Millions MORE of us should be taking antidepressants!!

[Distraut]

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5419967/Millions-taking-antidepressants.html

 

Millions MORE of us should be taking antidepressants:

Largest-ever study claims the pills DO work and GPs should be dishing them out

 

• Study examined 120,000 people in more than 500 trials across three decades 
• Experts at Oxford University declared anti-depressants are helpful to the ill 
• They hope findings will encourage GPs to prescribe the drugs for more people

 

Edited March 17, 2018 by ChessieCat
changed font size

[Terry4949]

We are well and truly knackered now if this is put on the mainstream news people will believe it and all the work I have done telling people how I have been damaged will be undone as all this will tell people is that I havnt found the right med and that I am not trying , my doctor will now tell me that they do work and my theory has been dismissed this is bad news , maybe big pharma is behind it all what with all the bad publicity about harm that hey have released it to get the general public back on side and to convince the government that they are safe and effective 

[peng]

Yes, I, too, was disappointed to see that this is a big story in the UK media today.

It will catch the attention overwhelmingly, compared with what many of us would wish the population at large to have really been made aware of.

 

I personally have never subsrcibed to the view that ADs are no better than placebos, having twice felt the effect of two types "kicking in" after 10 days to a fortnight of taking them when I was very ill.

However, my gripes are that, after research, prompted by visiting "survivingantidepressants", I, almost certainly, have been on these neurotoxins (at high doses, too) for decades longer than necessary.  

Our NHS and its advising psychiatry's lack of attention - even denial - to the addiction, horrendous side effects, poopout and lack of easily available alternative therapies over the past 40 years  leaves me p*****, to coin a term used in the last 24 hours by a mourning US father.

Further, what will become of our children and grandchildren now that US-style heavy-handed pharmaceutical "treatment" has already got a foothold here? **

 

(** apologies to our like-minded US members on here.)

[powerback]

1 hour ago, Terry4949 said:

We are well and truly knackered now if this is put on the mainstream news people will believe it and all the work I have done telling people how I have been damaged will be undone as all this will tell people is that I havnt found the right med and that I am not trying , my doctor will now tell me that they do work and my theory has been dismissed this is bad news , maybe big pharma is behind it all what with all the bad publicity about harm that hey have released it to get the general public back on side and to convince the government that they are safe and effective 

I concur Terry ,its the ultimate illusion ,I even question my own criticism of meds lately.the sad fact is these gigantic industry's form the mind-set.its a sad indictment of the society that has   been formed many decades ago .we live in a hedonistic quick fix culture for a long time.im sticking around for a long time and to try make a difference for the future generations ,albeit small .

we have to appease our fears with the fact there is active criticism ,with madinamerica and many others .but it is a huge beast that we simply could never tackle alone .

I had a conversation with a friend  I do some work with ,he's well aware of my situation albeit ignorantly [I cant judge him].he watched me loose my temper one day because of withdrawl [I didn't realise at the time ].I drowned on to him about my troubles, I'm lucky this man hasn't avoided me because he believes in the typical "mental type "

He said hes sister in-law   was put on meds for post natal depression ,its simply not my fight ,its way to complex . I could argue all day about meds but I'm the only one that would loose out ,I'm so glad I'm past that faze .

Ile keep signing what petitions I can and follow the sites and people making a difference ,ile never actively attract negative/attention  feelings from people again because of my  meds criticism .

I'm going  no were near my doctor again until I'm in a stable  place and I wont open my mouth to him like I used to .

 

Take care terry wishing you well .

[yetrio]

Hi,

I saw this article this morning.... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/02/21/drugs-do-work-anti-depressants-should-given-million-britons/

 

What do you think?

[Lakelander82]

I’ve just heard this headline a few hours. A few thoughts spring to mind - how independent are these studies into the effectiveness of Antidepressants? Do the Scientists carrying them out have any affiliation with the Pharmaceutical companies? Are the pharmaceutical Companies influencing the studies in anyway through backhanders and what not?  I’m cynical about the whole thing. 

[cogitoergonumb]

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2161911-almost-every-antidepressant-headline-youll-read-today-is-wrong/

This article somewhat throws things back in balance

[Distraut]

A follow up article:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5424795/Study-says-GPs-hand-antidepressants.html

 

A study calling for a million more patients to be prescribed antidepressants on the NHS has sparked a backlash by experts who say it ignores the dangers. .....

[Vanora]

Following on from the massive hype surrounding the recent study there is a fight back occurring to counter the propaganda emanating from the Science Media Centre.

 

From Joanna Moncrieff stating that

 

"The extraordinary media hype over the latest meta-analysis of antidepressants puts the discussion of these drugs back years."

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/02/challenging-new-hype-antidepressants/ 

 

 

From Peter Gotzsche who commented that the review added nothing.

 

http://cepuk.org/2018/02/22/peter-gotzsche-cipriani-review-not-add-anything/ 

 

 

Dr James Davies, Roehampton University and Dr Helen Stokes-Lampard, RCCP debated the issue on BBC Newsnight.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09sqj83/newsnight-22022018 

 

 

The Council for Evidence-based Psychiatry said the new research added little to the debate.

 

http://cepuk.org/2018/02/22/antidepressants-work-new-research-proves-nothing-new/

 

 

The Daily Mail published an excellent article by John Naish critical of the media coverage.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5424917/John-Naish-disagrees-study-says-antidepressants-work.html

 

 

Dr Peter Kinderman disagreed that more pills were the answer to life's problems.

 

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/02/22/drugs-not-answer/

 

 

Letters have been sent to both the Guardian and the Times.

 

And a sharp-eyed James Moore became aware that the Royal College of Psychiatrists had removed from their website a document on antidepressant tapering and withdrawal after it contradicted their stated comments in a letter sent to the Times newspaper. He was savvy enough to make a copy of it and now the RCPsych are being challenged!

 

Email 

To: Professor Wendy Burn. President - Royal College of Psychiatrist; Professor David Baldwin, Chair, Psychopharmacology Committee - Royal College of Psychiatrists.

 

February 28, 2018

 

Dear Professors Burn and Baldwin

 

On 24.2.2018 The Times published a letter signed by you, in your capacities as President, and Chair of the Psychopharmacology Committee, of the Royal College of Psychiatrists (RCP). In that letter you made the following claim: 'We know that in the vast majority of patients, any unpleasant symptoms experienced on discontinuing antidepressants have resolved within two weeks of stopping treatment'

 

We believe that statement is not evidence-based, is incorrect and has misled the public on an important mater of public safety.

 

Although more research may be needed before any definitive statements on this issue can be made we note that even the RCP's own survey of over 800 antidepressant users, reported in the RCP document 'Coming Off Antidepressants', found that withdrawal symptoms were experienced by the majority (63%) and '.... generally lasted for up to 6 weeks'... and that 'A quarter of our group reported anxiety lasting more than 12 weeks'.

 

We further note, however, that within 48 hours of making your misleading statement in The Times you removed the 'Coming Off Antidepressants' document from your RCP website. One interpretation of this action, and the timing thereof, is that you wanted to prevent the public from seeing evidence that contradicts your claim in the Times.

 

We are considering lodging a formal complaint with the appropriate professional body about your misleading the public on a matter of public safety. We would first, however, like to give you the opportunity to publicly retract, explain and apologise for the statement, in the Times and on the RCP website. Alternatively, please provide us with the research studies on which you based the statement that 'in the vast majority of patients, any unpleasant symptoms experienced on discontinuing antidepressants have resolved within two weeks of stopping treatment'.

 

We will await your response for one week before deciding whether to lodge the aforementioned complaint.

 

Please note that, as this is an urgent matter of public safety, we are making the concerns expressed in this letter public. We may also make public your response.

 

Yours sincerely  

 

Dr John Read

Professor of Clinical Psychology, University of East London

 

On behalf of:

 

Dr Steven Coles (Clinical Psychology) Nottinghamshire Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust

Dr James Davies (Medical Anthropology) University of Roehampton

Dr Peter Groot (Psychiatry) University of Maastricht

Professor Peter Kinderman (Clinical Psychology) University of Liverpool

Dr Hugh Middleton (Psychiatry) University of Nottingham

Professor Jim van Os (Psychiatry) University of Maastricht

Professor David Pilgrim (Clinical Psychology) University of Southampton

Professor John Read (Clinical Psychology) University of East London

Professor Sami Timimi (Psychiatry) Lincolnshire Partnership NHS Foundation Trust  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vanora]

Oh, and before I forget the majority of funding for this dubious study came from......big pharma!

[Shep]

Thanks for all the great links, Vanora.

 

I just have one question for all of those RCP doctors, if the antidepressants work so well, why does the latest ANTI-PSYCHOTIC drug, Rexulti, claim that 2 out of 3 people still struggle with depression on their current antidepressant and require an "add on"? The "add on" is very much an antipsychotic but the commercial never discloses that:

 

Rexulti Commercial 2017 video (1.5 minutes)

 

The RCP is aware of the antipsychotic problem involving brain damage, but according to email exchanges with Dr. Moncrieff, has no plans on dealing with it:

 

Royal College of Psychiatrists still not interested in discussing important evidence on long-term antipsychotic treatment

 

Very frightening the number of people being hurt by all of this, especially in the name of "medicine". 

 

[Vanora]

This makes me glad to be in the UK Shep, I couldn't imagine how many more people would be trapped on psych meds if they were exposed to pharma adverts on a daily basis. But I take your point about the add-on antipsychotic treatment, it's highly sinister. Why would you want to take something with such horrendous side-effects is beyond me and it doesn't say much about the effectiveness of antidepressants. I was prescribed Seroquel when I had a hard time getting off Venlafaxine and the more I read about antipsychotics the more I thank my lucky stars I didn't take it for very long, it never helped anyway. My memory is quite hazy but I don't remember being properly informed about the risks of Seroquel. It makes you wonder if psychiatry and pharma isn't out to reduce the life span of their patients!   

[Shep]

6 minutes ago, Vanora said:

It makes you wonder if psychiatry and pharma isn't out to reduce the life span of their patients!   

 

You make many good points, Vanora.

 

I've been researching the political uses of the antipsychotic and historically, psychiatry has more in common with political forces than medical forces and the current climate certainly speaks to that. 

[joy2730]

The BBC should have mentioned the problems people are having with SSRI's as well as stating that the report felt more people should be taking them.  I always thought british TV was good at balanced news, but this is clearly not the case.  It just the same with Peter Kramer's book 'Ordinarily Well', he claims to be independent but he never mentions side effects/withdrawal issues at all.

 

Most people don't have spare hours to read books and websites, they just try the BBC News, the national press and their GPs. What a sad state of affairs, but among ordinary people I often hear comments such as 'if you start taking them you will never get off them'.

 

Joy

[Vanora]

5 hours ago, Shep said:

 

You make many good points, Vanora.

 

I've been researching the political uses of the antipsychotic and historically, psychiatry has more in common with political forces than medical forces and the current climate certainly speaks to that. 

 

I do believe that if you look at psychiatric treatments both past and present they are very often a means of social control sometimes using methods of coercion. Depriving people of their freedom or drugging them into oblivion whatever you look at it, the relationship between patient and psychiatrist is entirely one-sided and you can't tell me that quite a few in psychiatry don't enjoy the power trip. The intention seems to be to get us dependent on psychiatric drugs from as early as possible and in that way we are introduced to adjunct drug treatments and made patients/customers for life, we'll at least that's what I make of it.  

[Vanora]

5 hours ago, joy2730 said:

The BBC should have mentioned the problems people are having with SSRI's as well as stating that the report felt more people should be taking them.  I always thought british TV was good at balanced news, but this is clearly not the case.  It just the same with Peter Kramer's book 'Ordinarily Well', he claims to be independent but he never mentions side effects/withdrawal issues at all.

 

Most people don't have spare hours to read books and websites, they just try the BBC News, the national press and their GPs. What a sad state of affairs, but among ordinary people I often hear comments such as 'if you start taking them you will never get off them'.

 

Joy

 

I don't know if you have ever heard of the Science Media Centre joy2730 but it's from this organization that the likes of the BBC and other media outlets turn to to get the inside track on scientific questions of the day and it was from the Science Media Centre that this recent study was promoted. This organization which was co-founded by Professor Simon Wessely a former head of the Royal College of Psychiatrists receives a majority of its funding from corporate sources so you can see it has a strong bias in favour of pharma. Quite honestly I'm fed up with the BBC and with most of broadsheet coverage, their reporting doesn't reflect the downsides of taking antidepressants nearly enough. It's almost as if there is a collective effort to deny the existence of the victims of antidepressants and other psych drugs and you are right, people still trust the BBC news, the national press and their GPs for reliable information. Though that said people are also increasingly depending on social media for info. I recently had someone criticise me on twitter for being "irresponsible" about the less than favourable things I was saying about antidepressants. In their opinion SSRIs were a force for good. I'm a bit fed up with that too.    

[GentleSteps]

Vanora,

 

Very good point regarding the Science Media Center and ex-RCP Prof. Simon Wessley (odd that autocorrect tried to force the spelling as "Weasley")

 

After Joanna Moncrieff's article in MIA James Moore posted this comment: “I stress that this is purely my personal view, but it feels like this study is being used as a weapon, rather than evidence-based science, designed to firmly establish the superiority of antidepressant treatment and to disempower and undermine the critics.”

 

Auntie Psychiatry had the same intuition as James and did some quick research, confirming they were both exactly right .  I have copied Auntie Psychiatry's response to James below.  (At the end you have the link to her wonderful blog and the entry portraying Wessely and SMC):

 

Auntie Psychiatry February 26, 2018 at 5:51 am

 

Go with your instincts, James. When the BBC is spoonfed this headline…

“A major study of antidepressants has concluded that they work, and many more people should take them.”

…you know something stinks. I awoke on Thursday to those exact words, and I heard it repeated several times throughout the day. My immediate thought was “sounds like a Science Media Centre* job.” Sure enough, http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-largest-review-of-antidepressants/

 

So, a broadside launched by The Royal College of Psychiatrists, but what provoked it?

 

Andre Tomlin at The Mental Elf provides the answer…

“It’s been a rough few months for people taking antidepressants. We’ve been bombarded with information that insists our medication is ineffective and harmful, that any benefit we gain from taking these pills is simply a placebo effect, and that by accepting a prescription of antidepressants we are joining an ever-growing zombified mass of morons.

From Peter Gøtzsche’s ‘evidence’ that antidepressants don’t just have side-effects but actually kill the people who take them, to the BBC Panorama programme “A Prescription for Murder?” which linked taking antidepressants to violent crime, to Johan Hari’s recent book questioning everything about depression “Lost Connections”, the anti-antidepressants voices have really hit the mainstream.”

This made me smile. Confirmation that our “voices have really hit the mainstream”. Happy day!

 

*The SMC is a UK registered charity, which makes it untouchable. Professor Sir Simon Wessely is a trustee.

Here’s a cartoon about how they operate: http://www.auntiepsychiatry.com/red.aspx?ha=smc

 

Gentle Steps again.  Interesting to see Tomlin's take on the timing of the Lancet publication and the surrounding media blitz, as arising in the wake of increasingly public criticisms of SSRIs by Goetzche, BBC Panorama's Prescription for Murder and Johan H's book "Lost Connections."  "Confirmation," as Auntie Psychiatry declares,  "that our 'voices have really hit the mainstream.' Happy Day!"

 

Happy Day Indeed!

[Vanora]

Well what do you know GentleSteps but I had the exact same problem with the autocorrect, time after time, it wouldn't allow me to amend the spelling of "Weasley", funny that. 😜 You should check out Lady Weasley, Clare Gerada, she was chair of the Royal College of General Practitioners and trained as a psychiatrist, she's a real sweetheart. I had a melt-down moment when I heard her say on a BBC Radio 4 programme that benzo withdrawal was "overstated". You can guess where she is on antidepressants.

 

Yep, the Science Media Centre were all over the antidepressant study like a bad rash, Auntie Psychiatry was absolutely right - love her cartoons by the way. And you've also hit the nail on the head re Andre Tomlin, the SMC pro- pharma, pro-antidepressant position has been under sustained attack in recent times and they've come out fighting. I'm not sure what to make of Mental Elf, on the one hand they have only uncritical praise for this study, but on the other I read a very good piece on their site by Andrew Shepherd, a forensic psychiatrist, about the lack of research into antidepressant withdrawal. Generally speaking, I don't find them very unbiased in matters relating to antidepressants. But there are some excellent counter arguments if you just go looking for them.

 

Read the comments of Bob Fiddaman from his blog:  https://fiddaman.blogspot.co.uk/2018/02/media-frenzy-antidepressants-are-safe.htm#WpvkIEx2s2w  Scroll down and on the right of the page.     

 

And from a cardiologist, Andy Docherty, in the Herald newspaper:  http://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/16062747.Agenda_We_should_be_wary_of_the_myth_of_a_chemical_cure_for_depression/#comments 

 

 

 

 

[Distraut]

Patients, academics and psychiatrists formally complain that the president of Royal College of Psychiatrists has misled the public over antidepressant safety

http://cepuk.org/2018/03/09/patients-academics-psychiatrists-formally-complain-president-royal-college-psychiatrists-misled-public-antidepressant-safety/

 

[Shep]

Mad in America - Podcast - Professor John Read: The Royal College of Psychiatrists and Antidepressant Withdrawal

 

By James Moore

March 9, 2018

 

Great interview with Professor John Read.

 

Today on MIA Radio we have a special episode which is devoted to recent developments in the UK involving the Royal College of Psychiatrists. These events relate to the media coverage of a widely reported antidepressant meta-analysis in the Lancet, information on antidepressant withdrawal effects and a letter to The Times newspaper by the President of the Royal College Professor Wendy Burn and the Chair of the Royal College’s Psychopharmacology Committee, Professor David Baldwin.

 

Professor John Read from the University of East London took time out to explain recent events and to talk about a formal complaint which has been lodged with the Royal College on behalf of a group of eminent psychiatrists and psychologists.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Shep

[GentleSteps]

James Moore's beautifully written article "Antidepressant Anarchy in the UK" (Mad In America, March 16, 2018).

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/03/antidepressant-anarchy-uk/

 

Recounting the events in the UK following the publication of the Cipriani Lancet meta study - including the unquestioning media hype clamoring for 1Million more to be put on SSRIs (based, it turns out, on a press release put out by a Pharma-funded PR firm), misleading statements by the Royal College of Psychiatry that withdrawal in "most" patients takes "2 weeks" and the vocal and effective response from Dr. Read et al, James and many others who know from clinical practice, studies and lived experience that SSRIs have dubious effectiveness long-term, severe side effects, and, of course, cause severe withdrawal for many.

 

Also, for those interested, James and Fiona (and perhaps others) created a counter-hashtag on Twitter: #Morethan2weeks, a good place to follow the exciting developments.