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wantrelief

Hello @brassmonkey and SA community,

 

The plan was for me to wait a few more weeks holding at 25 mg Celexa but I am really struggling.  I don't think holding here is doing anything at this point. This is all getting very wearing as I have barely been functioning for all of these months.

 

I did have a glimpse of feeling a little better in December and here is my question....I wonder if my brain was liking the increase and was starting to stabilize but it wasn't enough, that maybe going up to say 30 mg would help me gain some stability. I really can't fathom tapering being already so very unstable. If going up would help gain some stability and I had to taper from a higher place then as disappointing as that would be, I would take it for feeling functional again.  It seems like it might be worth a try rather than switching medications.  I know SA is about going off of medications and that has always been my hope for myself but I am beginning to think that just might not be in the cards for me.  Slow tapering hasn't worked for me, even under stable conditions, so how would that work now?  I can't imagine spending even more time, perhaps years, just lying on my couch and having to force myself to do the simplest of tasks constantly thinking about suicide (I recognize these are just thoughts). I don't think I can go on much longer without trying something as this is just not sustainable.  I feel like a SA flunky. :(  

 

 

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brassmonkey

We've talked about this several time.  Back in September I said that you might be slipping into tolerance.  We also figured out that in the past it takes you many months to stabilize after a big change.  From past history you still have about a month and a half before you may show signs of stabilization.  Adding more medication while in tolerance may decrease the symptoms for a short time, but then things will be worse that ever and you will have further to taper.  The only way to get out of tolerance is to decrease your dosage a small amount at a time so your body can adjust and start to take back control from the drug.  It is not fun to go through and takes a long time to show results, but it is the only way out. 

 

So I will repeat my previous recommendation that you continue to hold for at least six more weeks to see if you stabilize.  After that start a very slow and controlled taper.  Have you started using the passive distraction techniques I mentioned?

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wantrelief
11 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

We've talked about this several time.  Back in September I said that you might be slipping into tolerance.  We also figured out that in the past it takes you many months to stabilize after a big change.  From past history you still have about a month and a half before you may show signs of stabilization.  Adding more medication while in tolerance may decrease the symptoms for a short time, but then things will be worse that ever and you will have further to taper.  The only way to get out of tolerance is to decrease your dosage a small amount at a time so your body can adjust and start to take back control from the drug.  It is not fun to go through and takes a long time to show results, but it is the only way out. 

 

So I will repeat my previous recommendation that you continue to hold for at least six more weeks to see if you stabilize.  After that start a very slow and controlled taper.  Have you started using the passive distraction techniques I mentioned?

Thank you for writing me back, Brass.  I am sorry for the repetitiveness of my questions and concerns.  I am just really scared at the moment and finding it hard to hang in there feeling like this.     

 

I did try the passive distraction technique!  I found it hard to relax into, my thoughts are just overbearing at the moment.  I will keep trying it though.

 

Were you as dysfunctional as I am describing in my posts when you started tapering?  

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RealMe
On 1/25/2018 at 7:00 PM, wantrelief said:

Thank you for writing me back, Brass.  I am sorry for the repetitiveness of my questions and concerns.  I am just really scared at the moment and finding it hard to hang in there feeling like this.     

 

I did try the passive distraction technique!  I found it hard to relax into, my thoughts are just overbearing at the moment.  I will keep trying it though.

 

Were you as dysfunctional as I am describing in my posts when you started tapering?  

Hi Wantrelief,

What is the passive distraction technique?  I always appreciate your comments and support, and I hope you are feeling better.  I have been taking medications for such a long time, it is a wonderful thing to have such understanding people and hope to some day break free of brain altering chemicals.  Hugs & healing, RM

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wantrelief
On 1/10/2018 at 7:53 PM, brassmonkey said:

A bit of passive distraction might be something to try.  Active distraction would be watching TV, reading a book, doing a hobby.  Passive distraction would be letting yourself get lost in watching the clouds out the window to the point where there is nothing in the world by you, the moving clouds and the sky. All other thought just slip away. At night you can do a similar thing with a candle flame or fireplace. Don't force it to happen, just let it happen.

 

1 hour ago, RealMe said:

Hi Wantrelief,

What is the passive distraction technique?  I always appreciate your comments and support, and I hope you are feeling better.  I have been taking medications for such a long time, it is a wonderful thing to have such understanding people and hope to some day break free of brain altering chemicals.  Hugs & healing, RM

Hi RM:  Thanks for stopping by!  See above for Brassmonkey's description of the passive distraction technique.  I am so glad you have experienced a window.  I am, unfortunately, not feeling any differently, but it helps to have friends such as yourself on this forum who understand.  You will accomplish your goal of becoming free from medications....you already have come such a far way!

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Kristine
On 26/01/2018 at 11:00 AM, wantrelief said:

I am just really scared at the moment and finding it hard to hang in there feeling like this.     

Hey WR,  I'm so sorry you have been feeling like this.  I realise this is a week ago....how have you been for the past few days? It is so scary and overwhelming.  Hoping you are experiencing some comfort and peace. Hugs. K xox

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wantrelief
Just now, Kristine said:

Hey WR,  I'm so sorry you have been feeling like this.  I realise this is a week ago....how have you been for the past few days? It is so scary and overwhelming.  Hoping you are experiencing some comfort and peace. Hugs. K xox

Thanks so much for your message, Kristine, and your kind words.  Well, truthfully, I feel the same as that post a week ago.  I have had such a long journey with these medications and some of the problems I created myself (going up and down so many times, adding Klonopin and then upping that too) unlike a lot of people here who didn't know what was happening. I feel like I have such a long journey still to go and have no idea how I am going to get there. Sorry for being such a downer...I think I am feeling sorry for myself today.  I had a phone appointment today where I rehashed my adventures with these drugs and it made me sad to talk about how many years I've struggled and now find myself worse off than ever before.  Wow, I guess I had a lot to get off of my chest!  I find it much easier to be positive on other people's threads than my own.  Speaking of which, I hope you are doing ok....I will stop by your thread to say hello!

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Kristine
21 minutes ago, wantrelief said:

Thanks so much for your message, Kristine, and your kind words.  Well, truthfully, I feel the same as that post a week ago.  I have had such a long journey with these medications and some of the problems I created myself (going up and down so many times, adding Klonopin and then upping that too) unlike a lot of people here who didn't know what was happening. I feel like I have such a long journey still to go and have no idea how I am going to get there. Sorry for being such a downer...I think I am feeling sorry for myself today.  I had a phone appointment today where I rehashed my adventures with these drugs and it made me sad to talk about how many years I've struggled and now find myself worse off than ever before.  Wow, I guess I had a lot to get off of my chest!  I find it much easier to be positive on other people's threads than my own.  Speaking of which, I hope you are doing ok....I will stop by your thread to say hello!

I'm sorry your symptoms are the same.  I don't think you have created some of these problems yourself....you have been trying to survive.  When I was working I was changing doses (and meds) frequently...one of the main problems was shift work.  I avoided night shifts but sometimes I was rostered and didn't have a choice. Not to mention the Late/early shifts. I was in a constantly sleep deprived state.  This was a big contributing factor to my 2015 life derailment.  Can you relate to this?  You need to express yourself, you are not being a downer! This forum isn't called "everything is peachy" 😉 Rehashing the past and the destruction of these drugs (past and present) is very heartbreaking.   I think the feelings are very similar, if not identical, to grieving.  I hope the phone appointment was in some way healing.  Sending you hugs. K xo

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wantrelief
1 minute ago, Kristine said:

I'm sorry your symptoms are the same.  I don't think you have created some of these problems yourself....you have been trying to survive.  When I was working I was changing doses (and meds) frequently...one of the main problems was shift work.  I avoided night shifts but sometimes I was rostered and didn't have a choice. Not to mention the Late/early shifts. I was in a constantly sleep deprived state.  This was a big contributing factor to my 2015 life derailment.  Can you relate to this?  You need to express yourself, you are not being a downer! This forum isn't called "everything is peachy" 😉 Rehashing the past and the destruction of these drugs (past and present) is very heartbreaking.   I think the feelings are very similar, if not identical, to grieving.  I hope the phone appointment was in some way healing.  Sending you hugs. K xo

Oh thank you so much for sharing your experience with me.  I do identify very much with what you have said about trying to survive....I do think some of the changes I made were an attempt to be well enough for work as I was supporting myself at the time and I wanted to go back to feeling "normal" again, living my life as who doesn't?  I am still struggling with this, to be honest....it is hard to fight that urge to try to fix this.  And that is the message we get from doctors, that is can be fixed. It is interesting what you said about grieving; I was actually going to say that in my original post but didn't for some reason.  The phone appointment was helpful, albeit a bit overwhelming. Your comment about this forum not being called "everything is peachy" was funny!  Your post has really helped me, Kristine...you are a gem.

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brassmonkey

Hi Wantrelief--  thanks for getting back to RealMe with my comments.  I haven't really thought about it but it looks like maybe I should write up something on the subject and give a bit more detail.

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Kristine
4 hours ago, wantrelief said:

 I am still struggling with this, to be honest....it is hard to fight that urge to try to fix this.  And that is the message we get from doctors, that is can be fixed.

Hey WR,  Ironically we are fixing this..healing ourselves...but also fixing the doctors mistakes. I know you are stuggling...I'm sure as the time progresses the suffering will ease and you'll look back and think..."was that all a bad dream?"...hugs. K xo

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RealMe

Hi Wantrelief,

Just checking in on you.  I've seen some of your posts to me and others, but nothing on your thread for a few days.  How are you feeling?  You always respond so kindly to me, and I appreciate that very much.  Just wondering how you are today.

xo RM

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wantrelief
1 minute ago, RealMe said:

Hi Wantrelief,

Just checking in on you.  I've seen some of your posts to me and others, but nothing on your thread for a few days.  How are you feeling?  You always respond so kindly to me, and I appreciate that very much.  Just wondering how you are today.

xo RM

Hi RM,

 

Thank you for checking in on me - that is very sweet of you.  I am having all of the same symptoms, no change for almost 5 months, so have decided to take the leap and make a very small cut to see how I feel.  I am terrified to taper feeling so awful but am going to give it a whirl.  I am thinking I will make a 2% cut tonight and go from there. 

 

I hope you are having another good day, RM.

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RealMe
1 minute ago, wantrelief said:

Hi RM,

I am having all of the same symptoms, no change for almost 5 months, so have decided to take the leap and make a very small cut to see how I feel.  I am terrified to taper feeling so awful but am going to give it a whirl.  I am thinking I will make a 2% cut tonight and go from there. 

 

I hope you are having another good day, RM.

Good luck with the taper, dear wantrelief.  I just started a 10% taper a couple of days ago and am prepared to hold for quite a while.  Are you using a liquid?  I worry about the bubbles in the dispenser.  Keep us posted on how you are feeling, especially after your 2% cut.  I don't know much scientifically or mathematically, but hopefully you will see some improvement.

I was just thinking of what Ali said about working on other things to help with symptoms, and I was just wondering, do you see a therapist?  I just started seeing a new one and don't know how much it will help, but the fact that he doesn't see me as someone who has to be on medication for the rest of my life is encouraging.  The last one told me point blank that I would not be able to stop the ADs, so I stopped seeing her.  She seemed to just be an arm of the psychiatrist.  The new therapist asked me about relationships, and I started talking about one of my two troubled daughters.  I thought it was irrelevant, but maybe it helped.  I can't do anything about her issues but love her and offer information when I get the opportunity (which is rare).  I've been reading a good book about possible causes of depression that originate outside of our bodies and brains by Johann Hari, Lost Connections.  I hope I am offering helpful thoughts and not interference or stress.  I want to be on your team!  You have been so helpful to me.

RM xo

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wantrelief
22 minutes ago, RealMe said:

Good luck with the taper, dear wantrelief.  I just started a 10% taper a couple of days ago and am prepared to hold for quite a while.  Are you using a liquid?  I worry about the bubbles in the dispenser.  Keep us posted on how you are feeling, especially after your 2% cut.  I don't know much scientifically or mathematically, but hopefully you will see some improvement.

I was just thinking of what Ali said about working on other things to help with symptoms, and I was just wondering, do you see a therapist?  I just started seeing a new one and don't know how much it will help, but the fact that he doesn't see me as someone who has to be on medication for the rest of my life is encouraging.  The last one told me point blank that I would not be able to stop the ADs, so I stopped seeing her.  She seemed to just be an arm of the psychiatrist.  The new therapist asked me about relationships, and I started talking about one of my two troubled daughters.  I thought it was irrelevant, but maybe it helped.  I can't do anything about her issues but love her and offer information when I get the opportunity (which is rare).  I've been reading a good book about possible causes of depression that originate outside of our bodies and brains by Johann Hari, Lost Connections.  I hope I am offering helpful thoughts and not interference or stress.  I want to be on your team!  You have been so helpful to me.

RM xo

Thank you for the good wishes, RM!  And for saying you want to be on my team....I really appreciate that as I am going to need a lot of support going forward and would really value your help.  We can support one another as we taper down.

 

I am using a combination of liquid and tablets at the moment but at some point I plan to transition to just liquid (this has worked well for me in the past).  At this point, it would be fabulous to see improvement but I am just hoping not to make anything worse.

 

I do see a therapist who is trained in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and she is supportive of my decision making process, fortunately. 

 

I am trying to work with fear around tapering as I have not been successful in the past numerous times with tapering and I also have a lot of fear around my already bad symptoms worsening as I taper.  Hopefully my therapist will be able to help me incorporate some tools to manage these fears.

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wantrelief

I wanted to post an update.  Given I have held for a few months without any change of symptoms, I decided it was time to try a small cut.  So last night I dropped citalopram by 2.4% (I was going to do a 2% cut but it was too hard to see the mark on the syringe so went with 2.4%) and will hold here for a month.  If all goes well, will continue to slowly taper.  I am hoping that by doing small cuts, my symptoms which are already difficult for me to function with, won't worsen.  It is my hope that in time some of the symptoms will lessen and I'll regain some functionality.  If the symptoms worsen, I'll have to reassess my plan.

 

I am feeling scared starting yet another tapering journey, now in such an unstable place, but have hope that others have been in such a place and have come through to the other side.  It is, however, overwhelming to think about living in this state for a long time to come....I try very hard to reign in such thoughts and stay in the present but must admit this is challenging as my life as I once knew it has changed so drastically.

 

I am wishing everyone well on their journeys towards healing.

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Downbutnotout

I hear you. And feel for you. . What is citalpram? An antidepressant? Does the klonopin help you? 

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wantrelief

Thank you for your message, DBNO, and for your thoughts.  I feel for you too....as I have written on your thread, we are experiencing very similar symptoms so I can really relate to what you are going through.

 

To answer your questions....citalopram is an antidepressant.  At the time I started Klonopin, I was in a lot of distress and thought that I needed it, so I made what I thought was the right decision at the time.  Of course now I wish I wasn't on it as it is going to be its own beast to get off of and it is overwhelming to even think about that task ahead of me when it is going to take so long to get off of citalopram alone - if I can even do it.   I don't know if Klonopin is helping me at this point or not....maybe a little bit as I suspect I would have even worse anxiety at the moment without it.  However, I worry about reaching tolerance at some point with it and benzos can also cause depression which I already have very badly.  So....even though I might be getting some small benefit from the Klonopin now, I am very scared about being on this drug so in that way it isn't helping me.  I hope that makes sense.

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Downbutnotout
3 hours ago, wantrelief said:

Thank you for your message, DBNO, and for your thoughts.  I feel for you too....as I have written on your thread, we are experiencing very similar symptoms so I can really relate to what you are going through.

 

To answer your questions....citalopram is an antidepressant.  At the time I started Klonopin, I was in a lot of distress and thought that I needed it, so I made what I thought was the right decision at the time.  Of course now I wish I wasn't on it as it is going to be its own beast to get off of and it is overwhelming to even think about that task ahead of me when it is going to take so long to get off of citalopram alone - if I can even do it.   I don't know if Klonopin is helping me at this point or not....maybe a little bit as I suspect I would have even worse anxiety at the moment without it.  However, I worry about reaching tolerance at some point with it and benzos can also cause depression which I already have very badly.  So....even though I might be getting some small benefit from the Klonopin now, I am very scared about being on this drug so in that way it isn't helping me.  I hope that makes sense.

My psychiatrist wanted to put me on that nightly and I refused it. Ativan was making me more depressed. Just like you said. At first it felt great, then depression. But I do long for  it because it did make me momentarily happy in the beginning. 

 

I actually got a little hooked on it. I only took it sporadically  for a couple weeks.

Yesterday, I retried tms and it didn’t work. Last night, I wasn’t as depressed. I was actually feeling a little bit normal. Maybe because they were firing my brain with magnets for a half hour  trying to find my motor cortex. Maybe it would’ve worked if my freaking finger would’ve moved. When they do tms, they see if your finger moves do they know how much Magnet power they should give you. I wish I could convince them to give it to me anyway, but I can’t. 

 

I also watched my grandson, and that might have helped. How low is your mood? I looked up your antidepressant at one point. It’s called celexa here. It did not agree with me 10 years ago. It made me very suicidal.  I don’t envy you getting off the klonopin. Good luck ! You are very, very brave. At least  you’re doing things the right way. 

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JS11

Hi WR,

I'm rooting for you as you start your taper. I know how you have struggled with this decision. It is not an easy one to make and I do understand the overwhelming nature of it all.  I feel that way too. 

 

You have been doing this a long time and I do so admire your strength. Withdrawal with so little relief is a difficult animal.  I am so hoping the small cuts and slow taper will give You some of the re lief you seek.

 

It is a challenge to reign in those thoughts.  I think that is such a good description.  I notice that mine have been out there of late.   Rewiring

definitely going on in my brain.  Oh to be done.

I am thinkink8ng of you my friend as always.

Take care 

JS

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wantrelief
2 hours ago, JS11 said:

Hi WR,

I'm rooting for you as you start your taper. I know how you have struggled with this decision. It is not an easy one to make and I do understand the overwhelming nature of it all.  I feel that way too. 

 

You have been doing this a long time and I do so admire your strength. Withdrawal with so little relief is a difficult animal.  I am so hoping the small cuts and slow taper will give You some of the re lief you seek.

 

It is a challenge to reign in those thoughts.  I think that is such a good description.  I notice that mine have been out there of late.   Rewiring

definitely going on in my brain.  Oh to be done.

I am thinkink8ng of you my friend as always.

Take care 

JS

Aw, thank you so much for your sweet supportive message and for your kind thoughts.....I really appreciate them,  JS11.  I have, indeed, struggled with this decision, just so scared of how I am feeling currently and the prospect of this possibly worsening.  Also scared to stay in this state for x amount of time.  I am trying to be as courageous as you and others have been in taking the plunge so I know I am in good company. I am thinking about you too and so grateful to have you as a friend on this journey.

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JS11

And I think you are courageous my friend!

Wild day at the office.  Don't think I have a break but will check in later when home.

I'm thinking if you

Take care

JS11

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Gridley

Thanks for dropping by, wantrelief.  Good luck.  When I started my Lexapro taper a year ago, I was scared and it's turned out well.  Yours will too.  I too am looking at a lot of time to get off these drugs.  One day at a time.

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wantrelief
29 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Thanks for dropping by, wantrelief.  Good luck.  When I started my Lexapro taper a year ago, I was scared and it's turned out well.  Yours will too.  I too am looking at a lot of time to get off these drugs.  One day at a time.

Thank you so much for your encouragement, Gridley....I really appreciate your supportive message!  

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Kristine
On 15/02/2018 at 6:03 AM, wantrelief said:

I am feeling scared starting yet another tapering journey, now in such an unstable place, but have hope that others have been in such a place and have come through to the other side.  It is, however, overwhelming to think about living in this state for a long time to come....I try very hard to reign in such thoughts and stay in the present but must admit this is challenging as my life as I once knew it has changed so drastically.

Hey WR,  I have just realised you have commenced another taper and I just wanted you to know I am thinking of you.  You are a brave soul and even though this is such a frightening time you are supported by all of us here.  I'm sending you the biggest cyberspace hug I can muster.  You have my support all the way WR. Much Love. K xo

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wantrelief
1 hour ago, Kristine said:

Hey WR,  I have just realised you have commenced another taper and I just wanted you to know I am thinking of you.  You are a brave soul and even though this is such a frightening time you are supported by all of us here.  I'm sending you the biggest cyberspace hug I can muster.  You have my support all the way WR. Much Love. K xo

Oh, Kristine....thank you so very much for your sweet supportive message - you made my day. I am sending you a big cyberspace hug back! I am thinking about you too.

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Downbutnotout
5 minutes ago, wantrelief said:

Oh, Kristine....thank you so very much for your sweet supportive message - you made my day. I am sending you a big cyberspace hug back! I am thinking about you too.

Wantrelief I hope you are doing better. 

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wantrelief
6 minutes ago, Downbutnotout said:

Wantrelief I hope you are doing better. 

Thanks DBNO.  So far the small taper I did hasn't made anything worse so that is a relief, for sure.  I am going to wait a few more weeks to make another small drop to test the waters again.  

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Downbutnotout
1 minute ago, wantrelief said:

Thanks DBNO.  So far the small taper I did hasn't made anything worse so that is a relief, for sure.  I am going to wait a few more weeks to make another small drop to test the waters again.  

That’s good. 

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