Downbutnotout: Started a bridge to get off effexor

[Downbutnotout]

My “ psychiatrist decided to get me off effexor by using the “Prozac bridge.” I got off it myself several years ago without much of a problem. I thought. Of course 5 months later I had a bad relapse and went back on it. 

 

Anyway she she got me down to 37 last week using 10 mg of Prozac. I went from 150 to 75 without any support. The 150 was making me hyper. I didn’t feel any major effects from that. 

 

As it so happens approval for tms ( trans magnetic stimulation) came through. This is 36 sessions of stimulating your brain with magnets. My insurance changed their minds when I appealed.

 

I have feeling Prozac is going to be bad news for me since it’s already kept me up and made me hyper. I’m doing the tms because I want to get over the depression without medication.

 

she said I could keep the 10 mg for the rest of the week or drop everything now. Would being on Prozac for one week at 10 mg cause a withdrawal.? And I have to worry about going off the Effexor without support.

Edited November 5, 2017 by baroquep

[baroquep]

Hi Downbutnotout,

 

I am so glad that you found Surviving Antidepressants before going any further in your taper.  Many people find Effexor very difficult to withdrawal from and in our experience the Prozac Bridge is not always successful.  No one is sure why it works for some, while for others it causes additional disruption to their central nervous system.  I've attached  link below so that you have an understanding of this phenomenon.  While it may seem that you have little difficulty coming off of Effexor several years ago, that you had a relapse five months later, tells me that this reaction was more likely due to protracted withdrawal / Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS) and not necessarily a relapse.  I am not sure how quickly you tapered off of Effexor previously but in our experience if the taper is too quick, it put you at risk of suffering from withdrawal syndrome after you stop the drugs.  

 

Surviving Antidepressants recommends tapering by 10% of your current dose with at a hold of at least four weeks before your next decrease.  The 10% taper recommendation is a harm reduction approach to going off psychiatric drugs.  Some people may have to taper at an even more conservative rate as they are very sensitive to even the smallest drops.  

 

Without having more information with respect to your drug/tapering it will be difficult to make any specific recommendations.  We ask all of our members to fill out a signature so that all of your information can be read at a glance.  This helps moderators determine you current situation and we would ask that you follow the instructions at the link below.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

 •    Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
 •    A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
 •    Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
 •    Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
 •    Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.

     
To get you started, and familiarized with the protocols followed by SA, I am linking a few topics so that you have a better understanding of what is recommended here and the steps that you can take to minimize your withdrawal and successfully discontinue Effexor.  

 

What is Withdrawal Syndrome?

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Protracted Withdrawal or PAWS (Post-Actute Withdrawal Syndrome)

 

The Prozac Switch or Bridging with Prozac
Tips for Tapering off Effexor/Effexor XR/Venlafaxine

 

I know I've given you a lot of information to digest, but encourage you to review the links so that you have a better understanding of what you are likely dealing with and so that you can make the most-informed decision about how you wish to discontinue Effexor.  If you have any questions or need clarification, please do not hesitate to post back here in your introduction topic and one of the moderators will stop by to help.

[Downbutnotout]

The problem is the psychiatrist I have insists on withdrawing me in 2 weeks. She doesn't give a care about what I think. Is she following wrong protocol? Why? This is a method I did find on the internet. If you keep the 2 drugs together too long you have to withdraw from both. This is the phelps method?

 

I want to get the tms started. She had me on 37 mg for one week and took me off 2 days ago. I was starting to get hyper with both. I am only in 10 mg if prozac right now. What can I do?  

 

I am anxious to get the trans magnetic stimulation started. It can start next week. Should I tell her I want to get back on the 75? I didn't know my appeal to the insurance company would go through. I would've just kept with the 75 that wasn't doing anything. She decided the Effexor wasn't working and I have to agree it pooped out. I don't feel that sick right now. It's the second day of being off the Effexor and just being on 10 mg if Prozac. 

 

My gene test showed that ssris and I dont get along well. 

 

Just horribly depressed which I've been for 5 long agonizing months. My life has been trashed and destroyed by these horrible drugs. I can't find joy at all. It's so sad. I can't even find joy with my 4 year old grandson who I dearly love or my children or my husband. 

 

What started the depression? I got fired from a volunteer job. I got into a fight with a house manager. Anyone else would've gotten over it in a month. I've let it destroy my life. 

 

Now I can't feel any joy or hope at all. Except for the tms. 

 

I was feeling a littke hope with the Prozac last week, but the pressure if the tms has made it difficult. I actually had one day where I felt like myself and periods of time when I felt relief. 

 

My incompetent psychiatrist had  me on lithium and lactimil . I am not bipolar. I said no on those two after trying them. I really need another psychiatrist but the tms is at Harding hospital where she is a psychiatrist. 

 

I do think my relapse was a bonified depression. 

Edited October 22, 2017 by Downbutnotout

[baroquep]

I guess you have no choice but to continue as you are and hope that the bridge does work for you.  I'd keep an eye on your symptom pattern so that you are aware if you start to develop any of the signs that you might be hit with withdrawal syndrome and be prepared to reinstate Effexor at a very small dose if this does happens.  It will be great if the bridge does work but probably best to be aware that it is not always successful so you can take the steps to minimize the discomfort.  Perhaps TMS therapy will help you to avoid having issues down the road, but I have no idea if this will either help or make things worse and doubt the doctors can answer this question either.  It would be a shame after getting approval from your insurance company for a therapy that just may work, that if you start to suffer withdrawal from Effexor, it would then be for naught. At least you will know, and the fact that you are here for answers, that you already have your doubts about the Prozac bridge, but at the very least you can be prepared if things don't go well.  

Really wish these doctors had the knowledge and experience to take people off of these drugs safely.  I'm not sure how long you have been on Effexor but I have been tapering it for over a year now and it is a beast to discontinue.  Even decreasing at 5% a month has been a challenge and withdrawal frightening and uncomfortable to say the least.  Knowing what I know about Effexor, and familiarizing myself with the information I found here, I declined to do the Prozac bridge as while it sounds good on paper, based on my experiences here, it rarely works and just makes things worse.  

 

When is your psychiatrist planning on stopping the Prozac?  

Is he/she familiar with withdrawal/discontinuance syndrome? 

When will you be starting TMS therapy?

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist
Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?
What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

[Downbutnotout]

They wanted me to start next Friday, but I don’t see how. I think I picked the worst psychiatrist I could ever find. I should’ve dumped her in July. I really don’t feel that bad right now. I guess I could find another psychiatrist and hold them off for a few weeks.i have until April to get this done. It’s really a shame when you can’t trust your doctor. I don’t know if going on this site is a good idea for me now. It’s making me more worried and miserable.im looking for some hope and I’m not finding it here.

[baroquep]

Try not to worry too much, my intent wasn't to frighten you, I just wanted you to be aware that you do have options if things don't go as well as the psychiatrist believes.  Just keep an eye on your symptoms.  If it were me, I'd wait to start the TMS therapy to ensure that you don't end up running into trouble trying to discontinue Effexor this way.  It would be a shame to start TMS and not get any benefit if the bridge doesn't work. 

[wantrelief]

Hi Downbutnotout,

 

My psychiatrist also wants me to try TMS.  I am considering as a future option and if insurance will pay.  My doctor told me that she had a patient that was able to get off of Effexor after she did the TMS.  Of course I don't know this patient's whole story and would like to know more but it sounded promising.  My doctor said that it has helped a few of her other patients as well although she has only had about 5 who have tried it.  I am curious to hear about your experience if you do go forward with the treatment.  

 

I am really sorry you are going through such a hard time and hope with whatever you decide, you feel better soon.

[Downbutnotout]

I just wish I hadn’t changed my medication recently, so I have to straighten it out before I start it. I didn’t think my appeal would’ve gone through or I wouldn’t have made a change. The only thing I can do is go back on the Effexor, but now I have the Prozac which I’ve taken for 2 weeks to deal with.

 

[baroquep]

Hi Downbutnotout, I am going to discuss your situation with the other moderators and get back to you will a collective opinion on what your best course of action might be.  Please don't panic or second guess yourself, the Prozac bridge does work for some people and I don't want you make any changes unnecessarily until you know for sure that the bridge hasn't been successful.  You have a benchmark for when your symptoms reappeared the last time you discontinued Effexor so you are one step ahead.   One of us with get back to you shortly.  

[Downbutnotout]

Thanks . I already emailed the  evil psychiatrist and told her maybe I should go back on the Effexor before the tms. I can’t feel unstable before I start it. I think she thinks it’s like giving up aspirin. Actually, I don’t feel that bad, but if course I’m anxious and depressed. I’m only taking 10 mg of Prozac right now. I was on 75 mg of Effexor 2 weeks ago. I was doing okay before the tms came up. It’s not like taking a walk in the park either. I hate psychiatrists, pills and The mental health system. 6 months ago I was relatively happy with my life. I’ve taken a big slide. Definitely discuss my situation. I appreciate it. This foolish psychiatrist suggested I give up everything. Prozac too. I’ve only taken 10 mg of that for 8 days. I’m hoping I don’t have a withdrawal from that too. 

[baroquep]

Yes, it's a pretty big thing to get approved for TMS through insurance and you'll want to get full benefit from it and not get derailed from a potential Effexor withdrawal. Can you please fill out your withdrawal history signature so that we have a good idea of how you came off of Effexor previously and how the psychiatrist is taking you off this time?  they all do it a bit differently and we'll need that info to provide our best educated advice on your situation.

 

22 hours ago, baroquep said:

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

 •    Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
 •    A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
 •    Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
 •    Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
 •    Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.

 

[Downbutnotout]

2years ago went off antidepressants in a week or two in August. 

 

Was okay till dec. started with anxiety got into huge depression. 

 

Went to a homeopathic dr  who who mixed up vitamins and supplements. I think she really messed me up. 

 

Went back to psychiatrist who who gave me Zoloft which is taken 20 years previously. The psychiatrist is incompetent . I finally got her to give me effexor and held steady for about 2 years. (75 mg) I think it might have been the placebo effect. I was irritable after the election. I got anxiety but it went away. 

 

Since j went back to her she tried to give me abilify which I refused. She gave me l methyl folate ( 15 mg hyper) lithium I took it for 10 days, lactimil. Now she decided to try prozac and take me off effexor. 

 

I just took 1 mg if lmethylfolate that I bought. It’s making me hyper. 

 

Since ive gotten the okay for  tms I’m about hysterical. The prozac had worked a little before. 

 

Im about ready to give up. I’m so tired of feeling this way. 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2017 by Downbutnotout

[bubble]

Hello Downbutnotout,

 

It is a lot of information to absorb so I was wandering if you had a chance to read through any of the threads baroquep posted for you?

 

For you and others who might be interested here is the thread where our members wrote about their experience using tms while in withdrawal. In summary, as everything it seems to be a mixed bag.

 

 

 

 

[Downbutnotout]

I made the mistake of listening to the buzz about prozac in 1992. I know that was the year because I was 42. I’m 67 now. I’ve been consistently taking drugs since that time.  

 

 I went off myself 2 years ago. I took less than 2 weeks. Maybe I shouldn’t have done that. The honeymoon lasted for 3 months, then I fell apart. Then I went to a natural doctor who threw vitamins and pills at me as irresponsibly as the psychiatrists. I found out ashawanda didn’t sit well with me. 

 

I had a relapse and went back on Effexor and it seemed to work. Maybe the placebo effect.  It was only 75 mg, but somebody fired me and I had a gigantic relapse on June 20 of this year. It’s been 5 months of  scaring myself with drugs. 

 

Anyway an evil psychiatrist upped my Effexor at my suggestion and I really had huge problems since then. She us a sweet woman but buts the drug thing fully. 

 

And maybe it has had some merit. It must have some value. 

 

Who knows? I may have to give in and go back to them . It wouldn’t be bad if I could tolerate them. They mostly make me hyper and feel such. 

 

I had had a genetic test that confirmed they’re not great for me. 

 

Thats how I got Tms approved by my insurance company. Transcranial magnetic therapy. 

 

To to help me get over my raging, caused if course by the high dose of Effexor, she had all kinds of great suggestions. Lithium because now she hung the title bipolar on me, borderline personality disorder. My favorite was lactimil which distorted my vision, and the latest prozac which made me hyper as hell. I slept 3 hours last night on 20 mg. This was to get Effexor, which I’ve been taking for at least 20 years, out if my system! 

 

She told me me I can just stop the prozac which I’ve been taking for 10 days, mostly at 10 mg easily. Yes right. I know it’s going to be hell.!!! Oh I’ve only been off effexor for 5 days. I’d gone from 150 to 75 for a couple of months. That wasn’t hard because the 150 made me really hyper. (And I’d taken it at that level for years! ) After only stepping me down to 37 mg for 7 days. “The prozac bridge.” However, I can’t tolerate 20 so I’m bridging with 10. 

 

This prozac is nasty. I don’t like getting energized at my age. Maybe she should’ve looked st my gene test that showed conflicts with my metabolism!

 

 I was always laid back. I got 3 hours if sleep last night. No problem for her! Who needs sleep? 

 

During this changeover I am taking an anxiety drug, propranol,  a beta blocker, that is not supposed to be addictive. But I’m sure it is! 

 

I’m starting tms nov 6. I want to be off the prozac by then. “ it has such a long Half life that it will just disappear.” 

 

I figure if they’re going to stimulate my brain, I don’t need prozac making me hyper. 

 

Is she not full of nonsense?   She honestly believes it! 

 

I am concerned I will never recover fully. 

 

Im hoping against hope that the Tms will help me. 

[MollyN]

Hi Downbutnotout,

 

I love your avatar name - shows a mighty spirit! I'm so sorry to read of downward spiral you've had to endure due, I'm guessing, to the original cold turkey stop of prozac - can you believe it was called 'the happy pills'! The withdrawal and subsequent drugging and search for answers to your suffering must have been horrible. Sadly you'll find your story replicated in journals all over this forum. I'm so glad your here and the moderators can help get you back on a safe footing to begin your healing xxx big hugs

 

I did giggle a bit about the drug addict line in your title - I ended up at Narcotics Anonymous during the worst of withdrawal, since I felt entirely on par in terms of suffering, with those poor souls. Although I don't think they thought my drugs were as cool as theirs in terms of street cred!

 

Welcome to SA, I'm so glad you're here! One of the moderators will come and post here for you soon with links and info about your specific situation to start you off xxxmollyn

[Downbutnotout]

I really don't know how I'm going to survive getting off of Prozac. I've only been on it for 10 days. I'm still getting through Effexor withdrawal. Only 6 days off it. I know I'm doing it wrong, but the Prozac was supposed to replace it. That's why I'm waiting till Friday to get off the Prozac. The psychiatrist didn't think I should take pills longer than that. She's a complete moron. If I do get on drugs again, I'm not going back to her. 

[Downbutnotout]

Help!!I can't tolerate the 20 and am only taking 10. I want to cut it out till the tms starts. Is this a huge mistake?  The 20 mg of Prozac hyped me up big time. I couldn't sleep. I obsessively emailed the evil psychiatrist all day. Is that a withdrawal symptom.? I'm sure she added obsessive compulsive on my chart. Asking her how to safely get off this pill. Remember I'm coming off of Effexor at the same time. I've only been off the 37 mg since last Friday. I'm guessing it's a mistake to get off the Prozac now. I'm thinking of just taking the Effexor 75 mg. 

 

I guess this isnt isn't the place to get advice about getting off this stuff 

 

tms is transcranial magnetic stimulation http://www.neurostar.com

 

 

Edited October 27, 2017 by ChessieCat
post moved to member's Intro

[MiguelFreeman]

You are at the rong section of the forum post this in the introduction part of the forum don't worry you will get better

 

Edited October 27, 2017 by ChessieCat
response to member in topic which has been moved to Intro topic

[ChessieCat]

Please simplify your drug signature.  Many of the mods experience brain fog as we are going through our own withdrawals and we like the signature to be nice and simple with just the drugs, dates and doses.  Having the signature like this means we can see the drug information at a glance without having to read through a paragraph to find the information we are looking for.  The following is the preferred format.  Please remember to update it whenever you make a change so it remains current.  Thank you.

 

 A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

[ChessieCat]

It would be better for the information which is in your signature can be copied and pasted as a post.

[Altostrata]

Hello, downbutnotout.

 

When you say Prozac makes you hyper, how do you know it's the Prozac? What time of day do you take each of your drugs, and at what dosage? Do you get "hyper" at particular times of day?

 

Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages.

 

You clearly don't like your psychiatrist. Do you communicate better with your GP or other doctor? Any doctor can prescribe these drugs, and may be more willing to help you go off them.

 

If methylfolate makes you hyper, don't take it.

 

Please stop trying to find drug solutions for your symptoms while you are going through this drug chaos. The symptoms may be side effects from the drugs or the drug changes you've made. The more drug changes you make, the more confusing the situation gets.

 

In any case, you're going to have to learn how to manage any emotional symptoms you get going off drugs. Please see

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

Neuro-emotions

[ChessieCat]

Here are some links which might be helpful:

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

Keep Notes on Paper

Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

[Downbutnotout]

Well, I’m going for tms a week from now. I’m sure the prozac was making me hyper. I was not feeling hyper before I started it. I couldn’t sleep for 24 hours after taking 20 mg. Zoloft has the same effect on me. And 150 mg if Effexor put me way over the edge. 

 

You have good suggestions though and I appreciate them. I believe you’re right. 

 

In 7 months I’ve gotten off lithium (10 days). Lamactil ( I took for about 2 weeks)  150 mg Effexor 2 months, 75 to 37 in one week. Prozac for 9 days, off on the 10th. 

 

The psychiatrist doing the tms told me to get off prozac. I’ve only taken it for 9 days. At 10 mg and one day at 20. 

 

So, I’m dealing with Effexor withdrawal at 2 weeks and now Prozac withdrawal? 

 

I dont have any physical symptoms with the Effexor, just anxiety and depression. 

 

Of course the tms psychiatrist said I’d only have effexor withdrawal for another week.  And prozac  has such a long Half life that it’s no big deal.  They both said that one. With certainty. 

 

Why are the doctors do uninformed? They obviously buy the half life theory. Are they all in the pockets of the fda and pharmacy companies? Are they all wrong completely. 

 

My sister is afraid I’ll get so depressed I’ll commit suicide. 

 

I feel like I'm in a corner because of the tms. 

 

Im planning to tough it out the next week, and see what happens. 

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

24 minutes ago, Downbutnotout said:

Why are the doctors do uninformed? They obviously buy the half life theory. Are they all in the pockets of the fda and pharmacy companies? Are they all wrong completely. 

 

These are insightful:

 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  We’re Trained To Misinform -The Drugs ARE Dangerous (6 minute video)

Interview:  Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher (51 minutes Gwen Olsen - ex pharmaceutical representative)

 

I watched this on YouTube last night: 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

This is Part 2 but I haven't watched it yet.  I have read his book Anatomy of an Epidemic.

 

 

[Altostrata]

5 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What time of day do you take each of your drugs, and at what dosage? Do you get "hyper" at particular times of day?

 

Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages.

 

Once you get approval for TMS, do you still need the psychiatrist?

[Downbutnotout]

No. But I’m having horrible withdrawal today. 

[Juan]

Hello Downbutnotout,

I'm sorry about your W/D I have experienced the hyperactivity on 150 of Effexor like you did, now I'm down to 112.50.

Can you please let me know about your experience with supplements and vitamins? what went wrong?

Get well soon, thanks

 

[Downbutnotout]

I’m in the middle of this crummy withdrawal. Be careful who you go to about the vitamins. They are as powerful as regular crummy drugs. Also, they’re not okayed by the fda.i had someone give me a ton at once. There are doctors out there who know what they’re doing for vitamins. Don’t go to an experimenter.

[Juan]

How is your sleep? What kind of pain are you suffering from?

Thanks for your advise about vitamins. I will go to see a doctor next week, he's a psychiatrist but works with supplements/vitamins, but I'm a little afraid of taking more things on top of Effexor and Remeron, once I taper them off I will be more open to take anything if I feel unstable or get horrible W/D.

 

[Downbutnotout]

Wish I could find a psychiatrist who works with vitamins. The one I work with, not much longer, has no clue about vitamins. She gave me extra folate; they do that with depressed people if they’re not metabolizing it in the gene test, it made me super hyper. She thought I was making this up. 

 

I wake up feeling horrendous. Anxiety , not actual pain. I haven’t had dizziness, nausea or electric shock feelings. Just horrible anxiety and depression. Exercise seems to help.  I still have the Prozac working, so I don’t know how much longer that is going to be working. I’m kind of afraid when that goes. I’ve been off effexor for 8 days. I got fired from a volunteer job 6 months ago, and it threw me into an awful depression. I was obsessing about it before the antidepressant uppage. I’m afraid that is coming back.

 

I just have to deal with it and accept it. It was rough. I guess I don’t have good coping mechanisms. It brought back other incidences when I got fired. So I have a lot of job failure and not being accepted going on.

 

I spent some time with my grandson tonight and actually had a little ( very little)  joy, something that’s been missing for 6 months. 

 

The evil psychiatrist used used me like a Guinea pig. I’ve been on lithium, lamactil, upped my Effexor till my head felt like it was going to explode, told me I had borderline personality disorder, told me I was bipolar ( took that one back) took my Effexor down from 15o to 75 to 37 too fast and took it away last week ( all in 6 months) .

 

The Prozac was about to make me super hyper so I pulled the plug on it. I’m still not sure if that was a mistake or not. When I upped it to 20 mg, It kept me up for 24 hours and I could tell 10 mg was going to make me super hyper. I got extremely agitated on 10 mg. .It shows big interactions with my metabolism on my gene test.apparently, I’m the only one who read the gene test. The psychiatrist doing the tms told me to pull the plug on it if I felt so agitated. 

 

I had had gotten off the Effexor when I wasn’t depressed and it worked for 3 months. I now realize I did it way too fast. Then I had a giant relapse. I complicated things by adding all the weird supplements and vitamins. I was adding as much as 10 a day under a “ natural doctors” direction. She is actually a pediatrician who should’ve stayed in the pediatric field. 

 

Be careful! 

 

I’m supposed to start tms next week. Transcranial magnetic stimulation. It would’ve been better not to be withdrawing from all this crap at the same time. I hope I didn’t blow this.

[Downbutnotout]

Exercising seemed to help./0watching the video did not cheer me up. Especially the part where the brain might not go back to the way it was. This could’ve been my story. I can’t tell you how many episodes I’ve had. Usually, they occurred after a situational upset.n

[bubble]

On ‎27‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 11:52 AM, ChessieCat said:

Please simplify your drug signature.  Many of the mods experience brain fog as we are going through our own withdrawals and we like the signature to be nice and simple with just the drugs, dates and doses.  Having the signature like this means we can see the drug information at a glance without having to read through a paragraph to find the information we are looking for.  The following is the preferred format.  Please remember to update it whenever you make a change so it remains current.  Thank you.

 

 A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

Downbutnotout, you have been asked a number of times to simplify your drug signature and include all the relevant information.

 

It seems that you have been on antidepressants for over 20 years. Recently you rapidly came off of a high dose of 150 mg Effexor and 10 mg of Prozac was supposed to replace it. 150 mg Effexor is 4 times what they call a minimum therapeutic dose and 10 mg is a minimum therapeutic dose of Prozac so not the equivalent of the Effexor you were on.

 

And your plan is to remove even that hoping that tms will somehow take all the withdrawal symptoms away. I know that this will not cheer you up but our task here is to provide you with information so that you can make informed decisions.

 

I believe this post is very important for you to read so that you begin to understand what is going on with your brain. If you stop 10 mg Prozac you are not in for a withdrawal from Prozac after a 2 week use (can't see that information from your signature). You will be withdrawing from over 20 years of antidepressants and in particular coming off rapidly of the high dose of the last one.

 

A lot of people, including healthcare practitioners; in fact, I guess, most people-- are operating from entirely the wrong paradigm, or way of thinking, about these meds. They're thinking of them like aspirin--as something that has an effect when it's in your system, and then when it gets out of your system the effect goes away.

 

That's not what happens with medications that alter neurotransmitter function, we are learning. What happens when you change the chemistry of the brain is, the brain adjusts its chemistry and structure to try to return to homeostasis, or biochemical and functional balance. It tries to restabilize the chemistry. For example: SSRI antidepressants work as "serotonin reuptake inhibitors." That is, they cause serotonin to remain in the space between neurons, rather than being taken back up into the cells to be re-used, like it would be in a normal healthy nondrugged brain. So the brain, which wants to re-establish normal signaling and function, adapts to the higher level of serotonin between neurons (in the "synapse", the space between neurons where signals get passed along).

 

It does this by removing serotonin receptors, so that the signal is reduced and changed to something closer to normal. It also decreases the amount of serotonin it produces overall. To do that, genes have to be turned on and off; new proteins have to be made; whole cascades of chemical reactions have to be changed, which means turning on and off OTHER genes; cells are destroyed, new cells are made; in other words, a complex physiologic remodeling takes place. This takes place over time. The brain does not grow and change rapidly. This is a vast oversimplification of the amount of adaptation that takes place in the brain when we change its normal chemistry, but that's the principle.

 

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

With multiple drugs and a history of drug changes and cold turkeys, all of this becomes even more complicated. And if a person is started on these kinds of drugs at an early age before the brain has ever completely established normal mature functioning--well, it can't be good. (All of which is why I recommend an extremely slow taper particularly to anyone with a multiple drug history, a history of many years on meds, a history of past cold turkeys or frequent med changes, and a history of being put on drugs at a young age.)

 

This isn't intended to scare people, but hopefully to give you some idea of what's happening, and to help you respect and understand the process so you can work with it; ALSO, because you are likely to encounter many, many people who still believe these drugs work kind of like aspirin, or a glass of wine, and all you need to do is stop and get it out of your system. Now you can explain to them that no, getting it out of your system is not the issue; the issue is, you need to regrow or at least remodel your brain. This is a long, slow, very poorly understood process, and it needs to be respected.

[ChessieCat]

6 hours ago, bubble said:

Downbutnotout, you have been asked a number of times to simplify your drug signature and include all the relevant information.

 

We need this information because we are trying to help you.

 

This is what happened to me.  I hope it helps you understand what psychiatric drugs do to the brain.

 

I reduced my Pristiq 100mg to 50mg.  I had extreme cog fog for 3 weeks and then I couldn't type.  Because I am a typist by profession I knew that something was very wrong.  Fortunately I had joined SA a few days prior to this happening and they had suggested increasing my dose.  When I couldn't type I went and took extra Pristiq and about 4 hours later I was able to type and my brain was clearing.  Since then I have been successfully tapering with minimal withdrawal symptoms.

 

Edited October 29, 2017 by ChessieCat

[ChessieCat]

If you need help organising your signature, please type the drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in a post and I will put it into order for you so you can copy and paste it into your signature.  If you would like to do this, please leave out the extra information.  Just provide drugs, doses and dates.

 

What you currently have in your signature can be copied and pasted into a post before you change your signature so the we will still have that information.

 

Edited October 29, 2017 by ChessieCat

[Altostrata]

downbutnotout, did you stop taking Prozac? It's not a good deal to just stop it, even though it didn't seem to be helping. It could make your withdrawal syndrome worse.

 

If 10mg was making you hyper, please try 5mg rather than jumping off.

 

There are a bunch of misconceptions in your situation:

 

1) Prozac does not always work as a bridge to go off Effexor.

 

2) It sound like you have withdrawal syndrome from going off Effexor. You can have this even if you're taking Prozac.

 

3) Vitamins aren't a reliable way to go off drugs; if they were, we'd have everyone on vitamins.

 

4) We haven't seen TMS reliably relieve withdrawal syndrome.

 

How much Effexor are you taking now? I can't tell from your signature.