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Waterfall: Introduction

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JanCarol
On 07/01/2018 at 6:12 PM, Waterfall said:

I'm still really turn over whether to take 1/2 or a 1/4. 

 

Rosetta is right - it's not good to switch it up.

 

It's destabilising to change your doses all the time.

 

If you want to try 1/4, then try 1/4 morning and evening.  And hold it there.

 

It's okay to take 1/2 in the morning and 1/2 in the evening, since it was only a few days ago that you dropped your dose..

 

Or take 1/2 in the morning and 1/4 in the evening - but whatever you choose, do the same thing every day.   For 1-3 months.

 

It is tempting with benzos to run to them PRN for "emergencies."  This makes them more addicting when you use them this way.  It is better to keep a steady state in your system, and not bounce your doses.

Choose a plan and stick with it, stay on a steady dose every day, day in, day out.  No skipping, no extras.  This will help you get stable.

When you are stable - and not before - then you can talk about getting off of it.

3 KIS's Keep It Simple, Slow, Stable 

 

I hope you see the sun today!

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Waterfall

Hey JanCarol, 

Holding steady at 1/4 morning and evening.  I was going to do 1/2 morning, and 1/4 evening, but decided on trying to be as even as possible.  

So, I didn't take it for a few days last week.  Friday afternoon/evening, I took 1/2.  Saturday morning, I also took 1/2.  Saturday night, I took 1/4. 

Sunday morning, morning and night, I took 1/4.  This morning, I took 1/4.  Tonight I plan to take 1/4.  And again tomorrow.  Steady at 1/4.  

It was so tempting to take some this afternoon.  I'm trying so hard to just pick something and stay steady.  It's really hard to cut these pills

to anything close to consistent sizes.  I"m afraid some of them are closer to 1/3.  I'll have to read into that liquid dosing I saw mentioned 

somewhere.  It's supposed to be accurate.  For now I favor the bigger pieces over the smaller ones.  

How will I know what stable looks like?  I thought that 3 1/2 months out from my latest crash that I could handle what I thought was a small 

change.  I wasn't as stable as I thought, and it wasn't as small a change as I thought.  I still have so much to learn, it seems.  It's hard not to 

doubt that I can actually live without pills some day.  That I'll develop the coping skills I need.  I felt very weak today.  But having seen so many

people that have come off so many more drugs after being on them so much longer, I believe it must be doable, if I just go about it right.  

Hopefully I have a better day tomorrow.  

 

 

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Rosetta

Hi Waterfall,

 

I "heard" that if you quote the moderator in your post she will be notified that she was quoted and will look at your thread.  That way you don't need to email her.  If JanCarol doesn't respond maybe you could try that.  

 

I'm glad you chose 1/4 of the pill for am and pm.  If you can handle WD with the lower dose that's better.  I agree that if the pills are coming out all different sizes you should use a liquid.  Maybe this site has a post about whether you can dissolve the pills in water?

 

Oh, yes, you can taper off and live without these meds.  You will have to get stable and then learn to manage your moods.  Don't worry about that now -- just give yourself time to stabilize.  You can do it.  

 

You do not want to be like me -- 15 years of SSRIs.  Right now, my husband is so happy to see my personality coming back.  He has known me for 23 years -- for 7 years before I took Celexa and for the entire 15 years on the meds.  He is very happy now that the really horrible WD symptoms have been over for just about a month, and he sees the person who he knew as his girlfriend returning little by little.  You don't want to change into an SSRI personality, Waterfall.  I suppose I will always be wondering what 15 years of SSRIs have done to me and what the future holds, but seeing my husband excited and happy that I am off the meds is making me very happy, too.  I'm so glad you found this site only a few years after you started Celexa/citalopram.

 

I know you are tired and worried right now.  I do not mean to discount how you feel.  Fear that one needs the med is very, very common.  Why did I stay on it so long after all?  People say that particular fear is a WD symptom and it could be something that happens only in WD, but I believe it's also a side effect of the meds when we take them.  It's a normal fear that is outsized and more intense due to the med's effects.  Maybe it's an aspect of spellbinding.  If you can, think this positive thought: be glad that you are where you are right now -- off the SSRI.  I wish I had taken the SSRI a shorter time, and you don't have to wish that.  

 

Even if you have some rough patches ahead you are off of the SSRI, and believe me, that is a good thing.  I was struggling with cognitive issues for years before 2011 when I CT'd the Celexa.  I thought they were normal for me - confusion and a host of others.  I can't believe I ever thought that now that my mind is becoming more clear.  Now, I can see the cognitive difficulties might have been due to long term exposure to the meds.  I was only in my 30s, and I was under a lot of stress, but my inability to think straight should not have been that severe.  It was absurd for me to think the cognitive difficulties were normal after the education and testing I had completed and passed before I took the meds!  My husband confirms this, of course.

 

Have a good day,

 

Rosetta

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JanCarol

Hey Waterfall

 

Glad to hear you are staying at 1/4 tablet morning and evening.  If this is enough, if this is helping - then stay there.  You sound more stable again - so it sounds like the "least possible dose" is working.

 

Yes, it will be tempting to take PRN's - but - don't do it!  Not even a crumb!  

We taper more gently here than other benzo forums, so we'll try and make it as easy on you as possible.  Thank you for posting on the benzo side.  I see that Shep is already helping you out.  

 

Be sure and keep your emotions, symptoms, and your main journal here - the benzo side is for tapering only.  If she needs to, Shep will check here to see what is going on (you see how she put links to both on the first post of each one, so that we can move back and forth smoothly).  

 

22 hours ago, Waterfall said:

I'll have to read into that liquid dosing I saw mentioned 

somewhere. 

 

HERE on your thread.  Re-reading your thread is a great way to find hidden gems.  This site is huge and can be overwhelming to find what you need - so moderators point you to the threads you need.

 

I'll repost them here again:

 

How to Make a Liquid from Tablets or Capsule

 

Using an Oral Syringe and other Tapering Techniques 

 

Here, you can see a video of someone making a liquid:

 

 

6 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I "heard" that if you quote the moderator in your post she will be notified that she was quoted and will look at your thread.  That way you don't need to email her.  If JanCarol doesn't respond maybe you could try that.  

 

That's one way to do it.  You can highlight just the part you want to quote, and an option to "Quote this" will come up (so that your thread isn't full of long quotes)

Another way to do it is to put an ampersand in front of my username.  @JanCarol and you can select my avatar from a drop-down menu, and I will see that I've been "tagged."

I am around the site not very much, as I'm trying to establish my own life and website - but I'm passionate about drug recovery, so I can't stay away totally! 

So it helps to get a PM, a quote, or a tag to know that you want to talk to me.  Please don't abuse it, however - you can re-read your thread and learn a lot.  (like liquid tapering, was already on your thread).

 

22 hours ago, Waterfall said:

  It's hard not to 

doubt that I can actually live without pills some day.  That I'll develop the coping skills I need.

 

You can, and you will.  You're very nearly there!  Trust Shep to guide your tapering off of clonazepam.  I notice that she told you it is a very strong drug - 20x stronger than Valium.  

She'll get you there, and if you are proactive, and take charge at "undiagnosing" and "unpatienting" yourself, you'll do it.

You got this!

I hope you see the sun today.

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Waterfall

Thank you two again for posting.

I can't tell you enough how much it means to me.  

I just wanted you to know that while the last couple days were hard, in a 'I don't

know if I can do this.' kind of way, today

was more, 'This is hard, but I think, just

maybe, that I can handle this.'

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Waterfall

Really curious what a PRN is.  

Felt pretty rough again today. 

This morning I had trouble getting breakfast down. 

Had trouble staying awake after that, right up until lunch. 

My doctor wants me to work through a book called 

The Worry Workbook. 

So I looked at it for the first time with my Mom this afternoon. 

We talked a lot.  And cried a lot.  

The crying felt good. 

But I wonder if that made me feel worse this afternoon, 

or if that would have happened anyway. 

Anyway, I felt panicky this afternoon. 

Actually kinda around that 3:00 time again. 

Maybe that's a coincidence.  It's when I left my Mom's. 

It's also when I pick up the kids from school.  

Anyway, after that I felt kinda sick and dizzy,

and weak and achy after the panic mostly passed. 

Also been having a bit of a headache on and off. 

Plus the usual chest, back, and neck pain.  

Right now my hands are sweating as I type. 

I hope a down day or two will be followed by another up day or two. 

I'll take any kind of windows I can get.  

 

Still holding at 1/4 morning and night. 

Can't help worrying about whether that's the dose I should be taking. 

But I wanted to give it fair chance, which means sticking with it for a while. 

 

Also have a sore throat, noticed it briefly this morning, and again just now.  

Hopefully I'm not coming down with something, on top of everything else. 

 

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JanCarol

Hey Waterfall - 

 

On 10/01/2018 at 5:01 PM, Waterfall said:

'This is hard, but I think, just

maybe, that I can handle this.'

 

I was listening to a Danish lecture by Peter Goetzsche, about withdrawal.

 

He talked about benzos, and the foremost authority on Benzos in Denmark would not have allowed any reinstatement at all.  He only allows Benzos to go down.  That's the same as the Ashton Protocol.

 

I said we were more gentle here, and it's true. 

 

If a 1/2 reinstatement helps, then that's better.  I reckon it's hard - but it's not as hard as it was when you CT'd!  If you'd stayed there, you ran the risk of developing a protracted condition.  

You are lucky!  You can get this under control, and if you survive the worst of this, it will get better. 

It's still early days on your reinstatement, once you've reinstated for about 3 weeks, you will see better what it's going to be like long term.

 

The Worry Workbook sounds good - that sounds like CBT for anxiety.  And crying - is the best, especially when you are recovering from an antidepressant withdrawal.  It shows that you have access to your feelings, which is great!  Crying releases endorphins, and this is so healing for your nervous system.  Let it go, feel it fully, and then - if you need to - rest afterwards.

 

19 hours ago, Waterfall said:

Anyway, I felt panicky this afternoon. 

Actually kinda around that 3:00 time agai

 

If it's happening around the same time every day, it may have to do with your cortisol cycle.  Your clonazepam is nicely spaced out now, so it's not likely to be dropouts of the drug.  More likely to be your own natural cortisol cycle.  Can you say to yourself:  "Oh, my cortisol just fired," and separate the feelings in your body from the concept of "anxiety."  Just because your body just jumped, it doesn't mean that you are "anxious."

Claire Weekes talks about this.  Dr. Claire Weekes - Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System  

 

and remember that 3 minute  First Aid for Panic recording.  Download it to your phone so that you have it with you at all times.


As for the sore throat - we forget the simple things - gargle with salt water.  It may just be a histamine reaction as your body is destabilised.  If, after 3 days of gargling with salt water it doesn't improve, then you might have yourself checked for infection.

You are so brave for toughing this out!  Remember - same dose, same time - every day!

 

And I hope you see the sun today!

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Waterfall

Hey JanCarol.

 

Just wanted you to know,

I remember reading that post from

Claire Weekes before, but I really

appreciated reading it again.

Especially because the symptom that is

currently bothering me the most is that

feeling of heaviness.  I had been 

wondering if I was always going to feel 

so weak and so sore, and so... heavy!

 

I had a nasty bout of nausea and gas the

other night on Wednesday, and the rush

of cortisol is always at hand.  I really

appreciate the encouragement.

 

Tomorrow is a busy day, and it's hard not

to stress about it and how I'll make it 

through.  How I'll handle the rough bits,

or what I'll do if I crash a bit harder 

tomorrow, but I'm not going to die

tomorrow, so I'll face whatever comes, with whatever acceptance I can muster.

 

Wishing you all the best,

Waterfall.

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Waterfall

Oh, and I'll admit it, the mention of a

protracted condition scared me.

My current goal is to be more consistent

with the specific time that I take my

meds, and to try get more sleep.

Those are actually two separate 

thoughts I had in response to some things you said.

Also, looking forward to having my brain work better again.  Someday.

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JanCarol

Hey Waterfall - 

 

On 11/01/2018 at 5:51 PM, Waterfall said:

Really curious what a PRN is.  

 

Sorry, that's a medical term   PRN stands for the Latin (don't worry  I had to look it up) Pro Re Nata which means "as needed."

 

In psychiatric terms, these are extra doses that your doctor says it's okay to take - for pain, for anxiety, just whenever.  Some people are told, when they are given a benzo script, that they can take "up to" so many tablets a day, as needed.  PRN.    All the good studies say that it leads to abusive behaviour, causes more spikes and valleys in your plasma, and is very addictive.  Here's one study focusing on benzodiazapenes specifically.

 

Oh!  And I see that I forgot to give you the link on cortisol cycles

 

On 13/01/2018 at 6:06 PM, Waterfall said:

r what I'll do if I crash a bit harder 

tomorrow, but I'm not going to die

tomorrow, so I'll face whatever comes, with whatever acceptance I can muster.

.

Tomorrow, Tomorrow, think about tomorrow, tomorrow.  As I say to my little sister, "That's later."

Deal with what is on your plate now.

Acceptance is good - curiosity is even better.  What will it be?  What can I learn from it?

If it's heaviness and fatigue, learn to rest.  If it's restlessness and agitation, be curious - find the source if you can, and if you can - find ways to use it.  (turn anxiety into excitement:  Atlantic: I am Excited! Turn Anxiety into Excitement).
 

On 13/01/2018 at 6:09 PM, Waterfall said:

, the mention of a

protracted condition scared me

 

That's later.  MUCH later.  You are nowhere near that right now.   There may still be some residuals 5 years out.  Even with residuals (my sleep is still wonky, for example), you will be so grateful to be free that you won't mind them.  But talking about protracted now is wayyyyy premature.  You won't know for years.  If you look at my "success story" thread, I show that my symptoms were cut by 2/3 over 3 years time.  Look to the horizon, and realize that while it might guide your general direction,  it is still faraway.  It is more important to watch your feet right now so that you don't stumble.  Pay attention to what is in front of you.

 

On 13/01/2018 at 6:09 PM, Waterfall said:

My current goal is to be more consistent

with the specific time that I take my

meds, and to try get more sleep.

 

Just like that!  

 

Okay - for the sake of long-term record keeping - please put the date that you reinstated the clonazepam in your signature, so that we can track your progress from that date.

 

You've got a great attitude, and you can get through this!

 

I hope you see the Sun today.

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Rosetta

Waterfall,. How are you?  I hope you are feeling better. -- Rosetta

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