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WarriorWoman

WarriorWoman Struggling with Risperdal, Klonopin, Trileptal

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WarriorWoman

Hi,

I was prescribed Risperdal .25mg, Klonopin.50mg and Trileptal 300mg all at the same time in September 2007. By 2013 a new psychiatrist had upped my doses to R 1.50mg, K .50mg and TRileptal 900mg and added Saphris 10mg. The original psychiatrist did not provide a diagnosis and I presented with what he called "Compulsivity Contol Issues". I didn't know this until requesting my medical records from this original psychiatrist from the state I used to live in. I requested the records May of 2016 after being completely disabled by the drugs. When I asked my then psychiatrist what my diagnosis was she said Bi Polar based on the drugs I told her I was taking when I came to her in 2009. I was blown away. Nowhere in my history before or after these drugs did I ever experience Bi Polar symptoms. The only thing that I ever told my psychiatrist was that my job was stressful and I wasn't coping and I didn't think the drugs were helping me but rather hurting me. She said I needed higher doses and upped all of my meds except the K. At that point I decided to taper off the drugs. I tapered myself off of the Saphris which took me from May 27th 2016 to November 19th, 2016. I didn't tell her what I was doing. When I asked her for help getting off of the rest of the drugs she told me to just stop taking them. I gave myself a break from tapering and started doing research on tapering correctly and am now reaching out to a forum. I found a psychiatric nurse who I told my story to and she agreed to help me get off the drugs. I had her prescribe the liquid form of risperidone and began my taper on Jan 5th 2017.

I have 2 questions:

 

1. I know that tapering more than one drug at a time is not recommended but I have been reading the user Rhiannon's posts and looking at their signature and saw that they tapered more than one drug at once and was wondering what their method was. I'm not investigating this to get through the withdrawls faster but rather having to take all these poisons every night is causing me so much anxiety knowing that I can only knock one out at a time and I like the idea of working on all of them a little bit at a time (these would be micro cuts on all the drugs)

 

2. Does anyone know what happened to Rhiannon? I tried to send them a message and it gave me an error message saying something like they are no loner accepting messages. I just wondered if they finished and are no longer in the forum...?

 

Any help greatly appreciated!!

Edited by Altostrata
retitled topic

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scallywag

WarriorWoman -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)
 
I hope you'll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation. I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but am glad that you found us.
 
Thank you for completing a signature with your medication and tapering history. 
 
When a someone is taking multiple medications, we ask that that you post an interactions report.  Follow the link below to get your report. Just select the text, copy it and paste it in a post here.
Drugs-dot-com Drugs Interactions Checker.
 
You may want to read these topics:
Before you begin tapering -- what you need to know.
Taking multiple drugs? Which to taper first.
Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

And in case you haven't found these topics about your medications:
Tips for tapering off Risperdal (risperidone)
Tips for tapering off Tripleptal (oxcarbazepine)
Members-only benzo forum

 
Your questions:

  • Rhiannon started the "parallel nano-taper" (very small reductions in several medications simultaneously) after several years of tapering. That experience gave her the knowledge about how her body reacted to dose cuts of the medications.  Those lessons are critical to making appropriate adjustments when symptoms arise.she learned to inform her as she made the small dose changes.
     
  • Every member has the ability to customize the messaging function, including shutting down the ability to receive messages entirely. Some of the other moderators may have established relationships with Rhi off the site and might now how she's doing. They *may* see this message and *may* ask Rhi to post an update. No promises. :)

Please let us know your questions and how you are doing.

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WarriorWoman

I started with a too aggressive for me Risperdal taper and am now listening to my body and have discoveed that I need to do a  micro taper. I am tapering .01mg with a hold of at least 2 weeks. My question is do most people hold until their w/d symptoms completely disappear or just until the worst of them are gone?

 

Self Care:

Gentle Daily walks

Guided relaxation meditation (I use the Headspace App)

Daily Restorative yoga practice for 1 hour before bed)

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ChessieCat

I've merged the new topic you created with your original Intro topic.  Each member has only 1 Intro topic where they can ask questions about their own situation.  This keeps your history in one place.

 

Here are some links to check out:

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Withdrawal Normal Description

 

Stabilising After a Reduction - What Does That Mean?

 

It can be a good idea to Keep Notes on Paper and Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress, especially after a reduction so that you look back and see improvements which you may not feel.  It is also helpful in allowing you to see any patterns.

 

There are some charts which you can use on the computer or print out here Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

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WarriorWoman

Thank you. Still very unclear about how to use the site. Also, can you provide me with instructions on how to change my password? I did a search in the help files for "How to change password" and just "change password but nothing was found. 

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Campervan41

It's My Profile/ Edit my profile/ email password. You need to click on your username at the top right hand corner of the screen to access this.

 

Best wishes

 

Camper

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Shep

Hi, Warriorwoman.

 

I received your PM, but I need to answer here on your Intro thread so all of your information is in one place. 

 

You are asking about tapering more than one drug at a time, but I wouldn't recommend this until you are experienced in tapering. Please see what Scallywag wrote:

 

On 5/7/2017 at 10:55 PM, scallywag said:

Rhiannon started the "parallel nano-taper" (very small reductions in several medications simultaneously) after several years of tapering. That experience gave her the knowledge about how her body reacted to dose cuts of the medications.  Those lessons are critical to making appropriate adjustments when symptoms arise.she learned to inform her as she made the small dose changes.
 

 

This is important because not only did Rhiannon get the experience of how her mind/body reacts to reductions, it also provided time to learn and become proficient at the non-drug coping skills that are needed when coming off these drugs. 

 

The first thing I would recommend is taking notes on how you are reacting to each of your drugs throughout the day. This format can be very helpful for this type of symptoms journal:

 

Keep notes on paper about your drug dosages and daily symptom pattern

 

You are on three sedating drugs. Do you take them all at night or some of them throughout the day? 

 

The problem with taking multiple drugs that are sedating is they can turn paradoxical. This is particularly true with benzodiazepines, such as Klonopin. A paradoxical reaction means the drugs act in the opposite way, creating more anxiety and insomnia. The sedating drugs are like a "brake" on the nervous system, applying pressure which dampens down the nervous system. In return, the nervous system reacts by "alerting", which creates the paradoxical reaction.  The more sedating drugs and / or supplements you add, the more likely this is to happen. 

 

I'm wondering if this is what's going on since over the years, you've had to increase the doses of the Risperdal and the Trileptal. A lot of times doctors don't recognize paradoxical reactions and instead of helping you taper off them, will  increase the dose. 

 

So it's really important to get a look at your symptom pattern before we can give you any advice. It's possible as you decrease your drugs, any paradoxical reactions may start to diminish and you may get some relief. 

 

I would concentrate less on a strategy for reducing more than one drug at a time and keep this as simple as possible until you really get a good feel for tapering and also, find some non-drug coping skills that help you deal with the problems that lead to the use of these drugs in the first place. 

 

Please keep updating. 

Edited by Shep

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WarriorWoman

Hi all,

 

I am in the middle of a medically necessary rapid taper from Trileptal (oxcarbazepine)

 

Here is the story and I apologize for the length. In July I went for my annual physical and my GP sent me for a bone density scan. I found out that I have severe osteoporosis- essentially the bones of a 90 year old woman and I am 45. It is so severe that the endocrinologist said that if I fell and broke a hip today that there is an 85% chance that I would never walk again. He suspected the anti-consultant drug Trileptal. He said it was my choice as to whether or not I wanted to do a slow taper and risk more bone loss or not. I decided it was worth it. BUT, he also ran a comprehensive blood analysis and found out that my blood sodium levels were dangerously low and that my electrolytes were off kilter to the tune that I am in a near constant state of hyponatremia which is a bad place to be in.  It was explained to me that if I were to get a stomach bug or food poisoning and be vomiting and/or diarrhea by the time I got to the ER the hospital would probably not be able to do anything to prevent my death. So, I was circling the waterfalls essentially.

 

As I was explaining some of the symptoms I was having but just thought they were all from a glacially slow Risperdal withdrawal that I started on Jan 5th 2017 at 1.50mg  that I got down to 1.10mg 145 days ago (so I have been holding at that dose for 145 days partly because I needed a break but then because the possible tapering of the Trileptal that I knew I may be facing after doing some initial research.)

 

As if the osteoporosis and hyponatremia weren't bad enough I was also diagnosed with hemolysis which is where your red blood cells die off too rapidly and cause all kinds of long term, and sometimes irreversible conditions. This also came from the Trileptal. Sooo, starting on 10/20/17 I cut 75mg from my starting dose of 900mg Trileptal. I held for 5 days then cut another 75mg then held 5 days and so on. This was the recommended pace that my Endocrinologist and Psychiatrist came up with together. I have been having bi-weekly blood draws and all of the conditions, except the osteoporosis are improving numbers wise. At this point I haven't really had much of any kind of withdrawal symptoms. The half life of Trileptal is 3 hours and it's metabolites are 9 hours. I am currently at half my original dose as of yesterday 11/14/17 (450mg.)

 

After all of this here are my questions:

 

Will this rapid withdrawal catch up to me at some point even months after the taper?

 

Also, if I do continue to feel OK (crossing fingers and knocking on wood) how long is a good, prudent hold to take before resuming the Risperdal taper?

 

This whole thing scares me and goes against my better judgement of small and slow that I've done so far with these drugs but when you have a specialist, your psychiatrist (for what that's worth), and my husband who's Uncle actually did die from the scenario described above, telling me immediate action needs to be taken I figured the circumstances called for it, like it or not! And, honestly, if I do become very ill I'm not sue I had much of a choice seeing that I don't want to die!

 

Thank you for any help/feedback/replies :)

Edited by ChessieCat

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manymoretodays

Woah Nellie.......that's a whopper of a dose of Trileptal to come off of.  900mg.!!!!!!   Were you running and raging through the streets naked?  I mean what prompted all the medications?   I got a lot of irritability being on Trileptal/oxcarbazapine and sometimes while coming off it.  I think it's a brain irritant or something. 

 

Trileptal was my last psychoactive drug to come off and I tapered down from 75mg. in 10 percent increments.  I was only on it a year and 1/2 though.  Lab work and everything for me has been normal, though I haven't had bone density studies.  I am a young 60 year old now and I probably will have some bone issues or arthritis or something to deal with one of these decades.  A lot of Antidepressants(AD's) and other  psychoactive drugs do mess with your Sodium(Na) and both red and white blood cells as well over time.  Hopefully it will be reversible for you.  It often is.

 

Trileptal is an anti-consultant??  I expect that was a typo.  It was originally used for seizures and then used off label as a mood stabilizer.  Just like they use Depakote and Tegretal and many others.  Trial and error.......see how you go.........that's most medication these days.    Anyway........ technically it's a anti-seizure medication.  Have you had seizures?  You don't want to reduce too fast or it is possible you might have a seizure.  I talked to one person here at SA who that happened to.  Nor do you want to put your poor brain through any more unneccessary disruption..  It, Trileptal,  just dulls the electrical activity or dulls the brain basically..........I'm not surprised that some of your electrolytes( Sodium(Na) is one) have gone whacky.  It's always good to fully inform yourself, as most Dr.'s don't as far as all the short and long term side effects of your medications go........as well as all the dependencies created.

 

Drugs.com is a site SA recommends, first to put all your medications into the interaction checker.  And second it's a great site for reading up on the medications you are prescribed, hopefully before you agree to take them.  Many of us didn't always do that though and throughoughly trusted our Dr.'s.  I was a very willing little guinea pig for them for a long time.

 

You are probably not facing immediate death.  Think positive.  But be safe........maybe even safer than the Dr.'s tell you to be.

 

A moderator should be by and will move your post to the introduction/journal section and help you decide how to best taper to prevent further harm to your nervous and other body systems.  I basically liquified my 150 mg. tabs of Trileptal/oxcarbazepine.........they dissolve pretty good and then used oral syringes of different gradients.  I reduced by 10% of my previous dose every month and then every 2 weeks as I was tolerating the reductions pretty well and jumped off at 27 mg. I think........it's in my signature.

 

Do you take it in split doses.......450mg. twice a day. 

 

Good job on your signature and Saphris and Risperdal tapers.

 

Love, peace, healing/get on in recovery, and personal growth, as well as neuroplasticity(resilence)

 

Welcome aboard........hmmmm.........unless you already have a introduction/journal going on your other taper.

 

manymoretodays (came off many more medications....B).......and she lives on.......hopefully happily ever after)

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WarriorWoman

Thank you for your reply many more todays. No, I wasn't running through the streets naked lol. But, you are right in that this is a very high dose to come off of so quickly and I am scared. I've been scared since the beginning when my husband was angry at me for wanting to do a 10% taper a month and not this craziness. I fear that even though I haven't felt anything so far, I find it hard to believe that this crazy pace will not catch up to me and that I highly doubt I will get off Scott-free. My 2 fears are 1. Getting hit all of a sudden- even 3 months from now and 2. Doing serious damage to my CNS. But, my husband was so angry with me when I proposed a slower, reasonable pace. I know this was fear since as I mentioned his uncle had a bad bout and ended up in the hospital with his sodium and electrolytes so far out of whack that the hospital couldn't save him. 

 

UPDATE: I did reinstate the 75mg that I had cut the night before last night. I am going to hold for at least 3 months. I don't want to debilitate myself. What I am wondering is if I should reinstate even more of it since I went so fast? Like I said, I don't feel debilitated and haven't noticed any of it so far and I keep meticulous records/journals.

Also, after posting last night I was checking my email and got a note from my Dr saying that my blood sodium levels have raised up to 127 (I started at 118) and that I am now in the "moderately dangerous zone" versus the "critical zone." In my opinion that's good enough for now and I am going to hold off on anymore of this craziness and pray things don't come off the tracks in the next several months.

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manymoretodays

I think it's a little different too.........coming off the oxcarbazepine/Trileptal ............than what potentially happens coming off some of the SSRI's, SSNRI's, and things like the Saphris and Risperdal.  I mean the dependencies created are a little different.  One thing always affects the whole though.  Amazing the way the human body works sometimes.   I always thought the oxcarb. worked somehow on the temporal lobe of the brain.........yet I'm not sure where I got that information.  And definitely on the "electrical"/mineral(including Na) system.

 

Oh.......that's the theory though........that if you reduce in small increments with wait periods in between you may NOT get hit with the later protracted/discontinuation stuff 3 or 6 months out.  Your brain/body has more of a chance to come back to homeostasis or balance.  That's the "theory".  And it does seem to reduce what I believe to be eventually reversible harm to you.  Resilience.  Neuroplasticity.

 

I think I was on it once before as well and probably was told to "just come off it".........not due to side effects but just probably doing the med. switcharoo with my Dr.'s advice.  I don't imagine I was on such a high dose though.

 

That's good you made a decision that works for you for now.   Sometimes it's better to err on the side of caution.  And you are in the midst of a Risperdal taper.  One thing at a time.  It's not a race.  And maybe the turtle is always the real winner.......not the hare.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about all the "worst" scenarios.  I know I did do some googling and such and found some other discussions around the Trileptal online too.  There is not a ton here on that specific medication/drug.

 

Okay.  Best.

 

mmt

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Altostrata

I'm very sorry you've had this serious adverse effect from Trileptal, WarriorWoman. From now on, we'll advise anyone taking Trileptal to get a panel for electrolytes etc., RBCs and maybe liver function, too.

 

You're taking such a huge dose of Trileptal, it's possible you won't feel anything reducing by 75mg every 5 days or so. Many people find they can get about halfway down without a bump. At 450mg, I would perhaps reduce by 50mg at a time; at 225mg, reduce by 25mg.

 

If you start to feel exceptionally strange, you'll probably want to hold for a bit. Please let us know how you're doing.

 

(I hope whoever prescribed this enormous dose in your cocktail and failed to monitor you is appropriately apologetic.)

 

 

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manymoretodays

Thanks Alto. 

 

I'm just rereading your last post WW, as well as the one from Weds.,........ and so.........you went on back up from 450mg. to a total 525 mg.(if I am reading your last post correctly).  Do take into consideration Alto's information above.  She is the site administrator if you were unaware of that.

 

And yes, please do keep us updated.  Sounds like you might be okay on the 450 after all.  At least you can rest assured that you don't have to reinstate a whole lot. 

 

What a horrible medical fiasco.  And how scary for you too.  I'm rooting for the best outcome for you!!!  You ARE a true Warrior.

 

Best.  mmt

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WarriorWoman

Thank you MMT & Alto!

 

MMT yes, I was aware that Alto was a moderator on the site and I believe the woman who started the forum as well. Thank you Alto, this forum has been a solid source of a wealth of valuable information :)  Also , thank you MMT for your kind words and your cheer leading- it was a bright spot in my day when I read your reply :)

I wasn't having any symptoms at 450mg of the Trileptal I just became paranoid about tapering so rapidly and what the ramifications of that might be, like MMT mentioned, 3 or 6 months out so I reinstated out of fear because I did see a post on a random forum site from 2011 where someone came off 900mg in about 5 weeks and was having terrible nausea, tingling, chills & headaches still a couple of months out. I definitely do not want that. Based on Alto's feedback which makes a lot of sense IMO,. I am holding at the reinstated dose of 525mg for a couple of more days yet for the purpose of not "yanking" my CNS around and to make sure I still have no symptoms. When I reach 450mg here is my intended plan:

1. Cut smaller amounts- I will probably start at Alto's suggested 50mg

2. Hold longer in between cuts.

My main goal was to get out of the danger zone ASAP. I know my psychiatrist's, Endocrinologist's and my goal is to get me to zero but I want to proceed sensibly once I'm out of immediate danger. I do not want and cannot afford to be in protracted w/d for may reasons. I'm definitely a "turtle taperer" and was in no rush with any of my med tapering until this happened. I firmly believe in Alto's analogy of the baby in the pram over rocky terrain.

Thank you to both of you ladies for your replies. They are much appreciated and I value the feedback on this site because it is logical, sensible & conservative.

I also will continue to hold on my Risperdal taper as well. Ah, the joys of poly-drugging *sigh*

 

Alto:

The Dr who did this to me actually had me up to 1500mg at one point! It was only when I said "Enough" and went to a new Dr that she got me down to 900mg  But, as we know it was still 900mg! I can guarantee you that both are oblivious! Which reminds me, I need to edit my signature to include my highest doses of these same medications so that my history is more clear but I am not sure how to do that. Can anyone advise me on how?

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manymoretodays

To get to your signature again.  Go to/click your name in the upper right corner.  Select/click Account Settings from that menu.   On the page that comes up, on the left hand side you can select/click signature and edit it.

 

Voila!

Glad you checked in to see Alto's great comments.

 

Love, peace, healing/in recovery, and growth baby growth!

mmt

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