Goldegg18: Tapering of Wellbutrin (bupropion)

[Goldegg18]

I have been on Wellbutrin for the last 10 years. I am currently on 300 mg of bupropion extended release. This will be my third attempt to taper off successfully. This time I have prepped my body and created a conducive environment to successfully taper off. I've followed the pre-taper protocol of a few holistic psychiatrists, mainly Dr. Kelly Brogan. Can anyone who has successfully tapered off Wellbutrin recommend a tapering schedule? Also, did you have the drug compounded into a liquid to taper or just taper down using the tablets?  The compounding pharmacy said that they couldn't create a compounded version of the extended release of the Wellbutrin; it would just be immediate release. Is this true? 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Goldegg.

 

We certainly can give you some pointers: Tips for tapering off Wellbutrin, SR, XR, XL (buproprion)

 

Generally, you can cut up the tablets. The trick is to get as low as possible on buproprion XR, using a combination of the XR tablets and SR tablets, finally ending up with immediate-release tablets at the end. If necessary, you can make a liquid of the IR tablets, you can't make a liquid of the others.

 

You might want to use search for "Wellbutrin" in the Introductions forum to see the experience of others going off Wellbutrin.

 

What problems did you have going off buproprion before?

[Goldegg18]

Thanks so much for responding. I'll look through the site more thoroughly to check out the experiences of others going off Wellbutrin. To answer your question, in the past when I weaned off Wellbutrin, I took the guidance of the doctor who prescribed the medication. I was only on 150 mg XL then so the taper took about 6 weeks or so. However, afterwards I experienced crying spells, weight gain, severe fatigue (took me forever to get out of bed), my depression worsened, and I also had anxiety and paranoid thoughts constantly. However, both times my environment and living situation was very negative. The second of the two times I tried to get off the drug, it was considerably worse than the first. I was also living as a journalist in a war zone in the Middle East and a war had just passed. So that could have been it, too. But, now I have created a very positive environment for myself and have been following a strict protocol to prepare my body for the taper. Are you familiar with any specific tapering timelines. I have been reading that the ideal taper should be no more than a 10% reduction of the drug every 2 weeks. That's the fastest it should go. 

[Altostrata]

We recommend starting with 10% per month, each reduction calculated on the last dosage. Please see Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

[ChessieCat]

Hi GoldEgg and welcome to SA,

 

We ask all members to create a drug signature which will be seen below every post you make.  This allows us to see your drug history at a glance.  Please follow this preferred format and update it whenever you make a change so it remains current.  Thank you.

 

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

Here are links to some topics which you might find helpful:

 

Tapering Calculator - Online - can be saved

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms
 

Keep Notes on Paper

Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Withdrawal Normal Description

Stabilising After a Reduction - What Does That Mean?
 

This is your own Introduction topic where you can ask questions and journal your progress.

[Marmot]

Goldegg! Just wanted to say Hi. I'm also going off of Wellbutrin, so I'll be interested in your posts. I don't have any useful tips for you yet, but I wanted to let you know that you're not alone with the withdrawal. Looking around online can be uncomfortable because so many websites say that wellbutrin doesn't have any withdrawal symptoms, and even my doctors have told me that. However, like you, I tried to stop in the past and each time had plenty of fatigue, crying, and low motivation. Everyone thought the episodes were true depression but I'm questioning that. It sounds like the key here is to go slowly. What kinds of things did you do to create a positive environment for yourself? Take care!

[Goldegg18]

Thanks for the reply Altostrata. And thanks for all the info, ChessieCat. The links were incredibly helpful. 

 

HI, Marmot! You are absolutely right. It appears that the key is to do this very slowly so our nervous system can adjust to it. The first two times I tried to wean off were terrible. My anxiety and paranoid thoughts were out of control. I was also crying all the time and could barely make it out of bed and sometimes I couldn't even sleep. What I have come to find through extensive research and learning from the experiences of others is that you must create an environment for yourself in which you set yourself up for success. This means detoxing your body, mind, and overall life (includes people, environment, work, etc) before beginning the taper. 

So what did I do? I began Dr. Kelly Brogan's 30 day detox program. I bought her book, "A Mind of Your Own" and followed her protocol very strictly. It involves a diet free of gluten, most grains, caffeine, dairy, sugar, corn, among other things. It's basically a paleo diet. It also involves supplementation, meditation and coffee enemas. I just completed the 30 days a few days ago. And, this is what I have found so far:  my anxiety is dramatically reduced, I barely have any social anxiety (and I used to be extremely agoraphobic), I actually enjoy the sunlight (I never in my life liked the sun; I actually loved constant rain and fog), the little things that used to bother me, no longer bother me, and I have found myself being able to access a power within me that I can turn to anytime. I feel stronger. And, I personally didn't ever experience any cravings and found the diet protocol very easy to do. I also included near infrared sauna therapy as per Dr. Lawrence Wilson's suggestion. I would check out his website also. He has some crazy out there stuff, but some of it is really good. And, finally, the hardest but very necessary thing to do was to remove the people in my life that were adding stress, anxiety and negative energy. This was incredibly difficult because I like to "please" people. But, sometimes you have to be selfish to be selfless. 

 

I must tell you that these 30 days were not emotionally easy. I released a lot of trapped emotions. There was a lot of flashbacks from war, childhood trauma, adult trauma, feelings of abandonment and insecurities. And this is where your environment comes in. All my life I was constantly moving, traveling, living in different countries, and never really had any privacy or alone time, and always trying  to escape from myself.  So now I recently moved from a cramped New York City Apartment with several roommates to my own apartment away from the Manhattan chaos. The last two and a half months alone have given me the space to just let go. I was able to cry out so much that I never ever processed. All the emotions I couldn't deal with or face I numbed with psychiatric drugs and other unhealthy methods. But, the truth of the matter is... part of being human is feeling. And some may feel deeper than others. This is not an illness, this is a gift. 

 

So by letting go of a lot of "garbage," minimizing stress in my life, and finding my own power has creating a solid foundation for myself to succeed on this tapering journey. I have no doubt that I will succeed. However, I know it won't be easy. There will be good days and there will be bad days. I have learned to accept that.

 

Thank you, Marmot, for reminding me I'm not alone in this journey. Sometimes it feels like I am but this forum has already been a tremendous help. 

 

I'm happy to answer anymore questions and share my experiences with you or anyone else.

[Marmot]

That's awesome! It sounds like you really set yourself up for success. Glad to hear that you were able to process all of those trapped feelings. I'm eating essentially paleo now too and meditating. I actually went to a meditation group today and learned some amazing stuff about suffering. Keep it up!

[Goldegg18]

Has anyone who has tapered off Wellbutrin experienced severe, almost debilitating anxiety in the morning. I've tapered off 300 mg XL of Wellbutrin and have been off it for about 4 months. In the last two months I started to experience severe anxiety every morning, a gloom and doom type of anxiety and a deep sense of insecurity, like everything is just going to fall apart in life, and everything is out of control. Typically I just lay in bed till the feeling passes and sometimes it lasts for hours. This is the third time I have tapered off wellbutrin and every single time it's the same story with the anxiety in the morning. I did some research and it seems like it's a symptom of PTSD and decreased levels of dopamine. Anyway, if anyone has experienced this and knows how to relieve it naturally, please let me know! Any advise and encouragement would help! 

[Altostrata]

Hello, Goldegg.

 

Please update your signature.

 

Did you go off Wellbutrin gradually? Do you have any left?

 

See Waking with panic or anxiety -- managing cortisol spikes

[Goldegg18]

Hi Altostrata, 

 

Funny enough, I actually tapered off wellburtin under the supervision of a functional medicine doctor, who got me off it in a matter of less than 6 weeks. She wanted to get me off it cold turkey but after arguing with her, she got me off it in a matter of weeks.  Do you think this is the reason for the panic attacks? Luckily I don't have many other side effects except for being scatter brained/disorganized, and less energy. Yes, I have some left. 

[Altostrata]

Unfortunately, functional medicine doctors don't have any special sauce to expedite a taper. It seems that going off Wellbutrin, combined with your history of drug changes, sensitized your nervous system, at least to the early-morning cortisol jump. We have a lot of people with this pattern.

 

You might try darkening your bedroom to see if this ameliorates your morning symptoms.

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

A lot of people find them helpful. Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

[Goldegg18]

First of all, thanks for the initial link on managing cortisol spikes. I read through the thread. It was very helpful, and it's comforting to know that I'm not alone. 

 

Ugh, the functional medicine doctor stated, "Wellbutrin is the easiest drug to get off." I was so skeptical, given my history, but because of the major work I put into my diet and lifestyle changes (I TOOK A YEAR OFF LIFE TO GET MY BRAIN BACK), I thought it would be ok. Anyway, on a positive note, being off wellbutrin: less rumination, little to zero social anxiety, my memory is back!, my appetite is healthier and I'm no longer underweight, no brain zaps (unlike the past tapers), almost zero muscle twitching (unlike the past tapers), no agoraphobia, I'm able to speak my mind (too much maybe, but better than NOT at all) and my motivation to do things, see people, and live life is back. So there is so much more positivity! I also feel like a veil has been lifted from life and I can literally feel the shift in the way I live and interact with people. 

 

However, It's just this morning cortisol spikes that annoying. I am taking magnesium citrate among other things before bed. I take: 600-900 mg of magnesium citrate, camomile lavender tea, 2 tsp of liposomal vitamin C, and 4 pumps of liposomal melatonin (which is A GAME CHANGER. IT PUTS YOU TO BED ALMOST IMMEDIATELY and keeps me asleep most night for at least 7 hours (here is the link: https://www.quicksilverscientific.com/resource-center/the-blog/quicksilver-scientific-launches-liposomal-melatonin-a-natural-sleep-aid)

 

I will try the fish oil and I might even try that seriphos you and Nadia were talking about. I'll also try the black out curtains. 

 

Another thought: While on wellbutrin I never had much zest for life, I was kind of "blah" and "numb" most of the time and whenever I would feel intense emotion, it was typically negative. So, now that I have my brain back I feel the need to do things and meet people. And when I wake up in the morning I feel this rush of anxiety about lost time. I lost so much time spending it in the prison of psychotropic drugs, all the mistakes I made, the things I could have done differently, etc. etc. So, perhaps practicing some mindfulness would help in the morning as well. I don't know. Did you feel this way? I am also scared that I might not be able to "function" in the real world without a drug because I have been taking these drugs since I was a teenager and literally have not lived any of my adult life without them. Is this a normal feeling? I haven't worked in a year because I wanted to make sure I do all I can to get off this drug and stay off it. And, now I'm a bit nervous about living life and not failing. Normal?  

[Altostrata]

I'm a fan of melatonin. Please add your suggestions to our topic Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful in the Symptoms forum.

 

Magnesium will be better absorbed in smaller doses. When you wake up, you might immediately take maybe 200mg mag citrate. It could cut the anxiety.

 

I would try the blackout curtains and sleep mask before Seriphos.

 

Many of the people here regret the time they spent anesthetized on psychiatric drugs. Please forgive yourself and move on.

[Goldegg18]

Hi Altostrata, 

 

I'll add the suggestion to the thread. So how much would you recommend taking at night? How much mg do you take at night? I'll try the 200 mg in the a.m., along with the black out curtains and the sleep mask. 

 

Forgiveness is the missing link here. 

 

Thank you for all the suggestions. 

 

[Altostrata]

When I used to have sleep problems from withdrawal, I would take about 200mg magnesium plus maybe glycine and taurine when I woke during the night. Please see Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

[Goldegg18]

Hi Altostrata, 

I want to thank you again for the tips. I put my shades down to limit the amount of sunlight coming into my bedroom, that helped. I took the magnesium upon waking, which helped a little. But, what has helped the most and basically has gotten rid of the morning anxiety for the last two days I tried is collagen protein before bedtime. I take 3 tablespoons of collagen protein and mix it in chamomile tea. It has done wonders. What it does is prevent the cortisol spikes in the morning, which means less anxiety. You can even try drinking it along with eating a healthy starch such as sweet potato with ghee before bed. This also helps with maintaining blood sugar balance throughout the night. 

[Marmot]

On 5/17/2018 at 4:55 PM, Goldegg18 said:

And when I wake up in the morning I feel this rush of anxiety about lost time. I lost so much time spending it in the prison of psychotropic drugs, all the mistakes I made, the things I could have done differently, etc. etc. So, perhaps practicing some mindfulness would help in the morning as well. I don't know. Did you feel this way? I am also scared that I might not be able to "function" in the real world without a drug because I have been taking these drugs since I was a teenager and literally have not lived any of my adult life without them. Is this a normal feeling?

 

Hey Goldegg,

 

I was also started on this stuff as a teenager and I feel similarly - as in wondering whether important years of my life were wasted due to meds/psychiatry, as well as being terrified that I won't be able to function as an adult without drugs.

 

I just listened to an audiobook biography though about a brave historical figure who faced adversity and uncertainty but didn't give up. His messages were about love and community. If the nutritional changes don't help you enough, biographies are another option. They can be inspirational and feel good for the soul.

 

Cheers,

Marmot

[Marmot]

Goldegg and I had a behind the scenes conversation, so I just wanted to post the outcome of that here for anyone reading Goldegg's thread. This seems like a pretty good list of inspiring biographies. I mentioned that they're easier to get through as audiobooks, at least for me, because my attention for reading books isn't very good at the moment.

 https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/79656.Best_Inspirational_Biographies

[Goldegg18]

Hi All, 

 

I have been off Wellbutrin since end of January this year. So it's coming up to about a year off the drug. I am still having severe anxiety through the day, cortisol spikes in the morning. I'm working with a Chinese medicine doctor/acupuncturist. I'm also working out regularly and doing yoga several times a week, as well as, a very clean, mostly paleo diet. I even meditate twice a day.  I'm not working at the moment and moved back home with my parents to minimize stress. However, i still find my anxiety is very high. I feel hopeless through the day and have low motivation. During my periods is the worst. Little things are magnified into large mountainous issues. In fact, the only time I feel "normal" is when I am working out at the gym. I feel completely well during that time. 20 to 30 minutes after a workout I'm back to severe stress mode. Sometimes at nighttime I feel ok. But, most of my waking day is pure hell, filled with extreme stress and paranoid thoughts at times. Is anyone else feeling this way? I do have a long history of PTSD. Could it be that, coupled with my central nervous system trying to readjust to life without wellbutrin. I actually do even remember feeling this way when I was on wellbutirn; I was just not as conscious about it. Could it be that I am not working? The irony is that I feel deeply lost, confused and unmotivated/unworthy to work. Once I got off the wellbutrin, I started to have tons and tons of racing and unorganized thoughts through the day. This keeps me from getting organized and getting my life on track, I feel. Anyone else feel this way? What can I do to help myself out of this? 

[Altostrata]

Hello, Goldegg.

 

We haven't heard from you in 6 months. It seemed you were doing better. What changed?

 

Is it possible the herbs are causing any of your symptoms? Do you feel better or worse after you take them?

[Goldegg18]

I was up and down and just thought things would get better, that the waves were part of the process. I also changed cities and came home temporarily so that helped a bit. I saw a holistic doctors, a chiropractor and an acupuncturist but none are truly able to help. Like I said, I’m completely fine and well when I’m physically doing moderate exercise and sometimes a time night right before bed. Mornings are the worst. Daytime is pretty bad till about 6pm. Small incidents are blown out of proportion, triggering me into crying spells and rumination. Could I be cortisol levels? Could I be circumstantial-not working? I take magnesium and l-theanine and chamomile tea to help with the anxiety. Anymore I can do?