☼ RealMe: fighting depression/withdrawal from Abilify, Trintellix now on Prozac

[RealMe]

Can anyone direct me to the crossover link?  How to change from pills to liquid? I can't find it.  Thank you.

[Happy2Heal]

Hi

I went thru something very similar with getting the liquid meds for my taper and I can tell you a way that should work to get the dr to RX more refills so you can do your taper slower.

 

 

Wait til the time when you are first supposed to taper.  Pretend that you have done what the Dr told you to do.

OR wait til the second taper date, whichever you feel more comfortable doing.

 

Report to the dr that you were doing well on the dose you started out at (9mgs, correct?) and that going down to the dose he suggested has made you feel just awful, so you wish to stay on "x" dose longer. Tell him that you want to keep things as stable as possible, that there's been too many changes (in your life, or whatever, probably don't mention changes in drugs or they might get defensive)
tell them that you're VERY SENSITIVE to small changes, and you don't know why but this is the way it is. 

if they give you the BS line that "it shoudn't cause you so much trouble" you could try acting offended and say, well I don't know about "should", I'm telling you this is what is happening, are you doubting me?? "

if you think you can pull that off without getting as angry as I probably would lol

or you can say, something like, well everyone is different and apparently now I am super sensitive to small changes, maybe it's my age.

You have to really speak up for yourself and sometimes bend the truth in such a way to get what you need.
It "shouldn't" be this way, but since it is, you need to do what will protect your healthy and well being.

 

tell them you NEED the liquid because it would not be possible to get the exact same dose in a pill. Tell him that you think you're having trouble because of your age (worked for me, and if they look at the drug info from the manufacturer, it's usually true that 'geriatric' patients need less of a drug) Tell him it has to be the liquid so you can keep a steady dose, you're very afraid or concerned of what might happen if you change the dose at all now.

 

accept an Rx for the full amount and keep doing your taper, without mentioning it to your prescriber.

let them think that you "need" the drug, they'll be so happy to be "right" they'll give you what you want.

 

from there on, say you're doing great on that dose and that dont' want to rock the boat, and need to keep things stable. 

I find using buzz words like "stable" and "concerned about what might happen" help. Also the stuff about being sensitive, that's another useful term to toss in there. they are bound to have heard of pts that are more sensitive than others.

 Many docs are concerned about lawsuits and using those kinds of words helps remind them that "things may happen" that they might be blamed for...

Don't ever say that, of course, but it helps to drop a very very vague hint, or more of a reminder, by using certain words.

 

I had the same thing happen, Doc said: "you want to taper, ok fine, you get two month's worth and that's it, I was also told to cut the dose in half, then half again, then take it every other day, then stop"

I think part of it was that THEY didn't want to take the time to supervise a long taper. They didn't want to be bothered. It messes up their paperwork, and makes more work for them overall. Stupid, I know but I think this may be part of the reason they want you to go off so fast. :/

and as nz said, I think the asshats KNOW this is going to make you sick, throw you into acute WD and just don't care, or.......?!? why they want to keep us medicated is beyond me.

I guess they fear losing patients if we aren't coming to them for drugs or for expensive interventions.

why they are against a slower taper, that makes no sense at all.

 

 

PS make sure you say that the dose you felt the best on and wish to stay at, is not equal to a dose that you can get in pill form. I was given 5 mgs tablets and told to cut those in half to take my 2.5mgs so I had to say that I was on a slightly lower dose, 2 mgs or something, I forget, and that it wasn't possible to get that from cutting the tablets.

again mention stability, sensitivity to changes and wanting to avoid something even worse from happening... it helps.
It's absurd that we have to do this, I know.

[RealMe]

1 hour ago, Happy2Heal said:

again mention stability, sensitivity to changes and wanting to avoid something even worse from happening... it helps.
It's absurd that we have to do this, I know.

I carefully read your suggestions on how to talk to my physician, and I will certainly use them.  I have enough to stabilize for about 7 months now although I'm a little nervous about the accuracy of my syringe.  I will read them again before I speak to the doctor in a month and will be very careful not to give the impression that I am following "my own" "10% reduction -- hold -- do not alternate" plan.  Your writing is buoying me up so much.  I guess the most distracting and comforting thing for me is to read about hope. I like the success stories and wish there were more of them, but I guess it's true that mentally, or should we say "physically and emotionally," recovered people are less likely to hang out on internet forums about recovery from AD's and depression.

 

I'm currently reading a good book, Lost Connections:  Uncovering the Real Causes of Depression by Johann Hari.  I saw him on tv the other night and ordered his book on kindle.  Pretty insightful.

 

My husband and I are driving from Long Island to Florida to visit my sisters soon.  I'm anxious about them noticing my symptoms and my reactions to the symptoms during my stay, but I am going to think positive and hope for the best.  Wanting not to upset them will hopefully motivate me to try my best.  They are both very active women.  A short time ago I wouldn't even have attempted this trip, so that is a positive.

Fondly,

RM

 

[Kristine]

On 09/02/2018 at 6:41 PM, ChessieCat said:

If you still have some of the "original" Prozac it may be a good idea to do a cross over.  For example, a few days on 3/4 original + 1/4 new, a few days on 1/2 + 1/2 then a few days on 1/4 original + 3/4 new.  That way your system can adjust gradually to the change in drug formulation.

Hey RM,  This is what ChessieCat suggested about crossover on my thread. Love K xo

[RachelSusan]

Hi RealMe,

What Happy2Heal suggested is the perfect way to approach the doctor.  Happy2Heal said it better than I ever could.  Good luck with your taper. 

RS

[RealMe]

2 hours ago, RachelSusan said:

Hi RealMe,

What Happy2Heal suggested is the perfect way to approach the doctor.  Happy2Heal said it better than I ever could.  Good luck with your taper. 

RS

Thank you very much, RachelSusan.  Yes, you are so right.  I'm going to study Happy2Heal's dialog script a few times before I speak to him again.  I also got some more great coaching from nz11 and others on this forum!  I can't believe how difficult it is to manage the mental health or even the general health care system on your own!  I've got so many new friends behind me.

I remember asking the first psychiatrist about the first AD I ever took, "is it addictive?  Are there side effects?"  He said, "not addictive.  Side effects--possibly a little weight gain and dry mouth."  Hah!

[RealMe]

I'm on my second day of 8.1 mg. or 2 mL of liquid fluoxetine, tapered down from my last hold of 9 mg. for almost 6 weeks.  I'm having a good day.  My tinnitus is there, but it is not bothering me as much as it usually does.  I have tremors as usual and the alternating hot and cold temperatures (especially my feet), but I dressed in layers.  I had a little more energy today and actually got my hair done.  In a couple of days, on Valentine's Day, my husband and I are driving to Florida to visit my sisters.  I hope I can be "normal."  Today I'm hopeful that I will be.  Thanks to my supportive healing friends on SA, the loneliness piece of my depression (as described by Johann Hari in his book Lost Connections:  The Real Cause of Depression) is being treated.  

[Downbutnotout]

Good for you. I hope it works out for you. Maybe having control over your situation and being empowered helped you. Plus, you titrated down from you meds sensibly. 

[Littlegrandma]

That is great RM. You sound good!

its going to get better and better. 

xx Lg

[wantrelief]

Such great news, RM...it must be good to know you can have a day like today! 

[RealMe]

12 hours ago, Littlegrandma said:

That is great RM. You sound good!

its going to get better and better. 

xx Lg

 

11 hours ago, wantrelief said:

Such great news, RM...it must be good to know you can have a day like today! 

Thank you both!

 

[Rosetta]

Happy for you, RM.

[RealMe]

1 hour ago, Rosetta said:

Happy for you, RM.

Thanks, Rosetta.  I confess I almost always follow a window with a really tough day.  I won't go into the gory details, but hopefully it means healing in the bigger picture.  How are you doing?  Help me get my mind off myself!

xo

RM

[Rosetta]

Hi, I'm ok! I've had a few days of low anxiety, and, like you, I'm expecting to pay the piper soon.  

 

We've had two days of cool weather here after having "Summer in February" last week.  It feel like Fall now.  I can smell wood burning stoves and no one picks up the Sycamore leaves in the park.  So, I can walk down the paths and pretend it's Fall.  It's nice.

 

The loneliness part is tough especially when we can't make plans without the risk of canceling them.  It is very nice to have this community here, isn't it?  Everyone understands that we don't feel well, but no one dragged themselves out some place just to get a message that says, "I can't make it.  WD ya know.  Sorry!  Next time?"  

 

My daughter is sick again!  She had a headache after school and taking a nap now.  She never takes naps -- never unless she's sick.  I hope she can make it to her Valentine's Day celebration at school tomorrow. She had the flu the second week of Januray, pink eye the first week of February and now whatever this is.  My husband seems to have it, too. 

 

Overall, I've had three days break from the high anxiety, and I'm very grateful that I was able to enjoy them before getting sick.

 

Rosetta

[Gridley]

R,

 

Very sorry about your daughter. 

 

I am very similar to you regarding social events,  My wife (who is very supportive of what must seem to be my bizarre symptoms) is one of the heads of a local village animal rescue/spay-neuter campaign.  Tomorrow is the annual fundraiser.  To help out, I will have to be down there (off the mountain) for 12 hour.   Eek.

I will be glad when it is tomorrow this time.  More anxiety than usual today but not too terrible,

[RealMe]

24 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

The loneliness part is tough especially when we can't make plans without the risk of canceling them.  It is very nice to have this community here, isn't it?  Everyone understands that we don't feel well, but no one dragged themselves out some place just to get a message that says, "I can't make it.  WD ya know.  Sorry!  Next time?"  

 

My daughter is sick again!  She had a headache after school and taking a nap now.  She never takes naps -- never unless she's sick.  I hope she can make it to her Valentine's Day celebration at school tomorrow. She had the flu the second week of Januray, pink eye the first week of February and now whatever this is.  My husband seems to have it, too. 

 

Overall, I've had three days break from the high anxiety, and I'm very grateful that I was able to enjoy them before getting sick.

 

Rosetta

Hope your daughter and husband feel better soon.  My granddaughters both had strep throat, but are doing ok now.  This has been a bad year for flu and other sicknesses.  I have been phobic about catching anything, and I was never like that.  I just can't handle any more symptoms!

 

So glad you have had a break from high anxiety, and pray it continues for you!

RealMe

[RealMe]

tinnitus presently disturbing but not severe

dystonia and tremors disturbing but not severe

anxiety low grade

anhedonia

low energy, lassitude

excessive sleeping but improvement noted

waking up 5-6 x during night, not able (willing?) to get up in am

eating "clean"

 

In general, I sense an overall improvement.  I have hope.  Holding past 9 days at 2 mL (8.1 mg.) fluoxetine

 

[Littlegrandma]

Nice RM

im happy for you. 🤗

[RealMe]

6 hours ago, Littlegrandma said:

Nice RM

im happy for you. 🤗

Thanks, Littlegrandma!  Love the hugs! xo

[Downbutnotout]

7 hours ago, RealMe said:

tinnitus presently disturbing but not severe

dystonia and tremors disturbing but not severe

anxiety low grade

anhedonia

low energy, lassitude

excessive sleeping but improvement noted

waking up 5-6 x during night, not able (willing?) to get up in am

eating "clean"

 

In general, I sense an overall improvement.  I have hope.  Holding past 9 days at 2 mL (8.1 mg.) fluoxetine

 

Good for you!  Having hope is half the battle. 

[DMV64]

RealMe,

I was just reading in your thread about your mornings, Mine are the same in this taper off antipsychotics. I also dread going to bed usually feeling better, and knowing morning is coming. Somedays I do not know how I do it.

[Kristine]

10 hours ago, RealMe said:

In general, I sense an overall improvement.  I have hope.  Holding past 9 days at 2 mL (8.1 mg.) fluoxetine

Hey RM,  I know things are far from perfect but I'm so pleased you have felt an improvement since your last taper of the fluoxetine. I am so happy for you! Love and hugs K xo

[Ogres]

23 hours ago, RealMe said:

tinnitus presently disturbing but not severe

dystonia and tremors disturbing but not severe

anxiety low grade

anhedonia

low energy, lassitude

excessive sleeping but improvement noted

waking up 5-6 x during night, not able (willing?) to get up in am

eating "clean"

 

In general, I sense an overall improvement.  I have hope.  Holding past 9 days at 2 mL (8.1 mg.) fluoxetine

 

Hi RealMe, 

Glad to hear that you're noticing some improvements! However small, it's still progress. I admire your positive attitude as it takes courage to avoid focusing on the bad things. There is hope indeed! Best wishes to you!

[AliG]

Hi RM. Your patience and learning seems to be having a very positive effect ~ well done. I would keep holding  ~  for now.

[RealMe]

16 hours ago, DMV64 said:

RealMe,

I was just reading in your thread about your mornings, Mine are the same in this taper off antipsychotics. I also dread going to bed usually feeling better, and knowing morning is coming. Somedays I do not know how I do it.

Hi DMV64,

Thanks for responding to my thread.  The contact with others going through this recovery process means so much to me.  It keeps me going.  I know exactly what you mean about "somedays" we don't know how we do it!  As long as we keep on keeping on...I trust we will get better.  I looked at your medication signature and notice that you and I went through the big pharma wringer in 2017!  So many brain altering chemicals.  None of them helped me, and I remind myself of that every day as I deal with my current symptoms, some of them side effects of the very drugs that were supposed to help me.  At the end of all of this, I don't expect to be "cured" of what brought me into psychiatry land, but I do intend to try anything and everything to do so.  I'm going to find your thread because it looks like we share a lot of things in common.  I see you are from Philadelphia...Fly Eagles Fly!

xo RM

[RealMe]

1 hour ago, Ogres said:

Hi RealMe, 

Glad to hear that you're noticing some improvements! However small, it's still progress. I admire your positive attitude as it takes courage to avoid focusing on the bad things. There is hope indeed! Best wishes to you!

Hi Ogres,

So wonderful to have your support.  How are you doing?  How are things at work these days?  I have to check your thread for updates.

xo RM

[DMV64]

3 minutes ago, RealMe said:

Fly Eagles Fly!

Hey thanks for that! I am originally from Brooklyn but now really feel like I live here! I am glad to have met you, and yes, through the WRINGER. At the end of this I would like to be free, but accept that I might just be LESS.

[RealMe]

1 hour ago, AliG said:

Hi RM. Your patience and learning seems to be having a very positive effect ~ well done. I would keep holding  ~  for now.

Thank you for your guidance, Ali.  I was lost on my own (with my mental health care providers).  Maybe you can help me with this.  I have been having a metallic taste, and my tongue is red and irritated.  I think it is a side effect of the liquid fluoxetine.  I'm tempted to switch over to the tablets for a couple of days, but I only have a few left.  Right now, I'm trying to stay the course.

[AliG]

To be honest, I wouldn't bother changing anything as it's just not worth it ~ metallic, irritated tongue? It's manageable and not necessarily a huge problem ~ I would stay the course and stick to the program. It seems to be having a positive effect. 

[RealMe]

7 hours ago, AliG said:

To be honest, I wouldn't bother changing anything as it's just not worth it ~ metallic, irritated tongue? It's manageable and not necessarily a huge problem ~ I would stay the course and stick to the program. It seems to be having a positive effect. 

ok, will do.  Thanks, Ali!

 

[wantrelief]

Hi RM!  Thanks for stopping by my thread!  I wanted to check-in and see how you are doing.  Let me know when you get a chance.

[Ogres]

On 2/20/2018 at 3:16 PM, RealMe said:

Hi Ogres,

So wonderful to have your support.  How are you doing?  How are things at work these days?  I have to check your thread for updates.

xo RM

Hi RealMe,

thanks for asking, it's a bit quieter at work.

I'm depressed, but my depression normally lifts towards the end of the week. Guessing this is normal for a lot of people who are not on AD and who go to work to pay the bills.

I'm wondering whether it's a sign that something needs changing and I should look for other opportunities. It fills me with dread imagining that I'll be in the same office till the day I retire. Like a small cog in the big machine. I used to love what I do, because it was challenging. I came from another country and needed to survive and to prove that I’m good enough. But now it feels like I have arrived at a plateau, with no plan where to go next. It’s hard to leave this relative stability for something unknown. But I know that I just need to do this first step eventually otherwise I’ll go mad. “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving”.

But for now I'll stick with my job for some time while I’m recovering as tolerance to stress is too low…

Will be updating my thread at 1.5 years off AD mark soon, but just wanted to mention briefly couple of achievements. I was able to fall asleep after 4 pints of beer and after intense cardio session. Not on the same day J. It was not a perfect or long enough sleep, but sleep anyway. Hopefully it’s a sign.  

Positive vibes and best wishes to you, my friend!    

[RealMe]

On 2/22/2018 at 10:34 AM, Ogres said:

I'm depressed, but my depression normally lifts towards the end of the week. Guessing this is normal for a lot of people who are not on AD and who go to work to pay the bills.

I'm wondering whether it's a sign that something needs changing and I should look for other opportunities. It fills me with dread imagining that I'll be in the same office till the day I retire. Like a small cog in the big machine. I used to love what I do, because it was challenging. I came from another country and needed to survive and to prove that I’m good enough. But now it feels like I have arrived at a plateau, with no plan where to go next. It’s hard to leave this relative stability for something unknown.

 

Hi Ogres,

My husband and I have been visiting my sisters and brothers-in-law in Florida.  The weather is beautiful, and my sisters didn't let on if they think I am depressed.  So either I've been ok, or they are just not letting on.  They are so cheerful, upbeat and active; it's a little hard to keep up with them.  I'm glad they didn't plan parties and get-togethers like they usually do, so it was pretty relaxing.  We spent time at the beach and hanging around.  We got to see some rehabilitated sea turtles being released back into the ocean which was pretty cool.

 

I've been thinking about what you said about your job and how you feel about it.  I think you are onto something important about the way you feel being "a sign that something needs changing."  I remember being at quite a few stressful, dead-end jobs for "relative stability."  Whenever I could convince myself that my feet weren't nailed to the floor and that I could actually leave whenever I wanted, I would feel some relief; but it didn't last.  There's a lot more to my employment story; but ultimately, I found my best job teaching high school English.  (In my early years, I couldn't do it because of my drinking and valium and nerves). Later, I did; and what an empowering difference it makes to have a job that's never boring.

 

However, then something terrible happened to one of our children; and after several years without alcohol or valium or ADs, I bought into the chemical imbalance theory and agreed to take prozac which kept increasing over the years.

 

About five years ago, my brother died from acute alcoholism; and I failed a very rigorous professional course that I had put a great deal of time and effort into.  I wasn't able to cope with the grief or the "failure."  The 80 mg. of prozac wasn't "working"; and after a few different med trials, the psychiatrist prescribed abilify and trintellix for "treatment resistant major depression and general anxiety."  Looking back, it was ludicrous that I wasn't counseled to take a leave of absence, wean off the prozac and get help with my grief at losing my brother and having a temporary career setback.  I took meds and retired!!!!  Of course, hindsight is 20-20.

 

I'm sure there are emotional or situational reasons I depress today that have nothing to do with an "abnormal brain or chemical imbalance," but I don't know what they are because I can't see what I can't see.  But I'm sure hoping I can find out how to cope without ADs.  And I hope these withdrawal symptoms improve.

On 2/22/2018 at 10:34 AM, Ogres said:

I know that I just need to do this first step eventually otherwise I’ll go mad.

 

What would the first step be for you?  Well, I am on your team, dear Ogres.  Just remember, your feet are not nailed to the floor.  You've got this.

 

xo RM

 

[RealMe]

Tinnitus is still my major complaint, and it makes me very down.  I really do try all the suggestions I can find.  I wonder if I would be this depressed and anxious if I had more improvement in that symptom.  I have experienced pockets of time where it wasn't as godawful, and that keeps me going.  I spend a lot of time distracting with tv and computer.  For the past few days, I have been able to get up earlier and stay awake.  We have been on vacation and I've had to rally which I obviously can do if I'm motivated enough externally.  My appetite is normal.  I'm still waking up several times during the night, no matter whether I go to bed early or late.  I'm getting so soft from not being physically active enough.  I find I am still zoning out when people talk to me, but I think I am listening and concentrating a little better.  Sometimes while people are talking, I am wondering how they can feel so interested in what they're saying.  That is often followed by getting down on myself for being so wrapped up in myself.  I am working hard on getting my head out of my own head.  The dystonia is still present as are the tremors in my voice and hands, but even my husband agreed today that the dystonia has improved!  I don't talk a lot about my symptoms with him, but I usually give him an earful about once a day.  My personal hygiene and my general appearance have improved.  I care a lot about people on this forum, and being able to care about something outside of myself and my symptoms is big progress.

[Kristine]

16 minutes ago, RealMe said:

Tinnitus is still my major complaint, and it makes me very down.  I really do try all the suggestions I can find.  I wonder if I would be this depressed and anxious if I had more improvement in that symptom.  I have experienced pockets of time where it wasn't as godawful, and that keeps me going.  I spend a lot of time distracting with tv and computer.  For the past few days, I have been able to get up earlier and stay awake.  We have been on vacation and I've had to rally which I obviously can do if I'm motivated enough externally.  My appetite is normal.  I'm still waking up several times during the night, no matter whether I go to bed early or late.  I'm getting so soft from not being physically active enough.  I find I am still zoning out when people talk to me, but I think I am listening and concentrating a little better.  Sometimes while people are talking, I am wondering how they can feel so interested in what they're saying.  That is often followed by getting down on myself for being so wrapped up in myself.  I am working hard on getting my head out of my own head.  The dystonia is still present as are the tremors in my voice and hands, but even my husband agreed today that the dystonia has improved!  I don't talk a lot about my symptoms with him, but I usually give him an earful about once a day.  My personal hygiene and my general appearance have improved.  I care a lot about people on this forum, and being able to care about something outside of myself and my symptoms is big progress.

Hey RM,  I wish this tinnitus would ease for you...I can only begin to imagine how distressing it is for you.  It would make perfect sense that your anxiety and depression are  exasperated by this relentless symptom.  Overall your update is very postitive and encouraging. Normal appetite, listening and concentration a little better, dystonia has improved and personal hygiene and general appearance have improved....the very fact that you are able to recognise and write about these improvements show a positive shift in your thinking.  I believe this is one of the hardest hurdles to overcome. I also care a lot about people on this forum...you are one of these special people to me.  You are definitely showing many signs of big process! YAH!!!  Love and Hugs K xo

[wantrelief]

1 hour ago, RealMe said:

Tinnitus is still my major complaint, and it makes me very down.  I really do try all the suggestions I can find.  I wonder if I would be this depressed and anxious if I had more improvement in that symptom.  I have experienced pockets of time where it wasn't as godawful, and that keeps me going.  I spend a lot of time distracting with tv and computer.  For the past few days, I have been able to get up earlier and stay awake.  We have been on vacation and I've had to rally which I obviously can do if I'm motivated enough externally.  My appetite is normal.  I'm still waking up several times during the night, no matter whether I go to bed early or late.  I'm getting so soft from not being physically active enough.  I find I am still zoning out when people talk to me, but I think I am listening and concentrating a little better.  Sometimes while people are talking, I am wondering how they can feel so interested in what they're saying.  That is often followed by getting down on myself for being so wrapped up in myself.  I am working hard on getting my head out of my own head.  The dystonia is still present as are the tremors in my voice and hands, but even my husband agreed today that the dystonia has improved!  I don't talk a lot about my symptoms with him, but I usually give him an earful about once a day.  My personal hygiene and my general appearance have improved.  I care a lot about people on this forum, and being able to care about something outside of myself and my symptoms is big progress.

You sound good, RM!  I too wish that the tinnitus would give you a break.  It is good to know that there have been times when it has been better so I am hopeful this means it will get better in time.....I wish sooner rather than later.  It is really hard to concentrate when you are feeling poorly so I think it is a good sign that you are finding yourself more able to do this. I wanted you to know that I was happy to read of your improvements and I know there will be more to come down the road.