david: to quit or not to quit

[david]

I think you are right Alto. These side effects are due to taking too much. I am obviously hyper sensitive even at such low dosage. The problem I have now is when I try and take consecutively it's too much for me. On the second day I wake up fried, dehydrated, blood shot eyes,grinding teeth and getting very intense dreams. The problem I have now is that I can't physically cut the 25mg pills any smaller. Until I can get 10mg pills or am able to take with water solution, I think I need to take on alternative days. I know this isn;t recommended. When I first took the ami a few years back though for a few months this was how I would take them and didn't get the same adverse side effects.

[Skyler]

I think you are right Alto. These side effects are due to taking too much. I am obviously hyper sensitive even at such low dosage. The problem I have now is when I try and take consecutively it's too much for me. On the second day I wake up fried, dehydrated, blood shot eyes,grinding teeth and getting very intense dreams. The problem I have now is that I can't physically cut the 25mg pills any smaller. Until I can get 10mg pills or am able to take with water solution, I think I need to take on alternative days. I know this isn;t recommended. When I first took the ami a few years back though for a few months this was how I would take them and didn't get the same adverse side effects.

 

david... follow the instructions for making a water solution. Do not take on alternate days. Take if from one who has done that.. big mistake. Making a water solution is not so difficult, though it can seem so at the outset, but that's just because it's something new. The other option would be to cut the 25mg pills in half.. have you tried a pill cutter?

[david]

Ok Shuyler I will try. When I asked the pharmacies here if they had the utensils they looked at me like I was from another planet. Will try the hospital.( At least now I am beginning to understand why my body is reacting like it is.)

[Skyler]

Ok Shuyler I will try. When I asked the pharmacies here if they had the utensils they looked at me like I was from another planet. Will try the hospital.

 

Why do you need to ask at a hospital? don't tell them you are going to taper.. just ask for a 1CC oral syringe and/or a pill cutter. You should have both on hand if you are going to do this, but I would not tell them any details. Asking at a hospital would seem to complicate things needlessly unless they do things way differently there than they do here.

[david]

They do EVERYTHING way differently here than over there haha.I was just going to ask a nurse if she could hook me up with a few oral syringes. There is also a medical store I could try. What does the 1CC stand for?

[Skyler]

They do EVERYTHING way differently here than over there haha.I was just going to ask a nurse if she could hook me up with a few oral syringes. There is also a medical store I could try. What does the 1CC stand for?

 

I really suggest you ask at a pharmacy first. They will have them because folks taking meds need to use oral syringes on occasion for dosing. Here going to a hospital for that sort of thing would be an unnecessary complication, not to mention they would not oblige.

 

1 a cc is the same as an ml... milileter. My link

[david]

Shuyler, can you please give me a very simple, numbered breakdown of what I should do after I get the oral syringes. I have 25mg ami and I want to start at around 1.5mg and reduce.

[Skyler]

Shuyler, can you please give me a very simple, numbered breakdown of what I should do after I get the oral syringes. I have 25mg ami and I want to start at around 1.5mg and reduce.

 

Get the syringe first. Hmm, also ask for a 10 cc oral syringe and a large amber pill bottle (they are all amber). Then you can mix a 1 to 1 solution more easily. Easy to follow once you have it. Because you are so anxious about all this you are making things far more difficult than they are. It's really quite simple.

[david]

only syringes he had were disposable ones for insulin??

only fish oil capsules he had were 300mg EPA

I still don't know what the pill bottle is for?

[david]

can i just remove the needle from the syringe?

[Skyler]

only syringes he had were disposable ones for insulin??

only fish oil capsules he had were 300mg EPA

I still don't know what the pill bottle is for?

 

Far as I know, you can't just remove the needle without damaging the syringe. Not that I'm the handiest person going, but I did try with no success and Alto has told folks to get oral syringes and not try to take the needle out. There are sites online from which you should be able to order oral syringes. Alto can advise further on this.

 

Fish oil is not in my area.

 

Pill bottle is to mix the water and ami suspension so you can draw it up into the syringe.

[Altostrata]

david, read these instructions for making a solution with water: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2381-tips-for-tapering-off-lyrica-pregabalin/

 

The instructions are for Lyrica but can be applied to many others.

 

If you are reading this site on a cell phone, I fear you are losing important information. NEVER ALTERNATE DOSES TO TAPER. Please try to use a computer or tablet so you can read instructions properly. Take notes if necessary, or e-mail the topic to yourself for re-reading.

[david]

tried my own oral solution with amitrip but doesn't seem to completely disolve/ also, I noticed on the box it says not to refrigerate/ would this be any different when mixed with water or only referring to a longer period of time?

[Skyler]

tried my own oral solution with amitrip but doesn't seem to completely disolve

HI David.. glad to see you are progressing! Are you talking about the particles that are still visible in the suspension (to be expected) or do the tablets not completely dissolve?

 

 

I noticed on the box it says not to refrigerate/ would this be any different when mixed with water or only referring to a longer period of time?

 

Then leave it out of the fridge.. the caution here is more for suspension amounts you are going to store for several days, so it won't get moldy, etc. But if you mix for 2 or 3 days there is no problem.

[david]

hi shuyler

 

I mixed 25mg with 25ml so was hoping to keep in fridge for about 7 days. They don't seem to completely dissolve as there is a residue at the bottom.

[Skyler]

hi shuyler

 

I mixed 25mg with 25ml so was hoping to keep in fridge for about 7 days. They don't seem to completely dissolve as there is a residue at the bottom.

 

Are you are describing a powdery residue that goes into suspension when you shake? If so, this is the reason Alto says to shake gently just before you take the dose out of the vial. This is the powder the drug companies mix the med with and is to be expected.

 

I would not keep the solution more than 3 days out of the fridge.. see what Alto says here. You are in Saudi Arabia.. do your living quarters get very hot?

 

Suggestion? You indicate the UK on your profile, but put UK/Saudi Arabia so folks who are trying to help are more informed? Don't know if you are comfortable doing this...

[david]

24/7 aircon

 

Ok , so that explains the residue. Hopefully Alto can help with the refrigeration question. If it's easier I can just mix half the pill. (so that would be 2 ml for every gram)and keep for 3/4 days.

[Altostrata]

See the new topic How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

Amitryptyline is available as a liquid in the UK http://www.patient.co.uk/medicine/Amitriptyline.htm The liquid needs refrigeration.

 

The US instructions for the tablets indicate refrigeration is fine.

 

What was the reason you won't buy the liquid?

 

Yes, you can make a liquid from half the tablet. Be careful about cutting it up.

[david]

After taking around 3mg for a few days,I found that although it boosted me slightly, still didn't feel 100%. I then tried around 5mg and felt good the next day but the second day, like before, it seems too much. I am caught between taking at a smaller dose with less benefit or higher dose with more side effects?

[Brandy]

David, I'm not real familiar with ami, but I know a lot about tapering antidepressants.

 

It might take more than a few days for the med to fully take effect, even if you start to feel somewhat better in a few days.

 

It's important that you choose a (low) dose and stay with that same dose every day for a while. After so many dose changes, your body is probably confused. It may not respond exactly the way it did in the past, so give it time to adjust to that dose. (Alto can advise you when you might be able to change the dose in the future, if necessary, but you will need to observe how you do on 3 for longer.

 

Even if you don't feel 100%, if it stabilizes you, then in a while you'll be ready to do a very slow taper.

 

But it's important not to keep jumping up and down in dose! Staying at 3 for a while could and taking the same amount every day, at about the same time each day, could make a big difference in your later tapering off as easily as possible.

[Brandy]

P.S. Antidepressants are not like aspirins where you get the effects right away lol!

 

Some people feel the effects faster than others, but you don't get the full effects fast. Give it time (without changing dose) to work fully.

 

Your nervous system will thank you in a while for your patience, believe me! Jumping around in dose is catching up with you and will make this harder than it has to be.

[david]

Thanks Brandy, I will try again at around 2mg. Even 3mg seems too much when taken back to back.

[Skyler]

Thanks Brandy, I will try again at around 2mg. Even 3mg seems too much when taken back to back.

 

David, take 3mls until you heard from Alto. Seems you took 2 mls for a couple of days, then 3 mls for 3 days, and 5 mls for one? Do you think your anxiety might be getting in the way? Are you using a handheld.. could you set up a sig line so we can follow your changes better? Jockeying doses around that way is about the worst decision you can make. Been there, did that.. and it made me feel awful. Much better to pick a dose and hold.

 

Btw... good going getting syringes (you were able to get oral syringes from the pharmacist there?), and making the solution up.

[david]

Hi Shuyler,

 

Even the 3mg back to back seems too much. After the second dose I get hyper and I wake up totally wired.Will try and hold on 2mg for longer period. I just took the needle out of the syringe and it works fine. Because I upped the dose went back to cutting but will try the solution tonight.(btw if the residue at the bottom is not the active ingredient I don't get why I should stir it up before taking as the residue won't actually be the ami trip?)

 

I am using the desktop.

[Skyler]

Hi Shuyler,

 

Even the 3mg back to back seems too much. After the second dose I get hyper and I wake up totally wired.Will try and hold on 2mg for longer period. I just took the needle out of the syringe and it works fine.

Dave.. make a commitment to yourself to hold if that is what you think is best. Glad to hear your syringe works fine.

 

 

Because I upped the dose went back to cutting but will try the solution tonight.(btw if the residue at the bottom is not the active ingredient I don't get why I should stir it up before taking as the residue won't actually be the ami trip?)

 

I am using the desktop.

 

David are you mixing 1 ml to 1 mg? I'm not sure you are getting enough diluent to fully dissolve the tablet. Check with Alto on this.. When Alto speaks 1 to 1 she is usually talking 10 to 1.. (Alto chime in here?)...

 

I've also wondered about the residue issue.. but have come to the conclusion that if the residue is thoroughly mixed, the tiny particles of the main ingredient (AD or whatever) are also thoroughly mixed. Do I have this right, you were unable to get a 10mL syringe? You really do need one to mix the suspension because without, you may be drawing up the amount of diluent you need too many times to be accurate.

[david]

Hi Shuyler,

 

I am using 5ml syringe.

[Skyler]

Hi Shuyler,

 

I am using 5ml syringe.

 

So you are diluting one tablet with 5 mLs? That may not be enough H20 to dissolve the tablet. You may need to use 10 mLs. total. Give this a try to see if there are fewer suspended particles.

[david]

Sorry Shuyler, no I am using 5ml x 5 so 25ml with 25 mg

[Skyler]

Sorry Shuyler, no I am using 5ml x 5 so 25ml with 25 mg

 

(btw if the residue at the bottom is not the active ingredient I don't get why I should stir it up before taking as the residue won't actually be the ami trip?)

 

LOL.. sounds like you are doing it right, just hanging your 'anxiety hat' on the presence of suspended particles. Have to confess, I'd like to know as well, but that said, caution would dictate mixing the suspension as well as possible.

[Altostrata]

Sorry, Schuyler, when I say 1:1 I mean 1mg in 1mL of water, not 1:10.

 

David, when you take ami over days, given its longish half-life, it builds up in your bloodstream. So your observation that 3mg is too much after a couple of days is probably correct.

 

I agree, try 2mg over a few days. If it builds up too much, try 1.5mg for a couple of days. And so on -- listen to your body to find the right dose.

[Skyler]

Sorry, Schuyler, when I say 1:1 I mean 1mg in 1mL of water, not 1:10.

 

Yeah.. got that second time round. I was thinking of smaller doses that need more diluent per mg (e.g. requip at .25 mgs tablets, or vice vera in the other direction with Lyrica)... but that is not the case here. LOL, that's why I switched to asking about per tablet.. my math conversions are then notwithstanding.

[david]

between a rock and a hard place....after the 5mg and reducing to 2mg had my first good day in a long time/ continued around 2.2 mg for last 3/4 days and felt ok but it seems depression has hit again/ if I take above 3mg back to back I get the hyper side effects but if I reduce to 2mg it doesn't seem to be enough to stop the depression hitting...

[Altostrata]

If 2.2mg worked, stay at that dosage. Was 2.5mg too much?

 

Depression can be a withdrawal symptom. You may need to stabilize at 2.2mg (or a little more) for a while, a month or more, before it goes away.

 

This is an ongoing process, not all of your symptoms will immediately go away. Your nervous system has to settle down from all the ups and downs in dosage.

[david]

Thanks Alto, will try at around 2.5mg/ I think also because I didn't put the solution in fridge over last 4 days it has caused bad stomach upset tonight and maybe effected the ami trip's potency?

[Altostrata]

Heat and light may cause it to degrade.

 

You can take it with or without food. If it's upsetting your stomach, you may wish to take it with food.

[Skyler]

Thanks Alto, will try at around 2.5mg/ I think also because I didn't put the solution in fridge over last 4 days it has caused bad stomach upset tonight and maybe effected the ami trip's potency?

 

Hi David.. I take my meds QID, so end up with one dose at 3AM. Sometimes I just roll over and go back to sleep after taking said dose, but as often I have to get up and have something to eat as my stomach starts rolling. I'm not sure how often you are taking the dose, but splitting it into BID or TID should help. If I took mine all at once without food I'd be having significant issues.

 

Also.. I was a nervous wreck when first starting to mix.. had I left the meds out?, would they deteriorate with my handling?, was the suspension mixed evenly?, did I have the right syringes?, etc.. As you get used to mixing the solution it will become second nature. I never had anything deteriorate, but did not leave it out for more than 4 days or in direct light (the amber pill bottle helps here).