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Thyroid symptoms - hypothyroid, Hashimoto's

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GiaK

Hi, Alex...

 

I did the perfect diet for a while...oddly I gained a lot of weight unlike with all other versions of healing diets I've tried...

 

it did inform where I've come to (sort of) rest...I eat sweet potatoes now as a result of my time with the perfect diet :-)

 

and I'll toss in a third voice supporting the idea that the endocrine system can definitely dysregulate and re-regulate on its own...and withdrawal seems to be a BIG cause of dysregulation...it often clears up as people heal...

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Barbarannamated

Yes, I want to know more, too. Let us know what you find out, Barb. My dad had vasculitis, but a different kin as yours,, both my sister and mom have thyroid disease, and my niece has ulcerative colitis. So autoimmune stuff is on my mind a lot.

 

I might make a trip to California to see someone who could help me, if I can manage it financially with no health insurance.

 

I joined the LDN Yahoogroup and have only been reading others' posts so far. There seem to be alot of different opinions and responses as well as questions about dosing and side effects.

 

If anyone is considering this, I suggest checking out the group for awhile.

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alexjuice

I haven't seen any research or studies that identify a connection between withdrawals and thyroid problems. Since antidepressant withdrawal isn't widely recognized you wouldn't see any studies identifying the connection.

 

Personally, I believe that undiagnosed thyroid problems result in depression symptoms that are often treated incorrectly with antidepressants. So it is possible that you already had an underlying thyroid problem, but were treated with antidepressants.

 

I'll do some research - there may be some research that antidepressants affect the endocrine system and if that is the case, that is the connection you'd be looking for.

 

My speculation would center on immune dysfunction probably related to intestinal permeability or dysbiosis.

 

I think it's more likely that antidepressants are more often a factor in the triggering of Hashimoto's than that the Hashi's symptoms cause people to go on ADs. Obviously, not a doctor but that's my guess.

 

Diet seems really important in autoimmune disorders and the pills, if you eat them, are part of the diet as far as the intestines are concerned.

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alexjuice

Have you read anything by Datis Kharrazian? Other alt health bloggers seem to hold him in highest regard, "master diagnostician" said Chris Kresser.

 

http://thyroidbook.com/blog

 

Evidently though there is some controversy. It appears he trains practioners at seminars and then they use his protocols which supposedly require large commitments in time and money.

 

I've been reading his book. Lots of interesting stuff, lots of supp recommendations ... too bad I'm in w/d, though I may try gently with them anyway. Also, it's silly to say too bad I'm in w/d b/c if I wasn't all crisscrossed from psych drugs I highly, highly doubt I'd have suddenly developed thyroid problems which are "rare in men", particularly under 35 yrs.

 

Alex

 

Now, many months later, I am less enthusiastic about Kharrazian. I worked for a while with a clinician who did Kharrazian's seminars and I ended up underwhelmed.

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Barbarannamated

Now, many months later, I am less enthusiastic about Kharrazian. I worked for a while with a clinician who did Kharrazian's seminars and I ended up underwhelmed.

 

My sister-in-law did the program of one of his practitioners and I'm also underwhelmed. Lots of labwork and physical type therapy to retrain the brain. However, i know she's on Effexor and i asked her what this doctor said about how if effects the adrenals/endocrine system and she said it was never mentioned although other drugs were.

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alexjuice

The practioner I saw had me walk twenty paces doing a motion with my left arm while holding the right one at my side. Then repeat it rotating each arm.

 

Afterwards he said he could tell I'd taken psychiatric medication and that after we fixed my autoimmune problems, we'd then fix psych med damage.

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Barbarannamated

Afterwards he said he could tell I'd taken psychiatric medication and that after we fixed my autoimmune problems, we'd then fix psych med damage.

 

I'd love to know how. Or even the theory...

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alexjuice

I dunno.

 

Get my neurotransmitters in balance!

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Barbarannamated

Of course! Because that approach has worked so well in the past. :o

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dunerbug

I have had a ton of hypothyroid symptoms and have had 3 different blood tests done. All were within the normal range. Two of the tests checked the t3 and t4, not just the tsh.

 

Some of the things I've dealt with that made me suspect thyroid:

Cold feet

fatigue

hormonal imbalance and adrenal issues

Very low blood pressure causing near fainting upon standing.

Hair falling out.

terrible periods/heavy and bad pms

dry skin

depressed mood

The list goes on....

I would have bet the farm I had thyroid problems.

 

Now that I'm learning about withdrawal, I see a lot of my symptoms in a different light.

 

I did however, have some fatigue and others stuff start appearing on my second stint of prozac, as it didn't work as well..The med, in general always made me more tired.

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alexjuice

I have had a ton of hypothyroid symptoms and have had 3 different blood tests done. All were within the normal range. Two of the tests checked the t3 and t4, not just the tsh.

 

Hi dunnerbug,

 

The normal range is absolutely not meaningful on the thyroid tests. You may have a hypothyroidism that is transient, but those are the classic hypothyroid symptons. If your TSH is >1.5, I'd not rule out thyroid problems. Do you have copies of your labwork?

 

Alex

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alexjuice

Here is an article that gives specific information about why the TSH is not necessarily the best indicator of thyroid function. http://nahypothyroidism.org/how-accurate-is-tsh-testing/

 

Karma

 

The TSH is inversely correlated with pituitary T3 levels but with physiologic stress (1-32), depression (33-38), insulin resistance and diabetes (28,39,116,117), aging (30,40-49), calorie deprivation (dieting)(27, 50-57), inflammation (5-8,22,108,109-111), PMS (58,59), chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia (60,61), obesity (112,113,114) and numerous other conditions (1-32), increasing pituitary T3 levels are often associated with diminished cellular and tissue T3 levels and increased reverse T3 levels in the rest of the body (1-62) (see pituitary diagram).

This is so confusing to me...[EDIT] because what the hell kind of sentence is this?

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dunerbug

 

I have had a ton of hypothyroid symptoms and have had 3 different blood tests done. All were within the normal range. Two of the tests checked the t3 and t4, not just the tsh.

 

Hi dunnerbug,

 

The normal range is absolutely not meaningful on the thyroid tests. You may have a hypothyroidism that is transient, but those are the classic hypothyroid symptons. If your TSH is >1.5, I'd not rule out thyroid problems. Do you have copies of your labwork?

 

Alex

 

I do have copies.

The interesting thing is when I had a hair mineral test done it showed me to be hypothyroid.

My naturopathic doc said she didn't want to give me thyroid meds because it would make my anxiety worse. She also believed that because my numbers were considered normal that we could treat it naturally. My first test was in normal range, just on the higher side of normal. My latest test showed some improvement.

I will dig up my results.

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dunerbug

I've heard thyroid test are really flawed, especially if only testing tsh.

 

I've also heard that people with a lower t3 generally have more anxiety. Mine was on the low side of normal.

 

I really find it strange that the common denominator of my symptoms is prozac.

 

This one little pill threw my body into chaos, tipped my chemistry off it's axis and turned my life upside down.

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dunerbug

Here is my first test done in sept.

 

TSH 3.130 Normal range is 0.450-4.500

T4 1.04 Normal range is 0.82-1.77

T3 2.2 Normal range is 2.0-4.4

 

Lasted test was Dec.

 

TSH 2.55

T4 1.10

T3 2.8

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alexjuice

I do have copies.

The interesting thing is when I had a hair mineral test done it showed me to be hypothyroid.

My naturopathic doc said she didn't want to give me thyroid meds because it would make my anxiety worse. She also believed that because my numbers were considered normal that we could treat it naturally. My first test was in normal range, just on the higher side of normal. My latest test showed some improvement.

I will dig up my results.

....

TSH 3.130 Normal range is 0.450-4.500

T4 1.04 Normal range is 0.82-1.77

T3 2.2 Normal range is 2.0-4.4

 

Lasted test was Dec.

 

TSH 2.55

T4 1.10

T3 2.8

 

Those look like Free T3 and Free T4, yes? FT3, TSH appear suboptimal to me especially if you are having symptoms. Though improving.

 

How did your ND determine hypothyroid from a hair mineral test? I suspect it'd be from low iodine, but the solution is a little tricky, IMO. Adding supplemental iodine can cause problems if done too rapidly or if co-factors -- especially selenium, copper, zinc, iron -- are out of whack.

 

Furthermore, hair tests are not universally hailed for their reliability but IMO whatever data you have is better than no data.

 

I am no expert on hypothyroidism. I find it complicated generally especially since it seems multi-factorial to me. I'm not taking thyroid hormone (yet) and there's good reason to think T3 could aggraviate anxiety. How did your ND want to treat it naturally?

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Barbarannamated

Alex,

I can't even follow that sentence above let alone make sense of it. TSH is a moving target and, as you know, influenced by many fluctuating variables.

 

B

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Karma

Hi Dunerbug,

 

What I've observed in the thyroid patient advocate site that I frequent is that people with a FT3 at the lower end of the range tend to be hypothyroid and to experience hypothyroid symptoms. When these patients manage to get treatment from their doctors their symptoms go away.

 

Getting treatment usually involves investigating other things like serum iron, B12 levels, vitamin D3 levels and the sodium and potassium electrolytes. These components need to be balanced in order for the body to use the available thyroid hormone whether it is what is naturally available in the body or what is supplemented.

 

Karma

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dunerbug

 

I do have copies.

The interesting thing is when I had a hair mineral test done it showed me to be hypothyroid.

My naturopathic doc said she didn't want to give me thyroid meds because it would make my anxiety worse. She also believed that because my numbers were considered normal that we could treat it naturally. My first test was in normal range, just on the higher side of normal. My latest test showed some improvement.

I will dig up my results.

....

TSH 3.130 Normal range is 0.450-4.500

T4 1.04 Normal range is 0.82-1.77

T3 2.2 Normal range is 2.0-4.4

 

Lasted test was Dec.

 

TSH 2.55

T4 1.10

T3 2.8

 

Those look like Free T3 and Free T4, yes? FT3, TSH appear suboptimal to me especially if you are having symptoms. Though improving.

 

How did your ND determine hypothyroid from a hair mineral test? I suspect it'd be from low iodine, but the solution is a little tricky, IMO. Adding supplemental iodine can cause problems if done too rapidly or if co-factors -- especially selenium, copper, zinc, iron -- are out of whack.

 

Furthermore, hair tests are not universally hailed for their reliability but IMO whatever data you have is better than no data.

 

I am no expert on hypothyroidism. I find it complicated generally especially since it seems multi-factorial to me. I'm not taking thyroid hormone (yet) and there's good reason to think T3 could aggraviate anxiety. How did your ND want to treat it naturally?

 

It was some kind of ratio like sodium to potassium or something along those lines. After she sent the hair to be tested, I got a whole book on the results. It was pretty detailed.

 

I thought about finding an endocrinologist, but I'm hesitant because so many of my symptoms seem related to the time frame of the prozac. I know that I could develop thyroid problems at anytime but I'm just not sure how far to take anyhting right now. Maybe I'm gun shy because a lot of the things I thought were going to help might have actually hurt.

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Karma

Hi Dunerbug

 

Endocrinologists are not necessarily any better than any other kind of doctor. A good DO, holistic family practitioner or internal medicine doctor could probably do as much for you.

 

Here is a link to a list of "good" thyroid doctors, http://thyroid.about.com/cs/doctors/a/topdocs.htm, perhaps you can find someone from this list to work with.

 

One thing we've found on this site is that if you are experiencing withdrawals you need to be your own advocate. If supplements are recommended, use single ingredient supplements and start with a low dose to see how you react. Don't let an uninformed doctor push you to accelerate adoption of a supplement or medication. You need to go slowly and monitor your body's reaction.

 

Karma

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dunerbug

Hi Dunerbug

 

Endocrinologists are not necessarily any better than any other kind of doctor. A good DO, holistic family practitioner or internal medicine doctor could probably do as much for you. Here is a link to a list of "good" thyroid doctors, http://thyroid.about.com/cs/doctors/a/topdocs.htm, perhaps you can find someone from this list to work with.

 

One thing we've found on this site is that if you are experiencing withdrawals you need to be your own advocate. If supplements are recommended, use single ingredient supplements and start with a low dose to see how you react. Don't let an uninformed doctor push you to accelerate adoption of a supplement or medication. You need to go slowly and monitor your body's reaction.

 

Karma

 

Thank you for the resource!

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dunerbug

 

I do have copies.

The interesting thing is when I had a hair mineral test done it showed me to be hypothyroid.

My naturopathic doc said she didn't want to give me thyroid meds because it would make my anxiety worse. She also believed that because my numbers were considered normal that we could treat it naturally. My first test was in normal range, just on the higher side of normal. My latest test showed some improvement.

I will dig up my results.

....

TSH 3.130 Normal range is 0.450-4.500

T4 1.04 Normal range is 0.82-1.77

T3 2.2 Normal range is 2.0-4.4

 

Lasted test was Dec.

 

TSH 2.55

T4 1.10

T3 2.8

 

Those look like Free T3 and Free T4, yes? FT3, TSH appear suboptimal to me especially if you are having symptoms. Though improving.

 

How did your ND determine hypothyroid from a hair mineral test? I suspect it'd be from low iodine, but the solution is a little tricky, IMO. Adding supplemental iodine can cause problems if done too rapidly or if co-factors -- especially selenium, copper, zinc, iron -- are out of whack.

 

Furthermore, hair tests are not universally hailed for their reliability but IMO whatever data you have is better than no data.

 

I am no expert on hypothyroidism. I find it complicated generally especially since it seems multi-factorial to me. I'm not taking thyroid hormone (yet) and there's good reason to think T3 could aggraviate anxiety. How did your ND want to treat it naturally?

 

She gave me a c-complex which had something in there supposed to aid thyroid funtion.

I took a thyroid herbal complex and a desacated thyroid type complex without the thyroxine. I couldn't take that as it made my anxiety worse. She gave a multi whole food vit that had things in it to help with hormones. She also had me eating a bunch of brazil nuts. There are probably others that I'm forgetting to mention.

I'm not taking any of those now.

 

I mentioned in my introduction thread that I've spent close to $2000 dollars with this Ndoc and have not improved enough to justify the cost anymore. I will continue to get basic supps from her though, like a multi, d3, iron, etc.

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spidey

So the last week or so I've been reacting to my Synthroid med. It amps me up like I'm on caffeine. At this point it's not a bad feeling, but I know that in time the reaction will become one of extreme panic instead of a jolt of energy. I'm going to start tapering off of it today. However, I'm concerned about leaving my body without a functioning thyroid. If I don't have that on board I can't heal properly (yet I know if I keep ingesting synthetic substances....I won't heal that way either). Are there natural ways to treat hypothyroidism (that are proven to be successful)?

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Altostrata

Thyroid medication dosage needs to be adjusted from time to time. Please see your doctor about this.

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GiaK

there are natural forms of thyroid...a lot of people have issues with Synthroid...not just those of us in withdrawal...you need to find a doctor who treats with natural forms...various alternative type MDs and naturopaths etc...will know about that...

 

thyroid is tricky...it's good to find someone who specializes with thyroid issues. 

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spidey

Yah it's weird.....I was always told that Synthroid was perfectly safe and "natural" and that there were no known side effects. I suppose side effects and reactions are two different things, though. About 2 weeks ago I had some blood work done and one of the things they checked was my thyroid. The levels came back in the low range of normal. I'll look into a more natural approach to this....

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Iggy131313

hi mate christiana has this condition and uses 60mg armour thyroid, is that a natural treatment?
 
maybe you could speak to her?

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Karma

Armour is natural desiccated thyroid ... it is desiccate pig thyroid ... and it has 4 forms of thyroid in it, T1, T2, T3 and T4 as well as calcitonin.  It gives the patient everything a functioning thyroid would supply, but in a slightly different ratio.  Other desiccated products include NatureThroid and ERFA out of Canada.

 

It is possible that your symptoms are due to other inbalances in your system.  If your iron, D3 or B12 is low it can cause symptoms when thyroid treatment is present.  If your electrolytes are not balanced you can experience symtpoms when thyroid treatment is present.  And, I agree with Alto you do have to adjust your thyroid treatment from time to time.

 

In my case, my adrenals were struggling and I could not get optimized on my thyroid treatment ... I took Armour at the time. 

 

Here is a thread I started about thyroid symptoms that has some other links to patient advocate sites who specialize in natural thyroid and a few other things: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1593-thyroid-symptoms/?hl=hashimoto%26%2339%3Bs

 

Karma

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spidey

My iron levels were found to be low here recently, so yes, I'm sure that's one of the issues complicating matters. I will look into the armour thyroid as an option....and of course continue to check my thyroid levels.

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Christiana

Hi Spidey,

 

I agree with Karma.

 

Iggy is correct.  I take armour thyroid and do better with it than any of the other thyroid meds.

 

Maybe if you broke your pill into little pieces and took one here and there throughout the day, you'd feel better? That's what I did, when I was having a really hard time taking mine, since I started withdrawal, and no reason was found as to why it could have been giving me problems.

 

I do think you should rule out anything that could be causing you any problems with taking it though.

 

Here's a link to a great book I've read and still have that really taught me a lot about thyroid related stuff...

http://www.amazon.com/Living-Well-Hypothyroidism-Revised-Edition/dp/0060740957/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372899115&sr=8-1&keywords=mary+shomon+what+your+doctor

 

I hope I've helped you some and you get it figured out, so you start feeling better soon! (hugs)

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gettingunstuck

So the last week or so I've been reacting to my Synthroid med. It amps me up like I'm on caffeine. At this point it's not a bad feeling, but I know that in time the reaction will become one of extreme panic instead of a jolt of energy. I'm going to start tapering off of it today. However, I'm concerned about leaving my body without a functioning thyroid. If I don't have that on board I can't heal properly (yet I know if I keep ingesting synthetic substances....I won't heal that way either). Are there natural ways to treat hypothyroidism (that are proven to be successful)?

I take a thyroid rx that I believe is natural.  It has T3 and T4 and it's compounded.  It's made by the same pharmacy that makes bio-identical hormones.  I'll have to ask them when I pick it up if it's considered non-synthetic.  I don't have any negative reactions such as feeling like I'm on caffeine.  I don't like taking anything synthetic, either.  I'll have to get the run down and post, here.

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gettingunstuck

My iron levels were found to be low here recently, so yes, I'm sure that's one of the issues complicating matters. I will look into the armour thyroid as an option....and of course continue to check my thyroid levels.

My iron levels were low, too, which puzzled me.  I'm not having periods anymore so I can't figure out how my iron could be low.  A few years back, same thing happened.  Not to blame everything on ADs, but I have to wonder if the digestive issues I was experiencing were caused by the ADs, therefore, absorption problems.  It's just odd.  I did feel a little better taking the iron supplement. 

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Christiana

Hi GU,

 

It sounds like what you're taking isn't synthetic, but it never hurts to ask, to be for sure.

 

Withdrawal is known to cause digestive problems, so it wouldn't surprise me a bit, if your low iron levels, came about because of it.

 

I know we can't blame everything on withdrawal though, but it sure can affect some of us negatively in many ways. 

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Sally3

Just wondered if anyone on this forum has found that they have a thyroid problem, i.e. Hashimoto's Hypothyroid condition,  or is there anyone who had it and once they got off their SSRI, it cleared up?

Just wondering how SSRI's could possibly be linked to causing this autoimmune illness..Thank you!

 

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