kesh: akathisia, parasomnia, anxiety

[kesh]

Last night the restlessness stopped, changed to that high, tingly energised feeling that I don't find pleasant due to it feeling so close to the restlessness. After watching some TV with mum I slept very well. Woke at 5am not feeling restless/akathisia and then dozed until 9.30 am. I'd wake up feeling floating anxiety, almost like electrical sparks in my brain, tell myself it was alright and return to sleep. Happened several times.

 

This morning feels like the worst levels of anxiety before I got medicated, and also just before my valium cut kicked in 2 weeks ago. That is, very tolerable.

 

Moderate tinnitus. Also tolerable. 

 

Meds as before. 

[kesh]

A day free of akathisia. Let's see what tomorrow brings. Free floating anxiety, sleep during acupuncture, the slightly pleasant antidepressant feeling in evening. Less cigarettes today.

[UnfoldingSky]

kesh, just stopped by to see how you were doing.  Good to hear you had an aka free day, and wishing you another tomorrow.

 

Warm regards,

 

US

[kesh]

2 hours ago, UnfoldingSky said:

kesh, just stopped by to see how you were doing.  Good to hear you had an aka free day, and wishing you another tomorrow.

 

Warm regards,

 

US

Hi, US. Afraid not. Akathisia started at about 5am as it does. It must have been pretty low level as I managed to sleep through it until 9am. But now, at 9.30am, it's becoming intolerable. Well, maybe. Sometimes hard to know how much is akathisia and how much is panic about the akathisia. Maybe this feeling is what some people call morning cortisol spikes. Wish it was something I could control with relaxation exercises. 

 

Had trouble getting to sleep last night, but did sleep by about 3am. This surprised me. Greatly relieved.

 

Tinnitus today, seems to be a new symptom of last few days. Also heart is a little fast. Maybe I am getting tolerance to the beta blockers. 

 

Meds as before. 

 

 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Kesh,

 

1 hour ago, kesh said:

Sometimes hard to know how much is akathisia and how much is panic about the akathisia. Maybe this feeling is what some people call morning cortisol spikes. Wish it was something I could control with relaxation exercises. 

 

Yes, difficult to always know what is what.  As far as the akathisia, panic about, or morning cortisol spikes.  Have you seen this one?  Ha, it looks like you have.......I'll leave the link anyway.  The trauma and tension release exercise above your post looked possibly helpful?  Are you doing the acupuncture daily then?    And then I see you have had a couple of better days or part days which looks/sounds good.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/32-akathisia-vs-restlessness-anxiety-agitation/

 

[kesh]

I am getting, so far, days of complete release or days where akathisia stops by the afternoon. Not had to go to bed and try and sleep with akathisia since my rapid cut to 2.5mg of citalopram.

 

I looked at that thread when I first joined but will look again as I have forgotten what it said.

 

I haven't done that exercise, I usually go for long walks which eases it. I have tried breathing and guided relaxation, but I found them impossible. 

 

Thanks for the help.

 

 

 

 

[kesh]

2 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Are you doing the acupuncture daily then? 

 

Oh. Missed this bit. Three times a week. 

[kesh]

So today is the worst day in weeks. Akathisia since waking with maybe the occasional half hour semi window. I may have to face a night time with akathisia, which is going to be very hard to deal with. 

 

I thought I had got to a level that was just about tolerable. 

 

Very scared right now.

[Rosetta]

Hi, Kesh,

 

Thanks for visiting me!  I'm glad to see you have had some relief from the Akathisia and cortisol spikes.

 

As to your question on my thread:. How do we know which is which -- cortisol spike produced anxiety and Akathisia of the mind?  For me that question didn't arise until after the worst of it was over, and I suspect the worst is over for you, too.  In the thick of it there is no higher reasoning going on is there?  The sleep improvement and ease of Akathisia in the afternoon is an excellent sign for you, I believe.  

 

You may have days like today when it comes back, but don't despair.  If you are like me, soon it will always ease in the late afternoon/early evening.  After that you may start to notice how much less intense it is and how much less frequently it happening.  Sleeping without akathisia is so important, I think.  Much healing must take place when sleep is restorative.  

 

Please see my thread for an "answer" to your question.  In reality, I don't know the answer, but I do have a theory.

 

I hope you have a calm day today.

 

Rosetta

 

[kesh]

Was a tough day, but thanks Rosetta.

 

Something interesting happened this evening. I basically broke down, and released tears, rage, fear, despair, quite vocally and physically. I have thought that such things don't really touch akathisia, that the normal calm after the release is not a process that's working in our broken brains, but I seem to feel better now. Not 100%, but better.

[UnfoldingSky]

10 hours ago, kesh said:

Was a tough day, but thanks Rosetta.

 

Something interesting happened this evening. I basically broke down, and released tears, rage, fear, despair, quite vocally and physically. I have thought that such things don't really touch akathisia, that the normal calm after the release is not a process that's working in our broken brains, but I seem to feel better now. Not 100%, but better.

 

Good to hear it actually was helpful to release the emotions. I know what you mean about it seeming not to help to cry etc when we have akathisia, it never did seem to help me when I had it. I think it's a good sign then that you can get some relief from it.  Sorry your day was so hard though otherwise.

[kesh]

Thanks US.

 

 I slept ten hours, lots of zappy dreaming and dozing. Today feeling a bit sped up. Sped up akathisia style. 

 

Meds as before.

[kesh]

The akathisia was building, or perhaps it's anxiety, so I decided to try and lie down and meditate. I watched the urges to move, to do something. I told them it was unnecessary, that I was safe. I considered every minute I could lay still as success. That each success rewired my brain away from akathisia.

 

I have tried this before and have not lasted five minutes. The urge to move is resisted, but never recedes. This time it worked. I think I lay down for an hour and at the end rolled over and napped for 5 minutes.

 

This is twice in 24 hours I have found release from akathisia through something that I did. It must be lessening. We shall see.

[Rosetta]

Kesh, 

That's wonderful.  I think having a hard cry used to help me, too.  It certainly helped with the anxiety a lot.  It must have helped the Akathisia of the mind because I remember feeling calm after a cry. These memories were not formed very well.  I suppose we are supposed to forget misery.  At one time I believe I was able to remember that quite easily.  I remember letting myself cry and wishing I would get to the point I could cry hard.  

 

I'm more thrilled that relaxation is helping you.  That must mean you are tapping into a source of hormones or neurotransmitters that affect Akathisia!!  Stupendous!

 

Rosetta

[kesh]

The low level akathisia ended about 3pm. At 3.30pm I felt happy, normal. Acupuncture was at 4pm and as usual I slept through it, even though the reflexology foot massage.

 

Afterwards anxiety built up. Low level but annoying, no akathisia. Watched a lot of TV. Had a brief cry. It's now midnight and time for bed, and perhaps the anxiety is fading a little. 

 

Meds as before. 

[UnfoldingSky]

kesh, it's so wonderful to hear you were able to help the akathisia with a relaxation technique.  Good to hear your night wasn't a restless one either. 

 

Warm wishes,

US

[kesh]

Thanks US. Tried again this morning and it didn't really work.

 

Today I awoke feeling fluish. Probably not influenza proper. Not sure how I will cope with this with akathisia. I have to rest as exhausted, but am compulsively restless. Normally I walk of the restlessness. 

 

Trying not to panic. 

 

At least I slept well.

[kesh]

I tried my relaxation exercise again and it worked. Or, as my pessimistic brain might think, it coincided with the timing of my usual akathisia ending.

 

This time I imagined every restless, compulsive urge to move as a difficult knot to unpick and release. They say such things rewire the brain, so I am hopeful. 

 

I'm also wondering about timing. Lately I wake with akathisia, have my citalopram a few hours later, and a few hours after the akathisia is usually gone. But not always. Sometimes I have whole days without it, and sometimes have it most of the day.

 

After the relief of it passing I am often left with depression and anxiety about my general situation. 

 

 

[Rosetta]

2 hours ago, kesh said:

I tried my relaxation exercise again and it worked. Or, as my pessimistic brain might think, it coincided with the timing of my usual akathisia ending.

 

This time I imagined every restless, compulsive urge to move as a difficult knot to unpick and release. They say such things rewire the brain, so I am hopeful. 

 

I like that idea, Kesh.  It is so exhausting on a level I have never experienced.  Your body has used so much energy -- especially emotional energy (if there is such a thing) -- that depression and anxiety are the likely result.  Maybe there's a dietary solution to ease this affect effect of Akathisia.  Maybe a protein and carb mix that gives your body immediate energy without setting you up for a carb peak and crash later?  Just a thought.  I had a lot of blood sugar issues when I had Aka.  Now that I think about why, it makes sense that I was feeling low blood sugar and physical exhaustion as if I had exercised without breakfast.

[kesh]

3 hours ago, Rosetta said:

when I had Aka.

I love that you and several others here are living proof that aka ends. Well in a way I am proof. Because my aka only lasts half the day, and sometimes I get days free.

 

I am doing my best to eat right and keep well, else I think this would take a toll on my body.

[kesh]

Woke up at 5am with the beginnings of aka, managed to sleep until 7am. Akathisia and panic/anxiety work as a team and sometimes it is hard to separate how much agitation is caused by one or the other. When I awake from pleasant sleep and dreams the anxiety hasn't begun, so I can examine the akathisia alone.

 

Mental/internal akathisia was quite strong this morning. My thoughts are restless and jump about, too fast to be coherent. Very frightening.

 

Wish I didn't have flu, else I would go for a long walk.

 

Last night I tried to think about trust in my recovery. Fight off the hopeless feelings that I will be ill forever.

 

Meds as before. 

[kesh]

More of my journal of misery.

 

So the akathisia stopped around midday, during my unknotting exercise. The afternoon was mostly anxiety, sometimes the waves were pretty strong for half an hour or so. Seems to be lessening now.

 

I'm wondering if the akathasia is interdose withdrawal of citalopram. I'm at a dose where the dose/response curve is pretty steep, so in 24 hours my serum level's drop of about two-thirds might be having quite an impact. I might try, slowly, spreading the dose throughout the day. Stability is what the brain needs.

[kesh]

Oh, also, I cannot WAIT to feel well again.

[Rosetta]

11 minutes ago, kesh said:

Oh, also, I cannot WAIT to feel well again.

 

Ditto!  

25 minutes ago, kesh said:

I'm wondering if the akathasia is interdose withdrawal of citalopram. I'm at a dose where the dose/response curve is pretty steep, so in 24 hours my serum level's drop of about two-thirds might be having quite an impact. I might try, slowly, spreading the dose throughout the day. Stability is what the brain needs.

 

That's interesting.  I wonder what a Mod would say?  Maybe one of them knows of a person who tried that.  If that's true, that citalopram can cause interdose WD, then, wow!  How low does the dose have to be for this to happen -- do you know?

[kesh]

15 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

 

Ditto!  

 

That's interesting.  I wonder what a Mod would say?  Maybe one of them knows of a person who tried that.  If that's true, that citalopram can cause interdose WD, then, wow!  How low does the dose have to be for this to happen -- do you know?

There's a thread

 

 

About half way down there are some graphs. Basic idea is dose changes from say 40mg to 5mg of citalopram might change the serotonin transporters occupied from, say, 75% to 55% (can't see actual numbers, on phone), but the seemingly small drop from 5mg to 0mg suddenly becomes steep and covers the drop in serotonin transporters occupied from 55% to 0%. So in this range the interdose drop might make a big difference. 

 

But there's a lot of unknowns. Maybe brain half life is longer than serum half life, so the short term blood changes won't affect brain changes much. 

 

We can only experiment I guess. And very carefully. 

[Rosetta]

Good luck, Kesh.  I'm glad you have SA for all this info!!  It's all so complicated with these meds, isn't it?  

[kesh]

A night of ok sleep until 5am, then being bounced in and out of fever dreams and waking in high anxiety each time. No aka, or just masked by fluish exhaustion. 

 

Feel terrible. Combination of flu my psych med condition is pretty hard to cope with. 

 

Looking forward to this hell being over.

[kesh]

Now I feel fairly normal for someone with flu. I'll take that gladly. 

[kesh]

Aka appeared briefly and manageably for half an hour or so.

[Frogie]

2 hours ago, kesh said:

Aka appeared briefly and manageably for half an hour or so.

What do you do when you get akasthisia? I've had it like 4 times now but only in my knees.

 

Thanks!

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[kesh]

21 minutes ago, Frogie said:

What do you do when you get akasthisia? I've had it like 4 times now but only in my knees.

 

Thanks!

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

 

I cant imagine having it in a part of my body, it's basically in me, the compulsive restlessness. When it was bad, I basically felt like ending everything. Go for endless walks and chain smoke. Cry endlessly.

 

Lately it's been much milder, so I have tried to do the relaxation/imaging exercise described above. 

[Frogie]

5 minutes ago, kesh said:

 

I cant imagine having it in a part of my body, it's basically in me, the compulsive restlessness. When it was bad, I basically felt like ending everything. Go for endless walks and chain smoke. Cry endlessly.

 

Lately it's been much milder, so I have tried to do the relaxation/imaging exercise described above. 

I'm glad your's is much better. I have figured out that if I take Phenergran for nausea (which I have had since starting my taper), after about 3 days I get it, but only in my knees.

 

I put magnesium cream on my knees and put weights on them. It helps, but I'm not seeing the exercise that you are talking about? I apologize...

 

I quit smoking 2 years ago in March, but I think about smoking when this happens. 

 

I don't cry, but I want to dig my knees off my body!

 

If you could point me in the right direction for the exercise I would really appreciate it!

 

I hope it stays away for both of us!

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[kesh]

8 minutes ago, Frogie said:

I'm glad your's is much better. I have figured out that if I take Phenergran for nausea (which I have had since starting my taper), after about 3 days I get it, but only in my knees.

 

I put magnesium cream on my knees and put weights on them. It helps, but I'm not seeing the exercise that you are talking about? I apologize...

 

I quit smoking 2 years ago in March, but I think about smoking when this happens. 

 

I don't cry, but I want to dig my knees off my body!

 

If you could point me in the right direction for the exercise I would really appreciate it!

 

I hope it stays away for both of us!

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

Phenergran is dangerous stuff. Antinausea meds, antipsychotics and antihistamines are very close chemically. Phenergran is all three.

 

I describe the exercise (I invented it myself) in a couple of posts on this page. 

 

Yeah, I hope it stays away, it's hell.

 

Take care.

[Frogie]

3 minutes ago, kesh said:

Phenergran is dangerous stuff. Antinausea meds, antipsychotics and antihistamines are very close chemically. Phenergran is all three.

 

I describe the exercise (I invented it myself) in a couple of posts on this page. 

 

Yeah, I hope it stays away, it's hell.

 

Take care.

I have taken it for years and it is just now causing problems. I'm not taking it anymore. If I have to take anything scallywag suggested Dramamine?

 

I will look for your posts for the exercises.

 

I hope it does stay away, it is hell!

 

Thanks again!

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Rosetta]

Hi Kesh, I'm so happy you are getting relief. That is wonderful!!  In time, it will be a bad memory, Kesh.

 

Hi, Frogie, Pardon me for "eavesdropping."  I wanted to hurt myself when I had aka, too.  I won't say how, and I knew deep down that it wouldn't help.  In fact, it will get us committed, right?  We don't need that kind of "help," that we know for sure!!  Aka is really like nothing else, but it's a bit like having a migraine and thinking that "if only there were a way to relieve the pressure in my head .  . ."  That's all I can compare to aka.  --- Rosetta

[ChessieCat]

2 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

An accurately reported symptom pattern relative to when you take your drugs and their dosages will enable us to determine if you are having interdose withdrawal symptoms.

 

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