littleball: I want to go back to what I used to be

[littleball]

6 hours ago, nz11 said:

 

On 13/10/2017 at 11:33 PM, littleball said:

Dr. Fava says that WD Syndrome lasts 6 months on average

Id love to know where he is getting this from.

I wonder if the cohort used to calc the average included people like myself where it lasted something like 6 years.  If outliers like myself were to be removed it would probably only last a day or two!

 I came to him desperate. Think about someone that is in hell and in a bad moment is being told that it will last 6 years. 

Most of the doctors say 2 weeks, don't forget about that. 

 

In any case I will let you know how I will be doing. 

 

 

[nz11]

That would be great if you do.

Please before you follow any advice, do check in to sa to get a second opinion.

 

 

[littleball]

Ok, tomorrow I am seeing the doctor even if for a very small meeting, I hope he will find me better. 

Today I got my very first job interview. Last night I intendedly went to sleep late: I was wasting my time doing online window-shopping. I slept 4 hours and wake up very early to go to Milan. This is no big deal, but I think that when I was doing the interview, even if I was relatively at my ease, I had another panic attack. I don't know how I managed to, thank God or whoever gave me the force, but I disguised it completely. 

Panic attacks and tachycardia, which I never had before, I'm not familiar with them, happen to me when I sleep very little, I found this correlation. Can someone claim it is true? 

[nz11]

Lb how did the meeting go?

 

[littleball]

51 minutes ago, nz11 said:

Lb how did the meeting go?

 

Hi, 

He used this metaphor: I am in a maze and he is in a tower in the middle. I don't know where I'm going, but he does. And he sees lots of improvement. He used three keywords:

-time: as I am moving further and further away from the Effexor experience;

-consciousness: I've become conscious that the strange effects I have on my body and mind are the venlafaxine, not me. This should make me believe in my potential, also because of the recent goals I pursued (I graduated and finished the exams in the worst part of my WD)

-"I believe in you"

 

Maybe you will be disappointed, but he said to start taking Prozac every two days, keep the Klonopin and then in a couple of months to quit Prozac. 

If things start to go wrong, he ensured me that he is here. 

 

He also talked about the crazy censorship about this issue in the media and the scientific literature. 

And he acknowledged that my initial psychotic episode, which led me into this hell in the first place, was because of the acne antibiotic. No one ever did before. I am upset, but also relieved and satisfied. 

 

These are all things that we all learned from our own experience, but it is undoubtedly good that a doctor is aware of all this. 

 

As for the tapering, he may be wrong but... I think he has lots of evidence based experience with WD and if he said to me to go this way, he should be know what he is doing, considering that I am not one of the desperate cases (and neither one case to underestimate, of course). 

 

[nz11]

First of all I just want to say thanks for taking the time to share and update on the meeting.

 

Please don't take it personally if i get a bit critical of Mr Fava. 

I cant help but feel that you are in the maze and he is in the tower in the middle, a tower with no windows.

Some of the things he is saying I find strange.

 

When I made my tapering prediction I thought about predicting skipping doses as an option but I took it off the table crediting him with at least some of the a-b-c's of tapering.

I think  I came close though with my option 2 which was 2 months and then off. Very close.

 

Were you aware that using the 10% taper method to go from 10mg to 0.5 would take approx. 27 months. 

 

1 hour ago, littleball said:

As for the tapering, he may be wrong but... I think he has lots of evidence based experience with WD and if he said to me to go this way, he should be know what he is doing, considering that I am not one of the desperate cases

 

Actually you have already shown that you already are one of his desperate cases by the fact that his previous fast taper resulted in withdrawal symptoms that were unmanageable and resulted in you going back on 2! potent psychoactive drugs to quell the wdl trauma. Drugs which also have serious side effects. Which kind of makes me think  that unless life threatening 'side effects bows the knee to slow tapering not the other way around'.

 

 

You didn't say how you previously tapered ...was it by skipping doses? 

Any mention of when and how he will stop the clonazepam?

 

1 hour ago, littleball said:

if things start to go wrong, he ensured me that he is here

Well I guess its nice to have a supportive sincere doctor.

 

Heres what I think,

If I were you I would to step up and take control of the situation and put together the escape plan. That plan can be based on prior experience, links given to you and others advice from this site. And of course DYOR. 

 

I can tell you right now that no one on this site including the owner is going to agree that skipping doses is an acceptable form of tapering. 

 

Given your prior failed tapering experience do you think that even more caution should be applied this time round?

Sadly  there seems to be the typical doctor sanguiness about the whole thing.

He might be there for you when the custard hits the fan but it will be you who will be the one suffering not him. 

We have all found that we have had to 'DYOR' (do your own research). 

 

Why not make Mr Fava redundant in all things except getting a prescription to ensure your escape plan is executed your way. 

You might be thinking World expert Mr Fava trumps online sites any day. Well here's a quote from another world expert Joseph Glenmullen "every other day dosing should be avoided"

This is in stark contrast to what Fava is saying. They both cant be right, someone has got it wrong.

Furthermore Healy refers people the The Altos SA site for help with tapering. 

 

Of course its up to you, if you want to follow Mr Favas approach then that's your choice. In this game imo feeling safe and happy and acknowledged in someone's presence though is not enough.

We all want to see you off these chemicals (safely). 

Please do keep posting and lets us know what you decide to do. 

Best wishes

nz11

Have I been too nitpicking?...someone recently accused me on here of being too nitpicking. But heres the thing ...the stakes are high.

 

 

 

[nz11]

LB may I  ask what have you decided to do?

...the Fava method?

 

 

[Altostrata]

Why take Prozac every 2 days when you can take half a capsule or tablet every day?

[littleball]

Hello Altostrata ad nz11,

sorry for the delay. 

I don't know why he said every 2 days... Sorry I'm gonna go his way, but I have to write him because I noticed some new brain zaps (and I'm a bit scared). I can say that the risk is little now, do you think so? The point is that Prozac and Effexor are not the same, we may all agree with this. 

[nz11]

Thanks for the update LB.

So are you intending to take Prozac every second day for 2-3 months and then quit it ?

Where are you at currently with the dosing have  you already started  following Favas approach if so you might like to update the drug sig.

Have the new brain zaps started since beginning  this every other day method?

 

nz11

 

 

 

[littleball]

42 minutes ago, nz11 said:

Have the new brain zaps started since beginning  this every other day method?

 

Thank you, too! 

Yes, they started about 2 weeks later... I started this method immediately after talking to him. 

I don't want to induce people to go this method updating the drug signature, anyways I'm going to do it. 

Very poor psychological effects to date, just the brain zaps and the same physical symptoms from Effexor, they are still there. My mood is much stabler now. Lots of fears, but they are starting to scare me less... I re-obtained a bit of motivation.

Now I got a very bad flu, I will tell you better about my WD symptoms as soon as I am better. 

On January I'll start working, this will be the proof: difficulties of life, I will see if they still trigger bad depressive breakdowns. 

[nz11]

okay thanks for updating.

 

Updating the drug sig regardless of taper approach makes it easier for moderators to see at a glance where you are at without reading many intro pages to put the pieces together.

 

Good luck with the job. Hope you feel better soon.

So I guess your plan is to take Prozac every other day and then quit it in Feb I suppose.

Do keep us posted.

nz11

[littleball]

Hello to everybody who's listening, 

 

I have 2 questions: 

 

1. Can somebody make an estimate on how long the paraesthesia effects can last? 

My psychological symptoms are better as well as the sleeping, but brain zaps, pins and needles, burning sensations are still there. 

 

No changes since halving Prozac, as new symptoms I just noticed some annoying low sugar episodes. 

 

2. For my recurrent bladder infections I was prescribed ciprofloxacin. 

 

I took it 2 times (I have taken also levofloxacin and prulifloxacin during the last year) one before discontinuing 

 the Effexor and one in August when I was in WD. 

Now I had an acute infection and after some days i decided to take one tablet of ciproxin without consulting the doctor. 

But I didn't know that it could be really dangerous in some cases, especially for the CNS, and that can cause permanent tendinitis!!!

 

I am so scared, I didn't have bad reactions before, but who knows. I have already started worrying about every sensation I feel on my body, in my leg, wrists and so on. And maybe my nervous symptoms have worsened, I don't know, I feel like they have. 

 

Should I continue? I'd like to stop.   

[nz11]

Hi LB

Sorry to hear of your infection.

12 hours ago, littleball said:

after some days i decided to take one tablet of ciproxin without consulting the doctor

Maybe this is time to consult the doctor.

Maybe you should talk to your doctor about a safer antibiotic option if it is worrying you.

 

How is the Fava taper going ..you must be coming up to the one month about now.

Is this near the time when Fava recommends its safe to stop taking the  Prozac? or does has he suggested take Prozac every 3 days soon?

I'm following this expert in withdrawal with interest.

 

nz11

[littleball]

53 minutes ago, nz11 said:

Is this near the time when Fava recommends its safe to stop taking the  Prozac?

Yes, around this time. I will stop it soon!

By this time, I think he is very knowledgeable, I feel sorry if you are a bit sceptical! But this is my case, of course. 

 

Thanks for reassuring me by the way, I think I won't take it anymore and look for a serious doctor concerning my recurrent bladder infections. 

[scallywag]

littleball, the duration of symptoms is unpredictable. The parasthesia will last as long as it does. Your CNS (central nervous system) is doing its best to heal and restore. Please be gentle with yourself.

[littleball]

18 minutes ago, scallywag said:

littleball, the duration of symptoms is unpredictable. The parasthesia will last as long as it does. Your CNS (central nervous system) is doing its best to heal and restore. Please be gentle with yourself.

 

Thank you! Crossed fingers 

[littleball]

So, I went to the emergency because I was going crazy thinking I was floxed. 

Actually I was just on alert, I was mistaking joint pain for neuropathy. 

Now the pain is gone, but..

I think I've just hit a wave. 

Yesterday I was overwhelmed again by unwanted thoughts and worries. Then I had an hyperactivity peak. At 9 I fell into a strange depression: dizziness, hate for everyone, apathy, weakness, sense of emptiness, not willing to do anything or see anybody, lack of motivation. 

With no reason why, so I think it's withdrawal. 

I think I've found a pattern I observed also while taking the meds: agitation with intrusive and obsessive thoughts followed by depression. Is it me? I don't know. 

 

On Monday I'm starting my very first job, as I told you before many times. I was excited and cheerful, but now... I am worried looking like a zombie on my first day. 

 

I read someone saying that usually there is a wave at 10 months and actually I am around 10 months off Effexor. Do you confirm this fact? I thought everything was unpredictable. 

 

[nz11]

Hi LB

Any update?

Hows the job.

[littleball]

Hello, eventually this week went fine. My last acute episode was short lived (2-3 days) even if it was strong. 

Sadly my malaise in the morning has reappeared, I thought it had gone away forever. 

My symptoms are stable but most of them have not improved significantly in the last few months, I still wait to get rid of them. 

I think next week I will try to stop Prozac. 

 

 

[nz11]

7 hours ago, littleball said:

I think next week I will try to stop Prozac. 

Is that with Favas guidance? Or your own decision?

 

Thanks for the update by the way.

[nz11]

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 12:20 AM, littleball said:

I think next week I will try to stop Prozac. 

 

Bonjourno LB.

Did you stop Prozac under Favas guidance?

 

[nz11]

Bump

[nz11]

Are you ok lb

[Pepita]

On 29.10.2017 at 4:56 AM, littleball said:

What I noticed is that I am having a wave of depression and obsessions/compulsions, which change their theme over the time. 
The thing is that I just can't handle bad emotions or worries. 

Hi there littleball,

I can really relate to sooo many things you are saying!!! In another post you mentioned that you feel like life is unfair and that you have suffered enough. I totally agree and I had exactly those same thoughts just this morning as I am going through hell of an aweful wave (in my first holiday since my wd started because I was feeling so much better already and sincerely thought that it was time). The instant I woke up all my weird chotic thoughts came flushing over me, giving me every bad feeling at once, from fear to sadness, and I got so damn annoyed at the same time thinking "WHY ME" and "haven't I been through enough". Usually I manage to be relatively calm about waves but not in my holiday, not at all, I am in paradise and I feel worse than the last 1,5 years, I am so terribly disappointed:(

So I know exactly what you mean and yes I think that you, me and everyone else in this forum gas deserved better!!!

 

About your quote: my ruminating thoughts change topics also often, it is so annoying/tiresome! Sometimes I think I have to work on a subject with a therapist and if I do- the subject changes. So there you go, the brain is just confused🙄

 

As for the work situation: I agree that if the job requires daily meetings with many people etc. it might be too much for now but if you can work in a more or less quiet environment or even from

home or if you're not in a room with too many people, it might even help you to focus away from withdrawal. Personally I even feel better when I have something to do, work because I can't get mixed up too much in negative thought spirals. 

 

This comment might be not so cheery because right now I feel horrible but I also know that I have gotten so so so much better since wd started, I had already months of windows where I thought "what was wd all about???"

When feeling down we just forget that it gets better as well. sometimes I feel like it's some black magic putting spells on me... like a bad trip and then it lifts again. 

[littleball]

On 1/2/2018 at 2:35 AM, nz11 said:

Are you ok lb

Hello there, I haven't checked in for a while!

So I stopped everything I think a month ago. The situation is stable, but I still can't see the end of my journey.

Brain zaps disappeared almost completely, the stress tolerance improved and the mood swings got slightly better. But malaise (this is the worst of all, for sure), obsessive thoughts, pins and needles and stuff are still there and they seem to be prescheduled during the day. I will soon start a diary to register my pattern. 

No major improvements, I would say. Sometimes I end up thrilling and shivering, like I got too much caffeine. 

 

I don't like my new job, it's all about R&D (research and development), everything seems to be fuzzy, I have no certain task. All I have to do is study scientific literature and figure out some solution. This is not what I wanted for my life, i knew it before, and makes me really insecure, I wanted to to something more practical. I am very demotivated but I attribute this to the meds only partially.

[littleball]

On 1/2/2018 at 8:07 AM, Pepita said:

Personally I even feel better when I have something to do, work because I can't get mixed up too much in negative thought spirals. 

Hi Pepita, I totally agree, I wish I have found something so fascinating that made me forgetting about WD. I hope you've already got through the worst part of it. Best wishes xx 

[littleball]

Hello,

I want to report a new symptom. Eye tremor, it showed up 3 weeks ago, it does not seem to stop, 

 

As for the rest, same old story: malaises, nerve pain, obsessive thoughts, some brain zaps here and there, etc, but I am surviving after all.

 

By this point, I think ADs ruined my life. Every single aspect of my personality turns out to be amplified now. Call it a phase, I don't know. 

 

 

 

[littleball]

In the last few days I've been feeling very bad, that's why maybe I felt the need to come back to the forum. I woke up this morning with a sense of dread, the same feeling I had during the acute phase. I hope this wave of fear and depression won't last too much. 

 

I think my boyfriend doesn't love me. He told me so two weeks ago and than came back to me with regret, asking for a new start. 

This episode made me feel even more insecure and now during my depressive crisis I am afraid he might run away. Actually he said he doesn't want a person like this, always crying for help, he wants a girl who could make it on her own. But I am not. I have suffered too much throughout my life to be the cheerful, independent young woman that he would like to have. And I deserve to find someone who loves me even if I am weak in this particular moment of my life. 

 

I am alone at this world and I see no purpose in my life. I love him, I wish he could love me back the way I am. I want a person who would swim every ocean to stay with me, like I would. I am afraid he is not.  

I think we're coming to an end and this makes me feel even more desperate. 

 

Once again, is it me or is it WD which makes me feel so crazy and insecure about my relationship? I think the blame is on both sides, but... the weakness caused by the ADs has worsened every aspect of my life. 

 

In my first relationship that lasted many years I was dumped for another girl because I was always being depressed for my difficult family situation and for me being prone to sadness. I had not started taking the meds at that time. I am afraid it will always be like this. 

[Lloyd]

Hi LB,

 

Dont be afraid of the relationship ending if thats what ends up happening. 9 years ago mine ended & it allowed me to find my wife (who ive been with for 8 years) & have our first child whom i cherrish greatly. Been best years of my life. Back then I just kept the relationship going because i didnt want to deal with the emotional stress of breaking up. Finally enough was enough and i pulled the pin. My life improved greatly after that.

Im also in WD from effexor. Havent got the depression (yet...) Just anxiety, brain fog and physical symptoms. Have you tried re-instating at any time during withdrawl?

[littleball]

6 hours ago, Lloyd said:

Hi LB,

 

Dont be afraid of the relationship ending if thats what ends up happening. 9 years ago mine ended & it allowed me to find my wife (who ive been with for 8 years) & have our first child whom i cherrish greatly. Been best years of my life. Back then I just kept the relationship going because i didnt want to deal with the emotional stress of breaking up. Finally enough was enough and i pulled the pin. My life improved greatly after that.

Im also in WD from effexor. Havent got the depression (yet...) Just anxiety, brain fog and physical symptoms. Have you tried re-instating at any time during withdrawl?

Hello Lloyd, 

 

Thanks for telling me your experience. Some things are hard to realize. I would break up if I was stronger and less confused, which is also due to the meds. Now I can't trust myself. 

 

As for the reinstatement, my doctor told me to reinstate a small amount of Prozac and then quit everything. If you can endure this situation and going on with your life, you should not reinstate and move one, in my opinion. 

 

[Pepita]

23 hours ago, littleball said:

In the last few days I've been feeling very bad, that's why maybe I felt the need to come back to the forum. I woke up this morning with a sense of dread, the same feeling I had during the acute phase. I hope this wave of fear and depression won't last too much. 

 

I think my boyfriend doesn't love me. He told me so two weeks ago and than came back to me with regret, asking for a new start. 

This episode made me feel even more insecure and now during my depressive crisis I am afraid he might run away. Actually he said he doesn't want a person like this, always crying for help, he wants a girl who could make it on her own. But I am not. I have suffered too much throughout my life to be the cheerful, independent young woman that he would like to have. And I deserve to find someone who loves me even if I am weak in this particular moment of my life. 

 

I am alone at this world and I see no purpose in my life. I love him, I wish he could love me back the way I am. I want a person who would swim every ocean to stay with me, like I would. I am afraid he is not.  

I think we're coming to an end and this makes me feel even more desperate. 

 

Once again, is it me or is it WD which makes me feel so crazy and insecure about my relationship? I think the blame is on both sides, but... the weakness caused by the ADs has worsened every aspect of my life. 

 

In my first relationship that lasted many years I was dumped for another girl because I was always being depressed for my difficult family situation and for me being prone to sadness. I had not started taking the meds at that time. I am afraid it will always be like this. 

Hi there, 

I too had some relationship issues the past months and at first I "blamed" everything on WD. I thought that I was just imagining our issues and that I am over-reacting to everything due to WD. It is really hard to distinguish sometimes and every little thing has so much more impact. It took a while for me until I realized that yes, I am overreacting for sure ...BUT there are issues to be worked on. Sadly life with all it´s problems and what not doesn´t pause when we`re in WD ;( I did cope in a way where I would remind myself constantly that YES, it´s a lot for me at the moment and  my feelings are way over the top BUT I also reminded myself that I was not crazy and that my worries and my anger had a reason and this had to be worked on. I don´t know you two and of course every relationship is different but as far as generally speaking is possible I´d say: If there are issues, but there is enough love, you can work on it - even if it means doing couples counseling but if it´s some sort of co-dependent relationship where the reasons you´re still together ist NOT love, but fear or something else - it will be easier if it ends, as sad as it might be in the beginning. Like Lloyd said...being with someone when it doesn't really work out can be very stressful tool. I truly hope that you can find your way and that his situation will be getting better soon:) Talk to him, tell him what you feel but do it as rational as possible:) That way he doesn´t have that "she is all so emotional and I can't handle that".

[littleball]

7 hours ago, Pepita said:

Hi there

Thank You Pepita, I think I will print your amazing reply ❤ so mature and clear, I agree with every part of it! I think there is love, even if he said there's not and he can't say he loves me. Oh god, while writing I am thinking "how can you be so naive and blinded, he told you the opposite" and it hurts so bad. 

Anyway I am overreacting of course, perhaps more than I used to do in the past. 

 

So I would like to ask: has your ability to endure bad emotions improved lately? It's very difficult to make the distinction, you said. 

 

From my side, I somatize everything, the physical reaction lasts ages and I can't think clearly, I have no self control. 

[Pepita]

13 hours ago, littleball said:

Thank You Pepita, I think I will print your amazing reply ❤ so mature and clear, I agree with every part of it! I think there is love, even if he said there's not and he can't say he loves me. Oh god, while writing I am thinking "how can you be so naive and blinded, he told you the opposite" and it hurts so bad. 

Anyway I am overreacting of course, perhaps more than I used to do in the past. 

 

So I would like to ask: has your ability to endure bad emotions improved lately? It's very difficult to make the distinction, you said. 

 

From my side, I somatize everything, the physical reaction lasts ages and I can't think clearly, I have no self control. 

I am glad I could help a little:))) 
About your question "has my ability to endure bad emotions improved": depends if I am in a wave or in a window;) When I am in a window I´d say I have improved even over the way I was reacting to emotional stress BEFORE I started Antidepressants. When I´m in a wave I guess it is similar to your experience. Physical reactions last long and everything has a huge impact. But i´d say the ability to ride those waves have gotten better. Everytime I can feel my thoughts going crazy and my emotions jumping up high and down very low I start analyzing myself objectively (or at least the most objective I can be) and tell myself that my mind and body is reacting this way for a reason and that this does´t mean that I am crazy..only that my reactions are extreme and if I am aware of that I can do a lot about it:)) 

 

Also I wanted to mention that when I am wavy, I also get extreme reactions to happy excitement...for example: If I am going on a trip for the weekend, visiting a few people I haven´t seen in a while and I am really happy to see them again - I get headaches very easily, extremely over the top excited and then - as a result extremely tired and emotional  Great. HAHA

 

[Audrey88]

I'm sorry your going through so much , I know how hard and confusing all your thoughts and feelings can be when your going through this, I too would cry all the time and feel guilty because my boyfriend would have to see me like that . I'm sure it will get better day by day, mine has , I notice it gets a little easier if you just push through it. One thing that has really helped me is seeing a therapist and letting all my thoughts and emotions out. If you have any questions I'm here for you.

[littleball]

 

On 5/13/2018 at 12:00 AM, Audrey88 said:

I'm sorry your going through so much , I know how hard and confusing all your thoughts and feelings can be when your going through this, I too would cry all the time and feel guilty because my boyfriend would have to see me like that . I'm sure it will get better day by day, mine has , I notice it gets a little easier if you just push through it. One thing that has really helped me is seeing a therapist and letting all my thoughts and emotions out. If you have any questions I'm here for you.

Thank you Audrey, hope you are doing fine