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wantrelief

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bubble

Hello wantrelief,

 

I've read through your thread and these are some of my observations. First of all, I really really and strongly believe that it's not a particular dose that helps but stability over time. Searching for the right dose is calling for trouble because it introduces changes to which the CNS has to constantly adapt. This causes destabilisaton that is symptoms. I think I will post my favourite post by Rhi which is a foundation of my "creed" in the healing power of holds.

 

How long we will have to wait depends on how much we have destabilized our CNS: how long we were on drugs, how many of them we changed, how many withdrawals...So every history is individual. Your history has quite a few of these changes so it's not surprising that it's taking time to stabilize. We all have a kind of grace period when our brain can deal with stopping and changing drugs and its dosages. But gradually that ability gets reduced.

 

 I believe that everyone can get off and/or reduce the dose if we go slow enough. Sometimes it means that we have to go a way slower that 10 % and hold longer than 30 days. The key is to forget about the calendar and listen to your brain only which is speaking through symptoms. Even if you wrote down the steps through which you came down from 27 mg of Citalopram to 12.6 (if I understand it right it happened between August 2013 and November 2016) although it is slow, it was still too fast for your brain to adapt. Probably you were destabilized from previous changes.

 

By reading through your posts I noticed that it would always be some stressful event that would bring you down. The same is for me. Drugs are not my only problem. I have to learn how to change my patterns of interacting with my environment so that I don't create stress for my brain.

 

Magnesium and fish oil are the only supplements we recommend here because they don't cause problems for people in states as ours. And magnesium works great for anxiety. For me anxiety is a kind of acute symptom while anhedonia is a sign of prolonged destabilization. Suicidal thoughts are scary :( but if you can function, even with difficulty, this is a very good sign.

 

Try to focus on other things rather than the dose. Explore the symptoms and self-care section. I'm a big fan of walks (even in cold weather) and I find psychotherapy very helpful. In this way your life won't come down to waiting and counting days.

 

here goes my favourite post. I haven't posted it for too long :)

 

Hope it gives you hope and reassurance!

 

Rhi on how drugs change our brains/regowing a new brain through tapering

 

A lot of people, including healthcare practitioners; in fact, I guess, most people-- are operating from entirely the wrong paradigm, or way of thinking, about these meds. They're thinking of them like aspirin--as something that has an effect when it's in your system, and then when it gets out of your system the effect goes away.

That's not what happens with medications that alter neurotransmitter function, we are learning.

What happens when you change the chemistry of the brain is, the brain adjusts its chemistry and structure to try to return to homeostasis, or biochemical and functional balance. It tries to restabilize the chemistry. 

For example: SSRI antidepressants work as "serotonin reuptake inhibitors." That is, they cause serotonin to remain in the space between neurons, rather than being taken back up into the cells to be re-used, like it would be in a normal healthy nondrugged brain.

So the brain, which wants to re-establish normal signaling and function, adapts to the higher level of serotonin between neurons (in the "synapse", the space between neurons where signals get passed along). It does this by removing serotonin receptors, so that the signal is reduced and changed to something closer to normal. It also decreases the amount of serotonin it produces overall. 

To do that, genes have to be turned on and off; new proteins have to be made; whole cascades of chemical reactions have to be changed, which means turning on and off OTHER genes; cells are destroyed, new cells are made; in other words, a complex physiologic remodeling takes place. This takes place over time. The brain does not grow and change rapidly. 

This is a vast oversimplification of the amount of adaptation that takes place in the brain when we change its normal chemistry, but that's the principle.

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay.

When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse.

SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. 

It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. 

I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long. 

With multiple drugs and a history of drug changes and cold turkeys, all of this becomes even more complicated. And if a person is started on these kinds of drugs at an early age before the brain has ever completely established normal mature functioning--well, it can't be good. (All of which is why I recommend an extremely slow taper particularly to anyone with a multiple drug history, a history of many years on meds, a history of past cold turkeys or frequent med changes, and a history of being put on drugs at a young age.)

This isn't intended to scare people, but hopefully to give you some idea of what's happening, and to help you respect and understand the process so you can work with it; ALSO, because you are likely to encounter many, many people who still believe these drugs work kind of like aspirin, or a glass of wine, and all you need to do is stop and get it out of your system. 

Now you can explain to them that no, getting it out of your system is not the issue; the issue is, you need to regrow or at least remodel your brain. This is a long, slow, very poorly understood process, and it needs to be respected. 

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bubble

This will explain things to you further: 

 

 

Rhi, just one question. Do many people find that a taper rate that was once optimal can become sub-optimal down the track? Just wondering if that's something people should be alert to?

 

For me, the optimal rate of taper has varied a lot, depending on my overall health, stress levels, sleep quality, and factors I haven't been able to necessarily figure out, hormones and stuff.  That's why I go slow and stay tuned in to my symptoms, so I can hold whenever things seem to be ramping up. I still screw it up from time to time but at worst I just get into a really bad wave and it passes if I hold long enough (like two months, this last time).

 

I think a lot of other people have found this too. Especially stress levels. 

 

Plus I think a lot of people find they have to slow down at the lower doses, as well (although that may be partly because 10% cuts are so small when the dose is small, it's easy to overshoot if you don't actually do the math).

 

 

this is all for the future. Now just hold, hold, hold. 

 

Then you might also check this: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4954-rhis-start-small-listen-to-your-body-taper-plan/#entry114714

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wantrelief

Thank you so very much for taking the time to read my thread and for your thoughtful response, Bubble.  You have given me some hope that I will stabilize.  I will continuing holding and work on having more faith in this process.  I really appreciate your help!

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Wildflower0214

Hey there... Just stopping by for support. I'm so sorry we are all so sick. :( thx for your kind message on my thread. :)

 

Thinking of you!

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LoveandLight

Sorry your struggling.

 

Thank you for stopping by my thread, it was really kind of you.

 

Best wishes.

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bubble

How are you doing?

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wantrelief

Joanna and JDM - thank you so much for your messages; it was nice to open my thread this morning and see you guys had posted.  :)

 

Bubble - thank you also for stopping by and checking-in on me.  I am feeling the same overall; I am still planning to hold at this dose to hopefully stabilize.  I am having a hard time - trying to keep going but functioning like this is really hard. 

 

Thanks for the support, everyone.....it is very much appreciated!

 

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bubble

As long as it's not getting any worse, it's a good sign. These things take time and it's really hard to see improvements from one day to the next. But they are happening nevertheless. 

 

As I said, what helps is focusing on however tiny pieces of tolerable functionality and not so much on the overall picture while gently nursing your CNS. 

 

Hang in there. 

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wantrelief

As long as it's not getting any worse, it's a good sign. These things take time and it's really hard to see improvements from one day to the next. But they are happening nevertheless. 

 

As I said, what helps is focusing on however tiny pieces of tolerable functionality and not so much on the overall picture while gently nursing your CNS. 

 

Hang in there. 

 

Thank you so much for your hopeful post.  It isn't getting any worse so I will take that as a good sign.  I also like your advice regarding focusing on what I am able to do rather than the overall picture as that can really overwhelm me.  Thank you again so much for your continued support - I so need it as I go through this time.  I hope you are doing well.

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Wildflower0214

Joanna and JDM - thank you so much for your messages; it was nice to open my thread this morning and see you guys had posted. :)

 

Bubble - thank you also for stopping by and checking-in on me. I am feeling the same overall; I am still planning to hold at this dose to hopefully stabilize. I am having a hard time - trying to keep going but functioning like this is really hard.

 

Thanks for the support, everyone.....it is very much appreciated!

You're welcome! :)

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Wildflower0214

Hey there! Hope you are hangin in there ok.

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wantrelief

Thanks for your message, JDM!  I am doing ok; I think I've had some parts of days that feel better but mostly just feeling the same.  Really hoping to stabilize and trying to be patient.  I hope you are feeling better today - it sounded like yesterday was a rough one for you.

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wantrelief

I feel like this post is going to sound repetitive from the last time I was here but I am once again in a bad place and am needing reassurance. From my last experience, I was able to stabilize at 16 mg (it took about 4-5 months) and did not start reducing again for quite awhile.  At some point, I decided to take a few months to drop to 15 mg and that seemed to go well.  The timing is a bit unclear as unfortunately I did not keep notes but I think I took at least 4 months to go from 16 to 15 mg, it might have been even longer.  In the middle of all of this, I took a new job which I had hoped would be a good change for me but it actually ended up being much more stressful than I had anticipated.  At the end of May, approximately 3 months after my drop to 15 mg, I started to feel intense withdrawal symptoms: anxiety, no appetite, insomnia, etc.  

 

This is the part where I have been embarrassed to post because of what I did next.  I panicked and increased my dose all the way to 20 mg and increased Klonopin from 1.25 to 1.5.  Instead of remembering the experience from last time and choosing a lower dose, I increased to 20.  I think I was thinking that my body just does not do well on the lower doses when it comes to stress.  I feel like ADs have totally reduced my capacity to deal with stress even if I am taking care of myself.  That was about 2.5 months ago.  I have not stabilized and am in a very bad place.  Basically I feel right back where I was with last "crash".  I am not sure what happened, if I am in tolerance to Celexa or hit a wave from the drop.  I know I should have waited and not panicked but here I am.  I don't want to change anything now so have been holding hoping to feeling better but am terrified of this not lifting as I am barely functioning.   

 

I am not sure what I am looking for with posting but felt the need to reach out to others who perhaps have been there.  I suppose I am also looking for reassurance that my brain will "come back on-line" as right now it feels like it is totally "off".  I am not sure what I"ll do if I can't stabilize and find myself worrying a lot about that.  I can't start tapering again when I am so unstable.  Please be gentle in your responses as I know you will see this pattern of updosing if you read my thread.  I am in a very fragile place.  I just wonder if I have done myself in for good with all of the drug changes (a switch and going up and down in doses) I've made in the last few years.  :(

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SquirrellyGirl

You won't be the first to make such mistakes and suffer for them, wantrelief.  All I can say is that at least now you really do "get it," and will know better for the future.

 

What has happened is that your nervous system has become very destablized - your brain has been bounced and it will take some time for the reverberations to settle out.  Even while on the drug, at this point, you will experience windows and waves, and as uncomfortable as it may be, you will need to sit tight and not be reactive with more med changes when it is icky.  Now, more than ever, is the time to practice self care to get through those times.  Have you been able to find any tools that help you?  Are you taking the fish oil and magnesium?  Mindfulness, Acknowledge-Accept-Float, etc?

 

Acceptance and Mindfulness

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

It may take some time, but you will settle out again and this will be behind you :-)

 

SG

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wantrelief

Thank you so much for your response, SG - it is much appreciated as I feel so alone.  I think I was so surprised to feel a wave after months of stability. I wasn't really sure what was happening and now as you said my nervous system is destabilized.  I try to accept and practice mindfulness but find it very difficult when feeling so sick.  So you do think there is a good chance I will stabilize again?  I am just so worried I have permanently damaged my apparently very sensitive CNS with so many changes.  It is hard to imagine feeling well when feeling so poorly. I don't really experience any windows, just the same level of not feeling well.  :(

 

I hope you are doing well,

Michele

 

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SquirrellyGirl

Your system will heal again, Michele - just hang in there.  I read this thread today and so it seems fitting for you:

 

Six Mistakes I've Made in Withdrawal

 

SG

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wantrelief

Your system will heal again, Michele - just hang in there. I read this thread today and so it seems fitting for you:

 

Six Mistakes I've Made in Withdrawal

 

SG

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wantrelief

Thank you for your reassuring message; it helps to hear. I will read the link. I probably have made more than 6 mistakes myself! :)

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wantrelief

For the last few nights, my sleep has gotten worse. It wasn't great to begin with as I was waking up consistently at 4 or 4:30 no matter what time I would go to bed. The last few nights, I've been waking up at 3 or 3:30. A couple of times I was able to do some meditative breathing and go back to sleep but others it wouldn't work and I am wide awake (like now). I am not sure what to make of this as the previous times I've updosed my sleep was bad but consistently bad. Is this a sign that this isn't working?

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tntd

Hi Wantrelief,

 

Thanks for stopping by my thread and giving me some much needed encouragement. I'm sorry to hear that you are having such a rough time of it again. Fear can make us do things we regret but I think we need to forgive ourselves because this fear we are experiencing is so extreme. Be gentle with yourself, treat yourself like you would a good friend who needs your help, with lots of compassion and love. 

 

I have problems waking early as well. Recently I started going to bed with a glass of water with magnesium in it. I drink some of it when I wake up and it seems to help. I have been able to doze off and on for a couple of more hours at least. I wear a fit bit that tracks my sleep and it shows a lot of restlessness but I'm not actually awake for it. I don't know if it would help you or not but I thought I'd throw it out there. 

 

Hugs

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wantrelief

Thank you so much for your supportive post, tntd!  You describe the fear so well - it really is so extreme.  Just the smallest thing makes me feel ill with anxiousness, something I would never have even thought twice about before.  So awful.  

 

I am sorry to hear you have had problems with waking up early too.  :(  It is really draining, especially when you aren't feeling well to begin with. Thank you for the suggestion regarding the magnesium.  I have been hesitant to try magnesium as my stomach is prone to diarrhea (gross, sorry) when I am anxious but lately that is the one thing that has seemed to settle so maybe I should give it a whirl.  I have read about the spray as well and might start with that.  I am so glad it has helped you get a couple more hours of sleep.

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wantrelief

I am wondering about tapering if I am in tolerance?   If I don't stabilize at a higher dose of Celexa it seems like the only option is to switch to another AD or start tapering.  Switching could make this situation even worse.  I did one successful switch - still having to endure withdrawal - but am not sure I want to gamble on that again as I've read so many stories about this not working out well.

 

But at the same time I don't how I start tapering when I am feeling so very ill?  Wouldn't symptoms get worse when you start dropping?  I am wondering if anyone has been in this situation and what their experience was like?  

 

This has been one of the reasons why I kept trying all of these years to get off of ADs - because I was worried that I would become tolerant to the medication and then have no control over a taper.  And this might now be my situation.  :(

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Susanne

Hi Iwantrelief,

I saw your question in the thread about tolerance/poop-out.

I'm tapering Lexapro, after what seemed like it suddenly had stopped helping me with my intrusive thoughts. They completely vanished after after a few months on using Lexapro and stayed away for 6 years.
When they suddenly came back last May I increased my dose from 5 mg to 15 mg but after four weeks nothing had changed.
I figured this wasn't going anywhere and then I began reading on the internet about SSRI tolerance.

Then something hit me: I must have been in tolerance for a while already because in the 6 months before the relapse I began to dread my work, I had weird body sensations like eye floaters , tingling and prickling between my shoulder blades, I was having mood swings or I could react really emotional to small problems. All this time I wasn't having any intrusions, so I thought my bad moods were from not making enough money from my work as a freelancer. I was having trouble paying bills and my relationship was getting unstable.
So all this things going on might have to do with tolerance...

Increasing again made me very unstable. Severe mood swings. 
But dropping down was even worse. I just wanted to get it out of my system! It wasn't doing the one postive thing I initially took it for so why staying on it? I got back from 15mg to 5 mg in two weeks. Of course way too fast! I had suicidal thoughts, crying spells and the intrusion bothered me so much...
Fortunately I stabilized on the 5 mg and was on this for about 6 weeks. My appetite and sleep improved and especially my mood got a lot better. I listened to people who warned me about tapering too fast.

3,5 weeks ago I lowered to 2,5 mg a day. First two weeks: mild head aches and some dizziness. In the end of the second week the tinnitus started. It is mild in comparison to others and not bothering me so much. Haven't had any sleeping problems (except for last night...). It is already fading.
Since two days I'm having a new intrusive thought, really weird and scary. I wasn't expecting this, because my intrusion has been always the same. The new one blocks the old one, so I'm not sure if it's a pure symptom from withdrawal or if my brain is just used to the mechanism and 'likes' having something to repeat.

Okay I hope my experience helped a bit. In my case some things got worse (I didn't know much about how to taper). I just think its not use for me to switch nor to keep taking it. I feel bad from the Pure O and I don;t want Lexapro messing with my body anymore. 

If you would go for the tapering, why not start really slow, like a micro-taper?




 

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wantrelief

Hi Iwantrelief,

 

I saw your question in the thread about tolerance/poop-out.

 

I'm tapering Lexapro, after what seemed like it suddenly had stopped helping me with my intrusive thoughts. They completely vanished after after a few months on using Lexapro and stayed away for 6 years.

When they suddenly came back last May I increased my dose from 5 mg to 15 mg but after four weeks nothing had changed.

I figured this wasn't going anywhere and then I began reading on the internet about SSRI tolerance.

 

Then something hit me: I must have been in tolerance for a while already because in the 6 months before the relapse I began to dread my work, I had weird body sensations like eye floaters , tingling and prickling between my shoulder blades, I was having mood swings or I could react really emotional to small problems. All this time I wasn't having any intrusions, so I thought my bad moods were from not making enough money from my work as a freelancer. I was having trouble paying bills and my relationship was getting unstable.

So all this things going on might have to do with tolerance...

 

Increasing again made me very unstable. Severe mood swings. 

But dropping down was even worse. I just wanted to get it out of my system! It wasn't doing the one postive thing I initially took it for so why staying on it? I got back from 15mg to 5 mg in two weeks. Of course way too fast! I had suicidal thoughts, crying spells and the intrusion bothered me so much...

Fortunately I stabilized on the 5 mg and was on this for about 6 weeks. My appetite and sleep improved and especially my mood got a lot better. I listened to people who warned me about tapering too fast.

 

3,5 weeks ago I lowered to 2,5 mg a day. First two weeks: mild head aches and some dizziness. In the end of the second week the tinnitus started. It is mild in comparison to others and not bothering me so much. Haven't had any sleeping problems (except for last night...). It is already fading.

Since two days I'm having a new intrusive thought, really weird and scary. I wasn't expecting this, because my intrusion has been always the same. The new one blocks the old one, so I'm not sure if it's a pure symptom from withdrawal or if my brain is just used to the mechanism and 'likes' having something to repeat.

 

Okay I hope my experience helped a bit. In my case some things got worse (I didn't know much about how to taper). I just think its not use for me to switch nor to keep taking it. I feel bad from the Pure O and I don;t want Lexapro messing with my body anymore. 

If you would go for the tapering, why not start really slow, like a micro-taper?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Susanne,

 

Thank you for sharing your experience with me.  I am so glad you were able to stabilize when you went quickly from 15 mg to 5 mg.  I think you mentioned that it took 6 weeks to stabilize from that cut?  I hope you are able to stabilize soon on 2.5 mg and am sorry to hear you are having a new intrusive thought to deal with - I wonder if it is from withdrawal since you have never experienced it before. 

 

I totally relate to your not wanting to switch and not wanting to be on the drug.  I feel the same way.  I just am not stable at all right now so I think even a micro cut would be a bad idea right now.  I already feel so badly I suspect going down is going to make me feel even worse which is pretty unimaginable given how I am currently feeling.  But I may not have a choice if I don't stabilize.  I am trying to hold on and see if my brain adapts to the big increase I made.  Just not sure how long to wait.....

 

Keep me posted on how you do with your taper.  

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wantrelief

So earlier this week I posted that all of a sudden my sleep had gone from bad to worse.  I just realized that the brand of Klonopin that I am on changed from one generic to another.  I think I may be having a reaction to the new generic.  I am having trouble falling asleep which never happened before and am waking up frequently - sometimes I am able to go back to sleep but sometimes not.  This is different from the pattern that had been happening since my recent crash (and the last one) which would be falling asleep fine but waking up between 4-4:30 no matter what time I go to sleep.

 

I called all of the pharmacies I could find to see if anyone had the generic I was on before but no one has it.  Has anyone had this problem and eventually adjusted to the new generic?  Not sure what to do if this is the problem.  Of course it might just be that a) I am also in tolerance to Klonopin or B) this is a new manifestation of withdrawal for me.  Just seems like the timing is pretty coincidental though.  This new type of insomnia is making it even more difficult to cope with the symptoms I am experiencing.  I am feeling very sad about being on these medications and the hole I've made for myself.  I am feeling very stuck and hopeless about the future.

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ChessieCat

Hi wantrelief,

 

It may just be coincidental.  If you have, or can get, the previous type you could try going back to that to see if it does make a difference.

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wantrelief

Thanks for your response, CC (I love cats!).  Unfortunately I tried to get the previous type but no pharmacies carry it.  I am hoping if it is a reaction my body will adjust.  Or, as you said, it is just coincidental as I am certainly going through a challenging time.

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ChessieCat

If you have other stuff going on at the moment then it most probably isn't due to the change of generic drug.  However, the change in generic drug might be contributing to it in a small way.  The best thing to do is take notice but not worry about it.  The generic drug change "is what it is" and you can't do anything about it.

 

I did notice in the Generic vs Brand that someone made a comment that the drug amount may amount may vary.  So, through no fault of your own, you may have done a small taper/increase if the amount of the two generic drugs different slightly.

 

I suggest you will need to listen to your body and make sure you are stable for a while before reducing again.  Don't try and rush it.  It just isn't worth it.

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wantrelief

Thanks so much for your post, CC.  Last night was back to my usual pattern of insomnia so I think you are right.  

 

Re. reducing, I can't taper at the moment as I feel very ill.  I am just not sure what to do if I don't stabilize......and not sure how long to wait.  I know in the past it has taken me 4-5 months so I am not going to do anything before that time but at what point does one realize they are not stabilizing?  I suppose there is no answer to this question but is one that I am wondering about.

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ChessieCat

"I suppose there is no answer to this question but is one that I am wondering about."

 

Wondering about can = worrying about.

 

I believe that worrying about something causes stress and the stress diverts the brain's attention.  When that happens it has the brain working on something else when it could be working on adapting and stabilising.  Also, just because you experienced a particular thing or pattern in the past doesn't mean that it will happen the same way in the future.

  1. Acceptance
  2. Acceptance and Mindfulness (this was posted above)
  3. Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System
  4. "Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms
  5. Change cognitive framing - Redirect - Another Way
  6. Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) for anxiety, depression
  7. Cognitive Behavior Therapy lessons

And:

  1. Sleep Hypnosis, Guided Meditations, Calming Videos
  2. Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

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wantrelief

I just got more specific information about my situation. It turns out that I took 8 months to taper from 16 mg to 15 mg and landed on 15 mg in March.  Then started to feel very bad withdrawal symptoms at the end of May - probably related to stress.  I was on 18 mg for a little while and think I started to feel a little better but for some reason continued to increase the dose to 20 mg.  I don't think I have been on 20 mg for at least 2 years since I have been tapering steadily for the last few years.  I am getting worried that I screwed this up.  Now that I've been back on 20 mg for at least two months I feel like I need to hold at this dose as I don't want to further disrupt any changes that may be occurring (although it feels like nothing is changing).  I am once again reaching out for reassurance that I can still stabilize on this dose?  I am feeling so very ill, stuck and lost.  

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bubble

Hello wantrelief,

 

as I wrote earlier, in situations like yours we can always stabilise. The level of disruption we caused will influence the time it takes for this to happen.

 

Can you tell us a bit more about the kind of symptoms you have in relation to when you take your drugs?

 

It seems that you have focused almost entirely on Citalopram in looking for explanation for your symptoms and somehow disregarded Klonopin. Klonopin might be playing a lot bigger role in this than you think. Therefore I would encourage you to start a  thread in our benzo subsection where we have a great benzo expert who will look into your Klonopin situation.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/29-members-only-benzo-forum/

Don't worry. Our brains have a remarkable ability to heal and what you did is not anything too radical. We will sort it out.

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scallywag

wantrelief -- you can stabilize on almost ANY dose below the maximum for a drug. The most important factor in doing that is TIME.

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wantrelief

Hello wantrelief,

 

as I wrote earlier, in situations like yours we can always stabilise. The level of disruption we caused will influence the time it takes for this to happen.

 

Can you tell us a bit more about the kind of symptoms you have in relation to when you take your drugs?

 

It seems that you have focused almost entirely on Citalopram in looking for explanation for your symptoms and somehow disregarded Klonopin. Klonopin might be playing a lot bigger role in this than you think. Therefore I would encourage you to start a  thread in our benzo subsection where we have a great benzo expert who will look into your Klonopin situation.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/29-members-only-benzo-forum/

Don't worry. Our brains have a remarkable ability to heal and what you did is not anything too radical. We will sort it out.

 

 

Hi Bubble,

 

Thank you very much for your insights.  I am working on fear as I seem to fear that this will be the one time I won't stabilize even though I've experienced it before.

 

I will start a thread in the benzo section.  I have wondered about Klonopin but my gut instinct is telling me it is the AD.  I think Klonopin has lost some of its effectiveness and I am feeling more anxiety than I have in the past with updosing but I think it is also helping keep things not quite as bad as they could be (like I am getting some sleep, although not enough).

I take both the Klonopin and Celexa at night around 9:00.  I will usually fall asleep pretty easily but then wake up around 4/4:30 am, sometimes earlier.  The symptoms are present at varying levels throughout the day: loss of appetite (I am forcing myself to eat), anxiety and depression (manifesting as suicidal thoughts).  When I am at home, it is extremely difficult for me to want to do anything. Thinking about doing something, however small, causes a lot of anxiety.  These symptoms will usually somewhat dissipate later in the evening, maybe around 8:00 or so.

 

I hope that is helpful information.

 

Thanks again for all of your help!!

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wantrelief

Thank you so much for your supportive words, SW.  I really appreciate hearing them.  I feel so ill right now it is difficult to imagine stabilizing and feeling well again.  

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tntd

Hi Wantrelief,

 

I just wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you. I have similar symptoms including "Thinking about doing something, however small, causes a lot of anxiety", and I know they are difficult to bear. I pretty much feel trapped in my house.

 

Are you able to get out and do things or do you work? Forgive me, I read your post before but my memory is not good right now so I apologize if you wrote this in your thread earlier.

 

I work with Wellness on the benzo forum, she is wonderful. Bubble actually pops in with good information and suggestions too.

 

Hugs and healing to you.

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