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DaveB: Trying to stop a roller coaster year

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DaveB
1 hour ago, brassmonkey said:

Sorry to say it, but there is a good chance it may happen.  There's also a reasonable chance that it won't.  These drugs are extremely unpredictable as to how people react on an individual level.  The best we can do is talk in terms of overall trends when trying to predict the future.  There are so many little variables that can affect things.  Some people make a lot of large changes with no problems but then have a glass of wine and end up suffering for months. Others take one pill for the first time and suffer for months trying to recover.  People getting blindsided by symptoms at around three months is a well documented phenomena and one of the primary reasons we stress the idea of making small orderly cuts.  Personally I wouldn't expect it to happen, but not be too surprised if it does.  Trying to second guess symptoms is a good way to trigger an anxiety spiral.  It always works out better to try to be prepared for what ever happens and roll with what ever comes along then to worry about what might happen.

Shoot, well I was seeing some improvements and was hoping it would mean I was stabilizing, I guess I won’t get my hopes up too high.

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DaveB
On 11/29/2017 at 4:22 PM, Gridley said:

As advised previously, because of the many recent changes in your drugs and dosages, you should not make any changes at this time.   It can take months to stabilize.  More switches can further destabilize your system.

 

On 11/15/2017 at 3:43 PM, ChessieCat said:

Hi Dave and welcome to SA from me too.

 

 

On 12/3/2017 at 7:46 PM, brassmonkey said:

Sorry to say it, but there is a good chance it may happen.  There's also a reasonable chance that it won't.  These drugs are extremely unpredictable as to how people react on an individual level.  The best we can do is talk in terms of overall trends when trying to predict the future.  There are so many little variables that can affect things. 

 

So...if I would have written this post a week ago (last Monday) I would have been talking about how I have stabilized and I was feeling somewhere between 60-80% of my "normal" self. However after a really good, Sunday - Wednesday last week, I have slowly gotten worse to where now I feel my anxiety is as bad as it has ever been. I am almost a month into holding at 40mgs of Paxil and 2.5 mgs of Zyprexa. I changed NOTHING last week, so why is this happening? So frustrating, shouldn't I be slowly getting more stable, not the opposite? I just am sick of feeling this anxiety and want to be myself again, I found my old Zoloft prescription from November of last year (the one I filled, but never took at 50mgs cause I felt I didn't need them anymore). Has this one decision of quitting Zoloft at 50mgs cold turkey permanently ruined my life? I am so worried my wife will leave me as she has been on this roller coaster with me this year and there is nothing she can do to stop it or control it. I have tried to put on a brave face and not show on the outside my inner turmoil to try to shield her and the kids from it, but it is so hard.

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Madeleine

It seems the symptoms affect us in "waves" and "windows" -- sometimes with no rhyme or reason.    You mentioned that you had 4 days feeling good, so you had a window...  
Those are often followed by a wave, which you are in now.   I do think that anxiety and worry can exacerbate the symptoms, so try not to worry.  When you are going through a wave, just try to ride it through and hold on to positive thoughts that things will improve.  Think back to when you felt better, and have faith that you will feel like that again.

When you are feeling better, give your wife a bit of extra attention. Treat her special when you can.  When you are feeling bad, try not to burden her too much with how you are feeling during a wave, come here and share instead.

 

Best wishes,


M.

 

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DaveB
17 hours ago, Madeleine said:

It seems the symptoms affect us in "waves" and "windows" -- sometimes with no rhyme or reason.    You mentioned that you had 4 days feeling good, so you had a window...  
Those are often followed by a wave, which you are in now.   I do think that anxiety and worry can exacerbate the symptoms, so try not to worry.  When you are going through a wave, just try to ride it through and hold on to positive thoughts that things will improve.  Think back to when you felt better, and have faith that you will feel like that again.

When you are feeling better, give your wife a bit of extra attention. Treat her special when you can.  When you are feeling bad, try not to burden her too much with how you are feeling during a wave, come here and share instead.

 

Best wishes,


M.

 

 

Thanks Madeleine, I appreciate the support and advice. I guess I just keep holding and hope for the best. I think having a "window" can make the "wave" feel worse than maybe it actually is. Like feeling good again gives too high of expectations if that makes sense. 

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Madeleine

It can make it feel worse, depending on how you approach it and what your thoughts are about it.   Maybe try to accept that there are rainy and sunny days, and when you have a rainy day, don't let it get you down, just do what you can when it rains -- e.g. stay inside, read a book quietly, etc. and have faith that the rain will end and the sun will shine again...

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DaveB
On 12/12/2017 at 11:51 AM, Madeleine said:

It can make it feel worse, depending on how you approach it and what your thoughts are about it.   Maybe try to accept that there are rainy and sunny days, and when you have a rainy day, don't let it get you down, just do what you can when it rains -- e.g. stay inside, read a book quietly, etc. and have faith that the rain will end and the sun will shine again...

 

Thanks, Madeleine, my recurring thought is that I will NEVER stabilize on this stuff because I am on a different drug than the one I took for 8 years. I am almost a year into this crazy anxiety (more than a year since my Zoloft CT) and I just want some relief! Is it possible to stabilize on a different med? Is that really the best course of action? I just am not feeling improvements which is SO frustrating. 

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DaveB

Since I didn’t have any withdrawal symptoms until trying the Zoloft again in February, could it be that I am prolonging my suffering indefinitely by continuing to take an SSRI after an adverse reaction? I just don’t get it, why can’t I stabilize? Been on the same dose of everything for almost a month now, feeling really bad right now. Also, usually strenuous exercise has really helped me to get a few hours of feeling normal, the last few times I have done this, it has seemed to somewhat trigger a wave. Isn’t exercise supposed to be the best thing for anxiety?

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DaveB

I think am starting to stabilize! Seems like I am getting a really good window about every other day, then kind of a grind it out day, followed by another good one. Weird...right? I have seen that this site recommends tapering the "activating" SSRI (in my case Paxil) before a "brakes" medication like Zyprexa. Is this ALWAYS the case? I think I would rather get off the Zyprexa 1st as I am on a really low dose, the side effect profile frightens me, and to be honest I am sick of the weight gain. I am NOT doing ANY tapering for many months as I hope to stabilize much more, but wondering if I could try to get off Zyprexa 1st when the time comes.

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brassmonkey

Hi Dave-- I'm so glad to see that you're stabilizing and aren't going to rush things.  The suggestions we make are recommendations only and in the end its all up to the person making the taper to decide which direction to go.  The reason we recommend to take the breaks off first is because as the activating load decreases the breaks tend to take over and make them feel sluggish and lack motivation and the symptoms generally get in the way of tracking how the other taper is going.  However, I think a staggered taper might be a better option.  40mg of paxil is a very large dose, and from the sert loading charts anything over 20mg is basically wasted because it has very little "clinical" effect on the body.  But it does have a very large physical effect.  It would only take six or seven tapers, about 36 weeks, to reduce your paxil load down to 20mgs.  This would reduce the affect the drug is having on your body quite a bit.  Once you get to the 20mg of paxil stabilize for a couple of months and then taper off of the zyprexa.  Once that is out of your system for a few months you could continue with tapering the paxil.

 

Paxil is notorious for weight gain also. As much as we want it to happen right now, it's more up to the drugs and their time table than our desires.  We can watch our eating habits and do all the correct things and when the time is right the weight will come off, but until then try not to get too frustrated. I've been fighting it for years and have found that it comes off in drops and plateaus.

 

Brass

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DaveB
On 12/21/2017 at 12:44 PM, brassmonkey said:

Hi Dave-- I'm so glad to see that you're stabilizing and aren't going to rush things.  The suggestions we make are recommendations only and in the end its all up to the person making the taper to decide which direction to go.  The reason we recommend to take the breaks off first is because as the activating load decreases the breaks tend to take over and make them feel sluggish and lack motivation and the symptoms generally get in the way of tracking how the other taper is going.  However, I think a staggered taper might be a better option.  40mg of paxil is a very large dose, and from the sert loading charts anything over 20mg is basically wasted because it has very little "clinical" effect on the body.  But it does have a very large physical effect.  It would only take six or seven tapers, about 36 weeks, to reduce your paxil load down to 20mgs.  This would reduce the affect the drug is having on your body quite a bit.  Once you get to the 20mg of paxil stabilize for a couple of months and then taper off of the zyprexa.  Once that is out of your system for a few months you could continue with tapering the paxil.

 

Paxil is notorious for weight gain also. As much as we want it to happen right now, it's more up to the drugs and their time table than our desires.  We can watch our eating habits and do all the correct things and when the time is right the weight will come off, but until then try not to get too frustrated. I've been fighting it for years and have found that it comes off in drops and plateaus.

 

Brass

 

So I screwed up...BAD! I went to Montana for Christmas, feeling pretty good. I accidentally took 2 .5mg pills of Klonopin instead of my 2 20mg pills of Paxil. This happened for what I think was at least 2 days, but could have been as many as 4 or 5. For those few days I went from feeling good, to better than good like almost completely normal. Not even sure why I brought klonopin, I hadn't taken one since May...just felt like a safety net I guess. Now I have been back on the 40mgs of Paxil for about a week and feeling worse every day. Doc thinks 40 mgs of Paxil might be just too activating and is recommending me drop down to 20 starting tonight. Since my nervous system is already in chaos I am kind of inclined to agree with him to use this setback as a way to get stable on a much lower dose. What is everyone's thoughts? Those 3 days of almost normal made me realize I was never stable on 40mgs, so why not try 20mgs. 

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DaveB

Another reason why I think going down could help is when I acidentally CTed off the Paxil I felt MUCH better, not worse. I got light headed pretty bad at times, but overall I was much better with it OUT of my system. 

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DaveB

That and when I did my too fast drop from 60 to 40 msg I felt better on 40 than I did at 60. I get tapering slow when stable, but I am not, and have never been stable and I feel Paxil is doing more harm than good at this point.

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nz11
4 hours ago, DaveB said:

when I acidentally CTed off the Paxil I felt MUCH better, not worse

Don't be fooled by this.

You are simply being mesmerized by all the fish flapping around while the tide disappears over the horizon.

 

 

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DaveB
13 hours ago, nz11 said:

Don't be fooled by this.

You are simply being mesmerized by all the fish flapping around while the tide disappears over the horizon.

 

 

 

I appreciate your input, but am not sure what you mean. I guess what I am asking is since my mixup over Christmas has obviously destabilized me again and I am going to have to go through the stabilization process all over again, wouldn’t it be worth seeing if I can stabilize at a lower dose than the 40 mgs I was on before?

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Gridley

 

A drop from 40mg to 20mg could be very destabilizing.  Yes, taper slowly when stable--but that doesn't mean you should taper fast when unstable.  Taking a chance like this to see if you can stabilize at a lower dose is a roll of the dice I wouldn't take.  It's your decision, but I would hold at 40 until you stabilize--which can take time.   Doing otherwise just delivers another change to your CNS and you've already had your share.

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nz11
4 hours ago, DaveB said:

am not sure what you mean

What I was saying is the fact that you CT paxil and felt better is an illusion. In time you would have been slammed by withdrawal symptoms which are delayed and it would be very rough.

 

I just want to say that I agree with Gridley in holding at 40mg for now until all has settled down.  You have been on a minimum of 40mg for 5 months now. Dependance is established. To cut 50% and go to 20mg is as Gridley says a  risk and doing so with the intention of using an updose as a safety net to stabilize if things turn sour comes with no guarantees.

Yet your drug sig says you have already done the cut to 20mg as of the 3rd jan.

So you are now on your 3rd day at 20mg right?

Well  its your call.  Let us know how it goes. 

Oh yeah whats happening with the klonopin? Was that a once off or is it ongoing. Maybe could be noted in the drug sig too.

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DaveB
1 minute ago, nz11 said:

What I was saying is the fact that you CT paxil and felt better is an illusion. In time you would have been slammed by withdrawal symptoms which are delayed and it would be very rough.

 

I just want to say that I agree with Gridley in holding at 40mg for now until all has settled down.  You have been on a minimum of 40mg for 5 months now. Dependance is established. To cut 50% and go to 20mg is as Gridley says a  risk and doing so with the intention of using an updose as a safety net to stabilize if things turn sour comes with no guarantees.

Yet your drug sig says you have already done the cut to 20mg as of the 3rd jan.

So you are now on your 3rd day at 20mg right?

Well  its your call.  Let us know how it goes. 

Oh yeah whats happening with the klonopin? Was that a once off or is it ongoing. Maybe could be noted in the drug sig too.

 

 

2 hours ago, Gridley said:

 

A drop from 40mg to 20mg could be very destabilizing.  Yes, taper slowly when stable--but that doesn't mean you should taper fast when unstable.  Taking a chance like this to see if you can stabilize at a lower dose is a roll of the dice I wouldn't take.  It's your decision, but I would hold at 40 until you stabilize--which can take time.   Doing otherwise just delivers another change to your CNS and you've already had your share.

 

The klonopin was something I took for a couple of weeks in May and then never did again...until right around Christmas that is when I screwed it all up again. I have been taking my Zyprexa and Paxil at night, so last night was my 1st night of 20mgs. The reasoning behind dropping to 20 is that after I dropped from 60 to 40 after a couple of weeks of adjustment I felt a noticeable improvement on 40MGs as opposed to 60. Also when I took klonopin instead of my 40mg dose of paxil on accident, I felt MUCH better, pretty much normal apart from some light-headedness. Because of this, my doctor suggested trying a lower dose when going back to 40mgs after my screw-up was causing so many problems. When I hadn't heard any response on this forum last night, I decided to take his advice and give it a try. Please don't take the fact I went down to 20 as not taking your advice or valuing your opinion, nothing could be further from the truth. I guess the million dollar question now is, would you go back up to 40 or try to ride it out at 20 and see how it goes?

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nz11

Sorry no one replied to your intended plan of action Dave.

Having said that however there is a link on how to taper paxil and BM laid out what I felt was an excellent plan of attack on 22 dec.

 

Anyway here are my thoughts to the current conundrum so that at least you have one response to have been tabled for consideration. In the absence of others prior to another dosing. Its your call.

1 hour ago, DaveB said:

when I took klonopin instead of my 40mg dose of paxil on accident, I felt MUCH better, pretty much normal apart from some light-headedness.

For the third time, I would  not be reading anything into this ...its an illusion to think you were better off without the paxil. You are deeply addicted to it and its possibly masking a flood of wdl symptoms of prior too fast tapers.

 

First of all If I were you I  would gather up all the klonopin pills put them in a bag and remove them from the property so that mix ups never happen again and even better you never take a klonopin again.

You have what looks to me like serious psychotropic drug exposure for 10 years which includes high doses and switches and unsafe tapers. 

This imo adds up to one sensitized cns or one big psych drug embedded trellis in the brain. A brain that imo is going to be one unhappy camper when 50% of its current drug fix is removed.  Personally I don't think you will pull off a stabilized 50% cut from this back story-ed position. 

If I were you  I would consider going back immediately to the 40mg and stay there to stabilize it could take months.

Having said this I am not a doctor so if you need a doctors expert opinion to follow it sounds like you have it.

Good luck what ever your decision.

keep posting

Wishing you stability. 

Here's a thought if you taper slowly you get to have a life and keep the wife. 

nz11 

 

 

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Gridley

I would go back to 40mg and hold there until you stabilize, then do a slow taper.  

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nz11

Dave I don't know what time zone you are in but I'm pretty sure that you would have passed through another dosing.

Are you able to update on what direction you have decided to go.  

You have been in my thoughts.

Wishing you stability 

nz11

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DaveB
13 hours ago, nz11 said:

Dave I don't know what time zone you are in but I'm pretty sure that you would have passed through another dosing.

Are you able to update on what direction you have decided to go.  

You have been in my thoughts.

Wishing you stability 

nz11

 

Wow, I really appreciate you thinking of me and checking up on me. I talked it over extensively with my wife, I agree with you guys that I would be able to stabilize much quicker going back to 40mgs, she disagreed saying that since my large drop from 60 to 40 resulted in much more stability in December than I had experienced previously, that a drop to 20 had a good chance of doing the same. I told her that 40 to 20 is a much steeper drop as it is not 33% but 50%, and maybe as a compromise we should go to 30 or 35. She got really mad that I wouldn't just "do what the doctor is telling you to do." So to keep her happy I am still at 20 mgs, doing ok for now (certainly not great) but to be honest VERY scared of what may be coming. Hopefully I can still find support here as this site has been a critical lifeline for me in this process. Again I am humbled and touched that you have kept me in your thoughts and I appreciate it more than you know!

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Gridley

I hope it goes well for you.  Please keep checking in.

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AliG
On 1/5/2018 at 11:44 PM, Gridley said:

I would go back to 40mg and hold there until you stabilize, then do a slow taper.  

 

I have to agree with both Gridley and  nz11 - a 50% drop is dangerous and ill- advised. As it's only been a few doses, I would go back up to 40 mg.

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nz11

Looks like Gridley ....and AliG just snuck in before me..... 

Don’t worry you will always find support here on this site regardless. It’s not easy out there.

 

wishing you stability and strength not sure ‘Happy wife happy life ‘ has been tested like this before.

nz11

 

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RachelSusan

Hi DaveB,

I have been following your posts. I'm checking in to see how you are doing.  I am keeping my fingers crossed that you are doing OK. Never fear, you will always find support here.

Rachel

PS - I answered your post on my page. Thank you so much for coming by my page.

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brassmonkey

The actual dose amount is only a small part of the WD equation. Over the years of taking the medication your body had physically adapted to it.  Most of your serotonin receptors have been turned off (at 40mgai Paxil about 87% of the receptors have been turned off) and your body is accustomed to this, but requires a large amount of paxil in order to understand how to continue to function.  With out the paxil your body can't work right and causes WD symptoms. 

 

By changing the dose around the body gets confused because it has adapted to a certain amount of the drug and if it doesn't get it things go haywire.  Frequent changes in the amount of drug also sensitizes the body to the drug so the results of a change become more and more unpredictable with each change.  This change may have been easy, but the next could send you down the rabbit hole, and you don't want to go there. The body requires stability in dosing in order to slowly undo the physical changes and return the body to it's normal drug free condition.

 

In all most every case of CT, rapid taper or frequent large changes there is a "honeymoon period" during which the person feels better than they have for years.  That honeymoon period usually lasts three months and disappears over night. One day you're fine and the next you're feeling the worst that you ever have in your life.  Once that happens it can take a minimum of three months but more than likely over a year of careful dosing and mental gymnastics to stabilize to the point you can resume your taper.  Those three months to over a year are not pleasant, we have many, many journals here describing that period.  To a person those members wish they had listened, taken their time and done it using the method we have proved to work.

 

Given the high doses and multiple changes in your recent history and the ease of taking one pill and not having to worry about making up doses 40mgai is your best bet for the near future.  You're going to have to take it every day at the same time for at least six months, probably longer, for your body to stabilize.  Once fully stable, you can consider a very long very slow taper to try and minimize the symptoms as you reduce.  Going to a much lower dose will effectively be a CT in the way your body sees it and will throw it into chaos that will take years to undo.

 

As always the choice is up to you, but we have a huge amount of experience with doing this and fully understand the consequences of doing it wrong.

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DaveB
1 hour ago, brassmonkey said:

The actual dose amount is only a small part of the WD equation. Over the years of taking the medication your body had physically adapted to it.  Most of your serotonin receptors have been turned off (at 40mgai Paxil about 87% of the receptors have been turned off) and your body is accustomed to this, but requires a large amount of paxil in order to understand how to continue to function.  With out the paxil your body can't work right and causes WD symptoms. 

 

By changing the dose around the body gets confused because it has adapted to a certain amount of the drug and if it doesn't get it things go haywire.  Frequent changes in the amount of drug also sensitizes the body to the drug so the results of a change become more and more unpredictable with each change.  This change may have been easy, but the next could send you down the rabbit hole, and you don't want to go there. The body requires stability in dosing in order to slowly undo the physical changes and return the body to it's normal drug free condition.

 

In all most every case of CT, rapid taper or frequent large changes there is a "honeymoon period" during which the person feels better than they have for years.  That honeymoon period usually lasts three months and disappears over night. One day you're fine and the next you're feeling the worst that you ever have in your life.  Once that happens it can take a minimum of three months but more than likely over a year of careful dosing and mental gymnastics to stabilize to the point you can resume your taper.  Those three months to over a year are not pleasant, we have many, many journals here describing that period.  To a person those members wish they had listened, taken their time and done it using the method we have proved to work.

 

Given the high doses and multiple changes in your recent history and the ease of taking one pill and not having to worry about making up doses 40mgai is your best bet for the near future.  You're going to have to take it every day at the same time for at least six months, probably longer, for your body to stabilize.  Once fully stable, you can consider a very long very slow taper to try and minimize the symptoms as you reduce.  Going to a much lower dose will effectively be a CT in the way your body sees it and will throw it into chaos that will take years to undo.

 

As always the choice is up to you, but we have a huge amount of experience with doing this and fully understand the consequences of doing it wrong.

 

Brassmonkey,

 

Thank you for weighing in, as per a previous post of yours, won't about 87% of my receptors continue to be turned off at 20mgs? I agree with you and to be honest I am scared of what this decision will do, trying to walk a fine line here with my wife who understandably is fed up with this whole ordeal,.She has essentially lost her husband and partner in raising our 3 kids for a year. When I dropped from 60mgs to 40mgs, your advice was to hold at 40 and that it was a much better place to be than at 50 or 60. Why is this different? Not challenging you or anything (I know tone is hard to read in text) I am just trying to get educated on all of this. I am now almost a week at 20, shouldn't I just hold here and attempt to stabilize from this point? I know I am in for a rocky (to put in mildly) few months, but won't I be better for it to stabilize at 20 rather than 40? Isn't it essentially all about staying at a steady state for the brain to settle down and the actual dose isn't all that important? 

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DaveB
4 hours ago, RachelSusan said:

Hi DaveB,

I have been following your posts. I'm checking in to see how you are doing.  I am keeping my fingers crossed that you are doing OK. Never fear, you will always find support here.

Rachel

PS - I answered your post on my page. Thank you so much for coming by my page.

 

I am doing ok, really up and down. Times today where I have felt completely normal, and times where I have felt terrible. Seems I am in a rapid cycling stage of windows and waves. I had a really rough morning and early afternoon yesterday (which was my day off) however the anxiety gave me a pretty good window after about 2-3 PM. I went and saw a movie with my wife (The Greatest Showman...I would highly recommend it BTW) and felt really pretty good. I would be optimistic, but it seems the consensus is I am in for a rough go with my recent decision to try to stabilize at a lower dose following an inexplicably stupid mistake I made over the holidays. Thanks for the support, I really appreciate it. 

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DaveB
2 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

The actual dose amount is only a small part of the WD equation. Over the years of taking the medication your body had physically adapted to it.  Most of your serotonin receptors have been turned off (at 40mgai Paxil about 87% of the receptors have been turned off) and your body is accustomed to this, but requires a large amount of paxil in order to understand how to continue to function.  With out the paxil your body can't work right and causes WD symptoms. 

 

BTW, how are you doing now that you are finally off of everything after over 20 years? Congrats on that by the way, I wish that was me!

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DaveB
3 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Given the high doses and multiple changes in your recent history and the ease of taking one pill and not having to worry about making up doses 40mgai is your best bet for the near future.  You're going to have to take it every day at the same time for at least six months, probably longer, for your body to stabilize.  Once fully stable, you can consider a very long very slow taper to try and minimize the symptoms as you reduce.  Going to a much lower dose will effectively be a CT in the way your body sees it and will throw it into chaos that will take years to undo.

 

You really think the difference in this decision of 40 or 20mgs will be YEARS?!?  Isn't there a good chance the Zyprexa I also take could minimize the negative effects as it acts as a "brakes" medication? 

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brassmonkey

The serotonin receptors are just a small part of what is affected by these drugs.  They essentially cause trouble with every system in the body which is why they are so difficult to get off of.  A drop from 40 to 20 might be fine for the serotonin receptors, but how it affects the endocrine system, the CNS, the autonomic nervous system, the hormonal balance and a whole slue of things is part of the problem.  Also all those systems are interrelated so if you throw off one or them you throw off all the rest.  Even the manufacturers don't really understand how they work or what they do to a person. These drugs are straight out of a sci-fi horror film with what they do to the mind and body.  The other problem is that everyone reacts differently to them so you might get away with the drop to 20mg and have the affects only last a few months.  Experience has shown that this in not the case. 

 

For example I have several "taper buddies" who CTed 20mg, 30mg and 40mg at the same time I started my 10% taper.  That was six years ago.  I'm 95% recovered and getting on with my life, they are all still suffering pretty much acute WD on a daily basis.  Another friend CTed 60mg severall years before I started and is still having major problems.

 

I'm so sorry to hear that your wife is having trouble with this.  It's totally understandable though.  Would it be possible to get her to have a look around the site, a little knowledge might help her to understand.

 

As I mentioned above, I'm about 95% back to normal.  It's actually hard to put a number on it because things keep clearing up and changing in ways that I didn't even know were being affected.  Recovery doesn't end with jumping to "0". It's actually just getting going.  There is a lot less information available for the post "0" period so it's pretty much uncharted waters.  There are several predicted bad waves that are pretty common, I had one a month or so ago and face the good possibility of another in a few months from now.  There are some mental clarity issues that are ongoing but improving.  Having been drugged for well over 20 years is making handling emotions a challenge as they've been pretty much nonexistent for a very long time.  All on all things are the best that they've been in many years.

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DaveB
10 hours ago, Gridley said:

I hope it goes well for you.  Please keep checking in.

 

10 hours ago, AliG said:

 

I have to agree with both Gridley and  nz11 - a 50% drop is dangerous and ill- advised. As it's only been a few doses, I would go back up to 40 mg.

 

10 hours ago, nz11 said:

Looks like Gridley ....and AliG just snuck in before me..... 

Don’t worry you will always find support here on this site regardless. It’s not easy out there.

 

wishing you stability and strength not sure ‘Happy wife happy life ‘ has been tested like this before.

nz11

 

 

2 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

The serotonin receptors are just a small part of what is affected by these drugs.  They essentially cause trouble with every system in the body which is why they are so difficult to get off of.

 

I got my wife to agree to me giving 20 mgs a one week trial and then going back to 40 if I don’t feel noticeable improvement. What are your thoughts on this?

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nz11

 

Dave,

I don't recall seeing lyrica in the drug sig before maybe it was there and I missed it. 

I have a feeling its just been added in because I couldn't understand  why you doubled the dose of paxil to 40 last year and now I can see it was because the doctor  CT the lyrica at the same time. Also I have just re-read your whole thread and I have not seen one mention of lyrica even when cc repeated back to you what she thought you were on.

Its hard for people to give support when they only know a partial story. With so many drugs and changes its easy to forget something don't worry we know what it is like.

 600mg of lyrica for 2.5 months seems  a large dose to me but rereading it does appear doctors can  give people that kind of dose. but that is a lot to ct. 

No wonder you were  a mess last year. You talk often of 'anxiety' but I think you are really talking about wdl symptoms.

 

I also note in re-reading that you have changed doctors.

You were not happy and rightfully so at the prior doctor for the 'rollercoaster' he put you on. So you changed.

I don't know how the system works in your country but does the new doctor who I assume you started to see in dec know about your drug history?

 

On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 1:44 PM, DaveB said:

Because of this, my doctor suggested trying a lower dose when going back to 40mgs after my screw-up was causing so many problems.

 

I assume you are now referring to the new doctor here.

Does the new doctor acknowledge wdl symptoms when coming off these drugs ?

Does the new doctor understand that wdl symptoms can be delayed for several months?

Did he know that in 2017 you CT Zoloft,  lex and lyrica (600mg!) and klonopin and  have been unstable for all of the second half of last year right up to mid dec. 

Sometimes if we aren't fully informed our suggestions may be different if more info had come to light.

 

I see you have just posted so I will still post this as food for thought. (Also I just hate it when I have to delete  3 hours work)

I can understand where your wife is coming from we all can as it is next to impossible for someone to understand ssri wdl if they have never experienced it.

Its a big change to realise doctors may not be as safe as we were brought up to belief. 

All the best

nz11

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brassmonkey

Having a good support system can be a major benefit during WD.  Also a once in a life time loving relationship is something to be cherished and preserved.  I don't think waiting a week will cause and additional problems.  Take notes on paper to keep track of any symptoms/ changes that might crop up, if your memory is like mine was when I was in acute you'll need them.  It's excellent that she is willing to try and work with you on this, be sure to let her know how much you appreciate her putting up with everything.  Even though she's not experiencing the WD directly she is a partner in all of this and probably scared to death to see you going through it and frustrated that she can't make it all better.

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Gridley

Sounds very good, DaveB.  My wife too has had to put up with (and miss out on) a lot.  Good on yours for agreeing to this.

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DaveB
On 1/7/2018 at 1:41 AM, brassmonkey said:

Having a good support system can be a major benefit during WD.  Also a once in a life time loving relationship is something to be cherished and preserved. 

 Could not agree more! Thank you for your advice and support.

 

On 1/7/2018 at 7:29 AM, Gridley said:

Sounds very good, DaveB.  My wife too has had to put up with (and miss out on) a lot.  Good on yours for agreeing to this.

 

Thanks for your advice and help Gridley, you have been great to me through this process.  

 

I really started to struggle this weekend so I went back up to 40mgs last night. It sucks I have probably set myself back months due to my mistake over Christmas and subsequent dumb attempt at reducing to 20mgs. I know it is probably just placebo, but I already felt a little less on edge this morning. Hoping to get back to my pre-Christmas form of semi-stability quickly, but am prepared to wait it out for the long haul.  

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