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bubble
19 hours ago, bubble said:

I haven't been taking xanax for panic attacks, sleep, anxiety or anything for years, a decade and more.

 

The only reason I'm taking it is to prevent withdrawal which occurs when I reduce even a tiny bit of it.

Baroquep, I did my best to try and explain to Quest why she is stuck with zoplicone although it doesn't help with the sleeping any more.

 

I did my best to explain other things too. Several times. So I'm taking a break now.

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Littlegrandma

Quest 

i hope you got some sleep last night. it all seems so much more than we can handle, but we have no choice. I sound calmer than I really am, but I'm trying to hold on , waiting for better days. I cry pretty often. I'm not too good at relaxation techniques,yet, but I try to distract myself with phone games or reading things I can't yet comprehend. 

I have a tough time leaving the house but when one of my kids or husband drag me out, I do feel better. So, do try to find distractions for the anxiety. 

I am watching my 4 and 1 yr old grandkids today. That is going to be my true test. My husband has about used up his vacation days to take over my babysitting duties. So, I'm taking a step back into my life. If I don't, I will become completely reclusive and never recover. 

I hope you had a better night and have a better today. Lg

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Quest
32 minutes ago, Littlegrandma said:

Quest 

i hope you got some sleep last night. it all seems so much more than we can handle, but we have no choice. I sound calmer than I really am, but I'm trying to hold on , waiting for better days. I cry pretty often. I'm not too good at relaxation techniques,yet, but I try to distract myself with phone games or reading things I can't yet comprehend. 

I have a tough time leaving the house but when one of my kids or husband drag me out, I do feel better. So, do try to find distractions for the anxiety. 

I am watching my 4 and 1 yr old grandkids today. That is going to be my true test. My husband has about used up his vacation days to take over my babysitting duties. So, I'm taking a step back into my life. If I don't, I will become completely reclusive and never recover. 

I hope you had a better night and have a better today. Lg

Thank you, I hope you have a good day with your grandkids too.  I too have troubles doing the simplest things.  I appreciate your time and wish better days for you as well~

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Littlegrandma

did you get any sleep last night?

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Quest
1 hour ago, Littlegrandma said:

did you get any sleep last night?

No, and I feel very desperate.  How's your sleep?

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Littlegrandma

I'm so sorry Quest. 

Im still getting a few good hours but I wake at 4 with the trembling anxiety. The anxiety and high heart rate makes me so tired. It's like doing cardio all day. I would think my body would just crash for 8 or 10 hrs, but that hasn't happened in years. 

Im so hoping you will find the sleep your body needs to heal. 

Sorry, lg

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Quest
6 hours ago, Littlegrandma said:

I'm so sorry Quest. 

Im still getting a few good hours but I wake at 4 with the trembling anxiety. The anxiety and high heart rate makes me so tired. It's like doing cardio all day. I would think my body would just crash for 8 or 10 hrs, but that hasn't happened in years. 

Im so hoping you will find the sleep your body needs to heal. 

Sorry, lg

I wish you healing too~ sounds about where I'm at.  What does one do with the anxiety!  I am glad you still get a few hours.  Way better than none.

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Quest
On 2017-09-11 at 7:09 AM, Quest said:

Thanks for your kind words, I wish you a good day as well.  Patience is a hard thing when one is unwell.  I am glad your trembling has stopped and please keep in touch.  Thanks for listening~

Ok guys I have had a day.  I literally spent all day trying to get out of my circular thinking.  Supposed to go to a psych appt. tomorrow and really am scared to go, but can't bring myself to cancel it.  What is the matter with me?  What's she gonna do but prescribe more drugs- that's her job. I have to believe I can heal from this.  Watched Claire Weeks and tried reading some of it, but my mind just isn't with it.  Got blood work back today and iron levels are 206 which is high.  Can't eat or sleep. How do I pull my head out of this sand?  How to turn depression into positivity?  It has been 10 days now on this reinstated effexor, trying to feel positive, when does one know if it's working?  Talk about overly sensitized system!  I keep reading over the advice given and it is recommended 3 months, how do you feel like this for that long, in your experience is there any breaks in this time?  Any thoughts please~

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Quest
1 minute ago, Quest said:

Ok guys I have had a day.  I literally spent all day trying to get out of my circular thinking.  Supposed to go to a psych appt. tomorrow and really am scared to go, but can't bring myself to cancel it.  What is the matter with me?  What's she gonna do but prescribe more drugs- that's her job. I have to believe I can heal from this.  Watched Claire Weeks and tried reading some of it, but my mind just isn't with it.  Got blood work back today and iron levels are 206 which is high.  Can't eat or sleep. How do I pull my head out of this sand?  How to turn depression into positivity?  It has been 10 days now on this reinstated effexor, trying to feel positive, when does one know if it's working?  Talk about overly sensitized system!  I keep reading over the advice given and it is recommended 3 months, how do you feel like this for that long, in your experience is there any breaks in this time?  Any thoughts please~

Do you think I feel this terrible from the remeron as well still?  

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ChessieCat
1 hour ago, Quest said:

What's she gonna do but prescribe more drugs- that's her job.

 

If you don't feel up to saying no you can always accept the script but not get it filled.  It's your body and you have the choice what you put into it.

 

1 hour ago, Quest said:

how do you feel like this for that long

 

Worrying about how long it will take is very stressful and isn't going to help you get through it.  You get through 1 day at a time and there are times when you have to get through 1 hour or 1 minute at a time.  At times like this it can be hard to try and think positively.  You need to find ways distract yourself and keep yourself calm and not giving into the fear.  Stress slows healing because the brain diverts attention away from healing to deal with the stress.  Quite often it's the simple things that can help, but it is up to you to find things that help and to use them as needed.

 

1 hour ago, Quest said:

Do you think I feel this terrible from the remeron as well still?  

 

Nobody can say what is causing this.  It may be a combination of things.  However, even if you knew the answer to this question it isn't going to change the symptoms and you still need to do what is needed to get through it as discussed in my previous paragraph.

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peng

Hang in there, Quest:

I note from my diary, that, years ago, on a couple of reinstatements, I improved a bunch of days shortly after 10 days after reinstatement.

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baroquep

Hi Quest, how are things?  have you been keeping a daily symptom pattern?  know that it can be hard to see if there has been any progress since reinstatement and found that using my thread as a diary/journal of sorts helped me to keep track of things as the days progressed.  Sometimes the changes are so subtle they are easy to miss.  Hope you are starting to feel a bit more balanced and the anxiety is starting to calm down a bit.  When you get a chance, let us know how you are doing.

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Quest
On 2017-01-17 at 11:18 PM, JanCarol said:

I have a friend who got put on Paxil, generic. (face palm - I thought this drug was off the favored list)

 

It was claimed that the reason it was paroxetine, was that the other drugs interfered with her Voltaren (diclofenac) for pain (????)

 

Anyhow, the doctor (Australian) is conscientious enough that she will start tapering after 6 months of use.

 

I wanted to give my friend (and her doctors) the very basics of information in a form that she can use - and that will not take up too much of the doc's time.  So I made up a single page as to "why we taper 10%"  (with the exception that the first cut, under a doctor's care, can be 25%, like Dr. Brogan does)

 

It's probably the most concise thing I've ever written!

 

* * *

Tapering Primer.

Low doses of drugs affect a higher percentage of receptors than high doses of drugs.

In a curve, like this:

Plasma%20Concentration%20Fluoxetine_zpsj

 

https://ils.unc.edu/bmh/neoref/this.dir.unneeded/schizophrenia/review/tmp/352.pdf

 

This drug is similar in strength to your drug.  (Yours, paroxetine, is slightly stronger)

 

So you see, you get a lot of change from 0-10 mg of the drug.  (That goes for going on, and more importantly, coming off)

 

If you were start at 60 mg, the first 40 mg will taper easily.  Then, when you hit around 20 mg, there’s an “Ut-oh” point where the Concentration of the drug on the Receptors drops off rapidly.

 

So sometimes it’s okay (under doctors’ care) to cut 25% the first cut for the first month.  We wait a month for symptoms to settle down before deciding how to continue the taper.

 

But after the first big cut, it is important to slow down, if you wish to minimize symptoms.  Harm reduction (fewest symptoms) practice recommends a 10% of previous dose taper per month, to match these curves.  And we hold, or stop tapering, any time the symptoms flare up.  The goal is a symptom free taper.

 

From information at:  http://www.survivingantidepressants.org

 

Please feel free to show this to your doctor.

Jan, I was hoping you could give me an opinion.  If you read through my signature, I am at a standstill.  I reinstated effexor xr at 15 balls.  I was first put on this medication in 2006 for extreme anxiety-diagnosed with gad.  They also put me on 3.75. Of zoplicone which I basically have taken since then as well other than twice when I came off of it.  I am trying each day to muddle through but the overwhelming anxiety and no sleep is making me more and more depressed.  They have given me 25 mg of seroquel or small dose of trazadone for sleep to try.  I am scared and desperate.  And the dr. Also is pressuring me to go on the 37.5 as my depression is getting worse, terrible ruminating, thoughts. You have accomplished so much, how did you survive on no sleep or were you able to sleep?  How can I remain confident that such a small dose can handle this depression, I have had excellent advice thus far but I am wearing down with the sleep.  Lay there in bed or I get up but the anxiety and blackness follow.  It has been 12 whole days and my mind goes to in a loop of I'm not doing enough to help myself.  Forcing myself to eat and walk, but I find my muscles are atrophying.  There is not one dr. I have been to that gets what I'm trying to do and they let me know it.  If I took the report you wrote, not one would look at it.   I guess I'm just reaching out.  Trying to know if I'm on the right track.  I was suggested to take my 15 balls for 3 months, where did all my strength go?  I am reduced to this person I no longer recognize.  Any words of encouragement or advice would be heartfelt.  

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Quest
On 2017-09-13 at 7:45 PM, ChessieCat said:

 

If you don't feel up to saying no you can always accept the script but not get it filled.  It's your body and you have the choice what you put into it.

 

 

Worrying about how long it will take is very stressful and isn't going to help you get through it.  You get through 1 day at a time and there are times when you have to get through 1 hour or 1 minute at a time.  At times like this it can be hard to try and think positively.  You need to find ways distract yourself and keep yourself calm and not giving into the fear.  Stress slows healing because the brain diverts attention away from healing to deal with the stress.  Quite often it's the simple things that can help, but it is up to you to find things that help and to use them as needed.

 

 

Nobody can say what is causing this.  It may be a combination of things.  However, even if you knew the answer to this question it isn't going to change the symptoms and you still need to do what is needed to get through it as discussed in my previous paragraph.

I am having such a difficult time with barely an hr. of sleep since July.  Feels like I'm slowly disentergrating into a black hole.  I am definitely at the one minute at a time today.  

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Quest
6 hours ago, baroquep said:

Hi Quest, how are things?  have you been keeping a daily symptom pattern?  know that it can be hard to see if there has been any progress since reinstatement and found that using my thread as a diary/journal of sorts helped me to keep track of things as the days progressed.  Sometimes the changes are so subtle they are easy to miss.  Hope you are starting to feel a bit more balanced and the anxiety is starting to calm down a bit.  When you get a chance, let us know how you are doing.

Today is a bad one.  Anxiety is very bad and my head is completely fogged in.  Dr. Gave me prescriptions for either trazadone or seroquel for sleep.  So desperate right now for sleep I am actually considering this....  I have been keeping a diary.  Maybe have had two evenings, not too bad but the depression is outrageous.  Never have had such dark thoughts like this.  I just want this to give me a break so badly, just stop.  Beyond tired and hopeless right now.  I keep re reading all of your advice and it sounds really good until you try to match it up with how you feel.  The zoplicone maybe gets me an hr. of sleep and I know I have to take it to stave wd. But I think it's contributing to this depression too. I worry that my 15 balls are so different in dose each day and wonder if I should change amount or drug like the Drs. Keep telling me to do.  Literally feel frozen in place.  How do I climb out of this hole ?  I even made an appt. for brain spotting?  I do not know if this will be too much or too soon, for Tuesday.  I had one neurofeedback and my anxiety skyrocketed. I am reaching for this balance, just having a real hard time shutting my brain down right now.  Even tried to meditate and I can't sit still, constantly moving even though I'm exhausted.  Forcing myself to eat, going outdoors, hang with my parrots and dogs and kid when he's home from school.  I don't even want to talk on the phone right now, too much.  Thanks for letting me rant, I hope you are well~I apologize for the negativity, this is so not me, don't even know what I am on about anymore, nothing I recognize.  

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Quest
On 2017-09-14 at 4:51 AM, peng said:

Hang in there, Quest:

I note from my diary, that, years ago, on a couple of reinstatements, I improved a bunch of days shortly after 10 days after reinstatement.

Waiting with open arms for even a small window!  Thanks for the sprig of hope🍀

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ChessieCat
2 hours ago, Quest said:

I worry that my 15 balls are so different in dose each day and wonder if I should change amount or drug like the Drs. Keep telling me to do.

 

Just reminding you of the advice you were given, with highlight:

 

On 12/09/2017 at 9:32 AM, baroquep said:

Your daily schedule until you stabilize

15 large balls from Effexor at 10:00 am (open up a new capsule every morning and take out 15 large beads) 

3.75mg of Zoplicone at night

 

Please do not alter the number of Effexor balls or split your zoplicone dose.  If you are ever going to stabilize, it is in your best interest to adhere to this schedule.

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baroquep

HI there, sorry to hear that things are still so rough, know how hard it can be.  I really feel for you Quest, I have a fairly good idea of what you are going through but imagine it must be 10 times worse as I only had to deal with one change.  I know it is hard, but the only thing you can do right now is hold and try and find something that will help calm your mind.  If you change your sleeping pill prescription or antidepressant at this time, I can guarantee you this will just make things worse for you.

If I was in your situation, my first concern would be stabilizing my central nervous system and under no circumstances would I make any changes to my medication.  Your CNS needs a break from all the changes you've made over the last couple of years.  Every time you've made a change, your central nervous system has had to try and recalibrate to accommodate the change and it just hasn't had that opportunity.  If you add or change drugs at this point, you will likely make the anxiety even worse which will in turn disrupt your sleep even further.   Your sleeping will begin to regulate as your central nervous system stabilizes.  When the central nervous system has been destabilized it can be set off by something as inocuous as a vitamin never mind another drug.

The only thing I can suggest, is to stop focusing on sleep.  I know that must sound like an inane suggestion but it sounds like you are putting too much pressure on yourself to get some sleep.  I know we need sleep, and it crucial to healing but the more pressure you place on yourself to get some sleep, the more stress you are putting yourself under and it a vicious cycle.  Maybe start by saying to yourself that you will be happy if you get 1/2 hour sleep.  Close your eyes and think about happy times that you spent with your son or some other comforting thoughts that elicit peaceful memories and calm.  Even if it means counting fluffy purple sheep with happy faces, anything to put your focus on something else but getting some sleep. 

Sometimes I would just lay there in bed and close my eyes even though I knew that sleep wasn't going to come. Some nights I'd be successful on staying quiet and other times I'd feel like I couldn't sit still, so I'd open up my computer and read about what other people in withdrawal did to help with sleep or watch at show or read when my mind wouldn't rest at all. Eventually I just came to realize that this was my new normal, and all I could do was try and make the best of it.  

 

One thing I did learn, thankfully very early on after reading story after story on this site, was that the people who seemed to be having the easiest time were the people that did long holds and made few if any changes.  When I saw my doctor back in March and they suggested I switch to Prozac, it certainly sounded tempting, but I knew better.  I'd already read all the stories about switching to Prozac and knew that it all the cases I'd read about, it didn't work, and just made things worse.  How could so many other people who actually had personal experience with these drugs be wrong?   So if I can try and guide you in any direction, it would be to hold where you are, keep a diary so that you can see the slow progression toward stabilization by staying the course and allowing your brain to rest and stabilize on the Effexor and Zoplicone.  Your CNS needs a very very long rest from all the changes so it can carve out a pathway to healing.  If it means cultivating blind faith that eventually things will get better please grab onto that hope.  Treat yourself with the utmost of compassion, and practice extreme self-care, give yourself a hug through the anxiety and just try and hold on.     

 

Mindfulness and Acceptance

Acceptance

Keep it Simple, Keep it Slow, Keep it Stable

 

Edited by baroquep
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Quest

I will try, how can I climb out of this depression, never been so relentless.  Thank you for your time, meaningful words and support.  It is appreciated, I am hearing you, just get very desperate for some relief.  I, like everyone else just wants there life back.  I know my body need viatimins but have a hard time even taking these anymore. i will hope and pray for any improvement this week.  

 

Edited by ChessieCat
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baroquep

As you stabilize, the depression will slowly lift.  I had to discontinue all vitamins except Omega 3 and Magnesium back in March and I found it made a big difference.  The fewer things your CNS has to metabolize, the better.  I've been where you are today, and I know it's hard, but I'm here to tell you that I lived through it and things will eventually get better for you as well.     Hang in there, things do get better.  

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Quest

I guess I just don't know if the effexor and zoplicone are helping or making me sicker at this point.  Used to always trust myself on judgement and now trying to figure out if it is helping.  Am keeping a journal but most of it is negative results thus far.  Thankyou for your positivity.  I haven't had stability since Sept. 2016.  Was my one really good 4 weeks.  i am glad you are doing so well, I so want to be there, just running out of steam.

 

Edited by ChessieCat
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bubble

I know that 12 days seems like a very long especially since a part of this state is that our brain feels like it will last forever. But it won't. Relief is probably just round the corner.

 

Don't worry about what you have been reduced  to in the same wave way you wouldn't worry about your impaired mobility if you had broken your leg. It's temporary. Your brain is healing at it will pass. All it needs to heal are stability and time. You are giving it both now so it is busy fixing itself.

 

Give yourself another week before you try and desperate measures. That way you will know there is something you might want to try and it might not be necessary.

 

When I was trying to stabilise after my reinstatement I was initially just grateful that I stopped getting worse and that my terrible 'stabilised'. 12 days is not really that long.You say you have felt terrible since September last year but there were so many changes (read injuries) that your brain was subjected to. No wonder it is now taking some time to fix itself. But it has a remarkable ability to heal. 

 

Like baroquep I would read stories of people who got better to persuade my brain that we would also get better. And so it was. You won't be an exception. I wouldn't bother with what doctors say...

 

Edited by ChessieCat
correct a typo

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Quest

Thank you Bubble, your post came up after just reading what dr. Shipko wrote about depression never going away after stopping long term use of antidepressants and restarting them.  What a defeating article.  There has to be hope.  I re read success stories after that. I almost wish I hadn't come across it.  Makes me even more indecisive.  How do you put things into perspective when you come across information like this?  Faith is so hard, but I just have to keep going.  I'm going to walk now to clear off my head.  I appreciate your time and advice.  

 

Edited by ChessieCat
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Quest

Tried so hard last night to simply lay and relax.  Listened to sleep hypnosis even.  Every time I closed my eyes the anxiety would kickstart my heart.  I had terrible anxiety all day yesterday and all night.  Maybe closed my eyes for half an hour.  Breathing through a panic attack.  I don't know how much longer I can handle this.  I am so scared right now.  

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Gridley

Light and prayers to you, Quest.  You will get better.

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Littlegrandma

I'm sorry Quest. 

I just wanted you to know I'm thinking about you. 

I'm in the same boat right now. The anxiety is killing me. I'm at least getting some sleep but that's because I've added Ativan and am stressing about having to taper off of that also. 

I understand your fear. I feel it every moment. I wonder if life will ever be "normal" again. 

I wish I had some advice for you. Sadly, I don't. But try to hang in there. That's all we can do. 

Hugs, lg

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Quest
1 hour ago, Gridley said:

Light and prayers to you, Quest.  You will get better.

Thank you~

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Quest
1 hour ago, Littlegrandma said:

I'm sorry Quest. 

I just wanted you to know I'm thinking about you. 

I'm in the same boat right now. The anxiety is killing me. I'm at least getting some sleep but that's because I've added Ativan and am stressing about having to taper off of that also. 

I understand your fear. I feel it every moment. I wonder if life will ever be "normal" again. 

I wish I had some advice for you. Sadly, I don't. But try to hang in there. That's all we can do. 

Hugs, lg

I'm thinking about you too my sweet lg.  You hang in there too.  I don't know what to do anymore.  Trying to figure out whether to try seroquel or trazadone for sleep.  I take the zoplicone and 1/2 later full blown anxiety.  Effexor even at 15 balls side effects-  I'm trying to hang in there, you do as well.  Sending hugs back ~Quest

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Littlegrandma

Don't mess with the Z right now. I learned the hard way. I took a sliver off my lunesta last night.....

big mistake! Increased anxiety, didn't think that was possible, and nausea and headache. 

I don't know anything about the seroquel or trazadone but I know how it is to be desperate for sleep. But honestly, I wish I would have waited it out and not started the Ativan. It's easy to say now, since I am getting a few hours of sleep, but it makes me foggier and the fear of tapering it at sometime is always on my mind. 

Seems there's no cut and dry answer. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.  And I've made huge mistakes at every turn since the beginning of my taper. 

Wish I would have had the expertise of this forum from day one. I'd probably be feeling decent right now with a couple less drugs in my system. 

I pray tonight is the night you start to sleep!!😴  Hugs, lg

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Littlegrandma

 

MOD NOTE:  Please see following post.

 

PS   Marko posted that he got sleep relief from Benadryl and especially hydroxazine. Also helped a lot with anxiety. That may be worth looking into before you jump into the big drugs. Lg

 

Edited by ChessieCat
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ChessieCat
29 minutes ago, Littlegrandma said:

PS   Marko posted that he got sleep relief from Benadryl and especially hydroxazine. Also helped a lot with anxiety. That may be worth looking into before you jump into the big drugs. Lg

 

Quest is trying to stabilise.  Adding anything into the mix at this time is risky.  If she has a bad reaction to something new she will not know what is causing it.

 

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Littlegrandma
2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Quest is trying to stabilise.  Adding anything into the mix at this time is risky.  If she has a bad reaction to something new she will not know what is causing it.

 

 

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Littlegrandma

Sorry about that. That's why I said look into it. I just so want relief for her. And I should know since I keep messing up with my own stabilization.     Lg

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Quest
19 minutes ago, Littlegrandma said:

Sorry about that. That's why I said look into it. I just so want relief for her. And I should know since I keep messing up with my own stabilization.     Lg

Lg, thanks for your caring.  It is so extremely hard to know what to do I agree.  I have not only the anxiety but major depressive disorder right now.  I need to sleep, my concern is that if I try the drugs I get worse but if I don't I get worse.  The zoplicone does nothing for me xcept create huge daytime anxiety and I'm not sure if the effexor is making me worse or better as I have had maybe 2-3 hours total over the last15 days.  I have established no pattern yet.  My craving for sleep is huge, non existent.  I hope you had a half decent day today....

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Quest
2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Quest is trying to stabilise.  Adding anything into the mix at this time is risky.  If she has a bad reaction to something new she will not know what is causing it.

 

ChessieCat I am trying very hard right now not to cave.  My brain feels stuck, I physically feel pain.  Never have had a depression so severe in my life.  I really don't know what the answers are right now, I am so depleted and tired.  Thank you for feed back.  My whole being is on elastic band stretched tight mode and seems to be getting worse instead of better.  

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Quest
11 hours ago, Gridley said:

Light and prayers to you, Quest.  You will get better.

To you as well my friend ~

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