DMV64: reinstate Saphris?

[DMV64]

Thank you. Brain fog. 

[wantrelief]

No problem, DMV.  I am sorry your therapist made you feel worse.  Does s/he understand the role of medications and how they are impacting your mood?  If not, it might be worth trying to find someone who is more understanding about withdrawal and provide you with the support you need during this awfully challenging time.  In the meantime, you can always find support here!  

[powerback]

20 hours ago, DMV64 said:

Yes. Yes.  Very helpful. Thank you. It’s like an ambush. 

This is very true DMV64 ,my whole day is consumed by fighting all my horrible thoughts ,there getting stronger and stronger .

Be very careful D in therapy when your very fragile ,we can take on other peoples worries about us and because they are in a position of "authority" we absorb this worry and it can freak us out .do loads of self compassion D and I hope your well soon .

Take care DM .

 

[DMV64]

I wonder if it is normal during all of this to think so much about dying? My therapist is worried about me. I don't know what to think.

[JanCarol]

 

Hey D - 

 

How are the allergy shots going?

 

I'm sorry you are having a rough go right now.

 

I'm here to encourage you and say that:  raking up old trauma and extreme emotions is part of withdrawal.

 

Thoughts & feelings can't hurt you (but what you do - action - with the thoughts is the dangerous part).

 

First:  Neuro-emotion

 

The feelings are real, the events are real, but it's like looking at them under an electron microscope and the feelings fill the whole room with a microscopic thing.  Feelings seem bigger, thoughts seem stickier.  It's all out of proportion, and Normal in withdrawal.

 

Next, sweeping up the trauma.

In withdrawal feelings come back.  

 

Your brain is likely to send you stuff - images, memories -  to make sure they come back.  For some perverse reason, the negative emotions come back first.  It's really hard!  On the one hand, it is an opportunity to re-visit the traumas that made you who you are today - but it's only beneficial if you can cradle the child you were with love and forgiveness.  Forgive yourself for being in the wrong place, with the wrong person; forgive yourself for "allowing" these horrible things to happen.  Recognise that you didn't really "allow" it to happen, you were powerless (a child),  or ignorant, trusting, or even random - and someone took advantage of you.

 

It's okay to get angry at trauma.  Scream at the bastids!  Punch & kick the heavy-bag (that's what I do a lot), thrash around on the floor - but then - let it go.  Get it out of your body, then let it go.  Forgive yourself.  (note that I say nothing about forgiving the perp.  I haven't advanced that far into saintliness yet!)  Start with forgiving yourself.  

 

But it's true- as the withdrawals come, the trauma sweeps through, and you have the opportunity to clean up some of your jagged edges, mend the holes, and spend some loving time with yourself.  it's normal!

 

There's a good suggestion for dealing with these memories, here:  Flashbacks and Withdrawal Symptoms

and here:  Trauma, Fixation and Reactivity (GiaK)

I hope you see the sun today!

[DMV64]

1 hour ago, JanCarol said:

allergy shots

Hello! I am due to start tomorrow actually. I will let you know. I just dictated this long response into my phone and it choked and deleted the whole things.

Yes, the memories are hard. I keep hoping it will get easier, but I know this is not really linear. Good news is yesterday I had my first WHOLE good day. It was amazing. Today back to ups and downs, but made a little survival kit at the suggestion of my therapist. It has reasons for living in it, things that lift me up, give hope, provide support. Right now it is only words but I want to make it more tangible with objects and pictures and such. When I feel up to it.

I think yesterday was so good because I taught an hour an a half workshop on backbending. Backbending is really good for the upward current of prana, life force. Backbends make people happy.

Going to check out your links. Also I have first meeting in group therapy today for depression and anxiety.

xo

-D

[DMV64]

1 hour ago, JanCarol said:

Neuro-emotion

Yes. yes. Neuro fear, less than, fear of failure, embarrassment. Neuro shame. I am trying to not allow myself to wallow but to be gentle.

[DMV64]

On 4/13/2018 at 2:20 PM, powerback said:

we absorb this worry

Oh my gosh! YES! I feel WORSE after therapy at least half of the time. Thank you for pointing this out. I cannot afford to feel worse.

[TheWayBack]

Hi DMV

 

How are you doing these days?

 

Sending good wishes!

[DMV64]

3 hours ago, TheWayBack said:

How are you doing these days?

Oh WayBack. I wish I could say I was doing well, but I am struggling and feeling like when when when is it going to get better? It has been over 2 months since my crash. I am hoping soon. Some days I feel like dying and that is scary. I have a few good days. Added on is the fact that my yoga studio is on the brink of closing. Part of it is I just cannot function at the level I need to keep going but part of it is we just have a high rent and it is more expenses than revenue. We had hoped we would make it through (opened in July) but we are running out of cash infusion money.

So I have a lot of anxious and depressed days. I am doing a lot of things to try to help myself. Thank you for checking in on me. <3

[AuntieBea]

On 4/12/2018 at 4:36 PM, DMV64 said:

have been noticing at this stage of things I am being thrown back to visit trauma. I don't know what is happening...I will just be doing something or nothing and have a memory, maybe for the first time, or some already known. Past sexual trauma, memories of feeling unsafe around my mother, being woken up when falling asleep in the carseat as a child by her yelling. Just all kinds of stuff. Old grief over my brother's death. It's like someone has opened up my brain to all the dark places. Would love other's thoughts...experiences...

 

Hello DMV—Just reading through your thread, don’t know how I got there, but sometimes I find that I am guided in surprising ways. I so understand what you mean about visiting past trauma...just all of a sudden there it is, the dark places. Some event in the present seems to trigger a painful remembrance of the past. You’re not alone with that. In fact, being receptive to those experiences and actually welcoming them is a huge part of my recovery. But it takes a lot of courage to stay present with that pain, allow it to be there, and listen to the story it’s trying to tell me about my life, about my past.

 

The anger, the rage, the shame I feel at times is trying to tell me something. So I try not to suppress it, but work with it, process it, so that ultimately I can release it. I’ve come to recognize that it’s that very pain, buried deep within under layers of denial and fear, that’s at the bottom of the so called “depression” which I have lived with all my life. My therapist always called it shame spirals rather than depression which is interesting to me. I do a lot of crying. There’s a certain kind of crying that seems in itself to be the means for releasing this anguish. Sometimes I actually hear the child voice, the child who was me, crying the tears that I could not do then because it was not safe. But that pain was never forgotten. It’s stored deep within my body.

 

I started medication for “depression” many years ago, and now needless to say, I am in the frightening process of getting off it. I’ve begun to think that part of the reason these feelings are beginning to surface now the way they are, and sometimes they are just relentless, is because the point of the medication in the first place was to suppress all that because I couldn’t handle it. The medication was doing it job. I had no tools for working with the pain and trauma. But I do now, and I want to truly heal from deep down inside, I want to get down to the bottom of it and that’s why I can say I welcome the experience of it now when it does bubble up to the surface. It’s asking to be healed. At least that’s how I work with it. I am also motivated in this direction because I figure even when I do get off these drugs, if I have not dealt with the underlying problems that got me into this pickle in the first place I am likely to be unstable in my recovery. Sort of like the alcoholic who stops drinking only to discover himself still acting like an alcoholic—sort of.

 

Anyway, just wanted to pass along my thoughts to you in case they might be meaningful in some way!

 

 

[DMV64]

51 minutes ago, AuntieBea said:

It’s asking to be healed

AuntieBea! thank you for your post! I feel so much of what you have said, the crying, I cry alot. Some of it is healing, so it I don't even know what. I DO feel like I have a bunch of stuff suppressed way down deep and it was not safe to have feelings and so here I am now. The same like you, trying to get off these meds and having all kinds of stuff come up ON TOP of the brain balancing act.

It is always so good to know I am not alone in this fight for MYSELF. I feel I am fighting for the me that is me. 

[AuntieBea]

1 hour ago, DMV64 said:

t is always so good to know I am not alone in this fight for MYSELF. I feel I am fighting for the me that is me. 

 

Hey DMV...I love that!!! Me too, I’m fighting for the me that is me!!! And it is a fight for sure.

You’re being so brave with everything you’re working on. Gives me courage to keep fighting.

[DMV64]

3 hours ago, AuntieBea said:

courage

It really does take courage. Every single day. I feel pretty good right now. Usually nights are better. 

[DMV64]

Just checking in, wondering when this morning dread will hopefully go away. I think it might be getting better, I feel too foggy to tell. After splitting the Klonopin and Geoden and holding for 2+ months I feel it should be less but maybe that is not realistic. My doc is concerned about suicidal thinking, its not really that I want to end my life, it is more like I just sometimes feel like I cannot go on like this. They suggested updosing the Saphris to 1.5 but I don't think that is going to help. I just listened. I know it is an option.

I have been holding tight to my programs and sponsors in them. Reading here. Just hoping the fear will lessen and the sadness so I can be more present to the life I have. I want to keep my life. Today I read a quote in my Al-anon reader: You get to the point where your demons, which are terrifying, get smaller and smaller and you get bigger and bigger.

[JanCarol]

Hey D - 

 

On 4/19/2018 at 6:54 AM, DMV64 said:

I feel WORSE after therapy at least half of the time.

 

Oh my.  I was listening to Peter Levine last night, and he talked about how some types of therapy can actually sensitise you to trauma, by increasing awareness of it.

 

The example he gave was, someone who had a panic reaction anytime there was a person behind her.  In therapy, she tied it to a trauma where she was attacked and violated.  So now she knew what it was.  This was a breakthrough and insight - but - when she went to a party on the following weekend, there were always people behind her, and she felt and was aware of that feeling of being attacked.  This made her party experience miserable (and provoked her panic).  What Peter Levine reckoned is that she needed to physically release the trauma (he has a shaking protocol, to be done with another to support you) in order to be free of that feeling of someone behind you.  (that might tie into the Kim Eng practice I gave you, as well as akathisia.  Insight:  what if akathisia is simply the body's way to release the trauma caused by these drugs?)

He also talked about physical activity as - sometimes ramping it up, sometimes releasing.  The example he gave was angry protests at injustice.  The people of Ferguson Missouri, when they took their betrayal and injustice to the streets - sometimes their work was constructive ("Black Lives Matter") and sometimes it was a release - throwing rocks, vandalising - that only made them more angry.

 

Auntie Bea expressed great clarity when she wrote:

On 4/20/2018 at 5:29 AM, AuntieBea said:

The anger, the rage, the shame I feel at times is trying to tell me something. So I try not to suppress it, but work with it, process it, so that ultimately I can release it. I’ve come to recognize that it’s that very pain, buried deep within under layers of denial and fear, that’s at the bottom of the so called “depression” which I have lived with all my life. My therapist always called it shame spirals rather than depression which is interesting to me. I do a lot of crying. There’s a certain kind of crying that seems in itself to be the means for releasing this anguish. Sometimes I actually hear the child voice, the child who was me, crying the tears that I could not do then because it was not safe. But that pain was never forgotten. It’s stored deep within my body.

 

I wonder if the therapy you are getting right now is appropriate for withdrawal.  I know you need the support, but it's not the best time to go raking your soul over the coals of past suffering, when your present suffering is so - present!

 

I wonder if you would benefit from DBT:  http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/  This type of therapy involves sitting with your emotions, learning to tolerate distress, and finding techniques to help you survive extreme states.  It's not perfect (no single protocol is every perfect for everyone), but it might give you a skill set that can help you through this.

 

So how are the allergy shots?  Can they be contributing to some of your down feelings?  Are you still taking antihistamines?  How are your allergy symptoms?

 

On 4/19/2018 at 10:22 PM, DMV64 said:

the fact that my yoga studio is on the brink of closing.

 

This may not be the time to fight for it.  You will be better at attracting students once you have been through your Dark Night of the Soul (you thought you had that with alcohol - and yet - you are still going through it).  I know this feels like the only opportunity right now - but I remember taking yoga classes at my teacher's home - sometimes in the back yard in nice weather.  Or maybe you will be a travelling teacher, going to recovery centres or other studios to teach seminars or classes there.  I hate to say "save it" or "let it go," as I'm not you, and don't have your dreams.  But from what I'm hearing from you, this is a time to reduce stress, not pile it on.

 

On 4/20/2018 at 10:31 PM, DMV64 said:

Today I read a quote in my Al-anon reader: You get to the point where your demons, which are terrifying, get smaller and smaller and you get bigger and bigger.

 

I just watched a TED talk with Susan Heitler, and she actually has an exercise where you BUMP yourself up big.   Inhale, and expand, and feel yourself growing larger and larger.  This might be a useful visualisation for you!

 

 

Hang in there!  Keep experiencing what you are experiencing, and write about it.

 

Here's a possibility for exploration:  the "morning dread."  How much of that is physical (weariness, weakness, or fluttery heart, hot-and-cold) and how much of it is emotional (denigrating self talk, fear of what's next, anticipation of anything that is not the present, or rumination over the past)?  Parse it out, breathe with it, and see what it can teach you.

 

Symptoms are not "horrible things we want to go away."  Symptoms are teachers, Great Teachers, probably the strongest, clearest, most appropriate teacher you can have.  What are your symptoms teaching you?

Jeff Foster - From Depressed to Deep Rest 

 

I hope you see the sun today!

[DMV64]

4 hours ago, JanCarol said:

extreme

 I will look into the DBT. I don’t think my therapist was trying to trigger me. I just wound up feeling even more extreme because of the questioning. 

 I haven’t started the allergy shots yet because I was supposed to start on Tuesday but then I have a birth. Also whenever I have a birth it throws me off because of my sleep schedule getting interrupted

 I want to think of symptoms of teachers and I know in my mind that they are but in my heart it feels like I just really want them to go away. Because I want to feel normal. Whatever that means. I would just like to wake up with less fear. I’m trying to make friends with the fear and see what it has to tell me. But it is not always easy.

Thank you for being here. 

[DMV64]

15 hours ago, JanCarol said:

panic

This is so hard on my daughter. I can’t hide it. 

[JanCarol]

Hey D - 

 

I was not suggesting that your therapist meant to bring up all the bad stuff - but it is kinda what they do.  Most therapists are compassionate souls, and don't mean to harm you - but often take you into challenging, trauma-based places - because it is true that to be clear of these is healthier in the long run.

 

It's just that, in withdrawal may not be the best time to go scraping through traumatic stuff.  More a time - like the other suggestion she had of a toolkit of supportive words to help you through the hard times - for soothing and support.  I'm not saying she's a bad therapist at all - in fact, the Peter Levine story I told wasn't a bad therapist, either - it was inadvertent that the woman's new awareness bit her in the arse.  Ask for support, upliftment, and tools to "bump" you up (see Susan Heitler video) to help you get through these hard times.

 

I would like to hear more adjectives and feeling words about "morning dread," and "panic"  Rosetta is another member (there are a few, she just came to mind quickly) who is dealing with a child during this process.  You might visit her, and find the other Mom's in there talking about how they deal with it.  It is probably too much energy to "hide" it from her.  In Katinka Blackford-Newman's "The Pill that Steal's Lives," she was very open with her children, and taught them about what she was going through.  Not only were they supportive, but they would be open with her too, and tell her when she was embarrassing, or grossed them out, or whatever was bothering them.

 

Here's a selection of "feeling words" for describing your "morning dread" and "panic:"  

 

 

It's going to be a long time, but you will be so much better on the other side.  You can do this!

 

I hope you see the sun today.

[DMV64]

7 hours ago, JanCarol said:

child

 My daughter tells me things like “mom I am your daughter. I am the child. Some of this is too much for me.”

 So I try not to put it out on her. But she is around, at least for now, and he witnesses and here’s me sometimes when I really can’t help it. 

I like the descriptive words. Just looking at it quickly most of mine seem to fall into fear. ’m going to try to use them to describe my morning feeling.

[DMV64]

I just went for a run with a friend. It was great!

Words for me this morning upon waking: Despair, insecure, anxious, scared.

After running: accepted. optimistic, scared

[AuntieBea]

Hi D! That’s so great to be able to say that you feel accepted, optimistic, AND scared. Still scared, but that’s OK. It’s just another one of the feelings. It’s not who you are, it’s just what you’re feeling in this moment. Feelings come and go. I notice that if I can consciously make the shift from saying to myself, I AM afraid, to I FEEL afraid, it helps me disconnect enough from the gripping sense of fear to be able to recognize that it’s just another feeling. “I” am more than “it”  is.  It brings me back to this present moment, and the reality in this present moment is that I am safe, all is well in this moment. But it’s a subtle, inner shift of awareness that I can only experience by paying close attention when I’m quiet and still.

 

Having said that, there are also times when I’m overwhelmed by my feelings to the point of panic. That pushes me to the last resort which for me is prayer...”please help me!” Often there aren’t even words, I am so beside myself. But my Higher Power knows all those details anyway, so “please help” seems to be enough. I have to wonder why that’s my LAST resort, but I guess that’s all part of this process (project, journey, adventure) of being human. 

 

Sometimes what helps me the most is hearing “I love you” from someone who truly does love me unconditionally. That is a gift that I cannot expect or count on from another person but it is so very healing. The wounded child in me just seems to need to hear that...of course, learning to unconditionally love myself is ultimately where the healing is, but there are times when the gift of “I love you” from my friend is what helps me get there.

 

I love the adjective chart that JanCarol posted for you! If I can find just the right word to express what I’m feeling, a word that has the exact subtle nuance that perfectly fits with the internal sensation (feeling) that I am grappling with...being able to name it, and as precisely as possible, is so empowering for me. It’s sort of a reminder that I’m in charge of it, it’s not in charge of me.There are a couple of writers reference books, one is “The Emotional Thesaurus” and one is “The Emotional Wound Thesaurus.” My friend just told me about them yesterday and I think that’s the most exciting thing ever! I can’t wait to look through them. Those are going in my toolbox for sure. I am so grateful for all of JanCarol’s posts to you...they are very helpful to me as well. I’ve been reading back some on your thread and in some ways I hear you telling my story.

 

I’m going to say goodbye for now D. I’m actually starting to feel a wave of anxiety coming over me right in the middle of writing this. It’s the brain balancing act kind of anxiety. I explain it to myself as being drug induced anxiety as opposed to the anxiety of emotional upset and trauma. The drug induced type feels way more scary to me than the other. Maybe I’m just more familiar with the landscape of emotionally induced anxiety. Sometimes they overlap of course, and sometimes I can’t tell the difference. Anyway, all of a sudden, I have go, get still and quiet, pray, etc. Ugh! Easier said than done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DMV64]

3 hours ago, AuntieBea said:

am more than

My gosh I relate to everything you said. The please help me, the hearing I love you...the feelings of the drug panic as opposed to the other type of panic. Sometimes I can't write long here because I get triggered thinking so much about what is going on inside me. I also wish I was a better typist.

This morning I have been all over the map, feel a bit dragged around. Had to lie down for awhile.

I sent an email out this morning declining being on this Board of Directors but I have not heard anything back. Of course I am making up the story about how terrible I am to bow out. Sigh.

My brain cannot do it now. I need to rest and restore.

xoxo

Thanks for writing!

[AuntieBea]

I’m a terrible typist too...I just plunk away (tap away), and my thoughts race ahead faster than I can catch up. Then I get overwhelmed!! I totally relate to what you’re saying!!

 

I just figured out today that I can actually dictate what I want to say on a post...OMG what a concept!! Not that I have that much to say most of the time, but it makes me wonder if that’s how some people are able to write such long, impressive posts...? I’m not computer savvy at all, needless to say.

 

I feel so silly posting this but I’m going to do it anyway...I’m trying to practice reaching out and connecting with other people.

Seriously. I need to do that for my recovery.

 

 

[DMV64]

30 minutes ago, AuntieBea said:

dictate

I have found I can dictate from my phone. I wish I could figure out how to do it from my computer. Because sometimes my phone will just glitch and not allow me to post all of what I just dictated which is very frustrating.

[AuntieBea]

I’m using an iPad and the microphone is right on the keypad. The computer might be different.

[DMV64]

3 hours ago, AuntieBea said:

am more than

OMG! I just discovered I can dictate into my laptop! This is amazing. More amazing is that I had enough clarity to follow instructions.

[DMV64]

@Rosetta @wantrelief @JanCarol

 

Look! I am using the @ sign! 

Well today was kind of rough. Had the morning fear, cortisol spike and crying spell. Pulled myself together to go teach which was mixed since I was kind of struggling to concentrate. Had a break in the middle of the day and napped which helps usually. And it did help slow things down a bit. Now just have a headache. When night comes I look forward to sleep but feel afraid of the morning.

[wantrelief]

Yay - the @ sign worked!  I am sorry you had a rough day, DMV.  The symptoms you are describing having had this morning sound really hard - it is amazing you were able to teach despite how you were feeling.....you should be proud of this accomplishment!

[Carmie]

10 minutes ago, DMV64 said:

@Rosetta @wantrelief @JanCarol

 

Look! I am using the @ sign! 

Well today was kind of rough. Had the morning fear, cortisol spike and crying spell. Pulled myself together to go teach which was mixed since I was kind of struggling to concentrate. Had a break in the middle of the day and napped which helps usually. And it did help slow things down a bit. Now just have a headache. When night comes I look forward to sleep but feel afraid of the morning.

 

Was just reading some of your thread DMV and you just made me laugh out loud when you said: “Look! I am using the @ sign” 😂. I haven’t used it on here either.

 

Sorry you had such a bad morning. Yes, mornings can be scary, I find if I’m in a bit of a panic due to  withdrawals it’s best just to turn the light on and do something to distract myself. 

 

Hope your headache goes soon xxx

[DMV64]

Mornings are the worst! I am so glad my @ sign is working! My daughter is blasting rap music. I think I need Advil. 

[Carmie]

10 hours ago, DMV64 said:

Mornings are the worst! I am so glad my @ sign is working! My daughter is blasting rap music. I think I need Advil. 

 

Do you get some good mornings DMV?

 

Oh, your poor headache with the loud music. I love music, not rap so much, but everything from Imagine Dragons to Josh Groban.

The person I’ve seen most in concert is Rob Thomas. I play a lot of music at home but I go through stages where I just like quiet.

Through some of my tapers putting on the headphones and cranking up the music has been a good distraction.

 

Hope your headache  has subsided and the next morning for you is a bit bearable. They can be hard.

 

Sending hugs xxx

 

 

 

[DMV64]

46 minutes ago, Carmie said:

bearable

 Thanks for the hugs. This morning was better because I met my friend and went for a run with her. She suffers from anxiety and depression as well and we got to talk afterward to have a few laughs about this crazy journey. 

[TheWayBack]

And I'm wishing you more mornings like this DMV64!

[DMV64]

@Carmie @wantrelief @JanCarol

I am having an ok morning! I have an all day training today. I hope it goes ok. I have to eat at a certain time and step out to take my titrate drink. Feel a little nervous about being able to be present for the whole thing but I did tell the leader I might need to step out to take a break. 

[DMV64]

The last two days have been rough. I am in a training all day from 9-5 which involves a demo teach today. Yesterday I just felt trapped and fearful. I thought is my fear really here to teach me something? Or is it just medically induced and I am suffering it? Just feel depressed today, and last night. And tired of it. I just want to quit all these damn drugs and be done with it and i know I can't do it like that.