david: to quit or not to quit

[Altostrata]

If David has been taking ami once a day, I would not split the dose. The stomach upset might have been one-off.

[david]

I have been thinking about maybe splitting the dose. Anything above 2 mg knocks me out. I just want to make sure about something here. The problems started after a couple of weeks of citalopram, not the ami trip. If I needed to address the probs from the citalopram withdrawal should I not be going back on the citalopram or doesn't it work that way?

[Altostrata]

Neurologically, you can't step in the same river twice.

 

It's been over a year since you took citalopram; you've been taking ami; it seems taking ami stopped the withdrawal symptoms before, so ami seems like it might be the most likely prospect.

 

Yes, you can fiddle with the dosage to make it more tolerable. Make changes in a very controlled way, give each change at least a couple of days to take effect, and take notes.

 

Could you put your withdrawal history in your signature? See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/ This will make it easier to follow what you're doing.

[david]

Last few days completely messed up. Now I really don't know what to believe. There seems to be no formula to this thing. One minute the pills seem to help and the next I am fried out of my head. I am beginning to think going back to these pills was a bad idea. Maybe I should have just tried to ride it out. Looking through this forum I am still confused at what these type of pills are doing to the body. One thread I read seemed to deny it has anything to do with serotonin levels. I also just read this comment

 

...."If they started with paxil, you need to heal from the paxil"

 

So if my problems started with citalopram, will ami trip help the situation?

[Skyler]

I am still confused at what these type of pills are doing to the body. One thread I read seemed to deny it has anything to do with serotonin levels. I also just read this comment

 

...."If they started with paxil, you need to heal from the paxil"

 

So if my problems started with citalopram, will ami trip help the situation?

 

Hmmm, problem seems to be you get anxious when you read something that gives appearances of being contradictory before checking it out. How about checking it out first, and not allowing yourself to get anxious unless the 'shoe' really fits? Maybe link to the tread and give a post number so Alto can respond more easily. The quote above was from one of her responses and would have been made in response to someone in other circumstances?

 

I'm sorry to hear you are still having so many withdrawal issues. You are going to need to 'ride' it out no matter what you do, so it's a matter of what will make the ride easiest. Wish there was an better way.

 

This post was edited at 9:36 AM

[david]

Thanks Shuyler. I am obviously extremely sensitive to the meds. I am not sure if that's due to the withdrawal or because I used to take on alternate days. It's difficult to find that balance. I think in the same way if I take say 3.5 mg for two nights, I get the same effect at around 2.2mg for 4 nights. Trying to gauge the right amount by going up and down isn't helping I guess.

[Skyler]

Thanks Shuyler. I am obviously extremely sensitive to the meds. It's difficult to find that balance. I think in the same way if I take say 3.5 mg for two nights, I get the same effect at around 2.2mg for 4 nights. Trying to gauge the right amount by going up and down isn't helping I guess.

 

David, are you varying your dose and not holding? If you vary the dose.. 2.2 mgs for 4 nights, up and down, it's going to mess you up. Been there, done that.. big mistake.

 

All the same, good hearing from you.

[Altostrata]

david, since you switched on and off meds, it's hard to tell what does what. You were on ami for long enough for your nervous system to adapt to that. Your guess is as good as mine whether citalopram would be better, or if maybe in your case reinstatement won't work.

 

Yes, these drugs act on serotonin, but no one ever had a serotonin deficiency. That's a myth.

 

Withdrawal symptoms occur because these drugs cause downregulation or desensitization of serotonin receptors. Your nervous system needs feedback from these receptors (and all receptors) to function properly. The drugs have knocked them out.

 

Your receptors need to grow back and your nervous system to adapt to the new situation before withdrawal symptoms go away. Taking a little bit of the prior antidepressant makes it a little easier to adapt, the gap between "on meds" and "off meds" isn't as great.

 

That a little bit of ami relieves symptoms somewhat is a good sign. The waves and windows indicate your nervous system is sometimes succeeding in stabilizing. It thrives on stability. You need to be consistent in your dose and even the time you take it.

[david]

Thanks Alto, it helps to get a handle on the science behind it. I think the couple of times in the last few weeks where I have tried to increase and reduced again hasn't helped. I have also noticed I have become hyper sensitive to light. Something I think that's always been there. Right now we are getting daily dust storms and as soon as the light drops my mood drops accordingly.

[Altostrata]

Do you mean when it gets darker your mood drops?

[david]

yes, noticeably

[david]

Hello Party People!

 

I have been off ami trip for now almost 11 months but still struggling a little bit . I was on and off meds like a yo-yo for about 2 years but never more then 2mg. By the end though i was having a bad reaction to even less than 1mg mixed in 2half litre of water! I don;t know whether to try and ride it out or go back at even tiniest amount( am thinking 1mg in 6-12 litres water) Am scared of going back tho after all the struggles. I recognise the waves and windows withdrawal symptoms but still difficult to see specific pattern. Do you think i will still be as sensitive to it after all this time? Most of my days are bearable but i still get a flatness particularly after 4pm.The physical thing I feel I can deal with but it's this flatness that's difficult. I did have a brief 2 week period where this lifted but otherwise it's been pretty constant.  Magnesium oil was helping with my anxiety but seems to space me out now.

[david]

oh, just to mention one common symptom that I have been keeping track of/ i call it the 'head melt.' I can actually feel my brain doing something which feels like re-balancing all the dials to zero/ like a clean slate/almost like a meditative state/ makes me very drowsy/ seems to come on around once a month and lasts 4-7 days

[Altostrata]

Hello again, david.

 

It's been so long you're off amitryptaline and it seems you had a bad reaction to it, so reinstatement is probably out for you.

 

Please see our Symptoms and Self-care forum for ideas about how to cope with symptoms.

 

How are you sleeping?

[david]

Hi Alto,

 

Sleeping has never really been an issue. Regular 7 hours. The magnesium definitely helped to relax me too but also gave me even more vivid dreams. I'm amazed at how effective magnesium is but I think I almost got addicted to it. Any time I felt anxious I would take 3/4 hits of mag oil and it was making me too spaced out.

[Altostrata]

Well, it's a good sign you're sleeping, it will help you heal.

 

Perhaps use a little less mag oil?

[david]

been feeling more spaced out than normal the last week or two. i thought it was the mag but now i'm not so sure because i have stopped the last few days. only thing different in my diet i can think of is drinking normal tea recently as opposed to green/ also i have started eating spinach/ i think i read somewhere that it contains a  lot of vitamin k which is a big no-no for withdrawal? 

[Altostrata]

I've never heard of vitamin K or spinach being a problem in withdrawal.

 

What exactly does "spaced out" feel like?

[david]

Hi Alto, 

 

By spaced out I just mean feeling very wired, like i drank 100 cups of strong coffee and getting extremely vivid dreams/ disconnected from reality/ even more sensitive to noise than normal/ key sign is when i wake up and my eyes are bloodshot to hell

 

I'm beginning to think the last few days might be down to the black tea

 

Alto/ do you think if I did try and go back even at the smallest possible dosage it would be like having to start again?

[Altostrata]

We don't call that spaced out, we call it overstimulated.

 

You should avoid caffeine and anything else that's stimulating.

 

If I would you, I would not take ami again or any other antidepressant, your nervous system has become sensitized to anything that's neurologically active.

 

See our Symptoms and Self-care forum for suggestions about how to cope with symptoms http://tinyurl.com/3hq949z

 

Many people do well with fish oil, too, see

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

If magnesium helps, you may wish to take smaller amounts throughout the day, see

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

[david]

Thanks Alto,

I  never really noticed any change with the fish oil. Maybe I will try again. My wave symptoms seem to be actually intensifying similar to when I first came off the amitrip but lasting for a shorter period of time. Is this a common cycle?

[Altostrata]

See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-recovery/

[Petunia]

been feeling more spaced out than normal the last week or two. i thought it was the mag but now i'm not so sure because i have stopped the last few days. only thing different in my diet i can think of is drinking normal tea recently as opposed to green/ also i have started eating spinach/ i think i read somewhere that it contains a  lot of vitamin k which is a big no-no for withdrawal? 

 

Hi David,

I notice an increase in my level of anxiety/stimulation when I drink regular tea or coffee, so I don't any more, I drink decaff.  Did you know that green tea even contains some caffeine, not as much as black tea though.

 

I found it interesting that you also mentioned spinach.  Spinach is a high histamine food, there is a possibility that you may have become sensitized to histamine.  I very recently (yesterday) started researching this area of diet and have noticed a possible connection between when I've eaten high histamine foods and an increase in my symptoms. 

 

When the nervous system becomes sensitized by withdrawal, it reacts differently to many of the common substances in our diet and environment.

 

If I were you I would switch to decaff tea and see if that makes a difference, if not, then maybe look into histamine intolerance.

 

I've come to the conclusion that medication withdrawal and recovery is like an ongoing exercise in balance.  We need to both protect and exercise our nervous system at the same time, very gently pushing it back towards its natural state and maximum strength with an objective of ultimately being able to live a full and varied life again......

 

....so maybe don't completely switch to decaff, but try a very weak cup of black tea in the afternoon to give you a small lift in mood when you need it, but drink decaff  or green tea the rest of the time.  I suppose it depends on if you really want to start using caffeine again as part of your life.

 

It might not be as convenient, but getting outside in the fresh air for a quick walk can often work better at increasing energy and motivation than caffeine.

[david]

Hi Silver Star,

 

Thanks for the advice. Tbh i only switched to black tea because the local supermarket didn't have any green tea left   The histamine link I wasn;t aware of before. I am hoping it's not the spinach though because it seemed to be helping with an increase in my libido again.