Bonzee: brain zaps - what do you interpret them as?

[Altostrata]

Stop jumping around in dosage. You need to find out what the increase to 4mg does for at least a week or two before making any other decisions.

 

Keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages.

 

We're not about getting people up to "full dose" here.

[Bonzee]

4 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Stop jumping around in dosage. You need to find out what the increase to 4mg does for at least a week or two before making any other decisions.

 

Keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages.

 

We're not about getting people up to "full dose" here.

Makes sense. I'll keep you posted. Thanks

[Bonzee]

Just an update - I am still on 4mg, but my psychiatrist prescribed 5 mg tablets and he wants me on those for 3 months, then see where I'm at and possibly start another taper. I have not upped my dosage yet, but I have been experiencing insomnia (which is interesting for me, because I never had major sleeping issues before). This week I went to my parents' house and I could not fall asleep worth anything. When I did sleep I only slept for around 3 hours. I'm back home now and I'm sleeping, but I'm still waking up every few hours, I'm having trouble sleeping through. This started last week on Friday-Saturday before traveling. I'm able to do some exercise, and my eating is much healthier than months ago. I am drinking tons of water, and taking, as of now, these supplements:

 

1. Magnesium AA chelate, citrate, malate combo 400mg in divided doses

2. Vitamin C 500 mg

3. Multivitamin (10 essential, no iron)

4. Vit D 1000 IU

5. Zyrtec 10 mg

6. Fish oil 1 every 2-3 days

7. Probiotic 15 pearls (diarrhea was consistent while reinstating Lex)

 

 

[Bonzee]

Another update today - my doctor prescribed 5 mg tablets but I don't think it be wise as everyone has stated to go up in dosage any further. I'm in a small predicament, because my insurance through my father is no longer active as he is switching jobs. I should have insurance within a week, but I'm stuck with the tablets until then. I cut a part of the tablet off ~1mg but it's not exact. I wasn't sure if I should call and try and get more liquid, but I'd have to pay significantly more for this, even with discount coupons. 

 

I feel some agitation/akathisia creeping up on me, sometimes while in bed and sometimes while awake. I am sleeping better, so that's a good sign. Even though I reinstated I still am suffering from some dizziness, although not as bad as before. The anxiety is still there, and I'm constantly worrying. 

 

Trying to not check into the boards here too often because I get depressed from all the stories. I'm sure they have an effect on all of us.

 

Thanks for reading. Good luck to everyone.

[SkyBlue]

On 5/1/2018 at 2:50 AM, Bonzee said:

Another update today - my doctor prescribed 5 mg tablets but I don't think it be wise as everyone has stated to go up in dosage any further. I'm in a small predicament, because my insurance through my father is no longer active as he is switching jobs. I should have insurance within a week, but I'm stuck with the tablets until then. I cut a part of the tablet off ~1mg but it's not exact. 

 

 

Hi Bonzee,

Thanks for checking in, and I hope your insurance starts soon for you. 

 

It's really important to get an accurate a dose as possible, so cutting tablets in such small amounts isn't ideal. 

 

If you're taking liquid, I would strongly encourage you to continue with liquid. It's possible the pharmacy will sell you a week's supply at a time. 

 

Please also see information on this site regarding liquid, including making a liquid, and using a digital scale, and 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/406-tips-for-tapering-off-lexapro-escitalopram/

 

 

[Songbird]

On 4/27/2018 at 9:47 PM, Bonzee said:

 I am drinking tons of water, and taking, as of now, these supplements:

 

1. Magnesium AA chelate, citrate, malate combo 400mg in divided doses

2. Vitamin C 500 mg

3. Multivitamin (10 essential, no iron)

4. Vit D 1000 IU

5. Zyrtec 10 mg

6. Fish oil 1 every 2-3 days

7. Probiotic 15 pearls (diarrhea was consistent while reinstating Lex)

 

 

 

I am not sure what you mean by "as of now".  When did you start taking each of these supplements/meds?  Some of these could potentially be contributing to symptoms, so it would help to know when each was started.   It is also possible some may be helping, but in any case it could be useful to record the information here.  The improvements you report in sleeping and less dizziness are good signs.

 

Regarding how to create smaller doses from 5mg tablets, it is possible to do this using a digital scale.  See : 

 

[Bonzee]

12 hours ago, SkyBlue said:

 

Hi Bonzee,

Thanks for checking in, and I hope your insurance starts soon for you. 

 

It's really important to get an accurate a dose as possible, so cutting tablets in such small amounts isn't ideal. 

 

If you're taking liquid, I would strongly encourage you to continue with liquid. It's possible the pharmacy will sell you a week's supply at a time. 

 

Please also see information on this site regarding liquid, including making a liquid, and using a digital scale, and 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/406-tips-for-tapering-off-lexapro-escitalopram/

 

 

 

Thank you SkyBlue for looking through and replying to my topic. My insurance is still out for maybe another week. I have the 5 mg tablets (30 day supply) to last me for now. I know cutting the tablets was not ideal, because I was not feeling very well the day I did this. The dosage was probably around ~4mg but not perfect. I have also been in contact with Miguel on this site and we talk often. He suggested making a liquid, but I don't think this to be ideal as well because the molecule is not designed to be in a suspension without binders, as compound pharmacies or pharmaceutical companies would make. Effectiveness is uncertain, as no studies have been done on any of these drugs in tablet form dissolved in water. There are questions as to longevity and potency. pH values, contaminants, and other properties of water can interfere with the drug. Something my drug classes taught me in college (finally something useful).

 

With all that being said, I did up my dose to 5mg, simply because I can't get liquid due to my insurance and I'm not comfortable with cutting or making my own suspension. I have been on 5 mg for about 3 days now and I'm stabilizing quickly. My heart has been irritable and my anxiety/dizziness comes and goes, but I'm feeling OK for now, possibly even better than 4mg.

 

1 hour ago, Songbird said:

 

I am not sure what you mean by "as of now".  When did you start taking each of these supplements/meds?  Some of these could potentially be contributing to symptoms, so it would help to know when each was started.   It is also possible some may be helping, but in any case it could be useful to record the information here.  The improvements you report in sleeping and less dizziness are good signs.

 

Regarding how to create smaller doses from 5mg tablets, it is possible to do this using a digital scale.  See : 

 

 

Hi Songbird,

 

My supplements have been stable and steady for quite some time, but I recently added vitamin D because I work ON and I get little sunlight, and a probiotic because I've been having constant diarrhea with dose changes. I have been feeling better with the GI symptoms, but I must watch what I eat as my GI system is VERY sensitive. I had pizza the other day and I got tachycardic and it went straight through me. I eat as healthily as possible...

 

Another thing that my drug classes taught me - dispersion of the molecule, especially in generics, are not uniform. If by crushing and measuring, or cutting and measuring, you will most likely get inaccurate dosages.

[Songbird]

8 minutes ago, Bonzee said:

My supplements have been stable and steady for quite some time

 

I'm afraid "quite some time" is not informative.  Please be more specific.

[Bonzee]

1 minute ago, Songbird said:

 

I'm afraid "quite some time" is not informative.  Please be more specific.

 

All the other supplements I've been taking for years, way prior to my weaning off process. I only added the probiotic and Vit D.

[Songbird]

Okay.  Please be aware that in w/d our systems can become quite sensitive to substances that they can normally tolerate with no problems.  I'm not saying your supplements are causing problems, just that it's something to keep in mind as a factor when symptoms occur.  See this topic for more info:

 

I'm glad to hear you are feeling better.  Please keep us updated.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Songbird

[SkyBlue]

5 hours ago, Bonzee said:

 

Thank you SkyBlue for looking through and replying to my topic. My insurance is still out for maybe another week. I have the 5 mg tablets (30 day supply) to last me for now. I know cutting the tablets was not ideal, because I was not feeling very well the day I did this. The dosage was probably around ~4mg but not perfect. I have also been in contact with Miguel on this site and we talk often. He suggested making a liquid, but I don't think this to be ideal as well because the molecule is not designed to be in a suspension without binders, as compound pharmacies or pharmaceutical companies would make. Effectiveness is uncertain, as no studies have been done on any of these drugs in tablet form dissolved in water. There are questions as to longevity and potency. pH values, contaminants, and other properties of water can interfere with the drug. Something my drug classes taught me in college (finally something useful).

 

With all that being said, I did up my dose to 5mg, simply because I can't get liquid due to my insurance and I'm not comfortable with cutting or making my own suspension. I have been on 5 mg for about 3 days now and I'm stabilizing quickly. My heart has been irritable and my anxiety/dizziness comes and goes, but I'm feeling OK for now, possibly even better than 4mg.

 

Hi Bonzee,

You've certainly done your research, so that is good. As long as you are stable--and it sounds like you are-- and are coping okay and have a plan, definitely do what works for you. Keep letting us know how it's going. 

 

[Bonzee]

Thank you both for your replies. Will stay on 5 mg for 3 months as my doctor wants and see how I'm doing. Most likely get the liquid form again and begin the 10 % taper, unless any changes occur. My goal is to be able to function again, hopefully at 100%, I'm not in any rush to get off the medication now because I've seen firsthand how a quick taper messes up things.

[Bonzee]

An update - I have now been on 5mg tablets for about a week. My overall anxiety has decreased, but I'm still having constant dizziness, especially with head movement. I also get (presumably) low blood pressure when getting up from lying down. I feel some brain fog, and I'm hoping this isn't the beginnings of a POTS-related issue. My heart rate definitely goes up when I change positions. It seems to be worse when I eat. Last night my legs were tingling, some nerve issues. Holding at 5 for at least a few months, but not where I want to be yet. I hope I stabilize soon. Thanks

[Altostrata]

You may have waves and windows for a while.

[Bonzee]

So a new update - kind of new symptoms occurring the last few days. My legs feel like they are vibrating especially my right leg. I usually lay on my left side. My vibration feeling sometimes creeps up to my belly and chest. I sonetimes feel a pain sensation as well. Tachycardia when standing especially in the morning.

 

Anybody have a clue what to do? Very uncomfortable...

[Songbird]

I think sometimes it is best to do nothing.  Give your body a chance to sort things out, even though it feels uncomfortable.

 

You might try some gentle relaxation exercises - e.g. progressive muscle relaxation.

[Bonzee]

2 hours ago, Songbird said:

I think sometimes it is best to do nothing.  Give your body a chance to sort things out, even though it feels uncomfortable.

 

You might try some gentle relaxation exercises - e.g. progressive muscle relaxation.

 

Does this sound like it could cause damage, or is this commonly seen during WD/reinstate ment? I'm not sure to coin this akathisia, internal tremor, or paresthesia?

[Songbird]

I don't think it will cause damage, just feels uncomfortable.  You have made a lot of changes since the beginning of the year.  Your system is trying to sort it all out and while it is working on it, various symptoms may come and go.

[Bonzee]

The akathisia has settled a bit lately, I've been able to sleep better. My heart is still irritable, and both MiguelFreeman and I have talked lately about our heart symptoms and they seem to be similar in nature. Some flutters, fast heart beats, etc. I especially get a huge stress response after eating, especially foods with carbs. I presume the BP and stress response issues are due to blood sugar problems brought on by the withdrawal stress response.

 

Due to these issues with the very hightned stress response I'm considering starting my beta blocker but at a lower dose (20mg of corgard) and see how this effects my physical symptoms. I need to purchase a bp monitor though first. 

 

Also, I wanted to see if Alto or the mods have heard of Pindolol? I came across this on Healthtap and a doc recommended it to someone for arrythmia control but with less BP effects. The interesting part of this is that Pindolol also crosses the BBB (like most beta blockers) but it also is an antagonist at the 5-ht1A receptor...increasing serotonergic activity. I'm wondering and may research this further when I become a physician assistant to see if this helps WD symptoms. I'm trying to discern whether WD is caused by underperformance of serotonin after discontinuation and reinstatement (due to downregulation of serotonin producing receptors) or if this is caused by an overstimulated response to reuptake (excess serotonin) after reinstatement. If due to the former, Pindolol may increase the effects of antidepressants and return homeostasis after reinstatement due to the downregulation. 

 

This would explain why most people need a higher dose than the previous non symptomatic dose before withdrawing. Just interesting and my scientific brain really wishes I can find out now. Won't start to toy around with myself though.

[Bonzee]

So to my last point I found only one case study of a gentleman who had withdrawal symptoms after stopping sertraline and started a low dose of pindolol shortly thereafter. The patient did not do well and reported substantial worsening of anxiety and agitation on Pindolol which resolved after it was stopped.

 

Need more studies to help discern the nature of withdrawal, but if others show the same response, one could postulate withdrawal to be more hypersensitivity to serotonin after a period of no reuptake blocking agents. 

 

http://www.priory.com/pindolol.htm

[Bonzee]

Opinions wanted - not making any decisions here - I've been on 5mg for 13 days and the anxiety is very bad, I'm having akathisia (vibrations) in my legs, and stomach sometimes. I have an appointment to discuss all of this with my psychiatrist in person, since he doesn't like to return my calls and I will update with his input here once I see him. Akathisia and agitation (especially after eating carb rich meals) started after I upped to 5mg. I took note. I am wondering, and I need serious thought here, if I should taper down to my last stable dose (4mg) or if I should ride this out until I stabilize. I did have akathisia on 4mg, but my body sorted this out. I have no sorted out at 5mg.

 

Also, I may start a beta blocker but I need to discuss with my cardiologist. I have nadolol 40mg here, but 20mg would be a comfortable starting dose. I'm thinking if I can get my physical symptoms under control, such as the heart issues and adrenaline spikes, I can better be in a position to tackle the psychological symptoms of WD. (Also opinions on this if you'd like to chime in)

 

Also - I'm forcing myself to exercise before bed which definitely helps to reduce the agitation. I do 15-20 minutes on the sitting bike which works out my legs and stomach mostly. 

[Bonzee]

Hi all,

 

Just an update - I've been stabilizing on 4.8mg for about two months now with some residual anxiety and dizziness. I talked with my doctor and we decided the best course of action would be to stay on 5mg dose for a while and move up to either 7.5 or 10 only if needed. My neuro-otologist believes this as well (although she suggested a plethora of additional drugs to control my migraines). 

 

I'm currently trying to stabilize on 5mg (working my way up from 4.8) and I seem to be having brain zaps but only on the right side of my head around my ear. Not sure if this could be caused by such a small updose or if the Vestibular migraines (right ear) are more likely the culprit?

 

So does anyone randomly get brain zaps again even after stabilizing?

[Carmie]

Hi Bonzee, 

 

How are you doing?💚