Relearning How to Live OFF ADs

[elizabeth11]

Did you find that you needed to re-learn how to live life once off long term Ads?

 

There are many supposed "causes of depression" such as traumas, rumination tendencies, etc.

 

Without the buffers of ADs, to blunt those causes of depression, I feel that things are coming back to my thoughts that I had, while on ADs, been better able to push out of my mind. I'm stuck now in way to much self-reflection that is not helpful. My self-confidence (this is a big one!) seem serious on hold. Sleep is hard, so is eating.

 

I've joined emotions anonymous, a 12 step program. There is much to be said about 12 step programs. But to think I have to relearn how to live and process thoughts is really overwhelming at the moment.

 

(I'm three weeks out, so this may just be something else, but that is scary as s&*t.)

 

Thanks for listening!

[Gem]

Hi Elizabeth

 

Yes, I found this with some areas of life.

 

I found that I had to re-learn how to organise & tidy things up. I think my brain is also re-learning how to deal with emotions.

 

My brain is now far more creative than it was in early withdrawal, but I don’t know if this is because I had to re-learn it or because I wasn’t able to be creative early on due to feeling so horrendous.

 

Withdrawal can cause intrusive thoughts and can affect thought processes, it did with me. While there are sometimes things you can do to help it, it is something that heals naturally, so don’t be too hard on yourself if it doesn’t come straight away.

 

The amount of intrusive thoughts I get (I had loads in earlier withdrawal) has decreased massively. I am much more able to deal with thoughts that come into my head now than I was in earlier withdrawal.

 

Self-confidence does grow as you recover.

[Whatever]

I have written here before that during WD I felt emotionally like a teenager, overwhelmed, overreactive but it passed.

 

I think of it like this. AD's and pmeds turn off our ability to feel and process thoughts and feelings. It is like shutting off a water valve. Once that water valve is turned back on all sorts of rust and crude slowly comes spitting out. But eventually the water runs free and clear. And so will your thoughts and emotions.

 

I am not understanding what you hope to gain from a 12 step program. It is my understanding that 12 step programs in this case would see emotions as something that should be stopped, that causes you to harm yourself and you need the intervention of a higher power to remove this. To me this sounds just like psychiatry, which view emotions as "disorders" which only a doctor can fix. Well they aren't, they are part of the human condition and shapes us at the unique people we are. I personally do not believe the basic tenet of 12 step programs which tell people they have no free will or should take no responsibility for their thoughts and actions. But that is just my personal opinion. If it helps you great. But to my way of thinking it would just complicate your thinking, sorting and healing.

[hopefully]

Hey, I'm 7 weeks off cymbalta and I feel like I was almost destroyed. there was no negative thought that didn't take over my once-reliable mind. Monday i will be starting a 3 day a week therapy deal. I'm 53, and this **** has taken over my life, in only 2 months time. I hope to god therapy will work

[Nikki]

On AD's my emotions did not become numb. Have felt every single emotions and very deeply.

I am hypersensitive and it helped me function more. However, and there is always an However with this stuff....

 

After withdrawing a few times, my emotions became deeper, in terms of anxiety/depression. WD has exacerabated this for me. WD and AD's have left me with many,many instrusive thoughts as was mentioned by Gem and so glad to hear that the lifted.

 

I read many posts over the years about feeling raw after getting off ad's. It seems to be the norm.

 

I am in a 12 Step Program - Al-Anon. In Al-anon we learn to keep the focus on us where we can do the most good. It's been a life-saver for me. I would have to google this one to learn more about it. In Al-Anon,feeling & respecting your feelings is a big thing.

[Nikki]

http://www.emotionsanonymous.org/

[elizabeth11]

Hi Elizabeth

 

Yes, I found this with some areas of life.

 

I found that I had to re-learn how to organise & tidy things up. I think my brain is also re-learning how to deal with emotions.

 

My brain is now far more creative than it was in early withdrawal, but I don’t know if this is because I had to re-learn it or because I wasn’t able to be creative early on due to feeling so horrendous.

 

Withdrawal can cause intrusive thoughts and can affect thought processes, it did with me. While there are sometimes things you can do to help it, it is something that heals naturally, so don’t be too hard on yourself if it doesn’t come straight away.

 

The amount of intrusive thoughts I get (I had loads in earlier withdrawal) has decreased massively. I am much more able to deal with thoughts that come into my head now than I was in earlier withdrawal.

 

Self-confidence does grow as you recover.

 

Gem-

 

How long did it take for your self-confidence in particular take to come back? Where there any strategies that helped get it back? That renewed your knowledge that you were doing the right thing?

 

This also hits a real "nail on the head" for me. My confidence feels completely shot at the moment. I cannot believe or understand why what used to mean nothing to me...studying for an exam, getting a deliverable ready at work...seems so scary.

 

Part of me wants to run back to having help with life, i.e. something external to help, when I need to learn how to just live without the ADs. Don't know if it is bad habit, a jaded look backwards, or the fact that I frankly don't know yet what normal life is like without AD drugs. The relearning how to live part of this post.

 

The emotions of dealing with disappointments now seems off. I think it is true that our emotions are cut short at the time when we started the drugs. I guess the AD was numbing things before and now I need to relearn how to put them in perspective.

 

THANKS SO MUCH to everyone for sharing their experiences!! I (and I hope other readers) are very grateful. I'm a firm believer that we can learn so much from each other.

 

I'm off to emotions anonymous. At the moment, just being in a room with other people having challenges, the group experience of being in a room with others humans in a similar boat is, for me, cathartic.

[Barbarannamated]

Curious how anyone differentiates self confidence vs self esteem -

[Nikki]

Let's see....self confidence, right off the bat, to me means "I can do this task."

 

Self-Esteem, again, for me, is probably about self-love, self-respect.

 

During WD both of these left for long periods, the good news is that they do come back.

 

Elisabeth....give the EA a try and if you feel...trust your instincts and let us know how it goes.

 

Hugs to everyone

[Barbarannamated]

Let's see....self confidence, right off the bat, to me means "I can do this task."

 

Self-Esteem, again, for me, is probably about self-love, self-respect.

 

Good description - I think I've been self confident in past but lacked self esteem - both are absent now -

[EFXRob]

Interesting (and part of an on going) discussion about 12 step recovery programs.. Just need to share that AA was instrumental in me going off and staying off benzos 21 yrs ago...And was excellent in me gaining an understanding of addiction and addictive processes... (I remain abstinant from other substances except ADs) But I think at teh societal level...addiction is a slippery customer... just when ever one gets a grip of it..it morphs into some other insidious process: ":cunning, baffling and powerful"...as AA calls it..

 

In my country, there is a plethora of twelve step programs... all originating with AA...sort of the "original and best". I continue to go there (or rather have re committed myself), because its where the deepest reserves of wisdom and experience are..and there are plenty of people to talk to and relate to..

 

Although I am a long way from free of ADs...I cant help noticing the problems many people seem to have at 10 months off... This was the most critical time for me 21 years ago...and dealt with it at the time with the famous 4th and 5 th steps...which is a thorough, but not really damaging, full exploration of one's emotional defects and points the direction to ammends and restitution to any damaged parties.. and strangely enough, these are really freeing actions...that IMO, are more positive and dredging through ones psyche with therapy to uncover "why"...I tried that a fews years later... and found it counter productive.

 

But my question is... and I would really welcome people's opinions.. Despite the greater trickiness of say SSRI/NI addictions... are such processes as incorporated in AA recovery, likely to make a big difference to recovery this addiction...

[Nikki]

Hi Rob....

 

I have been in Al-Anon for 16 years. In answer to your question...I think WD supercedes everythng and anything. I use the readings, meetings, suggestion, prayers, and wisdom of others to help me rise above myself, my negative thinking and lots of other stuff, but when I mess with meds, or feel ill it is a huge struggle. I am struggling now.

 

Finished a crossover from Imipramine to Celexa and then got hit with discontinuation syndrome coupled with a very bad bout of diverticulitis. I believe the antibiotics affect me in a negative emotional way. However I am still using the tools of my 12 step program to aid me.

 

Hugs

[fefesmom]

I came back onto the website looking for help and this thread provides it. How lucky for me. Anyhow, I went off Effexor XR 6 months ago (10/6/2011) after being on it for over ten years. I got over the physical WD pretty easily. My emotions however have come back with a vengeance. I thought I'd be fine by now. Not yet. I used to feel I didn't belong anywhere, with anyone, felt alone, got angry internally when people gave others attention. These are here again. I have been sorely tempted to go back on some kind of AD but don't want to either although I cannot give a good reason other than they numbed me out so much. I don't want to take St. John's Wort, which someone suggested, either. I think I want to work it out myself. But then I think of people who say depression is a disease and wouldn't you take insulin if you had diabetes. Well, I think/hope I would change my diet/lifestyle if I had diabetes so I could get off the meds. I have a therapist at my *** whom I like a lot but see only once a month or so. I called at CBT place but haven't heard back from them. I find meditation not helpful now; my mind just goes nuts while I sit. Walking in the a.m. and being mindful throughout the day work best. SO, what I am asking is do you people believe it is okay to tough it out; from this thread it sounds like the old feelings, thoughts come back after WD and you can get through it. I cannot believe this but I will be 70 in two weeks and I would dearly love to live the rest of my life as myself - maybe I will always feel I don't belong, be lonely etc. and when it is from time to time I can handle it. Any thoughts, ideas, experiences I will deeply appreciate from all/any of you.

[Whatever]

Just to be clear I am not condeming 12 steps programs. I am making a distinction. 12 step programs are desinged for addiction. What I believe Nikki and others are going through on this forum is not addiction it is neuro-emotion. I say this because I went throught it myself.

 

Also, not only did I go through it during WD, I had an overactive, oversensitive mind full of anxiety BEFORE I went on ADs - that is how I got on ADs in the first place. Why was I like that? Because I grew up in a family that caused me a lot of pain, caused me to doubt myself. While I went through WD's and claiming my life back I realized that I was giving my father and selfish brother a lot of power over my emotional well being. And I said NO MORE. The blame belonged with them not me, and allowing myself to be angry about it, made all the insecurity and all the nights laying in bed at 3 AM with an unquiet mind - go POOF in the wind. I was not powerless INDEEED.

 

Not only that, I had PTSD after I got off AD's and my life had been a deeply tragic mess.

 

So here is my point: NEURO-EMOTION is not addiction. It is like saying that the insommina that is created from taking AD's could be helped by "Insommniac Anymous". Although, you have no insommnia when you are on ADs. Although I am sure that it works wonderfully if you abuse drinks or drugs or food.

 

No list of moral wrongs, and apologizing to people you hurt, or telling yourself that you have no will power and someome has to come in and help you is going to stop insommnia nor neuro-emotion nor any DRUG INDUCTED SYMPTOM.

 

I realize that I have a tendency when I write to sound very harsh, but that is just from years of writing thesis argument dense papers in history and philosophy.

 

Anyway it ook me years to fight my demons. Yes, you could say I did a moral inventory, but always with the intention that power resided in me and I was the only one who could claim it. But I am happy calm person today.

[Nikki]

Whatever you do not sound harsh at all.

 

I have an addiction to Chocolate but not drugs, alcohol, sex or gambling. I have also engaged in Retail Therapy (somewhat of an addiction).

 

According to my daughter and I have heard others say this....we are addicted to AD's and that is why we have WD. I used to feel terrible when I read that. And then years back, I don't remember where, I read that AD's are not addictive, it is a neurological trauma - not drug addiction WD that causes all the suffering.

 

I really don't know what it is. I have never craved Paxil, Lexapro or Imipramine. When I did have to go back up in dose to stabilize, it helped. I crave Chocolate, but I have never craved any of these meds.

 

My involvement in a 12 Step Program was due to my former spouse being alcoholic. I saw people there who had what I wanted.....peace in their lives, so I stayed and never plan on graduating.

 

I agree with you that there isn't a program, pill, counselor, potion etc. that anyone has come across yet to stop SSRI WD. If there was, we would all be lined up. I just look for ways to ease the pain. I too have experienced the PTSD thingy from the WD process.

 

Hugs

[Barbarannamated]

Whatever ~

Your beliefs resonate with me consistently and you aren't at all harsh in your wording - you state your position and reasoning very matter-of-factly without judgment that I've noticed -

 

I do have problems with suggestions of giving away my power although I would like to completely surrender this stubborn thought that I havhe control of certain circumstances (people) in my life - I'd very much like to find the healthy place between giving over control and giving away power - both feel like an illusion right now -

I've had several negative experiences with churches and Buddhist meditation who all seemed to encourage me to be peaceful and not 'fight' which is what got me here in the first place IMHO -

[elizabeth11]

I came back onto the website looking for help and this thread provides it. How lucky for me. Anyhow, I went off Effexor XR 6 months ago (10/6/2011) after being on it for over ten years.

 

-->My emotions however have come back with a vengeance. I thought I'd be fine by now. Not yet. I used to feel I didn't belong anywhere, with anyone, felt alone, got angry internally when people gave others attention. These are here again. I have been sorely tempted to go back on some kind of AD but don't want to either although I cannot give a good reason other than they numbed me out so much. I don't want to take St. John's Wort, which someone suggested, either. I think I want to work it out myself. But then I think of people who say depression is a disease and wouldn't you take insulin if you had diabetes. Well, I think/hope I would change my diet/lifestyle if I had diabetes so I could get off the meds. I have a therapist at my *** whom I like a lot but see only once a month or so. I called at CBT place but haven't heard back from them. I find meditation not helpful now; my mind just goes nuts while I sit. Walking in the a.m. and being mindful throughout the day work best.

 

--->SO, what I am asking is do you people believe it is okay to tough it out; from this thread it sounds like the old feelings, thoughts come back after WD and you can get through it. I cannot believe this but I will be 70 in two weeks and I would dearly love to live the rest of my life as myself - maybe I will always feel I don't belong, be lonely etc. and when it is from time to time I can handle it. Any thoughts, ideas, experiences I will deeply appreciate from all/any of you.

 

Fefesmom

 

You state it exactly as I feel it. And I am 40, and like you would like to live the rest of my life without ADs.

 

But (I added the arrows) I think that I am now, 23 days out, grappling with these same issues...what caused me problems in the past I think is coming back with a vengance. I remember that I grew up with certain negative feelings towards family members, habits of ruminations,... They are back staring me in the face.

 

And I am trying so, so, so hard to tough it out. It does turn out that my thyroid is way out of whack, but I don't think it explains all of the anxiety I am going through.

 

I too would greatly appreciate hearing the experiences of others.

 

And to whatever...I understand your feelings about 12 step programs and your feeling about the having in make amends...that this part of things is not 100% relevant to what we are dealing with. I admire your story, resolve, and how you have turned your life into something wonderful!

 

We are trying to get our lives back, some point of feeling "normal" back, some point of feeling like we can deal with what life sends our way back. And this can be tough (really tough to me at the moment but I hope to be better soon)

 

Thanks for listening.

[Gem]

Hi Elizabeth,

 

Going with Nikki’s definitions of confidence & self esteem - overall my confidence has been improving as I have been recovering. I think it is still improving as I ‘m not fully recovered yet. My self esteem faltered a bit in the early period of withdrawal, but not too badly. I did loads of work on self esteem when I was younger and I think this helped.

 

I think I also realised that it was withdrawal affecting me and causing all the horrible feelings and symptoms so I didn’t feel bad about myself and still had a lot of faith in myself but at the same time, in the early stages, I didn’t feel really confident either. It’s really hard to explain! I hope I am making sense. I think it would be hard for anyone to feel confident when experiencing these sorts of symptoms. I think moving through withdrawal and continuing to heal helped. It is hard to pinpoint exactly when as it was a bit up and down and is an ongoing process.

 

I worked part-time and although this isn’t right for everyone in withdrawal, I think it helped me a lot – to see I could still work even though I was in hell. This gave me some confidence. I think the fact I was getting through withdrawal and fighting it gave me a lot of faith in myself. I tried to encourage myself and tell myself how well I was doing. I reminded myself it was not my fault. I also saw a therapist (who I still see occasionally). I talked a (quite a lot!) about how I felt and also needed quite a lot of reassurance at times.

 

The fact I felt so bad and that the symptoms were like nothing on this earth I had ever experienced, helped me to know I was doing the right thing ( even though I questioned it at times as I got pretty desperate with it all). I could see how much damage the drugs had done to me and how bad they were for me.

 

Starting to feel like myself again also helped to spur me on to continue fighting.

 

I think withdrawal often takes emotions and massively amplifies them. A lot of things seem very scary. The nervous system is so sensitive and I think we are very vulnerable to things in withdrawal. The brain is trying to get used to not having the drug there and also to cope with the changes the drug has created. So a lot is going on! My emotions were certainly very big. I think I still have a little way to go with this. But it does get so much better. I cannot believe how much my brain has recovered and healed from those early days.

[Nikki]

Fefesmom...

 

Do you think a daily round of physical exercise may help. I find it to be mentally settling.

Although you passed the physical symptoms of WD...the emotional/mental stuff can hold us hostge for a good time.

 

A friend of mine is working on 'childhood issues' and so much is coming up, she is going to a batting cage once a week. When she hits the ball she tries to release the feelings.

 

Here I am telling you - I should be doing it!

 

What I got from your post is that you really do want to tough it out and not resort to meds.

Use this site to vent. Talking about it can but the anguish in half sometimes.

 

Geting off Efexor is monumental and you did it....Give yourself a daily pat on the back

 

Barbara...I am seeing in myself that when I don't speak up, especially if I feel I have been hurt or a boundary has been violated, I am giving my power away. If I am afraid of someone and tip-toe around them, I am giving my power away.

 

When I am assertive, I take my power back. I don't do this perfectly, but this is how I have come to understand it.

 

I a alot better in relinquishing control where I have none. People, places and things, mostly people. I don't want to engage in control. It is exhausting. When I step aside things work out. I am learning to catch myself engaging in control and letting him/her go.

 

Again I am not always willing to do this, and I have to be aware of it. When I get a nagging feeling in the pit of my stomach, or I am obsessing over someone....I am controlling thru clairvoyancy....crazy making. No one makes me crazier than me....except for my ex-spouse.

[fefesmom]

At almost six months off effexor xr after over ten years on, I don't know if I am worse or not. When first went on them my mother had died and I was crying a lot. Then I started the meds and the crying stopped and I did feel better but over time I felt really numb. Now I am crying a lot and although I want to avoid socializing, I usually don't. I go and "act" okay but feel so relieved to get home. So how do you know when you are better? I wasn't so great when I started ads - can I really expect to feel better after a while off them? I get some relief and even comfort from crying. Sounds nuts? Thanks to all of you for being here. I had no idea this site was only a year old. LUcky for fall of us.

[Barbarannamated]

Fefe~

I've cried more in the last year than I did in 18 years on SS/NRIs - I don't know if I ever cried in that time aside from when we had to put our dogs down (separate times) - I have alot of tears in storage that come out at odd times and it does feel cathartic -

[fefesmom]

Hi. Thanks Barb. I just found a gorgeous poem called Kindness by Naomi Shihab Nye. It makes me sob in a good way. You can find it at elise.com/quotes/poetry/naomi.htm. I do think all the sadness that my mother's death brought up to the surface was cut off by the ads for all the years I was taking them.

[Barbarannamated]

It's very strange how the emotions slide away but come back in spurts - I've had moments of anger that really startled me b/c I never had a temper or bottled it up well - I've also noticed a new - and sometimes odd - sense of humor returning