DoneWithThese: Third Time's a Charm

[DoneWithThese]

After 18 years, I am getting off of these toxic drugs. From October 2017 to April 2018 I became a different person - I am normally kind, attentive, affectionate, and even keeled, and I became the opposite. My boyfriend didn't even recognize me anymore, and I was having severe memory loss - I couldn't remember things I had said or done (still can't). I was also having tremors, involuntary muscle twitching, irregular menstrual cycle, and really stiff neck and shoulder muscles. I told my doctor about my personality changes and she suggested that I up my meds (!) (at the time I was on 300mg XL Buproprian and 225mg XL Venlafaxine) and she called in a prescription to increase my Venlafaxine to 300mg XL (isn't the top dosage 225mg?!?) 

 

At around the same time, I noticed my hair had thinned A LOT. Within less than a month I had to tighten the rubberband around my ponytail from 2 times to 4 times and I could SEE the difference). I started looking up side effects to both drugs and even though the manufacturers state hair loss is "rare" there are plenty of people that attribute their hair thinning to the antidepressants. Needless to say, I don't believe the manufacturers claims. I'm willing to bet that there are WAY MORE than 1% of people that experience that side effect. I honestly don't know if the hair loss is due to the meds, but ultimately vanity wins and that is my catalyst to finally get off these meds forever 

 

I told my Dr. that instead of increasing my meds, I was getting off all of them and I reduced the Venlafaxine from 300mg XL to 150mg XL. Within just a few days my head was clearer and I started feeling a little like myself again. I honestly believe that the meds were putting me in toxic overload since the XL prescriptions continue to accumulate. That led me to start the Venlafaxine taper listed in my signature below. I'm on day 31 with only 74 more days to go. So far, it's working great - no issues with the Venlafaxine taper, but my anxiety level started increasing over the last several days. I believe the anxiety is because of the high dosage of the Buproprian so I reduced from 300mg XL to 150 XL a few days ago. So far just a little tired but I will stay on the Buproprian 150 XL for at least a month before I start to do the 10% taper to get off completely (I'm finding the Buproprian to be more and more stimulating so I will taper this one slower or faster depending on the anxiety I feel from reducing Venlafaxine).

 

I am beyond disgusted with the pharmaceutical companies. My Dr. originally suggested 2 week intervals from 300mg XL to 150XL to 0 for Buproprian, and 225mg XL to 150mg XL to 75mg XL to 0 for Venlafaxine. I told her that was WAY too quick and emailed her exactly what I wanted to taper off the Venlafaxine and sent her the link to the taper schedule  (it's a sad day, when the PATIENT has to tell the Dr. how she wants to taper). Thankfully, she is cooperative and gave me the XL capsules and IR tablets that I will need to taper slow (3.5 months or more if necessary). And she also already gave me the Buproprian reductions (150mg XL, 100mg SR, and 75mg IR so I have them when I need them). I'm planning to reduce the Trazadone (25mg to sleep) last, especially since the Buproprian is so stimulating.

 

I've learned so much from this site so far! Even though I reduced Venlafaxine and Buproprian a lot at first (a no-no, but my vanity insisted :), I am committed to tapering slowly now until I'm completely free of all of them. I can't thank you all enough for the help and support you provide - you are one of the very few lifeboats out there!

 

 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, DoneWithThese.

 

At this point, I would hold on your tapering and let your nervous system settle down, you don't want to trigger withdrawal symptoms.

 

How did you switch from citalopram to venlafaxine?

 

Please put ALL your drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php
and copy and paste the results in this topic.

 

[DoneWithThese]

Hello Altostrata,

 

The last time I tried to stop taking the meds at the end of 2016, I was following a book about how to incorporate Amino Acids to avoid withdrawal symptoms (The Mood Cure). Obviously it didn't turn out well for me, except I was off the Citalopram (and Buproprian and Trazadone too, I think) for about two months. The one good thing from following the protocol in the book is that I did avoid the horrible brain zaps - just not the crying and doom I felt from the time I woke up till I went to bed. By the time I talked to the Dr (a new Dr because my normal Dr wasn't available), he put me on Venlafaxine instead of Citalopram. I was a complete mess so I just went along with what he said to feel better. Now I know I was in withdrawal and not relapsing and I'm mad that he put me on Venlafaxine (I've read it's one of the hardest to get off of).

 

The main reason I started tapering off the Venlafaxine is because it was the most recent one I was one and I assumed it was the cause of the side effects I was having. Since I went from Venlafaxine 225mg XL to 150mg (75mg XL + 2 x 37.5mg IR), and reduced the Buproprian from 300mg XL to 150mg XL, the side effects are better but not completely gone. I was planning to continue to taper the Venlafaxine and hold the other two at the levels I'm at now. I am open to holding the taper, however I just put all the drugs in the Drugs Interactions Checker and it pretty much freaked me out (all of them are Major interactions - see below). 

 

Do you think I should still hold the taper? Or continue with the Venlafaxine taper and hold the other two to try to rid myself of at least one of the Major interactions?

 

Interactions between your drugs

Major

Talk to your doctor before using buPROPion together with traZODone. Combining these medications may increase the risk of seizures, which may occur rarely with either medication. In addition, buPROPion can increase the blood levels of traZODone, which may increase other side effects. You may be more likely to experience seizures with these medications if you are elderly, undergoing alcohol or drug withdrawal, have a history of seizures, or have a condition affecting the central nervous system such as a brain tumor or head trauma. Your doctor may be able to prescribe alternatives that do not interact, or you may need a dose adjustment or more frequent monitoring by your doctor to safely use both medications. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol during treatment. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitaminsand herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Major

BuPROPion may rarely cause seizures, and combining it with other medications that can also cause seizures such as venlafaxine may increase that risk. You may be more susceptible if you are elderly, undergoing alcohol or drug withdrawal, have a history of seizures, or have a condition affecting the central nervous system such as a brain tumor or head trauma. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. Your doctor may be able to prescribe alternatives that do not interact, or you may need a dose adjustment or more frequent monitoring by your doctor to safely use both medications. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Major

Using traZODone together with venlafaxine can increase the risk of a rare but serious condition called the serotonin syndrome, which may include symptoms such as confusion, hallucination, seizure, extreme changes in blood pressure, increased heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, blurred vision, muscle spasm or stiffness, tremor, incoordination, stomach cramp, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Severe cases may result in coma and even death. You should seek immediate medical attention if you experience these symptoms while taking the medications. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. Your doctor may already be aware of the risks, but has determined that this is the best course of treatment for you and has taken appropriate precautions and is monitoring you closely for any potential complications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

[Altostrata]

I wish they would take The Mood Cure off the market. It means well but it's total baloney and has zero application to withdrawal symptoms.

 

27 minutes ago, DoneWithThese said:

Now I know I was in withdrawal and not relapsing and I'm mad that he put me on Venlafaxine (I've read it's one of the hardest to get off of).

 

How was your transition to venlafaxine? What were the side effects you attributed to it?

 

What times of day do you take your drugs, and at what dosages? Do you have odd symptoms during the day, and if so, at what times?

 

 

[DoneWithThese]

The transition to Venlafaxine was smoother than I thought it would be - probably because I was so desperate and such an emotional mess. As soon as I took the first pill (75mg XL) I started feeling relief from the withdrawal symptoms. Of course, then the relief stopped and the dosage was increased to 150mg XL and then 225mg XL. The last dosage increase was to 300mg XL (only took that for one day then reduced to 150mg XL).

 

At 225mg XL I was experiencing confusion (I seriously didn't know who I was for a few months), increased heart rate, tremors, excessive sweating, blurred vision, muscle spasm and muscle stiffness, diarrhea, and severe memory loss - I couldn't remember things I had said and done for a period of time. I also experienced rapid hair loss and irregular menstrual cycles. Those may be related to my age (I need to get my blood work done soon); I just turned 50 so I'm sure the menstrual changes are due to that. The hair loss happened in less than a month though, so I'm blaming that on the drug!  

 

Since reducing to 150mg +/- of the Venlafaxine, the majority of the side effects are better or gone. I am still experiencing some infrequent muscle spasm, consistent muscle stiffness in my neck and shoulders, and diarrhea (but I think that's from reducing the meds now). The muscle spasms usually happen when I'm working (sitting on the couch with my computer or meditating), the muscle stiffness is fairly constant but better than it was. The hair loss seems to have slowed or stopped and I'm seeing some new growth, although my hair is still WAY thinner than it was. 

 

Currently I am taking the Venlafaxine twice a day (down to 121.875mg). I take the 75mg XL in the morning and 46.875mg IR in the evening. I am on day 31 of a 105 day taper (following this taper schedule: http://www.clinical-depression.co.uk/anti-depressants-withdrawal/dosages/). So far, that taper has gone very well. The only issue was the Buproprian was too stimulating so I reduced that too.

 

So in addition to the Venlafaxine, I am taking 150mg XL Buproprian (in the morning with the Venlafaxine), and 25mg of Trazadone at night to sleep.

 

In addition, I am taking the following supplements:

 

- Vitamin powder with Greens (mid-day)

- Flaxseed Oil - 3,600mg Flaxseed Oil, that contains 2,160mg ALA (omega-3), 360mg Linoleic Acid (omega 6), and 420mg Oleic Acid (omega 9) (3 x's per day - total dosage is what's listed)

- Vitamin C - 1,000 more than what's in the vitamin powder (500mg 2 x's per day)

- Extra B-Vitamins, B-12 5,000mg (AM for both). I'm vegetarian so I take more B-12 than normal

- Biotin - 5,000mg (AM)

- Iron - 18mg (every other morning)

- Tulsi-Holy Basil - 900mg of a blend (AM)

- Natural Calm Magnesium and/or magnesium oil (bottoms of my feet) - one or both every night

 

 

[DoneWithThese]

Should I be worried about the "Major" drug interactions between the three meds I'm on? I took Buproprian and Trazadone for years (even though I shouldn't have according to the drug interaction website), but introducing the Venlafaxine has been horrible. Assuming I can keep the Buproprian at 150XL, do you think it's ok to continue the Venlafaxine taper? So far, I've felt good reducing that one ... thanks!

[Altostrata]

It does sound like 225mg venlafaxine XR was too much for you.

 

We need your symptom pattern to judge whether drug-drug interactions are serious:

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

What times of day do you take your drugs, and at what dosages? Do you have odd symptoms during the day, and if so, at what times?

 

Please stop tapering anything right now, until we get your symptom pattern sorted out.

 

Also see

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine)

 

Tips for tapering off Wellbutrin, SR, XR, XL (buproprion)

 

Tips for tapering off trazodone (Desyrel)

[DoneWithThese]

Ok, thanks so much. I've spent lots of time pouring over the Venlafaxine and Buproprion taper tips and have learned a ton so far. Today is the first time I looked at the Trazadone taper page. All I can say is WOW. My doctor told me that drug would be soooo easy to stop. It was only "to help me sleep and didn't even need to taper off of it" at all. All I had to do was "stop taking it" - I guess I shouldn't be that surprised based on all the other "advice" the dr's have given me so far.

 

I will stop the tapering for now and let my body catch up - thank you! 

[Altostrata]

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What times of day do you take your drugs, and at what dosages? Do you have odd symptoms during the day, and if so, at what times?

 

I still need to know this ^.

[DoneWithThese]

Currently I am taking the Venlafaxine twice a day (down to 121.875mg). I take the 75mg XR in the morning and 46.875mg IR in the evening. In addition to the Venlafaxine, I am taking 150mg XR Buproprian (AM with the Venlafaxine), and 25mg of Trazadone at night to sleep.

 

I am still experiencing some symptoms such as infrequent muscle spasms, consistent muscle stiffness in my neck and shoulders, and diarrhea (but I think that's from reducing the meds now). The muscle spasms usually happen when I'm working (sitting on the couch with my computer or meditating), the muscle stiffness is fairly constant but better than it was. 

[Altostrata]

If your symptoms follow a daily pattern, that can help us figure out if they are side effects of a drug or drug-drug interaction. Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages.

[DoneWithThese]

I will, thank you!