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peggy

Irregular heartbeats, palpitations, tachycardia, bradycardia

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Meimeiquest   
Meimeiquest

Well, this is what I've done, who knows if right or not. I had some times when my chest felt hollow and disturbing when I feared atrial fib. But once I cut out eggs, it has never happened again. If it had, I would have had a holter monitor. You can google the symptoms of atrial fib. If your heart becomes irregularly irregular, you need help. If you have bouts of both really low heart rate and high heart rate, I think you need checked out. Shortness of breath and chest pain are important symptoms. I believe the official normal range for a pulse is 60 to 100, except athletes who are lower. But if it is higher than your norm or "thudding" something is activating your fight or flight response, and of course understanding that is helpful. Just my opinion.

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Shelle   
Shelle

Peggy,

 

I have been feeling this for years, in fact the "flip flop" sensation brought on panic attacks. I found great relief when I started taking Magnesium supplements, I prefer taking it as a powder mixed in water or juice, it is sold and vitamin shops under the name of Natural Calm.

 

I am a skeptic and I will 100% vouch that this has worked for me. :D

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Meimeiquest   
Meimeiquest

You can also see the thread on taurine if you wish.

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trouper   
trouper

thank you for the in-depth info, meimei! i will keep my eye on it...

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Barbarannamated   
Barbarannamated

I'm experiencing problems w/ heart rate again. It was bradycardia before. Now it's Bradycatdia - tachycardia. Fluctuating from 30s to 100 within 2 minutes. Dizziness, weakness/overwhelming need to lie down, etc. I'm scheduled to see a cardio electro physiologist at end of January, but supposed to go to ER if worsens. Few hospitals have cardiac electro physiologists.

 

I'll keep you posted.

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Skyler   
Skyler

I'm experiencing problems w/ heart rate again. It was bradycardia before. Now it's Bradycatdia - tachycardia. Fluctuating from 30s to 100 within 2 minutes. Dizziness, weakness/overwhelming need to lie down, etc. I'm scheduled to see a cardio electro physiologist at end of January, but supposed to go to ER if worsens. Few hospitals have cardiac electro physiologists.

 

I'll keep you posted.

 

Uh Ohhhhh.  Hang in there Barb.

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Annie3   
Annie3

I am having alot of troubles with a racing or thumping heart. My sleep is stopping in the sense that I am tired but as soon as I drift my heart races and my back crawls. I will still be groggy and start drifting again and the heart surges even faster. I am exaughsted. My heart is still thumping. This usually only happens in trying to nap during the day.

Has this happened to others. It's happened in the past but not as strongly and I don't know how to lower my heart rate. I do not feel panicky. Deep breathing only minimally helps. I don't want to go to the hospital here as I am sure they would want to fill my mouth with benzos. Scared a beta blocker will make it worse. Any advice?

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Annie3   
Annie3

Thanks meimeiqiest, I have tried taurine in the past and was sensitive it reved me up, but that was a a full dose. I will look into it again at a lower dose. This mostly happens after I try to drift off to sleep and lasts a bit after.

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Meimeiquest   
Meimeiquest

GABA is another option. There are some reservations about using it during a benzo taper, as you are trying to heal your GABA receptors. I use it sparingly, and it hasn't seemed to be problematic or addicting, but I am less sensitive than some. I was on a beta-blocker, but it turned into a mess and took six months to taper, but others do well.

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Annie3   
Annie3

I was sensitive to GABA a few years ago but things may have changed. what did the beta blocker end up doing? I am freaking that I am going to need one if this keeps up but afraid I will not tolerate it.

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Meimeiquest   
Meimeiquest

It worked at first, then I got dizzy as bp dropped and just "off", reduced dose, went into WD. If you do have to take one, I think it is better to use one with as little blood brain barrier penetration as possible, like atenolol, I was on metoprolol which penetrates the brain more.

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Annie3   
Annie3

Can you use them as needed? I just wonder when I get like this if a beta locker would stop the surges of rapid heart and adrenaline? But I normally have low bp too. Feels like it's high now.

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Meimeiquest   
Meimeiquest

I think some people do that, but you would need to be very cautious. It's a bit like taking small doses of benzo-lite. Dr. Shipko in his book Xanax Withdrawal actually recommends taking a bit more benzo when withdrawal is really bad. It's just that Xanax is gone quickly, Klonopin not so much. Others use atenolol intermittently, hopefully some will chime in.

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Annie3   
Annie3

I have updosed before on the clonazepam and it has caused me problems down the road. :( I never thought a beta blocker would be like a light benzo. Thanks for this info :)

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Meimeiquest   
Meimeiquest

In the sense that it mitigates the stress response.

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Altostrata   
Altostrata

I found acupuncture to be very helpful to regulate blood pressure and heart rate.

 

I've also found theanine can be calming, during the day.

 

Many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements to be calming, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

I used to put magnesium citrate in cold water and sip it during rough patches.

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Annie3   
Annie3

I found acupuncture to be very helpful to regulate blood pressure and heart rate.

 

I've also found theanine can be calming, during the day.

 

Many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements to be calming, see

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

I used to put magnesium citrate in cold water and sip it during rough patches.

Thanks Alto,  I should try Acupuncture again except this time with a traditional Chinese medicine practitioner.  The last one I tried was a General Practioner and the only reason I went to her was because my husbands insurance covered every visit.  She would put the needles in where she figured best, strap some electrode device on and leave and then her nurse would take them out.  Every time I went I would be in a bad wave so I quit. (I was going to calm the nervous system, I think?)  That was awhile ago and I never said I would give acupuncture up only next time it would be with a traditional practitioner that had the time to really listen to me.  More expensive yes, but possibly worth it. 

 

A couple years ago I reacted to theanine, but I might try it again.  Recently the tiniest of fish oil revved me up.  Mag citrate I think revs me up to. Oddly this summer 5 months after finishing my SSRI taper and in the middle of my benzo taper I was feeling the best I had in years and I was able to drink Mag citrate at the full doses and it was helpful.  Then I foolishly messed on my benzo taper and it all caught up now I am sensitive again.  Still able to do the mag oil so on your suggestion I slowly restarted it yesterday and it seemed to help. (I had quit putting it on this week thinking it was causing problems too.  Hopefully this sensitivity will go down again with my hold and I can drink the mag citrate again because I really believed it helped this summer.  Today the heart rate is not bad, so that must have been a 4 day wave?  I have had it before in the fall, but this time was scary and I don't doubt it will be back in one of the next waves so I am going to try some of these ideas from everyone for next time. 

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Meimeiquest   
Meimeiquest

I think I know why I reacted to theanine, but It doesn't apply across the board. I don't know if I have always been like this, but my copper level is a little high. Copper is a co-factor in moving dopamine to norepinephrine, and I move dopamine too fast. Theanine mostly has a calming effect, but it increases dopamine a tad....which makes me extremely agitated. But hopefully it won't do that too you, it is great for most people.

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ten0275   
ten0275

annie3, hey.

 

i went through a very difficult withdrawal from benzodiazapines. i had an issue with my heart's bpm. i could rarely get my heart to drop below 100 bpm. prior to withdrawal, i had been a marathoner with a bpm that was slowwwwwww...

 

useful things i used:

 

**magnessium glycinate - this actually lowered my heart rate in fairly short order. i bought an at-home bloodpressure monitor w/ a pulse reader. i would sense when my heart rate was high and take it. within a half hour after taking the magnessium, the heart rate would drop signficantly - along with the blood pressure. there is a reason after all that magnessium is the first line of treatment they give to women in labor who develop late-stage preclampsia.

 

**Hawthorne Extract - this helped my blood pressure a lot during withdrawal, and lowered my pulse some. I had no issues taking this at all.

 

**GABA/Theanine mix - even while withdrawing from a benzo and wanting to be ever-so-careful about my GABA receptors, I took the chance. I can't get behind it the way I get behind magnessium glycinate, but I will say that at times, this supplement gave me relief. There is some question as to whether GABA, taken in supplement form, crosses the blood/brain barrier. Apparently theanine helps this process (theory! they haven't proven this conclusively). The reason that we sufferers of benzo withdrawal won't incur further damage from a GABA supplement is because it isn't the GABA that is the problem, it is the down-regulated receptors. You can throw as much GABA at the receptors as you want. It just won't "take" so long as the receptors are damaged. The receptors were damaged in the first place not by an over-abundance of GABA, but rather the over-sensitization and following down-regulation of the receptors by the drug. Oh man, I am putting myself to sleep!

 

all that said, I found some relief from the GABA/Theanine mix - but if your system can handle the magnessium glycinate, it truly is a marvelous substance.

 

hang in there.

 

dave

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Annie3   
Annie3

I think I know why I reacted to theanine, but It doesn't apply across the board. I don't know if I have always been like this, but my copper level is a little high. Copper is a co-factor in moving dopamine to norepinephrine, and I move dopamine too fast. Theanine mostly has a calming effect, but it increases dopamine a tad....which makes me extremely agitated. But hopefully it won't do that too you, it is great for most people.

Interesting,  alot of things make me agitated too. I will look up on the copper connection.

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Annie3   
Annie3

Thanks Dave, do you know what the differences between how Mag Glycinate and the others Mags work? I have heard a lot of people using the Mag Glycinate.  Just curious.   

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ten0275   
ten0275

Annie3, hey.

 

I don't think it is necessarily a matter of them working differently, so much as it has to do w/ absorption and tolerability - particularly in the gut. Mag Glycinate seems to be well-tolerated by most who use it. And further, it makes sense that something that is more stable and tolerable as it is broken down in the digestive tract and is better absorbed, is going to be more affective - since more of the magnessium will actually be utilized by the body versus being excreted as waste. I hope that makes sense.

 

Hang in there.

 

Dave

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Cressida   
Cressida

Can you use them as needed? I just wonder when I get like this if a beta locker would stop the surges of rapid heart and adrenaline? But I normally have low bp too. Feels like it's high now.

I took 10mg propanolol as needed for that very reason and they worked a treat at first. Then as I took them for a bit I noticed I got very nasty rebound effects when I didn't take one. Worse than the original problem with sky high anxiety. Had a very bad week when I stopped

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Cressida   
Cressida

Can you use them as needed? I just wonder when I get like this if a beta locker would stop the surges of rapid heart and adrenaline? But I normally have low bp too. Feels like it's high now.

I took 10mg propanolol as needed for that very reason and they worked a treat at first. Then as I took them for a bit I noticed I got very nasty rebound effects when I didn't take one. Worse than the original problem with sky high anxiety. Had a very bad week when I stopped

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bananas   
bananas

I have been having irregular heart beat issues again for the 2nd time.  When this happens, is it best to go back up a touch to try to relieve it?  I will be mentioning this to my doctor when I see her again soon, but for right now, I don't want to be suddenly falling over dead or something.

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bananas   
bananas

Thank you so much, Petunia, for the link.  I think I may try holding a little longer between drops this time and give my body a chance to catch up since this is the second time this has happened.  I noticed in the link you provided that magnesium was suggested.  I wanted to share that eating oatmeal, which has several things in it, has helped me in terms of feeling better at times.  I haven't tried it for the heart stuff, but I do have to say that I have felt much better otherwise at times when eating it.  I think maybe it would help some of us who have sensitivities to the supplements in pill forms to get those nutrients in a natural manner.  I eat the pre-packed instant brands (which I know isn't the best healthy option) and add in a fruit cup sized container of applesauce.  

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Katamari   
Katamari

Hi there bananas,

I sure know what those heart issues are! I had those palpation  things at work and sometimes they got me scared that something is going to happen soon, a heart attack or something... Secondly, I had this very strong heartbeat that kept me awake at nights. My dr prescribed me propranolol and it helped.  Unofortunately, I've stopped taking it, because I'm worried about the side effects, which can be making my condition worse. But I haven't got those symptoms for a long time now, because I've been off from work (summer holidays).

Oh and the heart issues started when I had been about 3 months off of venlafaxine.
Take care and remember,  it is not dangerous!

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Horns85   
Horns85

I have begun having heart palpitations after eating, eating anything really. Also, as soon as I lay down in bed. It's not so much that my heart is beating faster or slower, just feels like it's going to beat out of my chest. Very uncomfortable.

Could it be due to digestion?

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peggy   
peggy

i have another odd sensation that began about 2 months ago.  I only notice it in certain positions and at certain times. Most noticably in the morning when having a cup of tea in bed and reading.  I hear/feel a regular - every 5 secs or so 'cricket' type sound around where my heart is.  My husband can hear it if he puts his head on my chest.  I forgot to ask my GP about it when i was there a few weeks ago.  I don't have any other cardio vascular type symptoms - i was wondering if it was a murmur?

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Marmite   
Marmite

Hi,

Anyone who is having cardiac symptoms of any description may be interested in this research initiative: http://wp.rxisk.org/category/stories/

 

David Healy's rxisk.org website is starting a research forum into protracted withdrawal syndromes. Cardiac effects of various psych drugs are cited and the story entitled "Withdrawal Research Forum: Relief at Last?" on the weblink posted above is worth reading.

 

The story relates to Paxil, but my story on Lexapro/Escitalopram and information on Effexor/Venlafaxine is also relevant.

 

Obviously, protracted withdrawal isn't just about cardiac effects, but those of you who are experiencing disrupted heart beats / pulse, arrhythmia, palpitations etc please, please, please report them....even if they are temporary.

 

There is a reporting tool on the Rxisk website.

 

Please help.

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NoMeaning25   
NoMeaning25

I have this too...

I have begun having heart palpitations after eating, eating anything really. Also, as soon as I lay down in bed. It's not so much that my heart is beating faster or slower, just feels like it's going to beat out of my chest. Very uncomfortable.

Could it be due to digestion?

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lexhex   
lexhex

Heart problems and withdrawal go hand in hand. Withdrawal brings with it a range of symptoms that include overloads of adrenaline, which cause intermittent bouts of tachycardia. Sustained tachycardia causes myocardial ischemia which looks a LOT like a heart attack, causes PERMANENT changes to your EKG and the potential for ectopic beats originating either out of the atria, or the ventricles (PACs/PVCs). Some people also end up with A-Fib.

 

The cure: electrophysiology studies and radio frequency ablation OR anti-arrhythmia drugs -  the least harmful of which are beta blockers. Beta blockers are absolutely NOT Benzos LITE. Their mechanism of action is completely different from benzodiazepines. They act solely on the beta adrenal receptors of the heart and stop the heart from racing due to increases in adrenaline which cause rapid heart beats and PACS and PVCs. They can be taken as needed, or as a time released daily dose depending on your situation. I take a small 25mg dose of Toprol XL because I had sustained bouts of tach that caused ischemia. The ischemia in turn caused nearly constant PACs which I hope to eradicate at the end of this month when I go in for RAF because I literally cannot stand it any more.

 

Beta blockers cannot be stopped "cold turkey" because of the up regulation of beta receptors in the heart. (The racing heart returns because the receptors are once again exposed to adrenaline - once they are sensitive they are ALWAYS sensitive.) If your doctor says you can stop taking them, a slow taper is required. The best blockers are the ones that are water soluble and do NOT cross the blood brain barrier. For some people, alpha channel blockers or calcium blockers are more effective. It just depends on your body.

 

And YES - palpitations get worse with food (particularly carbs and sugar), perimenopause, stress, exercise, after a particularly LARGE meal, when you are dehydrated, when you haven't had enough potassium, etc. But mostly - when you haven't SLEPT. The less you sleep, the worse they get. And YES, they are a major cause of not sleeping. Because as soon as you lay down - BOOM - your heart starts banging around like bats in a bird cage.

 

So, YES, look into beta blockers. Some irritating side effects (nightmares, sleep disturbances, low blood pressure) but at low doses, all manageable and well worth the price of admission. AND look into Taurine. It is NOT stimulating. It's an amino acid. Found in abundance in food. 500-1000 mg a day. More if you can stand taking a zillion pills a day. There are articles posted somewhere on the site about it with plenty of legitimate links.

 

May the force be with you.

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downtongirl   
downtongirl

I am having heart flutters and a burning sensation in my chest...it comes and goes...I went to a naturopath this week and where I was taking 500 mg of an over the counter magnesium she switched me to 300 mg of magnesium glycerinate...she said it was more pure and much better absorbed....she said I could go up to 600 mg if needed....I know it is due to withdrawal but was wondering if it might also be due to the dosage reduction in my magnesium?  Also, I do notice after a meal the palpitations are worse...noticed someone else said that meals can cause palpitations...do you know why that is?

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Petunia   
Petunia

If magnesium was helping with the palpitations, you might want to spread your dosage through the day. Some people put it in their drinking water and sip it through the day. Read through the magnesium topic here:  Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker  for more information.

 

And see: Eating as an activating factor (increasing anxiety or symptoms)

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