littleball: I want to go back to what I used to be

[littleball]

Hello everyone, 

I am an Italian 25 year-old girl, who is experiencing WD syndrome from Effexor, sorry if my English is not so great.

First of all, I have to say I am still taking medication.
At the moment my doctor is Prof. Giovanni Andrea Fava (you may know him, I saw that you posted some of his research in the forum). He was the only one the understand the hell I was going through and when I first came to him saying that since taking ADs I wasn't feeling myself anymore and that especially Effexor gave me anxiety, racing thoughts, carelessness and hypomania, he immediately put me off of it  and labeled it as "poison". 

After a 2 months tapering under his advice, I stopped in March of this year after over 1 year of Effexor (in the end I had switched from 75 mg to 150 mg after a romantic problem, back then I didn't know that my reaction could have been a drug tolerance episode) and 1 year of Zoloft before. 

My original issue was ROCD, Relationship-centered OCD. This exploded like a psychosis while I was taking an antibiotic for acne in November 2015, I don't know if there was any correlation between the two facts, of course I had problems with my boyfriend with whom I eventually broke up. I remember urging to the doctor and being put on Trilafon, Zoloft and Rivotril in a glimpse. While the obsession calmed down a little bit, the quality of my life worsened, so that I wasn't feeling myself anymore. I became really demotivated, I lost interest in university and I lost 1 year without taking exams. Now I am about to graduate after many efforts struggling with all of these bad feelings, but I am scared to death as with the new year I will have to seek a job as an engineer but I can't handle any stress right now. 

My "relapse" happened while I was in Germany working at my Master's thesis. Maybe it wasn't the best idea going for and exchange program after withdrawal (Fava knew, but didn't tell me to encourage me), I was doing quite  but at some point I became suicidal without even being able to eat or get out of my room. 
I had to go back to Italy at the end of June in bad conditions and went to see Fava, who explained to me about the withdrawal syndrome and gave me 10 mg of Prozac and 0.5 mg of clonazepam to be taken daily to calm down the symptoms which are:
-mood swings
-terrible depression/hypomania
-suicidal thoughts
-exagerrated feelings of guilt, fear and low self-esteem
-brain zaps occasionally
-racing thoughts (got better though)
-unexplainable anxiety
-tingling
-feeling like the brain is burning after some thoughts or events
-low stress tolerance
-nightmares and waking up in the morning in fear and confusion

-demotivation

-sensitivity to noise

 

Oh, btw, I still have ROCD even if the partners changed. I've done CBT and it is way milder, it took me a lot, but the price to pay is this freakin syndrome and I think that life is such unfair, after all the sufferings I've been through since I was a child and this one is the worst for sure, because I don't know if it will end. I won't talk about the other ones, it is not an issue at the moment.

I have to say that I am already better, I can have a living, but sometimes, as many people of you do I guess, I feel I will not get back to what I was. I want to experience sadness, like before, not despair. I don't want to live with that strange constant anxiety or uncomfortable feeling (it's hard to explain, I didn't have it before taking drugs) which I had had also while on Zoloft. It has not gone away, never, for almost 3 years. And I am not sure if its origin is psychological, because I have this also while doing crosswords or laughing with my sister or writing this post, even if I am focused and calm. 

The things that worry me the most are the aforementioned "feeling", the inability to hold a good position in the job world because I have to avoid any type of stress otherwise I feel like I am burning or I become very fearful and my blood freezes and...
the sexual thing. 

One of the reasons why I developed this ROCD is that because I had sexual problems with my boyfriend. I couldn't get aroused with him, but with other stimuli I was functioning. Eventually we split up (best decision of my life, even if the depression had a role in this). Now I have a new boyfriend, who I love so much. The difference is that I want to have sex with him most of the times, but I can't get aroused, you know... wet, and feel no pleasure. And since this was my main concern even before taking the drugs, I am terrified that one wrong choice would have caused a permanent damage to my sexuality, the thing I was always craving for because I wasn't feeling satisfied. 

Dr. Fava says that WD Syndrome lasts 6 months on average. So the 6 months have passed but the improvement are really small, sexuality has not returned and here I see people struggling for YEARS. Should I trust him? Come on, he is one of the leading experts worldwide and one of the first to recognize the problem, but I still don't know.

I just want to go back to the mess I was, stop obsessing about symptoms and tolerate adversities as I always did before.

 
I can say that racing thoughts have got milder... but it's not enough for me. I've been feeling bad for three years and suffered all my life before, I am sick of this situation.

[littleball]

Does anyone suffer from bladder or urethral problems and think that they are related to ADs? I am asking especially the ladies. 

I've always had cystitis, not so recurrent though, and it used to be completely different from now: while on Effexor, I developed a chronic pain in the bladder/urethra or permanent muscular tension in that area. I've always thought it was inflammation from E. Coli. and saw many gynecologists and urologists. Sometimes the urine analysis report the presence of bacteria, then I take an antibiotic. But while the infection may go away, the pain never does, actually the pain strengthens for a while after the medications. My GP says it might be related to gastritis or to the nerves in general and labels it as something "psychosomatic", as many others. 

I've been suffering from almost 2 years, no matter how much I drink and always thought it was unrelated to the ADs. But as I wanted to go to another urologist, I started to think about that there would be little that he could do. I have to ask Dr. Fava about this (hoping that he won't tell me "Stop thinking about the symptoms!", haha).
I also have sexual problems and this bladder thing of course worsens the situation.
 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, littleball.

 

I am sorry you have had these problems. 

 

On 10/13/2017 at 2:33 PM, littleball said:

10 mg of Prozac and 0.5 mg of clonazepam to be taken daily to calm down the symptoms 

 

What times of day do you take these drugs, and at what dosages? Are you taking any other drugs?

 

How have your withdrawal symptoms changed since you started taking Prozac and clonazepam in June? How are you sleeping?

 

After people have been on psychiatric drugs for a long while, and go on and off drugs, they often feel emotional anesthesia. This is an action of the drugs, you might say it's how they work. Professor Fava knows this well.

 

Emotional anesthesia and low libido are also common side effects of drugs like Prozac. It is possible reducing the Prozac slightly might help this.

 

I'm not familiar with ROCD, it seems a peculiarly specific form of OCD. If you worked with a psychotherapist, you might find it has psychological roots that you might resolve.

 

 

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, littleball said:

Does anyone suffer from bladder or urethral problems and think that they are related to ADs? I am asking especially the ladies. 

 

Hi littleball, and welcome to SA,

 

I moved the topic you created and merged it with your Intro topic.  It is best to ask questions about your own situation in your Intro topic so that your history is all in one place and other members can see your questions and the responses.

 

There are many topics already being discussed on SA.  Here is the discussion urination-and-bladder-issues-male-and-female

[littleball]

Dear Altostrata, 

Thank you very much for your reply. I admire your commitment and I wish that people especially in social media could become aware more of this issues, other than speculating on other stupid controversies.


 

8 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

How have your withdrawal symptoms changed since you started taking Prozac and clonazepam in June? How are you sleeping?

Well, I must say that there was definitely a slow but consistent improvement. Especially in the depressive and suicidal thoughts, in concentration and in the entity of the ups and downs.
But some new symptoms recently showed up even with Prozac, like burning skin and tingling (I wasn't expecting this). Also the anxiety/strange feeling has not disappeared but I had it also while I was taking the drug. 

A couple of months ago after some days of bad insomnia I had a panic attack with tachicardia for which I called the ambulance because I thought I was having a stroke, never had a panic attack in my life before.

I was worrying because I was wondering if I was just delaying my healing or maybe worsening my condition because of another med. I know that fluoxetine is "safer" compared to others, but it is still an SSRI and I read that there are people who suffer from Prozac WD anyway.

 

17 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

What times of day do you take these drugs, and at what dosages? Are you taking any other drugs?

 

Prozac 10 mg + 0.25 clonazepam when I get up, 0.25 clonazepam before going to sleep, but my habits are a bit irregular so I don't have fixed hours, maybe I should. 

As for the sleeping, the morning are always awful, but generally I can sleep, sometimes too much.
Now I have a little "wave" of insomnia. Similar pattern... Yesterday I had a very small panic attack and today my sleep was interrupted this morning at 4 by tachycardia (now it is 9.30 in the morning). 
At times I am too optimistic, just right now for example, I don't like it. And I am scared of it, because I was never "too much" positive in my life: maybe I will have another breakdown, how can I be prepared so.

I realized that in this forum there are people who may have suffered or suffer more than me, but this teaches me and should teach the others that all this thing do depends on the individual and everyone should just hold on and keep strength. 

 

[littleball]

I've been having stomach-ache (like acidity) for a few days, but I don't know if any of the supplements is interfering, or if it's a symptom itself. 
I am taking 2000 mg of fish oil, approximately 500 mg of magnesium citrate (but actually I skipped some doses of it and didn't notice any difference) and mauve infuses to see if they have any impact on the urination problem. 

By the way, getting out of bed has always been an issue for me, but even if I have some things to do in the morning (like working at my thesis), the motivation is not enough to make me get up at some decent hour. I stay in bed even if I don't sleep, waiting like 2 hours before falling asleep again, and then eventually get up. 

[littleball]

Sorry, the upcoming are just random thoughts on my journey. 

Ok, I now suspect having something like an ulcer. I can't really describe it, because I've never had such an issue for such a long time. It's been a week since my stomach has been making lots of noises and it is like burning. And oh pins and needles are really bad. 

A friend of mine asked me to send my CV to apply for a "software developer" job. This would be my very first job, after graduation. Now I am scared that it will be unsafe to seek a job right after. What would you do if you were me? At the moment I am in a protected environment, I am living at home, pretty much no stress, doing almost nothing, waiting to graduate, no responsibilities then, no fixed hours, I get up when I feel like to. But this is not real life, in a couple of months I'd be better entering the adult world. But now I feel i can't, I feel that would be irresponsible to start a new life, start a job and work 8-9 hours a day, move into another house, maybe alone, etc, because I know I can't right now. 

I went to the gym today trying to defeat lethargy. When I was done,  I was happy at first but then I became very agitated. 
I've just started exercising (I do a 1-hour full workout) and I am really enjoying in it, I don't want to quit so soon. What would you suggest?

When I feel better, I am too optimistic. And right after "feeling better" I have a breakdown the following day. Also I question if this feeling of well being is a symptom itself. 

Fears and obsessions are still there, anxiety seemed to become softer and I hope it won't show up again, as long as the "intrusive thoughts", "voices in my head", whatever they are called. I saw in this forum someone writing "I could hear my own thoughts", that's pretty much what I mean.
 

I would like to ask anybody if Prozac and Klonopin (in Italy it is called Rivotril, sorry if I messed up before), which I am taking, are indeed a little bit "safer" than the other drugs, because right now I am worrying that this way it will take too long to get clean.

[ChessieCat]

On 24/10/2017 at 11:02 PM, littleball said:

500 mg of magnesium citrate

 

It is best to take smaller doses throughout the day.

[littleball]

2 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

It is best to take smaller doses throughout the day.

Ok, thank You, actually I was already splitting it into two times but I will try ti cut it more. 

[ChessieCat]

I take mine twice a day.  Occasionally I will take an extra 1/2 tablet.  Some people dissolve it in water and sip it throughout the day.

 

 

[miT]

9 hours ago, littleball said:

A friend of mine asked me to send my CV to apply for a "software developer" job. This would be my very first job, after graduation. Now I am scared that it will be unsafe to seek a job right after. What would you do if you were me? At the moment I am in a protected environment, I am living at home, pretty much no stress, doing almost nothing, waiting to graduate, no responsibilities then, no fixed hours, I get up when I feel like to. But this is not real life, in a couple of months I'd be better entering the adult world. But now I feel i can't, I feel that would be irresponsible to start a new life, start a job and work 8-9 hours a day, move into another house, maybe alone, etc, because I know I can't right now. 

 

I'm a software developer too. It really depends on your situation and the company. I can afford having a bad day and practically nobody will notice. Other companies hold daily standup meetings where you explain your progress of the previous day to the team.

 

Why don't you try get some structure in your life as a test? Get up at 8, also when feeling bad. Do some studying, gardening, gym and see how you cope.

 

Also try to meet with friends or other people. Go to the supermarket. Maybe have a chat.

[littleball]

3 hours ago, miT said:

Why don't you try get some structure in your life as a test? Get up at 8, also when feeling bad. Do some studying, gardening, gym and see how you cope.

Thank you, miT! Yes, it's a life-time challenge for me, but now it seems that the time to get new habits has truly come.

[bruno2016]

effexor was the first AD i was on. Its a truly powerful drug and the WD is horrendous. I think i was on it for about two years or so then began switching things up. 

 

you will eventually level out. I would encourage you to do some simple things that helped me during the worst of times: meditate 10 min after you wake up, and 10 min before bed), eat super clean (mainly wild fish, fruits, veggies, no wheat/gluten, no processed sugars, no alcohol, etc), keep your blood sugar balanced, light exercise, lots of water, etc. There are some other things that helped me too. Have faith and some patience and as time goes on things will level out. 

 

 

[littleball]

On 27/10/2017 at 4:38 PM, bruno2016 said:

effexor was the first AD i was on. Its a truly powerful drug and the WD is horrendous. I think i was on it for about two years or so then began switching things up.

thank you, how do you feel now bruno?

What I noticed is that I am having a wave of depression and obsessions/compulsions, which change their theme over the time. 
The thing is that I just can't handle bad emotions or worries. But I used to, now I can't bear anything, And when I am calm, I say: why am I not worrying about anything? Am I ok? I don't think that this is being okay or healed, I think that feeling good is when you can experience sadness or anxiety without suffering so hard.
Will I ever be just "sad" or "worried" again? 

[StarChild]

Dear Little Ball

 

Thank you for sharing your story! I can totally relate. I have server Pure OCD and one of its forms of manifestations is ROCD. It is terrible.

 

I am a male 28 year old and I can also relate because I am in Germany doing my PhD and I am suffering from Prozac withdrawal. With the help of this forum I reinstated but my body is still struggling to adjust to the meds. I hurt my ex girlfriend so badly and didn't even know why until my recent crisis and then I did some research and realised that I was suffering from OCD and it was making me have all those thoughts and emotions towards my girlfriend who loved me so much.

 

We need to be strong and focus on recovery together with medication treatment. Check out these resources for help:

• http://theocdstories.com/
• http://coldflyer.com/
• http://mentalpod.com/archives/4614

You can also look at Youtube videos by Stuart Ralph on ROCD and  Chrissie Hogges. 

 

Be strong and hold on!

[littleball]

Hey StarChild, 

thank you for letting me know that we are not alone! From what I've seen, the drugs didn't help at all my obsessive thoughts, so it is good that you're trying to get rid of them.

I read your story and it makes sense, also my ROCD started when I was taking an antibiotic. Maybe it would have showed up anyways, but this means at least that we are very sensitive to substances. 

[bruno2016]

On 10/28/2017 at 4:56 PM, littleball said:

thank you, how do you feel now bruno?

What I noticed is that I am having a wave of depression and obsessions/compulsions, which change their theme over the time. 
The thing is that I just can't handle bad emotions or worries. But I used to, now I can't bear anything, And when I am calm, I say: why am I not worrying about anything? Am I ok? I don't think that this is being okay or healed, I think that feeling good is when you can experience sadness or anxiety without suffering so hard.
Will I ever be just "sad" or "worried" again? 

 

you have to remember that these drugs are all about CHANGE---symptoms change, our bodies change, everything changes. WD from these drugs is no different; you will be changing. The thing to remember is that the worst of symptoms is temporary. Its very hard to get used to and I have been through it all. I too had severe OCD--obsessed about death, disease, etc. These drugs and WD are messing with some very powerful neurochemicals and having an impact on our bodies as well---you never know what will happen or how you will feel or react from these drugs and WD. Thats why I say to have faith, take it slow, and let your body do its job. AS time goes on, the issues will level out. You can also add some things to keep you well like i use--exercise, meditation, supplements, etc. When you take a holistic approach, you can get off and stay off the drugs forever. 

 

I am fine. My life is great. I do still have days of feeling crappy but my mindset is what I told you--my mindset is I know its temporary; i know the nature of life and reality is constantly changing and that i will have better days in the near future. 

[littleball]

Today is really bad. I can feel depression deep in my chest. This evening I am joining some friends that I haven't seen for a while and going to a Halloween party, but I don't feel like to, I think that I won't enjoy it and spend the night in pain. 
I went to the gym yesterday, today I cooked a special meal for my little sister (we live alone, just the two of us), but nothing changes. I feel that the small efforts I make are useless. 

I phoned the doctor yesterday and he said that after my graduation we will start thinking about tapering Prozac, because he said that now I need this to have a living but of course it's doing some damage to me in the meanwhile (not as bad as the Effexor, though).
He was kind of surprised that my mood swings aren't gone, I don't know if he was acting just to not make me worry about too much. He's very nice and empathetic, he's like a beloved uncle to me, but I am still very unsure about my future. 

[littleball]

Ok, I realized that I am in the ovulation days, which explains nausea, headache and brown spotting. The symptoms can be amplified, right?  
I've never noticed that I was "ovulating" before withdrawal.

[Frogie]

On October 19, 2017 at 12:08 AM, littleball said:

Does anyone suffer from bladder or urethral problems and think that they are related to ADs? I am asking especially the ladies. 

I've always had cystitis, not so recurrent though, and it used to be completely different from now: while on Effexor, I developed a chronic pain in the bladder/urethra or permanent muscular tension in that area. I've always thought it was inflammation from E. Coli. and saw many gynecologists and urologists. Sometimes the urine analysis report the presence of bacteria, then I take an antibiotic. But while the infection may go away, the pain never does, actually the pain strengthens for a while after the medications. My GP says it might be related to gastritis or to the nerves in general and labels it as something "psychosomatic", as many others. 

I've been suffering from almost 2 years, no matter how much I drink and always thought it was unrelated to the ADs. But as I wanted to go to another urologist, I started to think about that there would be little that he could do. I have to ask Dr. Fava about this (hoping that he won't tell me "Stop thinking about the symptoms!", haha).
I also have sexual problems and this bladder thing of course worsens the situation.
 

You might want to talk to Junglechicken about this. She has a bladder problem.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[littleball]

On 31/10/2017 at 5:28 PM, Frogie said:

You might want to talk to Junglechicken about this. She has a bladder problem.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

 

Thank you Frogie!!



To all, 

How would you describe your flu-like symptoms?

I don't know if my strange sense of feeling /anxiety could be this kind of symptom. But I must have read in the forum that it is one of the first symptoms to disappear in WD.
I still have it, I used to have it before and now after 8 months quitting. 

 

And my ears are ringing today. MY LIFE IS ALL ABOUT SYMPTOMS. It's so frustrating. 

[Ali4]

I've had all your symptoms and More, there nasty, are you having any windows? Where you feel normal again? Or are you in a constant wave? Ali 

[littleball]

10 minutes ago, Ali4 said:

I've had all your symptoms and More, there nasty, are you having any windows? Where you feel normal again? Or are you in a constant wave? Ali 

Not much windows, a few times I feel normal, especially when my mind is deeply focused into something. I would say I am in a constant but gentle wave, sometimes it gets worse, sometimes it gets better.

[Ali4]

I hope you just get windows soon and no more waves. Slow and steady. Ali 

[littleball]

On 4/11/2017 at 5:50 PM, littleball said:

I don't know if my strange sense of feeling /anxiety could be this kind of symptom. But I must have read in the forum that it is one of the first symptoms to disappear in WD.
I still have it, I used to have it before and now after 8 months quitting. 

I am not sure of this symptom, it's one of the most annoying and it has no particular reason. I had it also while taking Effexor as well as apathy, sorry if I repeat it too many times. I've never had this strange kind of anxiety, it's constant, it's like in the background even if I'm not thinking about something and today it is particularly strong. Is it still WD or is it me? Is it Effexor? I can't beat it.
What about persistent sides after discontinuation then?

[littleball]

So, almost back to square one with depression. Plus, today I had a terrible awakening, nightmares, brain zaps, fear, same old story. 

As you can see two weeks ago I was optimistic, now I am the opposite 

My boyfriend tries to push me to go to the library and complete my thesis but I just can't, I don't want to go to the library and burst into tears. My graduation will be in a month and I still have to write the majority of my thesis. I'm so desperate because of my lack of motivation, no matter how close the graduation gets, I see no reason in writing. I wrote 10 pages in a month and I am supposed to write 70 more in less than a month. 

The environment I'm living in currently is toxic. My father came back home from the place he comes from after two months. He is aggressive and beats my little half-sister (her mother died long time ago nor I can't live with my mother as I explained in one of my threads). They had a fight yesterday and as a result he had his hand dislocated. 

I am still young. Why do I have to endure all this? Am I not supposed to recover in less time since I am still young? I am ruining the best years of my life, the ones you can better enjoy sex, parties, travels, hobbies and stuff. 

[littleball]

I spent a week in Scotland visiting my boyfriend and almost everything went fine. I walked a lot visiting the city without being exhausted or debilitated. But I was being active all the time. As I went home, same old story of feeling uncomfortable, anxious, strange, lazy, etc.

I noticed then that when I am alone with my thoughts and I am not focused, it seems that my symptoms grow indefinitely. When I am around people I enjoy being with, I can forget about withdrawal. Do you feel the same? Is it normal? Will I be able being by myself again?

Also, I can't drink tea anymore. I've just had a cup of green tea and feel like I had two coffees. I am intolerant to coffee, but I have always drunk tea with no problems. I realized this  when I was on holiday and drank plenty of hot tea. 

[bheb]

Hi littleball. I'm also a student dealing with this. Not exactly your symptoms but some terrible depressive/anxious feelings in my chest like you mention. Feeling off and strange.

 

I notice that I am able to distract from my symptoms as well. Especially with a significant other. It's strange since most of my symptoms are physical, so it's not directly distracting my mind. But I guess there's an awareness of your discomfort that can make the discomfort itself worse or worse-feeling.

 

I share your outrage about getting hit with this while young. I think every age group has their specific frustrations with dealing with this. 

[littleball]

Thank you for sharing your experience, bheb! Nice to see that I'm not alone, once again..  you gave me lot of reassurance

43 minutes ago, bheb said:

I notice that I am able to distract from my symptoms as well. Especially with a significant other. It's strange since most of my symptoms are physical, so it's not directly distracting my mind. But I guess there's an awareness of your discomfort that can make the discomfort itself worse or worse-feeling.

This means that our situation is not so desperate, it could have been worse, means that at least we don't lack much of concentration

[littleball]

Today itchiness and burning skin sensations are really bad. 
 

Plus, I have a strange tension in my jaw. I searched info about the jaw pain in the forum and bingo, lots of results. Almost every symptom I have is WD related, then! 
All this after 8 months. I was hoping to be one of the luckiest ones to recover soon, but this is taking too long and who knows what other kinds of symptoms will show up. 
 

I have 3 job interviews set in December, but I feel hopeless I won't be able to work and perform well. Everyone thinks I am smart and brilliant, but what they don't know is that I won't be able to put much effort in what I do, both because of my lack of motivation and because of my malaises. 

 

 

[miT]

Whatever you do, don't take a high-performance job. Withdrawal is real.

I'm having a bad day, writing maybe one line of code per minute. I can afford this at my current job. Go for the most laidback job.

 

Forgive yourself your current weaknesses. We're not here on earth to be productive.

[littleball]

Hello there, short update. 

I finally graduated with maximum grades, I am proud of myself at least!

I still have lots of physical symptoms, but now I am a bit more relaxed, even if I don't enjoy much the time being alone, because I can think too freely... As I have nothing special to do, my obsessions and fears are taking a bit over.

My main concern has been about aging. When I look at people in their 40s-50s-60s I am scared, you know that kind of annoying withdrawal fear I am talking about.  I wish I was always young and that my boyfriend would remain this beautiful = FEAR. The silly thing is that I am 25 and he is 27 and everybody says that we look like 3 years younger.  I think this can relate to the fear of losing him and fear of the future... I love him so much, we're still in the honeymoon phase. 

[nz11]

 

Congratulations on graduating that is an awesome achievement.

 

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 10:33 AM, littleball said:

Dr. Fava says that WD Syndrome lasts 6 months on average. So the 6 months have passed but the improvement are really small, sexuality has not returned and here I see people struggling for YEARS. Should I trust him? Come on, he is one of the leading experts worldwide and one of the first to recognize the problem, but I still don't know.

This simply confirms what I had already suspected and that so called world experts know about the side effects and dependency of these 'poisons' yet know nothing about safe tapering.

This is beyond disappointing. 

 

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 10:33 AM, littleball said:

After a 2 months tapering under his advice

This just makes a mockery of always taper under a doctors supervision. How does anyone stand a chance. Answer: They don't!

We are talking a possible  45 months to taper 150mg under the 10%rule and Fava goes and does it in 2 months. And he is a world expert.

 

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 10:33 AM, littleball said:

My "relapse" happened while I was in Germany

Did Fava call this a relapse ?

This  was withdrawal symptoms kicking in from tapering far too fast and unsafely.

 

Sorry to read you are suffering ROCD. 

 

Personally this is what I think take it or leave it. It is only my opinion.

imo, I feel it is very unfair (on the other party) for a person on psychoactive drugs to START UP romantic relationships with others.

Why - because you are not emotionally available.

Second there is a good chance you could push that person into deep emotional overdraft  (or worse) when you try to get off the drug. 

Thirdly once off the drug you may or may not find yourself deeply damaged in areas that would harm the relationship. And it may or may not resolve in time. 

Fourthly the other party is completely oblivious to what they are about to take on.

Think I am just being a party pooper then the 'relationships ruined by ads' thread may be revealing and worth reading.

 

I wonder what  Fava's intended taper timeframe for the Prozac and benzo is? 

 

So glad you found sa.

 

nz11

 

[littleball]

Hi nz11, 

 

To answer some questions about my doctor... No, Fava never mentioned relapse, as soon as he saw me he said "this is withdrawal", I myself was scared about relapse. He calls Effexor literally "****" so I think that the fast tapering was to protect me from more damaging effects caused by the drug. And to see also how would I react. He talked about 50% probability of incurring in persistent withdrawal syndrome after showing withdrawal symptoms immediately after discontinuing. That was my case sadly, but, as Alto said and I convinced myself about, he definitely knows how to manage WD. I feel safe with him, that's the most important thing. 

 

Also after instating Prozac he said to call him back after a few days to see how I was doing. I think he is aware of potentially adverse reactions or worsening effects caused by drugs changes. This worked for me, hopefully. So that next week we will try to taper Prozac as well. 

3 hours ago, nz11 said:

Second there is a good chance you could push that person into deep emotional overdraft  (or worse) when you try to get off the drug. 

I know this very well, this is why my previous relationship fell apart, even if it would have gone that way in any case. 

[nz11]

7 hours ago, littleball said:

the fast tapering was to protect me from more damaging effects caused by the drug. And to see also how would I react. He talked about 50% probability of incurring in persistent withdrawal syndrome after showing withdrawal symptoms immediately after discontinuing. That was my case sadly, but, as Alto said and I convinced myself about, he definitely knows how to manage WD. I feel safe with him, that's the most important thing. 

 

Also after instating Prozac he said to call him back after a few days to see how I was doing. I think he is aware of potentially adverse reactions or worsening effects caused by drugs changes. This worked for me, hopefully. So that next week we will try to taper Prozac as well. 

 

This is an interesting read.

Well they say you shouldn't taper unless under the supervision of an experienced  medical professional and I guess that is what you are doing..........

All the best, as I say, so glad you have found sa. 

nz11

 

 

 

 

[nz11]

At work today couldn't help but keep thinking I wonder how Fava will taper you off the Prozac.

No doubt in the interests of informed consent and being a reasonable practitioner he would have told you his plan even before he put you on it. 

 

I cant help myself I'm going to have to have a guess or two, always up for a challenge.......

I think he will either, 

1. get you to cut one quarter reduction every two weeks, so off after 8 weeks. He might suggest this is okay because of the long half life and so its self tapering, or

2. He might just get you to reduce by one quarter a week, so off after 4 weeks reasoning being same as in above or for reasons used previously in prior taper.

Then he will need to taper the clonazepam. I think he might just CT that as it might be suggested its a low dose so it doesn't matter.

 

Look forward to the update next week where all will be revealed.

I've decided to double down on option 2.

 

nz11

 

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 10:33 AM, littleball said:

Dr. Fava says that WD Syndrome lasts 6 months on average

Id love to know where he is getting this from.

I wonder if the cohort used to calc the average included people like myself where it lasted something like 6 years.  If outliers like myself were to be removed it would probably only last a day or two!