have to be met whether we feel like it or not~. Hope you have a good night, check in with you tomorrow~

[powerback]

5 hours ago, Quest said:

Thank you for the recipe, probably couldn't do the numeric but next time is in town I can see if I can get some wheat grass.  Never heard of it!  Hope your day went well, you are sounding strong, thanks for thinking of me~. Still want you to be my 👨‍🍳I would probably feel 10x better....

hi Quest ,there's spirulina powder also ,there fast and handy ways to get nutrients into the body to keep up our strength .well its taken this protracted withdrawal to realise I am strong ,but we all are ,sure am I correct in reading you have 3 kids ,that's serious strength .

Take care 

PB

[Scorpio]

10 hours ago, Quest said:

Am sure glad you glad you had such a great day Scorpio, that was so nice to see...  Have a wonderful evening and I wish you a good morning🍀

Hi quest

well done on getting out again, you are beating this. How is the sleep any improvement for you.  My good day yesterday has disappeared today tried to do to much by attacking the garden two hours later reduced to a crying, anxious wreck so not a good idea. Another lost day for me I think.,

[Quest]

On 2017-10-14 at 8:36 AM, baroquep said:

Quest, I absolutely know how difficult it can be, I was where you are now not long ago and really feel for you.  It makes me so angry when I see story after story on this site and all over the internet with people suffering from the effects of these drugs.  Doctors just have no idea how they affect such a large percentage of the population.  The pharmaceutical companies have been negligent in educating not only the doctors but the public at large and it is unconscionable in my opinion.

While it may not feel like you are heading in the right direction, you are.  Your central nervous system is crying out right now from all the changes that have been made and what it needs now is complete freedom to make the adjustments necessary to return to homeostasis, and it is going to take time.  The harder we fight against it, the worse we make it for ourselves.  

All I can say is try and accept what is going on with you right now and treat yourself with the utmost care.  Dig deep to find the strength within you to carry on as you are, by the minute if you have to.  Just try and convince yourself that this is your new normal, for now, and cultivate the strength you have within you to get through another day no matter how uncomfortable you are.  I'd wake up some mornings with the feeling that the anxiety and depression was deep in my bones but I knew I had to carry on as I really didn't have any choice ... I knew that if I made any changes to the drugs I was taking was just going to make things worse, so I plodded through yet another day.  Over time, a lot of time, the good days outnumbered the bad days until the anxiety and depression softened and I started to get a new lease on life.  I nurtured what little strength I had and pushed myself through more days than I care to remember.  

We all have more strength inside of us than we realize and have to call on it and nurture ourselves through the darkest of days.  I know that it is not what you want to hear right now, it's hard to hang onto the thought that things will eventually get better, but they do.  The intensity of your symptoms will begin to soften but it is your job right now to keep things simple, slow and stable and try to accept this is your new normal, at least for now.

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable   
Acceptance

Baroquep, I hope your day is going all right with your reduction.  You are very strong and intuitive with your body and I wish you the very best of luck.