Hallowas: Extremely exhausted but awake - Mechanism? What to do?

[Hallowas]

Hey guys,

 

I'm new to this forum and I can't take it anymore so I want to keep it as short as possible as I have no energy whatsoever and this would be the most important issue to fix.

 

I took remeron for a few days and quit without taper and also had quetiapine for a week in a psych ward withouth withdrawal either... that was 4 months ago

 

Since then progressively I developed akathisia which seems like went away now but the problem is... I am extremely tired and extremely awake at the same time and I've lost ENORMOUS amounts of energy due to this.. where my consciousness is reduced too 1/10 of what it usually is as well as cognitive abilities because if I just slept badly for a few days.... I couldn't compenste for the lack of sleep by lying down or so because nothing would happen... I'd just lie there with my thoughts and wouldn't reach the next state of relaxation where I'd at least could compensate ffor the lack of sleep...... the same is also with sleep... I lie there... and at first I just wouldn't sleep at all... now months later it's like I'm so exhausted that I just fall into a coma or so at night... where I'm just "sleeping" but my brain feels on all the time... like I feel as if I had no deep sleep at all.. and this went on forever now.. just losing more and more energy each week...

 

Can somebody explain the mechanism as to why this happens? which brain parts are involved? is this a dopamine or serotonin issue? It is driving me mad and it is seriously killing me because my brain keeps me awake all the time and at the same time I'm beyond exhausted and can't do anything....

 

Normally when I'm tired... I get over that tired feeling by just laying down... but I won't doze of or anything... brain just stays awake and eats energy...

 

I used benzos for this but it doesn't seem to make a difference at all... and now I'm just addicted... 

 

 

I feel I need meds to solve this issue.... I have chronic fatigue syndrome.. was tired and exhausted all the time and was in bed half the day... now I have this issue here where I'm exhausted and can't sleep or relax or compensate in any way.... 

 

What's the mechanism and what should I do? Energy reserves are completely exhausted but body is still keeping me wide awake... hows that even possible... 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Hi Hallowas and welcome to SA,

 

Q:  Have you taken ANY psychiatric drugs before the ones mentioned in your post?  It is important that we know your drug history.

 

We ask all members to create a drug signature so we can see your history at a glance.  Please use the following format:

 

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

Problems sleeping is a common problem.  Here are SA's topics:

 

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Sleep Hypnosis, Guided Meditations, Calming Videos
 

This is your own introduction topic where you can ask questions and journal your progress.

[Hallowas]

Just created a signature and wanted to expand on it too as it wouldn't fit normally.

 

Aug 27 - Sept 1, 2017 (Mirtazapine 3,5mg first day, 7,5 second, 15 third then back to 7,5 then stopped taking after 5 days in total because of personality changes, no taper)

 

Sept 2017 Sporadic intake of mirtazapine once in a while because of sleep problems that developed weeks later... intake sometimes on 2 consecutive days.. sometimes not at all

 

Sept 26 - Octobre 3 (Still occoasional mirtazapine at 3,5mg, but from Sept 26 - Octobre 3 Quetiapine 50mg for sleep, immediate development of akathisia 4. day I took 150... immediate symptoms of all kinds of dyskinesia, akathisia etc... continued taking 50mg at night... still strong akathisia but didn't know what it was at that time, also visual problems started to develop)

 

Octobre 6 - Octobre 30 (Still had akathisia & tried to take mirtazapine some days then go off and on... maybe took it 5-6 times thinking it's withdrawal akathisia & thinking it would help me with sleep but didn't happen. Also tried anticholinergic for akathisia and sleep but didn't help. Took some diazepam for sleep from my psychiatrist but didn't help too ) I basically haven't really slept since Sept 26th & the introduction of quetiapine... on top of that I got some dyskinesia which dissapeared later...

 

Novembre-Decembre Still akathisia and couldn't sleep... out of desperation started using baclofen 5mg at night... which helped me sleep every other night...I steadily increased dosage till 25mg baclofen per night... at the same time got prescriped Cyproheptadine because I thought I was having serotonin syndrome... it helped with sleep a bit... altough I stopped having deep sleep since taking quetiapine... Took Cyproheptadine for two weeks then stopped.

 

Decembre Somewhere in the middle of the month I had my last baclofen tablet and then went to the doctor to get an alternative for sleep. Got flurazepam 27,4mg and have been taking it every day since this day. (not tapered of baclofen but just changed to flurazepam))

 

Decembre 18 - Now Started taking clozapine 12,5mg because my girlfriend told me I am psychotic and though I need to take something. So I took 12,5mg clozapine at 18 and 19th decembre and continued to take it... I think it made me sleep better immediately but I have forgotten whether I took it every single day or sporadically sometimes... I think I took it for a week then stopped taking it for a day or so then resumed... the sleep deprivation really messed up A lot... I don't fully know... anyway... I really stopped taking it a week ago because I got a cold and got high inflammatory so my blood values looked weird but doc said I could continue... Sp I was kinda off clozapine for  5 days and was kind of manic & couldn't sleep at all... but very very exhausted... I was again having 3 nights without deep sleep at all.. feeling like I was asleep but being aware of it...then when I took clozapine again it seems like I had deep sleep for 2 days after taking it... didn't take it anymore after that and no deep sleep again... just extremely exhausted I go to bed I have a few dreams but no deep sleep & wake up always like haven't slept in 10 days... On top of that I am having very weird issues with my eyes... like everything is kind of blurred... I can't look straight at what I'm looking at in order to read it... and the processing is kinda off... I have light sensitivity & light perception issues that got worse over time... like my eyes & light feels completely off.

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by ChessieCat
added spacing

[ChessieCat]

You might find some helpful information in SA's topic:  Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

[Hallowas]

Should I try to reinstate something?

 

[Hallowas]

Also what's happening to my vision? Just after starting quetiapine and quitting I remember I had more and more trouble reading. I went to see the eye doctor like 5-6 times and everything was perfect....

But it just further deteriorated like I can't read normally anymore I need to compensate by looking differently at words etc... it's so strange.

[Hallowas]

Hi,

 

I had some problems with my blood work previously while being on clozapine. I've been on it for 3 weeks or so and not 100% regularly if you can see my signature.

 

I had high inflammatory markers which is unusual for me so I stopped taking the medication a week ago. Haven't slept well and had some rebound reactions since then.

 

Should I reinstate it again now? I mean the dose is low and I haven't been on it for too long...

 

But I think it made my eye problems from the other drug withdrawals worse or the withdrawal.... (blurred/unfocused vision/difficulty reading/light sensitivity etc...)

 

I'd like some help. Also maybe look at my signature I think I could need some more help?

 

Thanks

[Hallowas]

Should I try to reinstate something?

Any help?

[Hallowas]

bump

[nz11]

On ‎1‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 11:26 AM, ChessieCat said:

Have you taken ANY psychiatric drugs before the ones mentioned in your post?  It is important that we know your drug history.

 

bump back to you

[nz11]

Welcome to sa Hallowas

Why did you go to a psych ward 4 months ago.

This might come as a surprise but these are not aspirins . They are very dangerous life altering chemicals. Getting involved with them is also perilous from many angles one might end up listening to voices of family or friends who are not aware of their dangers and effects and give you unfortunate directions.

[nz11]

Do you have any other symptoms apart from sleep issues and vision issues?

 

 

[Hallowas]

9 hours ago, nz11 said:

Welcome to sa Hallowas

Why did you go to a psych ward 4 months ago.

This might come as a surprise but these are not aspirins . They are very dangerous life altering chemicals. Getting involved with them is also perilous from many angles one might end up listening to voices of family or friends who are not aware of their dangers and effects and give you unfortunate directions.

 

I thought I had neurological issues.. not knowing it was mirtazapine withdrawal.

 

That's exactly what happaned... I was so weak psychologically that I listened to friends... 

[Hallowas]

9 hours ago, nz11 said:

Do you have any other symptoms apart from sleep issues and vision issues?

 

 

 

I lost like 10 times the energy.... my conscioussness is 1/10 than it previously was... tinnitus... vestibular dysfunction... I feel semi-consciouss most of the time neither awake nor asleep.... the visual issues I also percieve as pretty dramatic... initially I had akathisia and a little tardive dyskinesia.. & strong cortisol flashes... but I don't know.. now I feel completely exhausted all the time not knowing what to do...

 

I'm on nothing now currently... except on flurazepam as mentioned...

 

I wonder whether I should reinstate something as I am losing energy week for week WAY to fast... this is beyond the chronic fatigue I have known...because ever since those meds I couldn't relax or recharge strongly where I could get energy back once exhausted.... also vision problems seemed to have worsened after abruptly stopping clozapine because of weird blood work results..

[nz11]

Okay so  what date did You first start taking remeron eg 1jan 2003?please advise and the dose

[Hallowas]

18 minutes ago, nz11 said:

Okay so  what date did You first start taking remeron eg 1jan 2003?please advise and the dose

Aug 27 - Sept 1, 2017 (Mirtazapine 3,5mg first day, 7,5 second, 15 third then back to 7,5 then stopped taking after 5 days in total because of personality changes, no taper)

 

Sept 2017 Sporadic intake of mirtazapine once in a while because of sleep problems that developed weeks later... intake sometimes on 2 consecutive days.. sometimes not at all

 

Sept 26 - Octobre 3 (Still occoasional mirtazapine at 3,5mg, but from Sept 26 - Octobre 3 Quetiapine 50mg for sleep, immediate development of akathisia 4. day I took 150... immediate symptoms of all kinds of dyskinesia, akathisia etc... continued taking 50mg at night... still strong akathisia but didn't know what it was at that time, also visual problems started to develop)

 

Octobre 6 - Octobre 30 (Still had akathisia & tried to take mirtazapine some days then go off and on... maybe took it 5-6 times thinking it's withdrawal akathisia & thinking it would help me with sleep but didn't happen. Also tried anticholinergic for akathisia and sleep but didn't help. Took some diazepam for sleep from my psychiatrist but didn't help too ) I basically haven't really slept since Sept 26th & the introduction of quetiapine... on top of that I got some dyskinesia which dissapeared later...

 

Novembre-Decembre Still akathisia and couldn't sleep... out of desperation started using baclofen 5mg at night... which helped me sleep every other night...I steadily increased dosage till 25mg baclofen per night... at the same time got prescriped Cyproheptadine because I thought I was having serotonin syndrome... it helped with sleep a bit... altough I stopped having deep sleep since taking quetiapine... Took Cyproheptadine for two weeks then stopped.

 

Decembre Somewhere in the middle of the month I had my last baclofen tablet and then went to the doctor to get an alternative for sleep. Got flurazepam 27,4mgand have been taking it every day since this day. (not tapered of baclofen but just changed to flurazepam))

 

Decembre 18 - Now Started taking clozapine 12,5mg because my girlfriend told me I am psychotic and though I need to take something. So I took 12,5mg clozapine at 18 and 19th decembre and continued to take it... I think it made me sleep better immediately but I have forgotten whether I took it every single day or sporadically sometimes... I think I took it for a week then stopped taking it for a day or so then resumed... the sleep deprivation really messed up A lot... I don't fully know... anyway... I really stopped taking it a week ago because I got a cold and got high inflammatory so my blood values looked weird but doc said I could continue... Sp I was kinda off clozapine for  5 days and was kind of manic & couldn't sleep at all... but very very exhausted... I was again having 3 nights without deep sleep at all.. feeling like I was asleep but being aware of it...then when I took clozapine again it seems like I had deep sleep for 2 days after taking it... didn't take it anymore after that and no deep sleep again... just extremely exhausted I go to bed I have a few dreams but no deep sleep & wake up always like haven't slept in 10 days... On top of that I am having very weird issues with my eyes... like everything is kind of blurred... I can't look straight at what I'm looking at in order to read it... and the processing is kinda off... I have light sensitivity & light perception issues that got worse over time... like my eyes & light feels completely off.

[nz11]

okay thanks for clarifying that.

 

[Hallowas]

Still some advice needed

[nz11]

Some drug sig are easier to follow than others. The easy ones have date, drug, dose  

 

This is what I would do if I were you....I would vow to never take another psychiatric drug ever again.

I would also look at tapering of the sleep aid flurazepam. 

I would not panic regarding sleep issues or eye issues or fatigue issues. These will resolve in time by themselves. They don't need a chemical carpet bombing to render them silent. 

[Hallowas]

13 hours ago, nz11 said:

Some drug sig are easier to follow than others. The easy ones have date, drug, dose  

 

This is what I would do if I were you....I would vow to never take another psychiatric drug ever again.

I would also look at tapering of the sleep aid flurazepam. 

I would not panic regarding sleep issues or eye issues or fatigue issues. These will resolve in time by themselves. They don't need a chemical carpet bombing to render them silent. 

 

 

Thanks a lot for your response.

 

I am going to taper the flurazepam... it's just that it's been 3 months since that stuff with the eyes started... and it didn't get better so I was thinking of reinstating something idk..

[Hallowas]

I am thinking of reinstating.. remeron... This is where vision trouble originally started. It gets worse and worse every week. I can't handle it anymore. Advice needed.

[Altostrata]

On 1/15/2018 at 3:22 PM, Hallowas said:

Aug 27 - Sept 1, 2017 (Mirtazapine 3,5mg first day, 7,5 second, 15 third then back to 7,5 then stopped taking after 5 days in total because of personality changes, no taper)

 

Hello, Hallowas. Was the above the first time you took a psychiatric drug? Why did you take mirtazapine? Were you already having sleep problems?

 

What are you taking every day, and at what times?

[Hallowas]

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Hello, Hallowas. Was the above the first time you took a psychiatric drug? Why did you take mirtazapine? Were you already having sleep problems?

 

What are you taking every day, and at what times?

 

Hi, I updated my signature.

 

It wasn't the first time but I never had problems before as I never took anything for more than 3 days. I was on valproate/lamotrigine 3 years ago for a few weeks but hat no problems stopping cold turkey.

 

I took mirtazapine because I developed reflux that interfered with sleep.

 

I had sleep problems before because of allergies.

 

I am now only taking flurazepam 17,1mg split into morning & afternoon.

 

Would you recommed reinstating mirtazapine? As 2 months after stopping abruptly my most debilitating vision problems started that progressed every week where I have enormous difficulty reading/writing because I see some things focused and unfocused at the same time. Like the scope of focus got less and less. I would rather reinstate and take any other medication and have somewhat normal vision back than wait it out... It just got so much worse after 5 months, I can't handle it anymore. I've had my eyes checked everything is fine. The doctor said it's a perception issue.

[AliG]

Hi Hallowas. Why are you taking Flurazepam in the morning? No wonder, you're exhausted!

 

Even though you updated your signature ~ it is still unclear and confusing. Can you add a little more information ~ to explain more ?

 

Do you feel your vision problems are a withdrawal symptom?

[powerback]

Hi Hallows welcome , what I think , it looks like your Adrenals are getting mixed signals and your under a lot of stress .high inflammatory markers and feeling alert and sleepy at the same time are symptoms of adrenal fatigue.i cant claim you have this [not a doctor ] and the adrenals are very tough  .but withdrawal causes so much stress in our brain ,you could be getting mixed signals to them ,don't worry or freak out you will be fine but you need loads of rest ,physical ,emotional .

The mods are well tuned in so your safe .

[Altostrata]

Actually, the sleeplessness sounds like a paradoxical reaction to flurazepam. You may be taking too much.

 

AliG has an excellent point, why are you taking flurazepam twice a day? It has a very long half-life.

 

See https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=3839ca57-1c3d-4fb3-a00a-6569b2b4447f

 

Quote

The mean elimination half-life of desalkyl-flurazepam was longer in edlerly male subjects (160 hours) compared with younger male subjects (74 hours), while mean elimination half-life was similar in geriatric female subjects (120 hours) and younger female subjects (90 hours).

 

Also be sure to read the Adverse Reactions ^ at the above link.

 

What times of day do you take flurazepam? Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern? Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages.

 

Please note that although you may be getting a paradoxical reaction from too much flurazepam, you may still be physiologically dependent on it. If I were you, I'd very carefully taper the dose earlier in the day. Please go here to discuss tapering the benzo.

[ChessieCat]

This gives an example of how to Keep Notes on Paper

[Hallowas]

When to expect improvements?

 

This has been with me for 2 years now.

 

Thanks

[Hallowas]

..

 

[Hallowas]

...

[Hallowas]

Bump.

 

I am asking for Help and guidance.

 

First year was very managable as I was Not used to have 10x more mental energy and that felt good while in the Benzo.

Now the second year is quite difficult as my last reserves are being used up due to this 10 Cups of Coffee injected 24/7 effect

[Hallowas]

Can Somebody Help?

[veryamazing]

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