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Anthony75

Anthony75: Any help would greatly be appreciated

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Anthony75

Hi My name is Anthony. I’m new to this forum. I’ve never been a member of a forum before so if I’m posting things in the wrong place I apologize. Also I will not try and write a novel but I really do need help and advice. I’m 42 years old and have been on antidepressents since 18 years old. For the last 15 years I have been on Paxi40mg. I’ve also been taking Klonopin pretty much since 18 years old except for a couple years they put me on different benzo’s. But I’ve been on Klonopin 2mg at least 20 years. I’m taking these medicines for generalized anxiety disorder and panic disorder. So about 10 months ago I spoke with my doctor about trying another ssri because of side effects I was having with Paxil. Just the usual ones weight gain, sexual, etc. That was the worst decision of my life. After the first week I got the Paxil flu. At the time I had no idea what the Paxil flu was or that I was going to feel like that. It scared the hell out of me and didn’t want to take these pills anymore. So like an idiot I started tapering off the Prozac and was off it within a month. So I believe I just basically quit Paxil cold turkey. I kept taking the Klonopin though. I fought the withdrawals for 3 months and couldn’t do it anymore. So I saw my doctor and he put me back on Prozac 40mg for about 3 weeks but I requested Paxil because I read something online saying it’s better to reinstate the same medication. I reinstated at Paxil 40 mg So now it’s about 5 months and I’m still experiencing the withdrawals while on Paxil. My waves are getting easier but still pretty bad and my windows seem to get longer some times. During a wave my anxiety is through the roof with constant worrying about everything important or not, can’t get out of bed, also with other symptoms as well. My question is it common to have withdrawals while taking the same dosage again after 5 months? I also read that sometimes reinstatement doesn’t work. I don’t think that is what is happening because I do feel improvements just small. The thought of reinstatement not working scares the hell out of me. Please any answers and advice would greatly be appreciated because I’m having a hard time. Once again sorry if this was too long for my first post I’m just desperate. Also can I ask about my symptoms here? Thank you so much for the people who took there time to read this. Hope to hear from you guy’s.

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Gridley

Hello, Anthony75 and welcome to SA.  I have moved your post to our Introductions and Updates section.  This is your place to ask questions and give updates.

 

To start, in order to give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?
  • Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
  • Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
  • Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
  • Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
  • A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
  • Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

The fact that your waves are getting easier and your windows longer are signs that your reinstatement is working.  There is no set time for stabilizing after a reinstatement.  Your cold-turkey put your nervous system in disequilibrium, and it may take some time to settle down.  When I updosed Imipramine after a too-fast taper, it took four months for my system to settle down.  Five months or longer doesn't seem unusual.  This quote is from Alto Strata, the founder of this site:

  • Once you feel withdrawal symptoms are reduced after reinstatement, give your nervous system time to stabilize before attempting dosage reduction. Think in terms of months, not days.
  • Be patient after you reinstate. Reinstatement may not immediately eliminate all withdrawal symptoms. You may still experience waves of symptoms, which usually lessen as time goes on. Do not attempt to taper again until you feel symptom-free, or at least until your withdrawal symptoms are mild and tolerable.

In the meantime, the techniques in the following link have helped many members:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms 

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

 

 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

Best,
Gridley

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Anthony75

Thank you so much Gridley for your quick response. I feel incredibly relief from the info you shared with me. I will fix my profile sorry about that. I can’t wait to learn more of what I’m going through and after I stabilize get off these pills the correct way. Thank you again for taking the time to help me

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Anthony75

Hi Gridley How are you? I know you can’t give me an exact time frame but do you have a idea of how long it will take me to stabilize to where I was before quitting Paxil. I’m having a hard time with this. I looked through older post and can’t seem to find a situation like mine or overlooked it. It seems like everyone is tapering. Any info or advice would be greatly appreciated because I’m worried and scared as hell. Thank you for your time.

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Anthony75

Sorry what I meant as far as before quitting Paxil would be no more withdrawals.

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Gridley

I wish I could give you a time frame, but I can't.  There just haven't been any studies on this, plus everyone is different.  The fact that you are experiencing windows is an extremely encouraging sign that reinstatement is working.   If you can, concentrate on that fact rather than worry, because worry cretes stress for the brin which is, though you may not be aware of it, is healing. The windows are evidence of that.  Just give it more time.

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Anthony75

Thank you I appreciate it. I will follow your advice. If you don’t mind can I ask you one more question? I do not want to bother you. 

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Foggyhead

You and I are in the almost exact situation. I am a 43 old male and started on ADs and benzos when I was 18 for anxiety and panic attacks. I weaned off Klonopin two years ago and Lexapro 14 months ago. I am still not  100% back to my old self. My chief complaint is relentless insomnia and tinnitus. I tried a reinstatement early on and had an adverse reaction.  My hopes are to be able to "ride it out" and not have to go back on anything. 

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Anthony75

Hi Foggyhead How are you? I didn’t know other people could read this as I’m new to the forum and never been on a forum before. I’m glad other people can read it though because I could use all the help I can get right now. That’s awesome you are off the medication and getting better. This is all new to me so it’s been a hard time. I wasn’t expecting all this to happen by stopping Paxil. I’m just trying to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I trust what Gridley is telling me that the windows is showing that reinstatement is working it’s just when it’s bad my negative and anxious part of my brain takes over. Thank you for reaching out. 

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Foggyhead
27 minutes ago, Anthony75 said:

Hi Foggyhead How are you? I didn’t know other people could read this as I’m new to the forum and never been on a forum before. I’m glad other people can read it though because I could use all the help I can get right now. That’s awesome you are off the medication and getting better. This is all new to me so it’s been a hard time. I wasn’t expecting all this to happen by stopping Paxil. I’m just trying to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I trust what Gridley is telling me that the windows is showing that reinstatement is working it’s just when it’s bad my negative and anxious part of my brain takes over. Thank you for reaching out. 

It has been a tough road, believe me and it is scary laying there awake at 2AM with the rest of the house sleeping, laying there listening to your ears ring and not being able to fall asleep, having depersonalization all day in a fog at work... I keep telling myself that better days are on the horizon if I can just stick it out. Three years from now and if I am not better, I will reevaluate it then. My advice to you would be to listen to what others are telling you here on this forum. I would also recommend from experience to hold the Klonopin for now until you re-stabilize on the AD  to save your sleep. Lack of sleep is hampering my recovery. If I was to do it over again I would have tapered the AD first, stabilized and then worked on getting off of the Klonopin.   

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Gridley

Foggyhead,

 

Hang in there.  It will get better.  Time is the cure.

 

The techniques in these links have helped many members.  The first link deals with anxiety.

 

Have you tried magnesium and omega oil?  Many people find these calming to the nervous system.

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. 
 
For insomnia, I've found melatonin to be helpful.  Start with a low dose, no more than 1 mg, as higher doses can turn paradoxical.
 
Best,
Gridley

 

 

 

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Anthony75

Thank you for the advice I appreciate it. I will follow your advice. Were you able to work the whole time you were going through withdrawals? I couldn’t do it anymore after 2 months of withdrawals. That’s one of my biggest worries is getting back to work and think the withdrawals are making that worry and other worries harder to deal with. Even small worries are blown out of proportion. 

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Foggyhead
31 minutes ago, Anthony75 said:

Thank you for the advice I appreciate it. I will follow your advice. Were you able to work the whole time you were going through withdrawals? I couldn’t do it anymore after 2 months of withdrawals. That’s one of my biggest worries is getting back to work and think the withdrawals are making that worry and other worries harder to deal with. Even small worries are blown out of proportion. 

Going to work helps me keep my sanity. Even days that I got zero sleep, I went to work. I am a type A person who has problems sitting still 

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Anthony75

My hat’s off to you to be able to work. Happy to hear it helped you. I Tattoo for a living and I just can’t function properly. 

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Foggyhead
5 hours ago, Gridley said:

Foggyhead,

 

Hang in there.  It will get better.  Time is the cure.

 

The techniques in these links have helped many members.  The first link deals with anxiety.

 

Have you tried magnesium and omega oil?  Many people find these calming to the nervous system.

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. 
 
For insomnia, I've found melatonin to be helpful.  Start with a low dose, no more than 1 mg, as higher doses can turn paradoxical.
 
Best,
Gridley

 

 

 

Thanks Gridley. I am reading Acceptance now. Its a real eye opener.

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Survivor1

Hi Anthony75,

 

I wanted to offer a few words of support.  I too reinstated a drug in the past, and eventually stabilized.  It took me three months with acute symptoms every day of those three months; I had no windows until one day I felt sort of OK , then improvement was rapid.  The fact that you are getting some relief is a very good sign.  Hang on, stabilization will happen, have to have some blind faith sometimes.  You are not feeling absolutely horrible (which could suggest the reinstatement is not working).  

 

This is a very trying experience for us.  I too cannot go back to work; am trying to keep my chin up with an adverse reaction situation and having to take care of a family.  

 

I hope you continue to get more relief ...

Best

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Anthony75

Thank you Survivor1 for taking the time to offer your support it means a lot. I hope the best for you  

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Anthony75

Hello to everyone I hope you guys are doing good. I have a couple questions for everyone if you guys don’t mind. It’s been 6 months since I reinstated my full dose of Paxil. I’m still having withdrawals even though I have reinstated the Paxil. I know no one can give me a time frame of how long they will last. But I’m curious if this has been heard of before on here. Is it unusual to still be having withdrawals? I know I’m making progress because the waves and windows are changing. From the start I was always in bed and couldn’t do anything. Then it switched to feeling good for a few days at maybe 70% and then back to being in bed. And slowly changed from feeling 90% for around a week and back in bed for 2 weeks. Well now I’m feeling at some point in the window I almost feel no withdrawals but feel exhausted and don’t want to do anything and back to bed for a week. Also during a wave it seems just as bad as the first one and I worry about the same set of worries uncontrollably. Self talk, CBT techniques, mindfulness nothing works in this state of withdrawals. These worries started when the withdrawals started.

I can’t eat, insomnia is relentless and anxiety & fear is through the roof. And during a window I don’t worry about any of these things except for a couple but very minimal and since it’s about money and worrying about getting back to work so I’m sure that’s normal. And sometimes during a window I will have waves from a few hours to 5 minutes almost like a anxiety attack but a wave attack if that makes sense. Thank you to the people who take the time to read this and reply I appreciate it more than you guys will ever know. I’m just feeling lost and beat up and any help would be invaluable. Sorry also for such a long post.

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Anthony75

Sorry I forgot a couple things. I’m also getting brain zaps again that started about a week ago. Not constantly but a few times this week and the longest episode was a couple hours. Is that strange to you guys? Also all these questions I tried to look up on here so I wouldn’t waste your guy’s time but I couldn’t find anything. Thank you again 

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ChessieCat

The fact that you are getting times when you feel a lot of improvement is a really good sign.  Stabilising and healing isn't linear.

 

Re brain zaps:

 

Q:  Do you take your dose every day?

 

Q:  Are they ever times when you forget to take your dose or take it a lot later than 24 hours after your last dose?

 

 

Stabilising - What Does That Mean?

Withdrawal Normal Description

 

Brain Remodelling


Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

From:  What is Happening in Your Brain

 

"Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are [...] to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made."

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Anthony75

Hi CheesieCat

Thank you so much for your reply I really appreciate it. Yes I take my medication every day and sometimes when I’m in bed not doing good there might be a 2 or three hour window where I take it. Sometimes I just can’t get out of bed or sometimes even move. The house could be burning down around me and I will not move. I thought since I have been taking the medication again for a while I would feel a lot better by now that’s why I’m scared. But the way you described it makes total sense. I’m kind of scatter brained right now so I apologize. I went to the doctor for a unrelated issue and he saw how bad I look and the fact that I have lost 70 pounds since this happened. He wants to change my meds and I don’t know what to do. I know this is a big question but what should I do. I’m scared to take a different medication. Even more since I’m still going through withdrawals. Thank you again for your help it means a lot. If you ever need to talk just message me. I would offer to help but I’m new to this and probably wouldn’t be any help. But if I can help I will. Also thank you for the links. I went through the windows and waves section and I couldn’t find that stuff. This is my first forum I’ve been on and I suck at it.

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ChessieCat

Changing to a different drug is risky.  You can end up suffering withdrawal from the 1st drug and start up/side effects/bad reaction from the new drug.  You will not know what is causing any problems that arise.

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?


What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

Something to consider about the brain zaps, do they occur on the days when you have taken your dose later than normal.

 

Q:  Klonopin, are you taking that daily?

 

Benzos can cause rebound anxiety.

 

Interactions between your drugs

Moderate

clonazepam  paroxetine

Applies to: Klonopin (clonazepam), Paxil (paroxetine)

Using clonazePAM together with PARoxetine may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

 

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Anthony75

Hi 

Yes I’m taking the Klonopin daily. I feel relief about a hour after taking the Klonopin so I don’t know if it is causing rebound anxiety. I don’t think so. As far as the Paxil it happens either way because I have missed doses before all this happened and I remember getting brain zaps so I keep that in mind when I get them. I’m not going to let my doctor change my medication. It’s just hard to talk to him because he believes withdrawal only lasts a month at most. I know you can’t tell me for sure but does it sound like I’m recovering in your opinion? 

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ChessieCat
1 hour ago, Anthony75 said:

From the start I was always in bed and couldn’t do anything. Then it switched to feeling good for a few days at maybe 70% and then back to being in bed. And slowly changed from feeling 90% for around a week and back in bed for 2 weeks. Well now I’m feeling at some point in the window I almost feel no withdrawals but feel exhausted and don’t want to do anything and back to bed for a week. 

 

This definitely sounds like you have improved.

 

Feeling exhausted may be the "drowsy" interaction between your 2 drugs.

 

Or even just a side effect of Paxil:

 

From:  https://www.drugs.com/paxil.html

 

Common Paxil side effects may include:

  • weakness, drowsiness, dizziness

 

It might be worth having a full blood test done.  You may be lacking in something.  Drugs can deplete some things.

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Anthony75

Thank you so much for the information, encouragement, and talking to me. I know I already said this but it really does mean a lot that you have taking the time to help me. I get blood test every 6 months for my thyroid and everything comes out ok.

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ChessieCat

If you are taking thyroid medication, please add that to your signature.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Q:  Are you eating regularly through the day?

 

Drops in blood sugar levels can cause anxiety .

 

Q:  Are you eating a well balanced diet?

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Anthony75

Ok I will add the medication to my signature. When I’m feeling bad I might eat something small if I’m able to once a day. I just can’t get myself to eat. Makes me want to vomit. When I’m feeling good I will eat at least twice a day and try my best to eat healthy. I do drink plenty of water everyday.

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AliG

You may want to simplify your signature ~ as it's confusing. Please say what you were on and are now currently on.

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Altostrata

Hello, Anthony. What times of day do you take Paxil and your other drugs, and at what dosages? We also need to know about thyroid hormone.

 

What are the symptoms you're feeling now? Are they worse at any particular time of day?

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Anthony75

Hi Altostrata How are you? I take 2mg of Klonopin at 11pm and 40mg of Paxil at 12pm. I also take Levothyroxine 0.100mg at 12:30pm for hypothyroidism. Excessive worrying, high anxiety, Depersonalisation, insomnia, hard to get out of bed just lay there, hard to leave the house, fatigue, no appetite, weird thoughts. The symptoms are all over the place with no timeline. I tried to figure that one out before but no time pattern. Before stopping Paxil I didn’t have any of these symptoms I was doing good for years even though I have anxiety disorder. When I’m in a window all I feel is mild Depersonalisation, anxiety about the next wave, and mild worrying. I hope this makes sense. Thank you for replying.

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Anthony75

Hi AliG,

Thank you for the heads up I will change my signature 

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