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ChessieCat
5 hours ago, Quest said:

being on penicillin for the past 6 days contributes

 

After seeing this I Iooked back through your posts and the only reference I could find to penicillin was in your signature:

 

"Started penicillium for strep infection Sept. 1/17 for seven days"

 

See:  cipro-levaquin-azithromycin-z-pack-and-other-antibiotics

 

The penicillin may be causing problems or just adding to the problems.

 

Now that we are aware of this fact, I would definitely suggest holding on the 5mg effexor.

 

5 hours ago, Quest said:

go on St. John's wort with the effexor?

 

It would be better to increase the effexor (please see above comment in bold) a tiny bit rather than to add in a different drug.  St John's Wort works very similarly to Prozac.  Adding something new in will  only make it difficult to work out whether should increase the effexor.

 

You need to be patient and allow some more time.

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Quest
6 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

After seeing this I Iooked back through your posts and the only reference I could find to penicillin was in your signature:

 

"Started penicillium for strep infection Sept. 1/17 for seven days"

 

See:  cipro-levaquin-azithromycin-z-pack-and-other-antibiotics

 

The penicillin may be causing problems or just adding to the problems.

 

Now that we are aware of this fact, I would definitely suggest holding on the 5mg effexor.

 

 

It would be better to increase the effexor (please see above comment in bold) a tiny bit rather than to add in a different drug.  St John's Wort works very similarly to Prozac.  Adding something new in will  only make it difficult to work out whether should increase the effexor.

 

You need to be patient and allow some more time.

Will the 5 mgs help lift this depression?  I can barely move and am so weak.  I am sure the antibiotics are contributing, but I am so scared that effexor is not going to work anymore no I am losing my window of raising it.  Is such a small amount capable of helping my well being?  I feel like I'm going crazy with the anxiety and no sleep.  

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mammaP

Try to be patient Quest, it will take time and like you said, the antibiotic will not be helping.  I agree with the others not to go up to 37.5. Just hang in there. I know it's hard, I've been where you are and it does get better.  Did the zopiclone help before you reduced it? 

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ChessieCat
On 08/09/2017 at 8:53 AM, ChessieCat said:

You need to be patient and allow some more time.

 

I know it seems like it's been forever, but it has hasn't been that long since you reinstated 5mg.  If it were me I would be at least giving it a total of 2 weeks at 5mg effexor.

 

Have you tried Magnesium?   I take it and find that it takes the edge off my anxiety.  The times that I have stopped taking it the anxiety returns and when I resume it has lessened.

 

I understand it is difficult but it is important to try and stay as calm as possible during this period.  At this time you just need to sit with the discomfort, in other words don't fight it, and not to add fear.  Staying as calm as possible gives your brain the best environment to heal and stabilise.  Stress diverts the brain away from healing because it is trying to deal with the stress.

 

Even just a simple thing like reminding yourself that this is only temporary can help.  It doesn't matter if you don't believe it, but it can help to switch your mind from spiralling into negative thinking.

 

Something that you might find helpful is setting a timer throughout the day to remind yourself to do something calming, eg controlled deep breathing, or a yoga position like "legs up the wall".  The more we practice these things the easier it becomes.  Sometimes it can be the most simplest of things that can make a difference.  It doesn't matter if it is only a small difference.  Any relief for a brief period can help us to get through it.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

Acceptance

 

Sleep Hypnosis, Guided Meditations, Calming Videos


Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

Edited by ChessieCat

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Quest
14 minutes ago, mammaP said:

Try to be patient Quest, it will take time and like you said, the antibiotic will not be helping.  I agree with the others not to go up to 37.5. Just hang in there. I know it's hard, I've been where you are and it does get better.  Did the zopiclone help before you reduced it? 

Don't know scared to go up to 7.5 as I know I will be addicted.  Dr. Today gave me heck about the 5 mgs. Said I was wasting her time by not being open to try other drugs as well as 5 mgs will not do anything, that the therapeutic dose is 37.5!    Then wrote me another prescription for sublinox saying zoplicone gives dimentia and the other was safer. Everything just gets messed up in my head.  Do you think the 5 mgs can help with this terrible depression and anxiety?  Thanks for getting back to me, you guys are like a lifeline to me right now.  So appreciate your time~

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Quest
19 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

I know it seems like it's been forever, but it has been that long since you reinstated 5mg.  If it were me I would be at least giving it a total of 2 weeks at 5mg effexor.

 

Have you tried Magnesium?   I take it and find that it takes the edge off my anxiety.  The times that I have stopped taking it the anxiety returns and when I resume it has lessened.

 

I understand it is difficult but it is important to try and stay as calm as possible during this period.  At this time you just need to sit with the discomfort, in other words don't fight it, and not to add fear.  Staying as calm as possible gives your brain the best environment to heal and stabilise.  Stress diverts the brain away from healing because it is trying to deal with the stress.

 

Even just a simple thing like reminding yourself that this is only temporary can help.  It doesn't matter if you don't believe it, but it can help to switch your mind from spiralling into negative thinking.

 

Something that you might find helpful is setting a timer throughout the day to remind yourself to do something calming, eg controlled deep breathing, or a yoga position like "legs up the wall".  The more we practice these things the easier it becomes.  Sometimes it can be the most simplest of things that can make a difference.  It doesn't matter if it is only a small difference.  Any relief for a brief period can help us to get through it.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

Acceptance

 

Sleep Hypnosis, Guided Meditations, Calming Videos


Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

Thankyou, for your time and kind words.  It seems no one except you guys will talk about this and this method.  All drs. Think I am mental and being over reactive and stubborn about not trying other drugs.  I know everyone on here is suffering but boy is it easy to get wrapped up in your own tiny terror bubble!  I hope this finds you doing ok too ~

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mammaP

Doctors haven't a clue! I had the same thing from my doctor that 5 beads is ridiculous, he said that 75mg was a 'homeopathic'  dose. They don't know how to do anything other than throw more drugs in the mix. Adding and changing until we are completely wrecked then call it treatment resistant.  

Look at your signature at all the changes since December, on and off so many drugs and differing doses that your poor brain is  struggling to find normality. It will get  back to homeostasis but it will take time to  get everything back in place.  Give it a chance to stabilise. I am sure you will feel a bit better when the antibiotics are finished and your body has adjusted after them. It would be a good idea to take a pro biotic when they have finished to rebalance the gut flora, that can make you feel rotten after antibiotics. 

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ChessieCat

You're very welcome Quest.  It makes us understand why this site exists.

 

Here's the SA topic probiotics-and-gut-health/

 

 

The more we learn the better able we are to make informed decisions.  The books Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker and Your Drug May Be Your Problem by Peter Breggin are both worthwhile books to read.

 

 

These are very interesting.  Gwen Olsen was a pharmaceutical rep for 15 years:

 


Interview:  Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher (51 minutes Gwen Olsen - ex pharmaceutical representative)

 

 

And this is also an eye opener.  Kirsch obtained unpublished clinical trials through Freedom of Information:

 

Video:  Irving Kirsch:  Emperor's New Drugs:  Antidepressants and the Placebo Effect (1 hour 20 minutes)

 

And also see this regarding the above:

 

Antidepressants and the Placebo Effect by Irving Kirsch (link to full article)

Abstract:

Antidepressants are supposed to work by fixing a chemical imbalance, specifically, a lack of serotonin in the brain.  Indeed, their supposed effectiveness is the primary evidence for the chemical imbalance theory.  But analyses of the published data and the unpublished data that were hidden by drug companies reveals that most (if not all) of the benefits are due to the placebo effect.  Some antidepressants increase serotonin levels, some decrease it, and some have no effect at all on serotonin.  Nevertheless, they all show the same therapeutic benefit.  Even the small statistical difference between antidepressants and placebos may be an enhanced placebo effect, due to the fact that most patients and doctors in clinical trials successfully break blind.  The serotonin theory is as close as any theory in the history of science to having been proved wrong.  Instead of curing depression, popular antidepressants may induce a biological vulnerability making people more likely to become depressed in the future.

Excerpt:

How Did These Drugs Get Approved?
....
The FDA requires two adequately conducted clinical trials showing a significant difference between drug and placebo.  But there is a loophole:  there is no limit to the number of trials that can be conducted in search of these two significant trials.  Trials showing negative results simply do not count.  Furthermore, the clinical significance of the findings is not considered.  All that matters is that the results are statistically significant.
....
(NB:  emphasis in abstract and excerpt are mine)

 

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Quest

I have both the Peter Breggin books which abseloutely terrified me.  All of this evidence and still the stuff is being prescribed.  Now we have to learn how to live without them but they cause exactly what they are supposed to heal?!  I hate the anxiety but the depression- that is a whole different animal for me.  It actually hurts. Thanks for the resources, I will be sure to look them over.  Have a good evening and thank you very much, you have no idea how much you all help people.  

 

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ChessieCat

 

1 hour ago, Quest said:

I hope this finds you doing ok too ~

 

I've actually just posted this in response to another member asking after my own taper so I'll paste it here for you as well:

 

Thank you for asking :)  On the whole I would say it's going well and my symptoms are minimal.  However, even though they are minimal they do change.  Recently I've been unable to skim through what I'm reading to glean the information I need, whereas not long ago I could do that.  Another thing I notice which has happened several times is my ability to multi task.  And sometimes when I'm working on something I have to talk out loud to myself as I do something to get through the stages to complete a task.  I've also noticed that sometimes I can't type as accurately I usually do and my typing speed also varies.  My level of anxiety and irritably changes too.

 

The reasons I've gone into details about my own experience is to help you to understand that even doing a slow, careful taper still produces withdrawal symptoms.  It's to be expected.  Our brains our busy trying to regain homoeostasis.

 

I understand it so don't stress about it.  If you are the sort of person to post up reminders you could post up "I feel like this because my brain is healing" or something similiar.

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Quest
On 2017-09-07 at 7:04 PM, Quest said:

I have both the Peter Breggin books which abseloutely terrified me.  All of this evidence and still the stuff is being prescribed.  Now we have to learn how to live without them but they cause exactly what they are supposed to heal?!  I hate the anxiety but the depression- that is a whole different animal for me.  It actually hurts. Thanks for the resources, I will be sure to look them over.  Have a good evening and thank you very much, you have no idea how much you all help people.  

 

Okay guys you will not believe this one!  Today I received my scale from Amazon and thought I would weigh up the last four "5 mgs" capsules I had made up.  Before I had started this process I had phoned my compounding pharmacist and asked her how many balls in a mg of brand name effexor xr.  She said approx. 3 per mg.  Soooo, I in my wisdom eyeball 15 wee balls and think this is 5 mgs.  Well my scale indicates I have been taking 15 mgs not 5 since September 4/17!  I guess I know why I've been wiggin out now, and how important a scale can be.  I will change my signature now, just wanted to explain so you didn't think I had a mental and jumped by 10 mgs- I was already there.....  Thank goodness all you wonderful people helped me to decide to keep at the supposed 5 mgs or who knows what I'd be on now.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Quest
4 hours ago, Quest said:

Okay guys you will not believe this one!  Today I received my scale from Amazon and thought I would weigh up the last four "5 mgs" capsules I had made up.  Before I had started this process I had phoned my compounding pharmacist and asked her how many balls in a mg of brand name effexor xr.  She said approx. 3 per mg.  Soooo, I in my wisdom eyeball 15 wee balls and think this is 5 mgs.  Well my scale indicates I have been taking 15 mgs not 5 since September 4/17!  I guess I know why I've been wiggin out now, and how important a scale can be.  I will change my signature now, just wanted to explain so you didn't think I had a mental and jumped by 10 mgs- I was already there.....  Thank goodness all you wonderful people helped me to decide to keep at the supposed 5 mgs or who knows what I'd be on now.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Am I figuring this out right?  I thought I was on 5 mgs. But my scale says .015 when I weigh approx. 15 balls. I am totally lost and confused now.  What do I do?  Continue with the 15 balls?  Lower it?  Even the last few capsules of compounded 5 mgs. effexor from the pharmacist had 16-20 of the balls in it. This and speaking with her and her saying that about 3 balls=1 mg is how I figured on the 15 balls to start a reinstatement was 5 mgs.  Please help me figure out what to do.  I so don't understand all of this.  

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Altostrata

Hello, Quest. You need to calibrate your scale.

 

Also, take a good look at the units of measurement you're using. .015 doesn't really mean much alone. Is the scale set to grams?

 

If you open a full capsule of your Effexor XR and weigh all the capsules, how much do they weigh? What is the milligram value of the capsules you're using? E.g. 37.5mg, 75mg, etc.

 

For the time being, if you're taking 15 beads, I would continue to take 15 beads. It's important to keep everything regular right now. Please keep daily notes on paper of your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages.

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powerback
On ‎08‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 2:04 AM, Quest said:

I have both the Peter Breggin books which abseloutely terrified me.  All of this evidence and still the stuff is being prescribed.  Now we have to learn how to live without them but they cause exactly what they are supposed to heal?!  I hate the anxiety but the depression- that is a whole different animal for me.  It actually hurts. Thanks for the resources, I will be sure to look them over.  Have a good evening and thank you very much, you have no idea how much you all help people.  

 

Hi quest I wouldn't read these books while not being well ,its not worth triggering yourself ,pick them up when your well again .#

PB

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Quest
2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Hello, Quest. You need to calibrate your scale.

 

Also, take a good look at the units of measurement you're using. .015 doesn't really mean much alone. Is the scale set to grams?

 

If you open a full capsule of your Effexor XR and weigh all the capsules, how much do they weigh? What is the milligram value of the capsules you're using? E.g. 37.5mg, 75mg, etc.

 

For the time being, if you're taking 15 beads, I would continue to take 15 beads. It's important to keep everything regular right now. Please keep daily notes on paper of your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages.

Did calibrate the scale, made sure it was on grams setting.  Will weigh a full capsule in daylight.  I am using 37.5 effexor xr.  Capsule . I take at 10:00 every morning.  Thought I was taking 5 mgs.  Thank you for getting back to me Altostrata.  Sure having a lot of anxiety right now.  Kicked in about midnight and still going strong.

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Quest
2 hours ago, powerback said:

Hi quest I wouldn't read these books while not being well ,its not worth triggering yourself ,pick them up when your well again .#

PB

Thanks, have put them away for now. 

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Quest
1 hour ago, Quest said:

Did calibrate the scale, made sure it was on grams setting.  Will weigh a full capsule in daylight.  I am using 37.5 effexor xr.  Capsule . I take at 10:00 every morning.  Thought I was taking 5 mgs.  Thank you for getting back to me Altostrata.  Sure having a lot of anxiety right now.  Kicked in about midnight and still going strong.

will the side effects of coming off remeron 11 days ago stop soon, I'm pretty sure this contributes to the anxiety as well.  Drs. Said I shouldn't have any side effects from quitting such a low dose but I sure did.  just took 1/2 of the 3.75 of zoplicone last night, should I just stick with the full half.  It's not really helping my sleep so I was thinking to minimize might be better.  I maybe got two hours of sleep this past night.  So Altostrata would you suggest I eyeball the 15 balls again or use the ones I weighed?

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Quest
1 hour ago, Quest said:

will the side effects of coming off remeron 11 days ago stop soon, I'm pretty sure this contributes to the anxiety as well.  Drs. Said I shouldn't have any side effects from quitting such a low dose but I sure did.  just took 1/2 of the 3.75 of zoplicone last night, should I just stick with the full half.  It's not really helping my sleep so I was thinking to minimize might be better.  I maybe got two hours of sleep this past night.  So Altostrata would you suggest I eyeball the 15 balls again or use the ones I weighed?

Took measurement of 3 brand name 37.5 mg of effexor xr.  1=.120, 2=.126, 3=.123, all different.  Now do I add all 3 and divide by 3 to get my average 123?  How do I figure out what  my 15 balls equal?  Please, any help, don't understand.

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baroquep

Hi Quest, for now, and until you stabilize, would you be able to stick with counting the balls?  Just take 15 balls and put them into an empty gelatin capsule.  I think you are stressing yourself unnecessarily and only need to worry about stabilizing for now.  Once you have stabilized, which will likely take a few months, we can take a look at measuring for more exact doses once you are ready to start tapering again.  If you want to use the scale going forward, you could find out the weight of 15 balls and use that measurement to create each dose you prepare so that every dose going forward has the same weight.  But for now, you want to get 15 balls into your system each and every day at the same time to build up a steady dose of the Effexor in your system.    

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

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Quest
On 2017-09-03 at 10:37 AM, baroquep said:

Quest, I was able to find this information on determining the dosage.  Please be aware that there are differences between versions, brand name vs. generics, bead size, etc. so you will want to have a good read through the topic to determine the dosage in the number of beads of the type of Effexor you were taking.  It would appear that generally 3 beads = 1mg.  

 

I see that you are also in Canada and wonder whether you would be able to have a compounding pharmacy prepare your doses for you?  is this an option?  I know it won't solve your problem immediately, but down the road it is a good option. 

 

 

How do you determine your amount.  I am having a time of it.  

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Quest
23 minutes ago, baroquep said:

Hi Quest, for now, and until you stabilize, would you be able to stick with counting the balls?  Just take 15 balls and put them into an empty gelatin capsule.  I think you are stressing yourself unnecessarily and only need to worry about stabilizing for now.  Once you have stabilized, which will likely take a few months, we can take a look at measuring for more exact doses once you are ready to start tapering again.  If you want to use the scale going forward, you could find out the weight of 15 balls and use that measurement to create each dose you prepare so that every dose going forward has the same weight.  But for now, you want to get 15 balls into your system each and every day at the same time to build up a steady dose of the Effexor in your system.    

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

So doing it by weight wouldn't be better?  I am very stressed right now, and super sensitive to everything.  I think when I seen the discrepancies in weight I am scared to be changing it up everyday. Totally confused at this point.  

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Quest
1 hour ago, baroquep said:

Hi Quest, for now, and until you stabilize, would you be able to stick with counting the balls?  Just take 15 balls and put them into an empty gelatin capsule.  I think you are stressing yourself unnecessarily and only need to worry about stabilizing for now.  Once you have stabilized, which will likely take a few months, we can take a look at measuring for more exact doses once you are ready to start tapering again.  If you want to use the scale going forward, you could find out the weight of 15 balls and use that measurement to create each dose you prepare so that every dose going forward has the same weight.  But for now, you want to get 15 balls into your system each and every day at the same time to build up a steady dose of the Effexor in your system.    

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

So just counting the balls at this time seems better than weighing them.  Won't fluctuations be worse or the scale gets it wrong too?  I don't see how it's even going to weigh when I get to lower doses.  Maybe I am on too much or not enough.  I have been writing my symptoms down and they have been worst anxiety in morning and through the night, no appetite, 7/10 brain fog, no sleep, depression, very tired.  Force myself to do things. Last evening between6-10 was okay.  All hell broke loose around midnight.  Just plain scared ~

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baroquep

Quest, I have no experience counting beads or weighing balls.  I have asked a more experienced moderator to drop by your thread.

 

Try not to panic, when you feel the panic starting and then rev things up in your mind, the brain shuts down and at that point is completely useless ... just take a breathe and calm yourself down with comforting thoughts, i.e., this is only withdrawal and I am going to get through this today.  I am going to treat myself with tender loving care and not stress myself out anymore than necessary.  Say whatever it is you need to say to calm yourself back down and try and remain calm.  If it means going for a walk to get the confusion out of your head, so be it.

 

A more experienced moderator should be by shortly.  Have a cup of tea in the meantime and just put all of this out of your head until then.

 

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Quest

I have repeatedly tried weighing 15 balls or approx. to get the 15 mg weight and it constantly changes.  I tried to meditate, walk anything but this anxiety will not let up.    I think that 15 balls might be too light.  I bought the Gemini scale recommended on the site.  Just is very touchy and keeps changing between 14.15,17 mgs.  What does one do just estimate?  A couple of my counted previous capsules weighed almost 19 mgs!  how do I make my next capsules?  Those little balls are so varied in size.  How are you reducing Baroquep?  are you on the pill form?  I can not get it here in alberta.  

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primekittycat

Hi Quest, I have been weighing Effexor XR beads with the Gemini scale for over 2 years now. It is very touchy. Be sure to have all windows/air vents closed, no music or sound, I can't even breathe near mine. It also helps to put one of the weights that came with the scale on it permanently, seems to make it a little less touchy. The scale will still go up and down a few g's, even with no air moving in the room. I do my best to weigh, and weigh again until I'm confident that I'm taking the right dose. I probably weigh my one pill like 6 times. I don't want to mess with an inaccurate dose and risk having withdrawal symptoms.

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Quest
15 minutes ago, primekittycat said:

Hi Quest, I have been weighing Effexor XR beads with the Gemini scale for over 2 years now. It is very touchy. Be sure to have all windows/air vents closed, no music or sound, I can't even breathe near mine. It also helps to put one of the weights that came with the scale on it permanently, seems to make it a little less touchy. The scale will still go up and down a few g's, even with no air moving in the room. I do my best to weigh, and weigh again until I'm confident that I'm taking the right dose. I probably weigh my one pill like 6 times. I don't want to mess with an inaccurate dose and risk having withdrawal symptoms.

I know this is what I am so scared of!  I started on 15 mgs thinking it was 5 mgs, 3 balls= 1 mg before I had the scale.  Got scale last night and it's more like one ball = 1 mg dependant on the size.  Do you just go with 1 or 2 mg difference?  I will weigh it once says 15 mg then again it will say 14 or go up to 17... wth.  Even tried weighing a couple of my pre made caps that I counted 15 balls before the scale and they were all over 15 mgs.  I have only reinstated after 3 months off  since the 4th of sept.  And am so indecisive on what to do.  Does one go back on 37.5?  Feels like I'm losing my mind!  Thank you for scale info, I was starting to think mine was broke.  How did you decide to go back on 75 mg dose?  And not a few mgs?

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primekittycat

When I went back on 75mg, I wasn't a part of this forum yet so I had no idea that I could have possibly only went back on a few mgs to feel better.

 

I am an analytics nerd so I have a pretty intense Excel file to help me figure out how many g's to take. First, I weigh all of the beads in the entire 37.5mg dose, which usually comes to between 0.105 to 0.120g... each pill has a different total weight.  I then use my spreadsheet which multiplies that number by .95 to get a 5% cut.. then multiplies that number by .95 to get another 5% cut.. and so on and so on. My spreadsheet has a ton of columns for more and more multiplications. 

 

For example, right now I am on 13.4mg dose, and say a total pill weighs 0.110g.  According to my spreadsheet, I did 20 5% cuts to get to my dose of 13.4mg from 37.5mg. After doing all of those multiplications (automatic in Excel), I will see that I have to take 0.039g of that pill to get my 13.4mg dose.  Because each pill weighs something different, I am taking a different 'weight' of the pill each day, but it should always be a 13.4mg dose (as long as the dose is spread equally between beads, lol, but there is no way I can control that).

 

I know this is very confusing especially with everything you're going through, but you do have to use some math to get to the dose you need via weighing.

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primekittycat

Reading back on your previous posts. Try not to stress about this. Maybe count out 15 beads and weigh them and see what they come out to on the scale. As long as most of your beads are the same size, staying on 15 beads should be steady enough for you to eventually stabilize and then start weighing. I know it's hard but you have to be patient with this and your symptoms. Didn't realize you were stressing so bad about this, and then I wrote a kind of confusing post. Apologize for that.

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Quest
14 minutes ago, primekittycat said:

Reading back on your previous posts. Try not to stress about this. Maybe count out 15 beads and weigh them and see what they come out to on the scale. As long as most of your beads are the same size, staying on 15 beads should be steady enough for you to eventually stabilize and then start weighing. I know it's hard but you have to be patient with this and your symptoms. Didn't realize you were stressing so bad about this, and then I wrote a kind of confusing post. Apologize for that.

No worries, I totally do not get this math thing.  Inept on a computer to boot, don't even know how to get excel spread sheets or how to fill out!

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Quest
1 minute ago, Quest said:

No worries, I totally do not get this math thing.  Inept on a computer to boot, don't even know how to get excel spread sheets or how to fill out!

Sent you a message~

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Quest
On 2017-09-07 at 6:23 PM, mammaP said:

Doctors haven't a clue! I had the same thing from my doctor that 5 beads is ridiculous, he said that 75mg was a 'homeopathic'  dose. They don't know how to do anything other than throw more drugs in the mix. Adding and changing until we are completely wrecked then call it treatment resistant.  

Look at your signature at all the changes since December, on and off so many drugs and differing doses that your poor brain is  struggling to find normality. It will get  back to homeostasis but it will take time to  get everything back in place.  Give it a chance to stabilise. I am sure you will feel a bit better when the antibiotics are finished and your body has adjusted after them. It would be a good idea to take a pro biotic when they have finished to rebalance the gut flora, that can make you feel rotten after antibiotics.

On 2017-09-07 at 6:23 PM, mammaP said:

Doctors haven't a clue! I had the same thing from my doctor that 5 beads is ridiculous, he said that 75mg was a 'homeopathic'  dose. They don't know how to do anything other than throw more drugs in the mix. Adding and changing until we are completely wrecked then call it treatment resistant.  

Look at your signature at all the changes since December, on and off so many drugs and differing doses that your poor brain is  struggling to find normality. It will get  back to homeostasis but it will take time to  get everything back in place.  Give it a chance to stabilise. I am sure you will feel a bit better when the antibiotics are finished and your body has adjusted after them. It would be a good idea to take a pro biotic when they have finished to rebalance the gut flora, that can make you feel rotten after antibiotics. 

Hi mommaz, it has been day 5 today.  Feeling pretty anxious since midnight, won't let up.  Got my scale last night but after talking with primekittycat seems to think To use the Gemini scale at this low a dose will be too risky.  Do I keep hanging in there for another week at this 5 mg dose of 15 balls.  I do not u derstand the whole weighing and counting of balls.  I seen you did it for over two years.  How did you ever figure out the math?  I have been eyeballing 15 balls.  Did you weigh yours. How can I be stable when the weights are always varying.  Any idea what to ask the dr. For when I ask for a prescription?  Or just do it myself?  Do you think I can become stable on 15 balls?  You always seem level headed compared to my crazy.  Just need some advice.

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Quest
15 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Hello, Quest. You need to calibrate your scale.

 

Also, take a good look at the units of measurement you're using. .015 doesn't really mean much alone. Is the scale set to grams?

 

If you open a full capsule of your Effexor XR and weigh all the capsules, how much do they weigh? What is the milligram value of the capsules you're using? E.g. 37.5mg, 75mg, etc.

 

For the time being, if you're taking 15 beads, I would continue to take 15 beads. It's important to keep everything regular right now. Please keep daily notes on paper of your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages.

By eyeballing 15 balls wreck my chances of stability as well?  I must be getting the weights wrong.  This scale isn't very precise either.  If I get a compounded prescription do I ask my dr. For 5 mgs?  after talking with primekittycat, seems to think with my average weight of 123 of three capsules that 15 balls = approx. 5 mgs.  I certainly don't know, but my pharmacist said the same thing.  She's just not back and running until the 25 th of this month. It is day 5 of the reinstated effexor, do you think I should hang in one more week and see if it settles down this anxiety? I am lost on whether to come down or go up.  I think too that month of remeron is wreaking havoc with my system too.  Any advice, greatly appreciated, thanks~

 

 

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mammaP

Have you counted the balls yet?  I did it wrong for my taper and it took a year. After I quit I went into withdrawal and reinstated 5 BEADS.   You really need to count those beads to work out how much is in 15 of them.  Don't rely on what the pharmacist tells you or what the 'average' is.   Different makes have different beads.  If you have been taking 15 beads then  carry on with that and forget weighing. You must COUNT those 15 beads and not eyeball them.  If YOU TAKE THEM ALL THE SAME SIZE YOU WILL NEED TO OPEN A NEW CAPSULE EVERY DAY AND TAKE 15 OF THE LARGEST ONES. tHEN PUT THE CAPSULE IN A SEPARATE CONTAINER FOR LATER.   If you use the same capsule  again the size of the balls will get smaller and will not be consistent.

You also need to stick with the same zopiclone dose, going up and down will not stabilise you and cutting by half now is throwing you into withdrawal. You have been taking them for many years on and off so already dependent on them.  

15 beads, 3.75 zopiclone,  every single day will stabilise you. When you are stable we can look at tapering.   Forget all the  weighing and figures. IT doesn't matter right now.  Same doses every day. 

Sorry for the capitals, not shouting I didn't realise caps were on it's very early here! 

Edited by mammaP

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Quest
7 hours ago, mammaP said:

Have you counted the balls yet?  I did it wrong for my taper and it took a year. After I quit I went into withdrawal and reinstated 5 BEADS.   You really need to count those beads to work out how much is in 15 of them.  Don't rely on what the pharmacist tells you or what the 'average' is.   Different makes have different beads.  If you have been taking 15 beads then  carry on with that and forget weighing. You must COUNT those 15 beads and not eyeball them.  If YOU TAKE THEM ALL THE SAME SIZE YOU WILL NEED TO OPEN A NEW CAPSULE EVERY DAY AND TAKE 15 OF THE LARGEST ONES. tHEN PUT THE CAPSULE IN A SEPARATE CONTAINER FOR LATER.   If you use the same capsule  again the size of the balls will get smaller and will not be consistent.

You also need to stick with the same zopiclone dose, going up and down will not stabilise you and cutting by half now is throwing you into withdrawal. You have been taking them for many years on and off so already dependent on them.  

15 beads, 3.75 zopiclone,  every single day will stabilise you. When you are stable we can look at tapering.   Forget all the  weighing and figures. IT doesn't matter right now.  Same doses every day. 

Sorry for the capitals, not shouting I didn't realise caps were on it's very early here! 

Counted balls in 4 capsules.  1-124,  2-135,  3-140,  4-138.  Took out 15 of the biggest out of each to take, and stored the remainder of beads in their capsules.  All 4 capsules were different, how do you figure out what 15 balls is?  I have been counting out the 15 beads, when I say eyeball that was for the size.  Was trying to make them as equal as I could but they wouldn't have been because I did not open a new capsule every time.  I apologize for coming off like this, I truly am not myself these days.  Seems like the switch  on my anxiety flipped and doesnt know how to stop.  Was trying to stop the Zoplicone, but I do understand not throwing my body extra stress by withdrawl from this.  Its hard to take something when you know its not really doing anything for you except keeping you from withdrawls.  I read your story Mammap and I am so in awe of your journey, you are very strong and even after all the grief you've had to endure you still find time to help others.  You have no idea how much it means to me that you are taking the time to help guide me.  I am clueless in all this.  Should i start to notice any improvement soon?  Do you think that the remeron i was on for a month really messed up my chances for reinstatement with effexor?  I have been trying to listen to sleep meditations to try and stop my mind, trying qui gong, walking, forcing myself to eat, chamomile tea In evenings, and still no sleep.  Laying there wouldn't be half bad if the anxiety would give me a break!  How do you manage your anxious in the evenings?  Thank you for writing back, you were my lifeline at 2:00am this morning.  I am trying and for the record i wish i hadn't listened to the pharmacist and tried to start on the 5 balls.  I hope your day is going well for you and please feel free to message me if you ever need an ear.  I am open to any of your wisdom~

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bubble

Sometimes improvement is that things are not getting any worse. Especially in the early days of reinstatement.

 

As MammaP emphasised you don't really take into account the sleeping drug you have been using for 11 years as a major contributor to the present situation.

 

It's great you are applying all these coping tools. Even if they don't produce immediate results they are helping with restoring your sleep. It's just that there are no quick fixes. We need all the patience we can get and then some and with time things do get better.

 

Just focus on one day at a time and patiently continue using your coping tools. This will get better.

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Quest
47 minutes ago, bubble said:

Sometimes improvement is that things are not getting any worse. Especially in the early days of reinstatement.

 

As MammaP emphasised you don't really take into account the sleeping drug you have been using for 11 years as a major contributor to the present situation.

 

It's great you are applying all these coping tools. Even if they don't produce immediate results they are helping with restoring your sleep. It's just that there are no quick fixes. We need all the patience we can get and then some and with time things do get better.

 

Just focus on one day at a time and patiently continue using your coping tools. This will get better.

I thank you for your kindness.  I guess my issue with the Zoplicone is that how will my sleep ever  heal with still being on it.  I was trying to stop so my sleeping would start to get better.  I was actually off of it from May- August this year.  Maybe it was all just too much coming off z and effexor again.  I also didnt want the z contributing to the depression.  Just paranoid if reinstatement will work, such a gamble but after being put on remeron for the month of Aug. I really dont want to chance another ad at this point either~ 

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