JLex1981: Hello!

[JLex1981]

Hi Guys, Lexapro taker for the past 15 years ! Tapering down, just went from 5mg to 4, might’ve done a little too much feeling a little anxious. Any tips ? Should I stick to 10% ?

 

Hope all is well 

John 

[Gridley]

Hello, JLex and welcome to SA.

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

Please include the original dose of Lexapro, dates of your taper and the rate at which you tapered.  Is 5% your original dosage?  

 

Regarding whether you are going too fast, how bad is your anxiety? A little discomfort is to be expected. It takes about 4 days for the dose to get to full strength in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  When did you drop from 5mg to 4mg.?   Keep in mind at the lower doses, it is often better to taper more slowly, either with smaller drops or longer holds.  

 

At Surviving Antidepressants, it is recommended that a person taper by no more than 10% of their current dose with at least a four week hold in-between decreases.  The 10% taper recommendation is a harm reduction approach to going off psychiatric drugs.  Some people may have to taper at a more conservative rate as they are sensitive to even the smallest drops. 
  

Before you begin tapering what you need to know

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Brain Remodelling

 

Tips for tapering off Lexapro (escitalopram)

 

Here is some information on withdrawal:

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

Youtube video, 4 minutes: Healing from antidepressants

 

Please be aware that sometime withdrawal symptoms don't appear immediately after a too-fast taper.

 

Delayed onset of withdrawal symptoms

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

While it is often a first response to stress to take a B-Complex, in withdrawal it can be overstimulating.

 

Hypersensitive to B Vitamin or B-Complex  

 

Many members have found non-drug coping skill helpful when tapering.

 

The Dr. Claire Weekes Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms.

 

These two links provide useful information on dealing with your doctor.

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?
 
What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

This is your introduction topic -- the place for you to ask questions, record symptoms, share your progress, and connect with other members of the SA community.  I hope you’ll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation.  I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but I am glad that you found us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JLex1981]

Thank you Gridley.... My history is very similar to yours. Started out with Zoloft in probably 2001, was on that for a couple of years till 2004-2005ish... Went off Zoloft and had some relapse of panic attacks and depression, also had brain zaps. Went back to the Dr. after feeling badly and went onto Lexapro... Have been on Lexapro since then.... 14 years... Don't they go by in a blink. So about a year and a half ago I scaled back little by little... I would shave a little off of the pill with this finger nail clipper, lol.... Probably did 2 MG or so every month or every other till it got down to 5 MG.... After 5 I asked my Dr. for the Oral solution so I could taper better... I went down to 4MG about 2 weeks ago or so... Felt a little anxiety and big drop in mood yesterday but today it picked up.... I have a feeling this taper will be a sea saw... 

 

Hope all is well. 

 

John. 

[JLex1981]

Hey Survivors!!!!

 

Almost a month into my 1MG taper from 5MG to 4ML/MG.... have to say it was fine switching from the tablet to Liquid for the first 2, 2 1/2 weeks but then blam it hit.... Wasn't that bad and not too debilitating but the anxiety sucked big time with a little GI issue but nothing that was too bad.... I forgot that feeling after 15 years of being on an SSRI... I'm all the way down from 15MG and never felt that before... I might have had the below 5MG as a barometer in my head that scared me as well... that's the thing with these tapers we don't know how much is psychological and how much physical seeing that psychological can cause physical, but I can kind of feel the difference between the psychological anxiety versus the withdrawal. 

 

Am feeling better now with the anxiety died down but the leveling off depression feeling is here... I kind of don't mind it though as I remember that when the anxiety ends that depressed feeling is underneath... king of feels mellow though and I'm liking it more than the withdrawal feeling. 

Probably went too fast with the taper as it was 20% instead of 10% but my Dr. prescribed the liquid for the first time and I told him 4ML/MG... I bet my body needed to adjust to the liquid as well... 

 

Anyways just wanted to vent a little... Hope everyone is well. 

 

John. 

[Altostrata]

Hello, JLex. Please put your status update posts in this topic.

 

Yes, you might have gone too fast. Switching to liquid can be tricky, too.

 

If I were you, I would hold for a good while, a couple of months at least, before attempting the next reduction...which will be 10%, correct?

[JLex1981]

Hey Alto,

 

Yup, it wasn’t too bad but was somewhat debilitating and felt like crap. Guess there’s a 10% rule for a reason. Was thinking of holding for another month b4 the next 10% to let the old noggin and CNS  settle in. 

 

Thanks for the advice and support !

 

-John 

[JLex1981]

Hi Guys,

 

Last night had terrible anxiety and my body felt all tingly, also had a hard time getting and staying asleep. I went from 5MG to 4ML (liquid) about a month ago are these signs of withdrawal? Should i take some magnesium or reinstate to 5MG to ease the withdrawal? Any advice appreciated. 

[Happy2Heal]

hi JLex,  

I was on lexapro and it's one of the strongest ADs out there, so you need to go super slow tapering!

I can't advise on reinstatement, that's really such a personal choice but I did want to pop in and mention that you may even need to do 5% drops after your hold, because this drug is so powerful, and the lower you go on it, the SLOWER you need to go.

 

it sounds like you've read up quite a bit about WD and are really on top of things so you should do really well

 

 

[JLex1981]

Thank you happy2heal, I think that I did go down a little too quick and that is causing some withdrawal symptoms. The worst part is it reminds me of a time way long ago that i'd rather forget. I tapered off Zoloft many years ago and then went to Lexapro when withdrawal got real bad. I will try this again the SLOW right way... thanks for the support. 

 

JLex. 

[Happy2Heal]

oh I know that feeling, of being reminded of a bad time in the past.  it sucks!

 

as you might guess from my signature, I'm kinda the queen of doing it all wrong, and making the same mistakes over and over again.

In my defense, I knew absolutely NOTHING about withdrawal prior to 2016; I truly believed the drs when they told me that it didn't exist.  Did I mention, I tend to be too trusting as well?

 

however, even when I knew about WD, I thought I was going to be a special case and that I could go much faster, and boy was I wrong! that way of thinking cost me a year of my life, when I was in acute WD- the year I consider to be the worst one in my life and I'm 62 and survived multiple traumas of all kinds, so you know it had to be bad.

 

I do my best now, to warn others of the dangers of going too fast.

I managed somehow to go off a lot of psych drugs in the past without too much trouble, but I was seldom off drugs for very long. It was almost impossible to know what was side effects from a new drug or WD from an old drug, and most of the time, the drs were all too eager to tell me that it was neither, that instead I'd "come down with" a new disease, a new mental illness Grrr!

 

so yeh, you'll be ok, you're aware and you know what happens when you go too fast. You also want to try to keep things stable, which is one reason you MIGHT want to power thru and stay at the dose you're at now, IF you can manage it.

that way you're not up and then back down, which is something your brain is not a big fan of!!! LOL
 

if you do decide to reinstate, My advice, from having done that, is to go up only a teeny tiny bit, not back to where you were when you made your last drop.

Literally go up maybe  0.05, it's just a tiny drop, literally, in the syringe.   when I reinstated, I could feel every single drop!! it was insane.

 

whatever you decide, I hope that things settle down and stabilize for you real soon.

 

I was on psych meds for about 2/3 of my entire life. I am now totally off all drugs, even non-psych drugs and am the healthiest I've even been.

it's great!!

it sucked getting to this point, but primarily because I did not follow the excellent advice given here.

If I'd gone slower I could have saved myself a lot of grief!!

 

all the best,

 

[JLex1981]

Thank you Happy2Heal  for your reply and encouragement. I think I will try to power through this setback. It was so weird, I was doing alright until last night and then a ton of anxiety hit me... It's so hard to not think of reinstating when you feel so bad, but I think going up will probably just cause more anxiety. Let's let the old CNS and brain settle into this new dose. Funny how I went from 15 to 5 with little to no problems then 4 and boom... could be mental though as I was thinking of 5 as a critical benchmark. I have to give it a chance and stop ruminating so much on it... One day at a time ! 

 

Thanks again for the reply and support. 

 

JLex

[FarmGirlWorks]

3 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

I was on psych meds for about 2/3 of my entire life. I am now totally off all drugs, even non-psych drugs and am the healthiest I've even been.

it's great!!

Jumping in here: that is so so encouraging, @Happy2Heal. Inspirational that one can recover after so many years and drugs from this scary place. I am 51 and consider the past year the worst of my life and I survived a wack childhood and a brain tumor. This is far more intense. * Good luck, JLex!

[Happy2Heal]

4 hours ago, JLex1981 said:

Funny how I went from 15 to 5 with little to no problems then 4 and boom... could be mental though as I was thinking of 5 as a critical benchmark. I have to give it a chance and stop ruminating so much on it... One day at a time ! 

 

oh no, it's not mental, once you get to the lower doses you feel each drop more. There's a chart on here somewhere that shows why this is. If I understand it correctly, the drug is made so strong that it takes very little to shut down the serotonin receptors in your brain, and anything over that amount in dosage is basically overkill- it has very little additional effect.
So when you drop from a high dose, the effect on your brain is minimal, because the added "benefit" (and I use that term loosely) was so inconsequential. But once you get down to the lower doses, things really start to change in your brain and you feel it more.

 

aha! I found the link to the info 

 

 

if you don't feel better in a few days or if you symptoms ramp up even more, you *might* want to consider a tiny tiny updose... it's a very personal decision. what sucks is that there's no way to know in advance if it will help or make things worse.

my benchmark was if things felt intolerable and I was afraid that suicidal thoughts would get acted on, I'd consider updosing a wee bit. 

 

everyone has their own limits to how much discomfort they can handle. 

 

 

[Happy2Heal]

 

possibly better links:

 

 

 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/014sbfem734e3cd/cymbalta_5HTT_occupancy_curves.jpg

[Happy2Heal]

4 hours ago, FarmGirlWorks said:

Jumping in here: that is so so encouraging, @Happy2Heal. Inspirational that one can recover after so many years and drugs from this scary place. I am 51 and consider the past year the worst of my life and I survived a wack childhood and a brain tumor. This is far more intense. * Good luck, JLex!

thanks FGW, yes it is incredible how intense WD is!! I am so glad that I'm doing as well as I am, I have a lot going against me.

Now I can look forward to the rest of my life with a relatively clear head and all my emotions and awareness intact. I was in such a self absorbed, drugged up,  un feeling fog for so long and didn't even know it, really. I kept doing the same things over and over and over again, it was like I wasn't able to learn from my mistakes. Very strange the effects of these drugs on our brain, but not really surprising. Anything for a buck, eh Big Pharma, regardless of how much harm it does (insert massive amount of disgust and disdain here)

 

 

[JLex1981]

Thanks Happy2heal, this has been my worst day yet, sucks, having issues sleeping, dry mouth, high anxiety, no appetite. Stomach feels a little better now, trying to get down a sandwich, slowly 👍🏻👍🏻 I will definitely hold this 4ML for awhile after this experience. I may consider a slight increase after a few more

of these days, but I agree that it might just make things worse. I know it sounds bad but has anyone taken a lorezepam or something just once in a blue when the withdrawal symptoms get real bad and anxiety is through the roof? Would this help? 

[Happy2Heal]

3 minutes ago, JLex1981 said:

I know it sounds bad but has anyone taken a lorezepam or something just once in a blue when the withdrawal symptoms get real bad and anxiety is through the roof? Would this help? 

it doesn't sound bad, it sounds normal- when we're suffering we just want it to stop

 

I ended up going on a very very low dose of lamictal to help me sleep because I was just so exhausted. I went for many months on only maybe 20 mins sleep here and 20 mins sleep there, and I felt I couldn't keep going like that. The anxiety/fear/panic/dread/terror  was awful, I felt I needed to try something.

I  had actually been on both lexapro and klonopin when I started going off the lexapro but I had rarely ever taken the klonopin, maybe a half or a quarter of a 0.5mgs tablet once or twice a month.
Unfortunately I discovered that, from going up and down in doses so many times, so many CTs too, I was so sensitive to all drugs that the tiny bit of klonopin I tried when the lexapro WD got really bad, it didn't work and instead went paradoxical, and made things worse

it's another one of those things that you can't really know in advance how it will go for you, might be ok, might make things worse.

if you've never taken a benzo now is def not the time to start, in my humble opinion. 

 

 

I'm super tired right now or I'd just check your thread, but are you using magnesium? that helps probably more than any drug.

 

also epsom salt soaks help 

and meditation, yoga, etc can give you some temporary relief.

 

hopefully others will weigh in with their suggestions

 

have you read Claire Weeks book, google it, that's a really helpful resource for anxiety

Also deep breathing and um, I am so tired I'm drawing a blank, will get back to you later

 

 

[JLex1981]

Thanks so much for all the support Happy2Heal, it really does mean allot when you go through crap like this to know others have too and can help. I have been taking Magnesium and Fish Oil accompanied with Vitamin E . I feel like I need to order the Magnesium Glycinate that other recommend though. I feel you with that sleep, it is so intermittent and annoying ! I do work out and haven’t read that book about Anxiety but have read Eckhart Tolles “the power of now” which has helped me. I also meditate, did Yoga for a little than stopped. May start it up again in the future. 

 

Hope all is well in your land . 

 

JLex 

[FarmGirlWorks]

2 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

I was in such a self absorbed, drugged up,  un feeling fog for so long and didn't even know it, really. I kept doing the same things over and over and over again, it was like I wasn't able to learn from my mistakes.

Exactly!!!

[JLex1981]

Does anyone know how long it usually takes to stabilize? I only went from 5-4MG of Lexapro and started that 03-26. Last week I started to get dry mouth, chills, loss of appetite, insomnia, anxiety. It’s been over a month now, shouldn’t I be stabilizing ? 

[Gridley]

Unfortunately, there is no way to predict how long it can take to stabilize after a drop.  Your drop from 5mg to 4 mg was a 20% drop, a large drop at this low dose.  As Happy2Heal posted earlier in this thread, you might consider a very small updose, perhaps .5mg.  Or else you can wait it out.  Please read:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms. -- at least the first page of the topic

 

[JLex1981]

Thanks Gridley, I figure I’ve gone this far might as well ride it out. Sucks !! Thanks for the reply it is really appreciated. 

 

JLex 

[SkyBlue]

On 4/24/2018 at 5:14 PM, JLex1981 said:

I will definitely hold this 4ML for awhile after this experience. 

 

Hi John, 

Welcome to SA. I'm so glad it sounds like you are planning on holding for a while. That is such a good idea. 

 

Like Gridley said, it's hard to say when someone will stabilize because everyone is individual. 

But it seems that holding is such a blessing for our nervous systems. 

 

I've personally felt that holding (for example, last year I held for three months) seems to stabilize my system to allow me to continue (slowly!) tapering. I think of it as a vacation for my CNS! (Central nervous system). : ) 

 

 

[JLex1981]

It’s official, reinstated 04-26 to 4.4ML to ease withdrawal symptoms. Fingers crossed 🤞 Maybe I’ll be able to sleep for more than 20 minutes 

[JLex1981]

Has anyone done a 10% Lexapro taper succesfully?

[JLex1981]

Has anyone done a 10% Lexapro Taper succesfully? 

[Altostrata]

To answer that question, please use search in the Introductions forum for "lexapro" or "escitalopram"

 

We wouldn't recommend the 10% method if we didn't see it work.

[JLex1981]

Hi Alto!

thanks for the response ! I’m not seeing too many positive things when I do that unfortunately 😞 do you remember that post with the 10% taper graph ? That was a nice success story someone wrote . 

[Gridley]

 "Success Stories" is one of SA's mains forums, like "Introductions" and "Tapering," which comes up when you first access SA.  There are many encouraging stories there.   

 

[Happy2Heal]

it can take some time but if you look around the forum you'll see plenty of folks who have done the years long tapers at 10% or even less and done well.

while each drug is slightly different, so is each person, so while it helps to see how others coped and to see that yes, we do indeed heal, it's not going to make any difference to how your personal journey thru withdrawal goes

 

I know for many ppl, their healing will  follow the often mentioned 'windows and waves' pattern. Mine has not, not really. I have had steady progress all along, getting better, never getting worse. I've stalled and had some symptoms stick around but every single day I've been able to find at least one thing that has gotten better.

While I messed up my taper at the beginning, getting down to 2.5mgs very quickly, then unfortunately jumping off at 2.5mgs just a few months later and needing to re instate, the taper that I did from that time forward was the 10% taper.

 

I finally got down to zero using the 10% cuts every 4 or 5 weeks, in October.

 

next Oct I will be allowed to write my success story, but I feel I've already been successful as far as getting thru the symptoms of withdrawal and am now recovered.

 

I wish I could remember which person has that graph but there's a bunch of good success stories, have you read BrassMonkey's? or JanCarol or Aeroman or Pug?

 

there's folks who have been on cocktails of meds, some for decades, who have recovered fully and are doing great.

 

 

also many people are able to quit these drugs and have no symptoms or only minimal ones; they are not going to show up on a forum like this but believe me, they exist

 

I personally have several friends who stopped lexapro, abilify, paxil and others and had no problems. 

 

you're going to be ok. how are you doing since you reinstated a tiny bit? feeling any better?

 

 

 

[JLex1981]

Hi 👋🏻 Happy!

Always glad to see your response ! I am feeling better with the reinstatement. Sleeps a little off but I do have a stressful work week coming up which has caused me some anxiety but that’s to be expected. I have been feeling better everyday though and thank goodness for that. I don’t mean to be negative but sometimes I want to see some positive stuff out there! I guess you’re right though, people tend to post when they’re feeling badly. Think I’m going to stick @ 4.4MG for a bit after this, lol. But, I can’t complain that much, I’ve been up and about and feeling better ! Hope all is well with you Happy! 😃 

[JLex1981]

Hi Guys !

Little update... was doing OK with the reinstate up until today... Couldn't sleep last night and been having extreme anxiety all day. Is this a sign that re-instatement wasn't enough? Should I go back to 5MG which is where I had no withdrawal?

 

Any help appreciated.

 

Thanks,

JLEX.

[Happy2Heal]

16 minutes ago, JLex1981 said:

Hi Guys !

Little update... was doing OK with the reinstate up until today... Couldn't sleep last night and been having extreme anxiety all day. Is this a sign that re-instatement wasn't enough? Should I go back to 5MG which is where I had no withdrawal?

 

Any help appreciated.

 

Thanks,

JLEX.

I would think that if you've been doing ok since you reinstated that this is NOT a sign that it's not working, rather it's just, well, one bad night.

It's easy to worry that it's the start of a series of bad nights, esp when that's what you've had in the past, but you need to resist that fear about the future.

 

the anxiety is bound to help cause a sleepless night and another anxious day.

Some of your symptoms are the normal waves of the withdrawal and some will be from your thinking and fears about what is happening and uncertainty about the future.

 

it's very hard to do, it's probably the hardest part of recovery, but you need to not look at each change as a potential disaster or sign that things will deteriorate. There's no reason to ignore them either, just try to keep a level head about it

 

it's even harder when you are dealing with the chemically caused anxiety that makes you think that there's gotta be something scary going on.

there isn't anything scary happening, it's just your brain doing the work it needs to do to get back to it's pre-medicated state

 

In my humble opinion its best not to panic and make any sudden changes based on one bad day or night, or even several.

 

others may weigh in but that's my thoughts on it.

you need to start to think beyond the drug being the solution anyway- when you have a sleepless night, or uptick in anxiety, you want to be thinking about self care measures and what other tools you have to deal with these annoyances.

 

what do you normally do to help yourself calm down or to help you sleep? what works and what makes things worse?

you may need to experiment and change things up a bit

 

at the start of my recovery, I could not sleep in the dark and I had to have a TV or radio on at all times. but then the stuff on the tv started to bother me and even music I used to find relaxing, no longer soothed me so I went to listening to long boring meditation videos, for literally hours at a time, over and over again

 

keep looking for things that help. have you tried epsom salt baths or yoga? putting your legs up the wall?

 

[JLex1981]

Hi Happy !

Yeah,,, this withdrawal crap really takes it's toll on you... I just want to make the right decision because these things take so long to work etc.... It's hard not think that pills are the solution when that literally is what you're withdrawing from ! When you tapered back up to 20mgs on 2013 from 5mg did you feel better? I just think maybe i went too fast from 5MG to 4MG and that messed me up so going back to where there were no withdrawal symptoms will start me over then in the future I can go back down... 

 

Always good to hear from you !!

JLEX. 

[Happy2Heal]

13 minutes ago, JLex1981 said:

! When you tapered back up to 20mgs on 2013 from 5mg did you feel better? I just think maybe i went too fast from 5MG to 4MG and that messed me up so going back to where there were no withdrawal symptoms will start me over then in the future I can go back down... 

 

 

OMG no no no, going back up from 5 to 20 was AWFUL and the worst part was, I wasn't aware of the reason why things were so bad. I didn't know about withdrawal, I believed what the drs said, that I was now mentally sicker and not instead suffering from WD.

I was all over the damn map, I had a combo of withdrawal symptoms and side effects and probably some poop out as well. 

No, going back up and then down again and up again- THAT is what caused the severe acute WD I ended up in. that's what you want to AVOID

 

your brain has already worked hard to adjust to the changes you've made. You want to try hard to stay STABLE

 

as tempting as it is, going back up is NOT going to solve the problem and may even prolong your recovery.

as soon as I stopped messing with my dose, things settled down. and steadily got better.

 

that said, once you are having symptoms, it's likely going to take some time for them to improve.

probably weeks or even months, not days.

 

but don't think too far ahead when you are feeling crappy. at those times, think only of getting thru the present moment

 

if it helps, think of other horrible things that can happen to a person and realize that you're not living in abject poverty, you have a roof over your head and food to eat, you are sheltered from the elements, in short, your life is good. yes WD recovery is unpleasant but try to put it in perspective and it may help to lessen your suffering somewhat. 

 

you can make it thru this. you'll probably look back on it as one of the hardest things you've ever done but it's do able

many many others have gone down this same path and made it out the other side

 

you're going to be ok

 

what are you going to do tonight to help with the anxiety about not sleeping? do you have things to distract you? are there friends you can hang out with to take your mind off things? do you have a hobby? anything good on tv?

 

you're doing great. tell yourself that anxiety is just a FEELING and feelings are not facts

 

feelings are ALWAYS temporary and soon you will feel something else

 

does that help even a little bit?

 

[JLex1981]

Hi Happy ! Yes, this does help 😀 and thank you for being so kind. I will do all I can to keep my mind off of this for the weekend. I usually keep the TV on too, to soothe myself to sleep. I will try to make it as dark as possible too because I am sensitive to light. Thanks for the tips !