Hannaht2012 One more to go

[Hannaht2012]

Hi have recently ( last 6 months )successfully come of 4 of the 5 meds I was prescribed after my Psy Doc reluctantly agreed. Followed Drs regiment to some degree although I feel it was too quick at times. So far so good. Functioning better than past . Working closely with professionals re diet ( gut health) and exercise. Feel the AD I am still on is holding me back from lifting the bar to next level. Would like to come off current med or at least try . So in summary was on 5 psych drugs now on 1 . An interesting challenge awaits. Thanks😘

[Petunia]

Welcome Hannaht,

I'm glad you found us, it sounds like you have come off a lot of drugs in a very short time. We suggest reducing by no more than 10% of the current dose every 4 weeks, this reduces the risk of withdrawal symptoms arising. Please read through this which will explain why:

  

Why taper by 10% of my dosage? 

 

Its great that you are feeling better, but I suggest you don't do any more tapering for now, give yourself chance to recover from the recent changes and some time to see if any withdrawal symptoms develop over the next few months.  Some people have problems stopping these medications fast, and symptoms can be delayed by weeks, months or in rare cases up to a year. I tapered off lexapro over the course of 2 - 3 months, and was fine for about 3 months, then delayed withdrawal symptoms began to develop, they progressively got worse over the next year. I''m not saying this will happen to you, but its not uncommon. Unfortunately, when this happens, many doctors will believe its your original condition returning or they will diagnose a new illness and offer more drugs. In some cases this may be true, but usually the symptoms of withdrawal have unique and new qualities which were not present before. Its important you understand this and can avoid being misdiagnosed and re-medicated unnecessarily should it happen.

 

We ask members to put their drug and withdrawal history in the signature section. It appears below each of your posts and helps us to help you. Here are instructions for how to do it:

 

Please put your withdrawal history in your signature

 

 

Once we have a few more details about your situation, we may be able to offer some helpful suggestions.

 

Petunia.

 

[Hannaht2012]

Hi this is my first topic on this site. Firstly thanks for providing a site to enable some focus on the future. I am currently taking 300mg of Effexor XR once daily. Have in the last 6 months come off Lamoctal , Lithium, Brintelex and Seraqual. Could function much better after this triumph. However in the last 2-3 weeks have spiraled slowly down. It is my intention to come off the Effexor. I feel my body is screaming for some change . The same feeling I had prior to coming of the above mentioned. I am working with GP ,2 pharmacist and 2 holistic practitioners. I was going to use the 10% regime however was advised by a pharmacist that the XR capsules containing coated beads are not all coated so it’s impossible to know what bead is XR and what isn’t. I am advised to obtain a script for the 75 and 36.5 drug and go down in 36.5 mg increments. Example. 300 - 36.5mg . Hold for 6 weeks and if successful hold for another month . Then continue another 36.5 decrease. Ect ect . I have a drs appointment tomorrow to obtain the scripts for the lower dose drugs . Any advise , comments, questions are welcome. Have been on some sort of psych drug in varied amounts, types , quantities for over 20 years with Effexor being the longest totaling approx 12 years . Any help is appreciated. Thanks 

[Petunia]

Welcome Hannaht,

I'm glad you found us and decided to start a topic, we have a lot of good information and friendly support here. Congratulations on deciding to come off your medications, there are healthier, safer ways to deal with difficult emotions.

 

But that's a lot of drugs you have come off of in a short period of time, I'm wondering if your 'body screaming for change' might actually be your body screaming in withdrawal.

 

What symptoms were you experiencing while you were taking the meds? What symptoms are you experiencing now? Over the 6 months since you stopped taking them, would you say your symptoms have become worse, better, or stayed about the same?

 

I'm concerned that if you start another taper now, you might destabilize your nervous system more than it already is, which may be harder to recover from.

 

Even though you feel better in some ways, the fact that you now have withdrawal symptoms indicates that you tapered too fast. We suggest reducing by no more than 10% of the current dose every 4 weeks, this reduces the risk of withdrawal symptoms arising. Please read through this which will explain why:

  

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?  (The general philosophy of gradual tapering) 

 

Of course its completely your decision, but I would wait until you have recovered from your current withdrawal before starting another taper. Once the nervous system becomes unstable and sensitized, symptoms can be extreme and  can take much longer to recover from. I'm speaking from experience, having gone through this myself.

 

The taper you are suggesting for Effexor is much too fast, we recommend the 10% method for all psyche drugs. Many members have successfully used this method to taper off EffexorXR. I've never heard what you mentioned about only some of the beads being coated.

 

Here is our Effexor tapering topic with several different alternatives for tapering by 10%  Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine)

 

I will ask for help from other mods who have more experience with tapering Effexor, I think several have been successful with the bead counting method.

 

But please consider waiting a while, acute, protracted withdrawal and nervous system damage can be extremely unpleasant, and difficult to recover from, there is no cure or treatment and it can completely disrupt your life and normal everyday functioning, lasting months and even years in the more severe cases. Effexor can be a difficult drug to taper from even for someone who starts out with a stable nervous system.

 

You can use this thread as your ongoing journal to track progress, write about symptoms, ask questions and communicate with the community, add to it whenever you want. Its a good idea to bookmark it or follow it, so its easy to find again. 

 

I hope your doctor appointment goes well.

 

Petunia.

[Hannaht2012]

Hi Petunia. Thanks for your prompt reply and kind support. Going back approximately 6 months from now I was discharged from a local private MH clinic feeling much worse than admitted. A week after discharge I couldn’t function so I felt it was crunch time and drastic changes had to be employed. And drastic , dangerous and excruciating it was . I demanded the “wash out” via my Psyc Doc  who after much procrastination agreed and scratched out the requiments on a piece of A4 and sent me on my way . He refused to admit me as an inpatient. I appreciate your comments and concerns regarding damage from withdrawal. I was truly desperate and was a life or death decision. I ignored much of his protocol and took it much slower than advised . I simply listened to my body and it was saying run and don’t look back . Withdrawal symptoms then included the usual , confusion, fatigue, etc . However at the same time I pushed myself to exercise and diet correctly . After a long while I started to feel energised and much more motivated, still struggled much of the time but felt better than I had since my last breakdown 4 years earlier.

I am definitely functioning much better after the 6 months off the 4 drugs mentioned. I was misdiagnosed as BP 2 a few years ago and promptly put on lithium. I believe this drug had the worst side affects for me and could feel a relief when it was finally ceased . The Seraqual was a PRN so not a real big issue. I have lost 13kg in the last six months through exercise and diet . I think the last couple of weeks have been a bit tough due to contracting influenza and a couple of silly drinking sessions. Haven’t exercised for at least a week due to lack of energy/ motivation however mentally I am feeling reasonably sharp and conscious of my actions. Re Effexor. I totally agree with the 10% recommendation. I am currently working with 2 pharmacist an 2 naturopaths one of whom come off Effexor herself . Both the pharmacist suggested as I first mentioned. Not all the beads are coated the same so therefore you don’t know what is slow release and what isn’t. I am in Australia and using a common pharmacutical brand . Not sure if it is protocol to name it ??? But it does state MODIFIED RELEASE on the box ?? I will ask Dr tomorrow however I don’t think he will know . Hence there recommendation re - 36.5 mg and “ stabilise “for up to 11 weeks ?? Both the pharmacist explained that the beads are coated differently to enable a 12 hr true release . Not my forte so don’t know however I would still rather the 10% method. I will read the links as recommended and do some more resurch on this end . One thing I do have left in my life is time. My 20 years of drug therapy has been many and varied even up to the old MAOs I would be surprised if there isn’t acute nervous system damage already. Numerous sessions of ECT and TMS would have made sure of that I would think . However if you could have seen me 6 months ago I think you would agree it was the best thing I have ever done.

thanks again 

take care

Hannaht

 

 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Hannah.

 

6 hours ago, Hannaht2012 said:

Re Effexor. I totally agree with the 10% recommendation. I am currently working with 2 pharmacist an 2 naturopaths one of whom come off Effexor herself . Both the pharmacist suggested as I first mentioned. Not all the beads are coated the same so therefore you don’t know what is slow release and what isn’t. I am in Australia and using a common pharmacutical brand . Not sure if it is protocol to name it ??? But it does state MODIFIED RELEASE on the box ?? I will ask Dr tomorrow however I don’t think he will know . Hence there recommendation re - 36.5 mg and “ stabilise “for up to 11 weeks ?? Both the pharmacist explained that the beads are coated differently to enable a 12 hr true release .

 

Very few doctors or pharmacists know anything about tapering psychiatric drugs.

 

Effexor XR does not come in 36.5mg capsules. A 37.5mg decrease on 300mg Effexor may be acceptable for the first month, it's close enough to 10%. But a 37.5mg on the second round would be more than 14% of 262.5mg. Do you see how the percentage of decrease keeps getting bigger if you go on subtracting 37.5,mg?

 

This is not a gradual taper, it speeds up the lower you go. Not a good idea.

 

Counting beads is the most convenient way to gradually taper Effexor XR. Most of the people here tapering Effexor are counting beads out of Effexor XR capsules. We know this can be successful. Please use search for "Effexor" or "venlafaxine" in the Introductions forum to see others tapering Effexor.

 

Whatever variation there is in Effexor beads, it all averages out. Some people weigh their doses to make sure the dosage is consistent.

 

For more about methods of tapering Effexor, please read the link Petunia gave you Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine) If yours is a compounding pharmacy, they could make custom capsules in special dosages to help you taper.

[Hannaht2012]

Hi Altrostrata , sorry for slow reply , different time line . I am replying to your blog whilst in my Dr waiting room . Ok I agree entirely on your recommendation and was going to use the orgs recommendation as I have been researching through your site in the past . I will ask for a script for both 37.5 and 75 mg . He has agreed to help me with this when I visited last .

 

I have decided to drop the 37.5 first up then proceed with the 10% < regiment.

 

Given I was on 150mg for 12 years and taken off the drug in 5 days in a “ controlled “ clinic  situation as an inpatient my observation is your recommendation is both Conservative and safe . 

 

I have no doubt irreparable damage has occurred to my psychic /neurological health through past MH “care” . I have observed many other fellow travelers to think otherwise. Very sad.

 

my last visit 6 weeks ago to my psych doc ,he , for the first time in 20 years showed emotion relating to my recent effort of getting of the drugs they had me on . Putting his head in his hands he proclaimed “ I don’t know how this is possibly working “ . And then asked if I was on anything else to sustain functioning. Don’t know , but I think he was meaning elicit drugs . I ignored the question.

I am a very determint , resilient person . But in reality it is all about instinct to survive.

So here goes .

I will start the controlled program tomorrow and hang on .

Thanks again for your support.

Will keep posting results.

stay well

Hannaht

[Altostrata]

Good to hear, Hanna. Having gone on and off drugs in the past, your nervous system might be rather sensitive to dosage decreases.

 

But before you reduce Effexor -- how are you feeling having gone off all those drugs recently? Maybe you should give your nervous system a rest from drug changes, they can be hard on that delicate web of nerves.

 

Not sure what your psychiatrist was talking about. I think they are becoming more and more confused about their drugs.

[Hannaht2012]

Hi Altostrata  , Thanks for your reply / concerns. Have already started decrease in Effexor as of  yesterday. 300 - 37.5 as we discussed. I intend to go forward with this for 4 weeks minimum. Then the-10 % IF I am ready . 

 

The protracted washout 6 + months ago was , as I have learned recently total mal practice. I took it upon myself to extend it although no where near what it apparently should have been . 

 

How did I feel?? Then I felt I would not of survived if I had to continue in “ life” . I had known energy, poor to little cognitive ability, woeful memory, felt like a zombie. Heavily over medicated .

 

All I had to work with at the time was 2 psychiatrist . When I was in hospital for 6 weeks my usual Dr was on locum duties in rural Qld Aust so I was put in the  “ caring” hands of another as an inpatient. My usual doctor misdiagnosed me with BP 2 the second last time I was hospitalised about 31/2 years ago . I will come to why later .

 

the stand in Dr commented there is no way I am bipolar and continued to place me on other medications . So I know for a fact I had 2 phsyciatrists in conflict over my treatment. I was also administered daily TMS . Alarm bells where ringing not only with me but the psyc nurses . Some are human . Some told me repeatedly I “ don’t have to take this medication “ many senior nurses including the ward manager has resigned recently . 

 

Anyway poly pharmacy was alive and well and I was the meat in the sandwich.

 

 You may have been there . A very personal thing but I knew I had to get out and do something drastic to SURVIVE.

 

I was so diselusioned with my “care providers” 

 

It was a very tumultuous visit  to my Psyc Doc 2 weeks after my departure from inpatients  In summary I demanded major changes  . I was hardly functioning. He ardimently declined so I rise out of my chair shook his hand , thanked him for the past 20 years of “ service “ . And made my way to the door . He promptly called me back . All I said was if we don’t start thinking out of the box I WILL  end up in one. 

So as I described in past posts I continued . 

 

What was my symptoms in that period ? Many and varied . Fog , disorientation, mood swings, helusination , sleep, sleep , sleep. I was very fortunate to have someone I worked with when admitted who was not prepared to stand back and watch me deteriorate. She is a physiologist that works privately and services the MH ward I had frequented . Over the 5 maybe 6 admissions to this MH facility I had got to know her quite well. She lives in the same town and her office is attached to the gym I attended . She approached me and got me on the road via exercise , diet etc . Sloooooowly I started to function reasonably well. She hounded me if I didn’t attend frequent sessions. She set me programs which is really a goal setting . Was it hard. You bet ya. But it was progress . Giving up refined sugars , gluten and dairy And concentrating on good gut health foods . Is that hard ? You bet ya. Anyway before long let’s say 4 months after the wash out things started to really shift. I felt the best I had felt for many years . Psych Docs comment “ this is an element of the BP2 rising it’s head “ . As I explained and quoted DMS 5 I have no signs of hypomania , risk taking, over spending, sexual misconduct etc etc and there is no way I am going to take lithium again , so put the script book down . In my words the sky’s are blue the trees are green and the birds are singing. As you probably can appreciate, even these small insignificant observations are huge when you have been so depressed for so long . And I had energy. Not a manic energy but get up do some much needed neglected chores , exercise, walk on the beach . Smell the roses type stuff.

 

Ok so was this always the case . No I have had struggles. I would not be human if I didn’t. I still need to rest most days . Maybe an hours nap . I still get agitated but mostly at my loss of career, my wife having to bring home the bacon hurts like hell. But I am still here . Many fellow travelers I have met in the past are not .

 

I have learned the hard way in many aspects but if you need a plumber you go to a plumber . No one come to me 20+ years ago when I first broke down and said beware the white coats .

 

What my psychiatrist was talking about when he placed his note book beside his lounge chair and placed his head in his hands was this .

From the informous appointment when I made demands he quoted “ going back on an AD that I had been on in the past just doesn’t work. To explain this to you I was on 150mg of Effexor XR for 12 years . I managed to work in my career and live a relatively normal life

When I booked this appointment I asked the receptionist if my complete file could accompany the Dr .  I asked him to revise my visits with regards to times , frequencies and therapy’s including drugs . As he perused he mumbled “ then there is a 12 year gap where you went missing “ .

 

This is the period I was on the 150mg Effexor. So I said to him wash me out and let’s start there . So that’s what he did . Still proclaiming it won’t work. I actually asked him is that what the pharmacy company’s suggest . No answer ???

 

He also warned me that it is extremely dangerous and will be very uncomfortable through the cessation of the 4 drugs I mentioned. Doing it in a clinic was out of the question as he said it is not to protocol and is purely my decision.

 

I am all ears re you’re and Petunias concerns re starting the titration from the 300 mg but, even though I mentioned I haven’t been going so well recently I still feel the time is right. If I have any adverse symptoms I will be the first to back peddle. I have been to hell its getting boring. I was checked by GP Friday and he said I have bronchitis, a side effect from the influenza I have had. I refused antibiotics as he thought I would. However I am currently picking up and have returned to a modified exercise regime . Up to now I haven’t had the energy/ motivation. And a couple of heavy drinking sessions. Tomorrow my naturopath is putting me on a probiotic supplement so that doesn’t mix well with antibiotics and or alcohol. So my drinking days are over . And that’s a good thing.

 

i think my nervous system is a mess however I still think with a major life style change to support the next step to chemical freedom is achievable. 

 

Only time will tell .

thankyou so much for your support and advice.

wish me luck . 

Take Care

HannahT 

PS  sorry this ended up a book but hopefully it explains a few concerns.

🌈

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by ChessieCat
unbolded part of post, unable to unbold all & added spacing

[Carmie]

Hi Hannah, 

 

How are you doing?💚

[Hannaht2012]

Hello all , I’m Alfiejack . I have been on and off this site before but I have decided this time to utilise it’s great resources as I am planning a mammoth taper of unprecedented capacity. SAFELY! A bit of my history. After a stress related mental breakdown I succumbed to depression as many do . That was over 25 years ago . I will not go into my psychotropic drug history as it is very long and boring and you have probably heard it all before. Needless to say I have been on many and varied drugs be it mono therapy or a cocktail. Usually the later . I can’t say I have ever been in a total remission in all those years and quite frankly my life is passing me by expeditiously. I am currently prescribed 120mg once daily of Duloxetine ( Cymbalta) and 45mg of Mirtazapine. I find it very difficult to function on these dosages and don’t think I will live to see my grandchildren grow up. So it’s time to taper . And taper I will as life is too short to just exist . So wish me luck . Thanks 

[Altostrata]

Hello again, @Hannaht2012

 

Were you registered here as Alfiejack as well?

 

Please update your signature with your current drug information. 120mg duloxetine is quite a high dose. When was the last time your dosage was changed? When was the last time your mirtazapine dosage was changed?

 

Have you told your prescriber about your adverse effects from this drug combination?

[Hannaht2012]

Hello all I am starting my taper in about 3 weeks. I am on 120 mg of Cymbalta and 45 mg Mirtazapine daily and would like to taper off both .
I know this will take a very long time but if I utilised the brass monkey method could I taper both drugs at the same time ?? Last month Dr took me off .5mg repiratone CT . I suffered however got through unscathed.

If I was to taper one drug at a time which one would be the preferred. Not a topic for either of my Doctors. They would not condone this action and look at it as laughable.

Any thought’s would be appreciated.

[getofflex]

You had 3 introduction topics, which I have combined into one.  Thankfully, the dates are such that the conversations are all in order.  Please do not start any new topics.  This is your one introduction topic, where all discussion of your situation will take place.  Each member gets one and only one introduction topic.  This prevents confusion and duplication of effort - thank you.  

 

No, we do not suggest you taper off two drugs at one time, because if something does wrong, we won't know what is causing the problem.  

 

Since you cold turkeyed off repiratone just last month, I strongly suggest you do not start tapering another drug now.  Your nervous system needs some time to recover from the cold turkey.  It can sometimes take a while, up to several months, for people to feel the effect of something like this.  Can you please check on the spelling of this?  I cannot find this drug online, thank you.  

 

And, we will need a more detailed and complete drug signature, as Altostrata requested.  Can you please give us specific information in your signature about your drug history for all drugs and supplements you are on and have been on, especially for the past 18-24 months?  It would be especially helpful to have the details of your drugs in a concise vertical list (no symptoms), only specific dates, include the day (as best you can say for example early March if you don't recall the day), drug names, and dosages of each medication decrease or increase. Here is an example: 

 

March 12, ’22: Lexapro 5 mg, Xanax 0.5 mg, Trazodone 50 mg

March 29, ’22: Lexapro 4 mg, Xanax 0.5 mg, Trazodone 50 mg

April 17, ’22:  Lexapro 3.8 mg, Xanax 0.5 mg, Trazodone 50 mg

May 19, ’22:  Lexapro 3.8 mg, Xanax 0.5 mg, Trazodone 25 mg

 

 

Please read the link below for instructions.  This will allow us to give you the best guidance.  

 

How to List Your Drug History in Your Signature

 

The following link will help you decide which drug to start tapering first.  In general, we taper the most activating drug first, which would be the Cymbalta, unless you are having an adverse reaction to one of your drug.  

 

Which Drug to Taper First

 

Also, please answer these questions: 

 

20 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Were you registered here as Alfiejack as well?

 

Please update your signature with your current drug information. 120mg duloxetine is quite a high dose. When was the last time your dosage was changed? When was the last time your mirtazapine dosage was changed?

 

Have you told your prescriber about your adverse effects from this drug combination?