Evss

[Evss]

Hey everyone,

I would like to introduce myself and hope to get some personalized support. I've been reading through much of the content and only wish I had done so earlier this year. Alas, I find myself in a very difficult situation now. Thanks in advance for having me here.

 

My situation is a little unusual so bear with me, please. I had a health crisis last July (2017) that resulted in severe fatigue, insomnia, anxiety, heart palpitations and brain fog. This came after years of health issues that compounded into an unsettling of my nervous system.

 

I was so freaked out that on the advice of the Amen clinic, I flew down to California in July and had 3 ketamine infusions and was prescribed low dose seroquel for sleep. The ketamine seemed to take the edge off the anxiety, although initially it made things worse. I used an alpha stim right after which really helped and continued using seroquel for sleep for the next few months until it finally stopped working. Sadly, my health crisis lead me to give up completely on life and become reckless. Now I understand it wasn't so much the health crisis but the underlying unresolved emotional conditions that made it so.

 

So from that point on until middle of February 2018, i was adamant that I would end my life and even though I had a lot of support, I really didn't care anymore. I didn't have the guts to go through with it, however and finally decided in February i wanted to live. That's just some background. In late October 2017, I started taking amitriptyline that my Dad had- it had helped him when he went through a severe health challenge and I was desperate for sleep. Because I was so careless, I would take it sporadically and in various doses, up to 150 mg. It's hard to remember but I believe I took it at least every other day. I tried stopping it a few times but couldn't sleep well without it. Looking back, I can't believe I ruined my nervous system with my own two hands- no doctor prescribed me this med  

 

So when I made the decision to live, I decided no more amitriptyline because it made me sleep too long and left me feeling foggy, depressed and just generally off. I stopped taking it around mid February and for the  next 5-6 weeks, continued to try not using it but would end up having to take some every 5-6 days because the anxiety and insomnia were too much. I then learned that antidepressants shouldn't be abruptly discontinued and decided to reinstate at 25 mg which I did for the next 3-4 weeks. Even with that,  the anxiety, insomnia, OCD, fatigue were not improving much so out of desperation last week, i took a big dose of 125 mg and immediately experienced a negative reaction which I believe was serotonin syndrome. Heart palpitations, anxiety, loss of balance, muscle twitching.

 

I got really scared and took about 4 grams of phenibut to counteract this. I then slept for about 15-16 hours and woke up with a crazy mental state- I was crying and screaming uncontrollably the whole next day. Then, because of fear of withdrawals, I took a 25 mg dose 2 days later and again developed anxiety and heart palpitations which I again counteracted with phenibut. The next day, I developed brain zaps and have since not been taking it because i'm afraid my body is now sensitized to it.

 

I saw my doctor today and had him muscle test it on me and my body really doesn't like it. So now I have to cold turkey it and I'm so upset at myself for doing this and worried about how I'm going to make it through with my already super sensitive nervous system. To give some perspective, I needed to sleep at least 12 hours before I ever started this med due to my health condition and even with that I had severe fatigue, light/sound sensitivity and POTS symptoms. Now I have to deal with all that on top of the drug withdrawal which hasn't even started yet and I already have so many symptoms. 

 

Has anyone experienced cold turkey amitriptyline withdrawals?

 

I hope and pray I'll have the strength to survive these next few years of my life. I'm already barely holding on. 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Evss.

 

On 4/27/2018 at 9:31 PM, Evss said:

I needed to sleep at least 12 hours before I ever started this med due to my health condition and even with that I had severe fatigue, light/sound sensitivity and POTS symptoms. Now I have to deal with all that on top of the drug withdrawal which hasn't even started yet and I already have so many symptoms. 

2

 

It seems you are familiar with techniques of self-medication. Were you taking any supplements or nootropics when you developed light/sound sensitivity and POTS symptoms, etc. before amitriptyline?

 

We do have people here who are recovering from cold turkey from various drugs, including amitriptyline. It sounds to me like you further sensitized your system by your irregular use of amitriptyline, and phenibut (a benzodiazepine) etc. so your situation is not strictly that of cold turkey.

 

You will need to let your nervous system settle down. There's not much you can do to force it, you need to treat it gently. What is your current sleep pattern?

 

Please see Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

 

 

A lot of people find them helpful. Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

To help us out, see these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature

[Evss]

Thank you. 

Yes, it was between supplements, stress and excessive sauna use that I developed the high sensitivity. I was trying all sorts of things to heal my adrenals, completely unaware it was the nervous system that regulates everything. So I was using minerals, vitamins, amino acids, herbs, enzymes, desiccated adrenal (drenamin). Probably about ten pills a day. 

I will have to try out fish oil. Last time I took magnesium citrate, it had me running to the bathroom all day. 

Before the big overdose last week I was sleeping just about every night but the nights were getting shorter progressively. Now I am sleeping even less, like last night I didn’t even sleep at all. Everything has flipped since then actually. I have this weird energy I haven’t had in months and I’m not as foggy brained and my sleep is all over the place. I have a hunch it’s the adrenaline pumping out like mad, pulling from reserves I apparently had. I fear that will soon run out and I will crash hard. 

Is there any difference in withdrawals from trycyclics compared to SSRIs?

[Gridley]

Magnesium definitely can have a laxative effect if you take too much.  You might consider starting with a very low dose like 25mg or 50mg and see if that works.  If no problem, you could work up.  There are many types of magnesium.  I like the magnesium glycinate.

 

I have experienced withdrawal from Imipramine (a tricyclic) and Lexapro (an SSRI).  I can't say I noticed the symptoms were any different--anxiety, insomnia, anhedonia, apathy, weight loss being the main ones.  But it's hard to say, since I first tapered the Imipramine, then held and started the Lexapro taper, so my symptoms may be from a combination of both,.  Or they may be from diminishing the sedative (brake) effect of the Imipramine.

[Altostrata]

Please do not take anything that stimulates the adrenals. The adrenals are sending out anxiety and panic hormones.

[Evss]

This was last June that I was taking all these. 

[Evss]

I wonder if the amount of time on the drug has any correlation with the withdrawals symptoms or length...?

[SkyBlue]

8 hours ago, Evss said:

I wonder if the amount of time on the drug has any correlation with the withdrawals symptoms or length...?

 

Hi Evss,

 

It really doesn't seem to correlate. Withdrawal can be unpredictable and doesn't seem to follow set patterns regarding amount of time on the drug. That's why we caution people to go slowly and have as much patience as possible while developing self-care techniques that will help them. 

 

 

[Evss]

Please someone just tell me I can recover my old self. I used to be such a beautiful soul, happy and outgoing, full of hope and charisma. My heart was always brimming, my humor on point and I had so much fun all the time! I am so scared that I am cut off from her now, that after I go through all this, I'll never be the same again. And I want so much to just reverse time and go back to being her again. I don't know what mechanism in the brain controls personality and emotion; I just can't seem to connect to my own soul, my essence. The part of me that's "me" and I wonder, can I be that strong, confident person, smart and everything else I've forgotten, will it return? In my dreams, I am running from depression, from fatigue and I can't find help anywhere. 

I am worried too, that as this unravels, I will go further and further from myself. As of right now, I can still faintly see her but the memory is fading. 

[SkyBlue]

Evss, it is very likely you will recover your real self. That is what healing from these drugs is all about. It can be a difficult journey, to be sure.

 

Do you have good coping techniques in place? 

 

This is a good place to start:

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Just curious if you are still taking the adrenal supplements? If not, please update your signature when you get a chance. 

I know it can seem counter-intuitive to rest when all we want to do is get back to life. But it really does seem to be the best thing.

 

Everyone will have what works for them, but healing is definitely possible. I wouldn't still be here if it wasn't. It hasn't been as linear or as quick as I'd like, for sure -- but the moments when I glimpse my true, true self and feel true human emotions are absolutely priceless. 

 

[Evss]

Quote

 

Thank you SkyBlue.

I am still figuring out my coping techniques. I used to color and spend time with friends but I'm having a hard time being motivated now. And all I can do is rest. Not been able to work in over a year now. I take a different adrenal supplement now that is non stimulating. 

I am trying to figure out what happened to my brain. Maybe it shuts down certain things when overwhelmed but I wonder if it will still remember them later down the road? 

I just want to cry and cry for all I've lost and all that's to come... 

[Songbird]

Hello Evss, your real self is still there, even at times when you feel like you can't access it.  I like to think of it as being like the sun.  Clouds can cover the sky so we can't see the sun, they can even be very dark and stormy, but the sun is still there, it hasn't gone anywhere.  Eventually the clouds move on, the sky clears and we can see the sun again.

[Evss]

Thank you, Songbird. I appreciate it. 

Do you know where the HBOT link is? I can't find it

[Evss]

Well, I am now officially two months out from my cold turkey off amitriptyline. All I can say is things are getting much worse. My sleep is terrible and I have horrible nightmares every night. I've had to increase my phenibut usage to 6000 mg every other day. I usually sleep only every other day even with that and the duration is getting less and less. I am not able to move much because my heart is constantly pounding and palpitating. I can't tolerate heat, sound or activity. I'm running out of hope quickly. If it wasn't for the phenibut, i know I wouldn't have made it even this far. 

I really hope stem cell therapy can help. How could it hurt? Administering stem cells directly into the brain via intranasal route I imagine could only help the healing process. I just don't know what to do. Every day things are worse and it's hard to sit here, hour after hour, alone, miserable and absolutely exhausted. 

[ChessieCat]

 

39 minutes ago, Evss said:

I've had to increase my phenibut usage to 6000 mg every other day.

 

Here is SA's topic:

 

kavinace-phenibut-or-phenyl-gaba-for-sleep

 

Because of its similar action to psychiatric drugs and the fact that it needs to be tapered it would probably be better for you to take the same dose every day.  SA recommends not skipping days because it bounces the brain around.  As an example see:  Skipping Days vs Every Day Dosing Graph 

 

Please add phenibut dates, doses to your signature Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

[ChessieCat]

I've just done a bit of research on phenibut dosage and found this from here https://phenibuthero.com/phenibut-dosage/:

 

Having said that, here are two solid rules to always keep in mind for successful phenibut use:

1. A typical dosage should be between 750 and 1500mg (varying from person to person).
   
2. Do not consume more than 2000mg of phenibut in a 24-hour period.
   
    

If you read from other sites that going over 2000mg is doable, we recommend not listening to them.

And it's not that what they're saying is untrue.

 

But doing so is when the unpleasant side effects start to kick in.

 

Keep reading to see why it is important to dose properly (and therefore follow our two golden rules).

It'll save you from a lot of headache in the future.

[ChessieCat]

Because of the high dosage you are taking together with alternating days, you could be experiencing side effects from phenibut and/or withdrawal symptoms.

[Evss]

I worked up to this dosage out of desperation to stay functional/ alive. I figured better to stay alive and have this other addiction then what can happen if worst comes to worst. Understandably, it's not ideal AT ALL. I wish I didn't have to take it. But with my heart the way it is, I didn't have much of a choice due to the severity of the symptoms. I know I will have to taper down eventually. My body and brain are so weak. I've already been through major health issues for years prior to this so it's kind of the worse possible scenario. Cold turkey withdrawal on a super frazzled body/brain. Yikes. I am scared for my life and am looking for all potential solutions. 

[ChessieCat]

Just wanted to make sure that you had the information.

[Evss]

Thank you so much. I appreciate your time and effort.

[Altostrata]

I'm sorry, we don't support problems arising from gray market or recreational drugs such as phenibut, we just don't know anything about them. You might try bluelight.com

 

As Chessie said, what we've seen with psychoactive drugs is that if you are physiologically dependent, it's best to take a steady dose at the same time each day to identify side effects -- without overdosing. Dosage reduction should be slow and methodical. If you get withdrawal or rebound symptoms when you're not taking the drug or when you reduce dosage, that's an indication you are physiologically dependent.

[Evss]

I feel very much that I am being misunderstood here. I am not for drugs, either. I wish I never started any of them. I am just trying to figure out my own situation. Instead of stabilizing, I am getting worse which is why I increased the phenibut use. I guess it's normal to get worse and worse after only 2 months but it's very frightening. My situation is complicated, that's for sure. I wish there was someone that could offer any advice who has been through something similar. Entering cold turkey withdrawal on an already destabilized and weak nervous system is beyond what most people are dealing with, I think. 

After the serotonin syndrome, I think I had mania for awhile because I actually had more energy than usual. And now things are really falling apart.

I pray I will make it out of this somehow. 

[Evss]

If it wasn't for the pre existing condition and the serotonin syndrome, I would have been able to do a taper.... Alas, I just found out my doctor has fired me so now I don't have even medical care  

[Songbird]

4 hours ago, Evss said:

I am getting worse which is why I increased the phenibut use.

 

This is what happens with benzo tolerance.  You have to keep upping the dose to cope with tolerance withdrawal.  Phenibut seems to be similar to benzos in many ways, and you are taking huge doses.  Many of your problems could be related to phenibut rebound or tolerance.  We don't really cover phenibut withdrawal here, but you might find this topic helpful:  The rule of 3KIS - keep it simple keep it slow keep it stable

[Evss]

Well, I was taking it to help with the amitriptyline cold turkey. And I was already taking 750 mg of phenibut a day. I've just had to increase phenibut as the withdrawals from amitriptyline have intensified.