Iggy131313 validation is imminent

[Nadia]

Don't panic! Reinstating was logical to try at 5 months... you never know, it may have worked. From what you say, I gather you had bad symptoms reinstating, but it did help to make the panic attacks go away until your more recent drop?

 

That is great news about Dr. Healy. I hope you get to see him soon. Let us know how that goes!

[Iggy131313]

lol. no it made everything a million times worse, akathesia and anxiety, more panic attacks and sheer hell, I am still in hell.

 

I cant even interact with my 3 year old son, everything is just too much for me, the RI was a living hell and still is.

 

The anxiety I had befoe RIing was bad but no where near like it was from trying ti RI or now, Nadia, I have read your journey and again, it scares me very much, I know thats going to be my life too and I just cant cope, how is your anxiety now?

 

For me, I would take every other symptom if the anxiety and akathesia would go.

[Iggy131313]

here is my drug history

 

On citalopram 40mg/20mg july 2009 - FEB 2012 - 2.5 years. CT stop.

Restarted Celexa july 2012 after 5 months off - awful reaction kindling/adverse reaction

 

6 weeks - 20mg

1 week - 10mg

2 days - 20mg

5 days - 30mg

3 days - 20mg

3.5 weeks 10mg

2 weeks 7.5mg

2 weeks 5mg

29th Oct - 2.5mg

[Iggy131313]

Its been nearly 3 weeks that I have been on 2.5 now and I want to drop again, Im thinking of going to 1.25 or do you think thats a bad idea? Should I make a smaller drop maybe go halfway and titraate the 2.5 and go down in thirds? I know Brandy thinks I have got worse after my last drop, I just dont know what to do

 

Nadia, its the anxiety that kills me the most and that has not let up for you in 2 years has it? I cant bear it anymore and I have only been in hell for 4 months, its a drop in ocean compared to the hell I am about to enbark on and for years and years with no guarentee of a happy ending, I just want to end it all now.

[Altostrata]

It's up to you, Iggy. Does decreasing improve or worsen your symptoms?

[Iggy131313]

Brand says they amek me worse, she has been reading my jouranls at ''the site that must not be named'' lol

 

and I do think this last 50% drop has made things worse, deffintitly my sleep is alot worse, but how can I start to heal with this drug still in my system?

[Altostrata]

Iggy, don't push yourself to go off for this reason. Your nervous system can stabilize with the drug in your system.

 

When it is more stable, you will be better able to tolerate reductions.

[Iggy131313]

This is a concept that I struggle with, how do I know when I am more stable? I am in hell and have been from the beginning, last night I only woke up once and only very breifly, I was able to get to sleep at 1am and when my hubby got up with my baby boy I was able to get back off to sleep until 10.30, the past few days that has been impossible but like I say I am on my period which is now cming to an end so that ould have been a real factor in how bad I have been over the past 2 weeks.

 

So does stabalising mean not getting any worse even though you are in hell? and how long do you give it to see, and how do you know if you are getting worse that its not a natural kind of wave?

 

Alto, have you seen people recover 100%?

[Iggy131313]

and surly having this drg even in small amounts in my system is aggrivating things? it still having an effect on my system and as we can hardly tolerate things like suppliments that stimulate the serotonin system it makes sense that this is making things worse.

 

On the other hand Im scraed that I have yet again kindled and the w/d from this is going to compound the w/d I was already in, I feel like stopping it all together. But thats probably a bad idea, I wish I knew what to do

[Altostrata]

Wait until your period is over before you make any decisions.

 

Yes, people do recover completely.

[Iggy131313]

another thing is I have taken valium twice in the past couple of weeks, do you think that somehow this could have made things worse?

 

I hardly take them but took one at night time just over a week ago and then another 3 days later?

 

I eel like Im stuck between a rock and a hard place as Im scraed that coming off the cit all together is going to send me into another worse w/d but then I wonder if having the cit in my system could be aggrivating things, I know you ask if I am worse or better as I drop but its so hard to tell the differnence between incremental versions of hell.

 

you say you dont think ill get worse when I come off? I really really hope not, and I know that fear is just addin to my stress levels and making things worse, at least when I am off this stuff I wont have to fret about what move to make next I will just have to let the onslaught begin.

 

 

god help us all

[Altostrata]

Iggy, we're going around and around.

 

I can't tell if you have withdrawal symptoms or an adverse reaction (hypersensitivity) to that small amount of Celexa. Certainly 20mg was too much for you and you had an adverse reaction.

 

It's up to you to sort this out. Your worrying is making this even harder. Do you feel better or worse when you make a decrease?

 

What was your symptom pattern before and after the Valium? Are you keeping notes?

[Iggy131313]

I honestly dont know if I feel any better or worse than I did at 10mg, I have had a bad chest infection - that definitly made me feel worse, and I am on my period now and that always always makes things worse.

 

I think the drop to 2.5 has made me worse, on 5 I was in hell but I was able to walk to the shops everyday is total discomfort, I tried going to the shops last week and it was a horror show I just wanted to run screaming from them.

 

I must have felt worse to take the valium in the first place but I did notice that I was ok the day after taking them (I took them at night) but the day after that I seemed a little worse, due to their long half life do you think I could have been getting rebound symptoms even though I hardly EVER take them?

 

The other thing is I havent been trying as hard over the past couple of weeks, I have let w/d drag me into a pit of dispear, I am staying in bed all day everyday and avoiding everyone and everything including my son as I dont feel able to cope, I dont know if doing that makes me worse or if Im doing it becasue I AM worse. I think the latter

 

I tryed to go for lunch with the in laws 2 days ago and had to leave after 30 minutes, the anxiety was so unbearable, but I havent tryed anything like that on any dose so again I cant tell if its worse.

 

Well, yes I have felt maybe worse.

[Altostrata]

Yes, you may have gotten rebound from the Valium.

 

If decreases make you worse, you might try holding.

[Iggy131313]

I have been at 2.5 for 3 weeks now, I guess Ill hold at least for another week and see how I am.

 

some people at PP told me that its not possible to feel rebound from valium unless you were dependant on it but I was pretty sure it was making me feel a bit worse, I may experiment with it again next week and see if the same thing happens

[Altostrata]

You can feel rebound if you take it only occasionally. Next time, you may wish to take less.

 

Also, keep notes of dosage and symptoms so you can track your patterns.

[Iggy131313]

Alto, you say you dont think coming off will make me any worse but I have been on the celexa for 4 months now, surley that is going to give me another major w/d when I stop and even worse than it was before because of kindling

 

I was on 20mg fo 6 weeks

messed around for a few days going up and then back down - but only days

4 weeks on 10mg

2 weeks on 7.5

2 weeks on 5

and now 3.5 weeks on 2.5

 

I plan to drop to 2mg tomorrow and stay there for 2 weeks before dropping to 1.5

 

do you think I should jump off at 1mg, is that what most people do? Or do you think it would be better for me to go down to 0.5 before jumping off?

[Skyler]

Alto, you say you dont think coming off will make me any worse but I have been on the celexa for 4 months now, surley that is going to give me another major w/d when I stop and even worse than it was before because of kindling

 

I was on 20mg fo 6 weeks

messed around for a few days going up and then back down - but only days

4 weeks on 10mg

2 weeks on 7.5

2 weeks on 5

and now 3.5 weeks on 2.5

 

I plan to drop to 2mg tomorrow and stay there for 2 weeks before dropping to 1.5

 

do you think I should jump off at 1mg, is that what most people do? Or do you think it would be better for me to go down to 0.5 before jumping off?

 

Hi iggy... you will not have the kind of problems you describe if you SLOW down. You are going to fast, especially now you are at the lower doses. You need to stay where you are until the symptoms disappear (2 or 3 mos depending on how you feel), then start to drop by 5 to 10% each successive dose, hold for a month each. The next time you cut reduce to 3.3 mgs. This will ensure you are able to get off without major withdrawal symptoms. ~S

[Iggy131313]

But in my case I never stabalise, I was already in w/d from a CT after 2.5 years on the drug. When W/D Kicked in at 5 months I didnt know what was happening so I tried to get back on and things got ALOT worse, If I take 10% drops from here and leave months inbetween its going to take YEARS of getting off and still be in the hell I am now and have been since starting this failed RI.

 

Also the problem with taking so long to come off is that I will KNOW what is waiting for me at the end of this, more hell, and for years.

 

I think after nearly 4 weeks on this dose I need to come down just that 0.5mg, thats a small drop considering I recently did a 50% drop from 5 to 2.5 which yes did I think have an impact on me.

 

A horrific w/d awayts me at the end of this no matter how slowly I taper off, I mean I wouldnt CT from here I know that would make things worse, but how can I taper so slowly when I am living hell right now? will it really make a difference to how I will be when I come off?

 

Also, do you jump off at 1mg? Is that what everyone else does?

[Skyler]

Will it really make a difference to how I will be when I come off?

YES

 

Also, do you jump off at 1mg? Is that what everyone else does?

NO

 

Alto will flesh this out... try to put your fears aside for now. I'm really sorry you are having such a difficult time. You are less symptomatic when you go more slowly.. so your body is telling you how to proceed, or at least this is my take. You had a failed taper that sensitized you, which is truly miserable, followed by a failed reinstatement. Problem is, you did reinstate and going off too fast yet again will only sensitize you more.

[Iggy131313]

do you think this would be ok

 

2mg

1.5mg

1mg

0.5mg

off?

 

staying for each dose at 3 weeks?

[Iggy131313]

I dont believe that I will be able to get off this without major protracted w/d, and it would be foolish of me to think I can.

 

I had already gone into a bad w/d and yes no doubt made things worse with the RI.

 

I cant spend years getting of this bit, not a year, when I KNOW whats waiting for me at the end of it, this past 4 months in hell have been, well, hell and I know that its atimy drop in the ocean compared to what lies ahead.

 

Do you think the drops I have outlined above will be ok?

[Skyler]

I dont believe that I will be able to get off this without major protracted w/d, and it would be foolish of me to think I can.

 

I had already gone into a bad w/d and yes no doubt made things worse with the RI.

 

I cant spend years getting of this bit, not a year, when I KNOW whats waiting for me at the end of it, this past 4 months in hell have been, well, hell and I know that its atimy drop in the ocean compared to what lies ahead.

 

Do you think the drops I have outlined above will be ok?

 

Iggy.. the specifics of how you should structure a slow taper are best answered by Alto. But I don't think you will feel any worse than you do now once you get off as long as you do a slow taper, and hopefully you will feel better. The vast majority of folks are able to avoid the type of hell you speak of. And given you feel some better when you go slowly now, this should include you. Your situation is complicated, yes.. but this does not mean worse is waiting for you... I sincerely hope not! Take a deep breath and RELAX! Wow... you are one very worried lady. I'm sorry this is all so scary.

[Iggy131313]

But I AM in that hell!

 

I have horrific anxiety 24/7 TOTAL anhedonia, I camt feel anyhting not even for my own dear sweet 3 year old who is the love of my life.

 

I am suicidally depressed and NEVER have been before, Im having panic attacks, and twiching in my eye and moutn, pins and needles all over my body...

 

one day my bladder retains and the next i cant stop peeing. I have DP/DR and sometimes get really confused.

 

Most of these things aprt from the anxiety and depression have come down in intensisty ALOT since dropping the dose, but the anxiety kills me, its KILLING me

 

i was put on celexa for during a physical illness, not for anxiety r deression and all these feelings are so awful

 

I dont know if th anxiety is akathisia, I had TERRIBLA SEVERE akatisia whilst on the 20mg which really calmed down when I dropped to 10mg, but i wonder if this intense anxiety i feel is just a milder version of the akatisia, god help me. im terrified

[Iggy131313]

On a side note my referal to Healy has now been done and I am now waiting for the appointment date for my first assessment with him, i will lwt you know when it comes through, alhough i think t will be pretty soon.

[Iggy131313]

But I will add that although I am in hell, if it doesnt get any worse I can handle it, its hell and i wish i was dead but i just cant bear the thought of going back to how I was when I RIed when w/d kicked in, SVERE AKATHESIA, I was wetting myself because I was so confused, I couldnt speak because the sound of my own voice was too stimuating.

 

The dr told me it was side effects and to keep taking it, I was so scared I just carried on

[Skyler]

On a side note my referal to Healy has now been done and I am now waiting for the appointment date for my first assessment with him, i will lwt you know when it comes through, alhough i think t will be pretty soon.

 

OMG.. your doc kept you at that dose in the face of all you said. No wonder you are so afraid. I would be to.

 

GREAT that you have made contact and will be seeing Healy.... EXCELLENT Do let us know!!!

 

On reading your story, I can't help but think you may have been right to reinstate... just went to much to high a dose. If you had been here you would have been cautioned to take a very tiny dose.. but you will be in very good hands soon.. Yes, way to go.

[strawberry17]

Iggy131313 I have no words of wisdom for you at this point, but just to say I have been exactly where you are years ago and I really really do feel for you, it's a horrific nightmare. All I can say is it will get better, at some point, and you will get to a point where you can lead a normal life again. I hope your appointment with Dr Healy comes through very soon, boy I wish I'd known about him 10 years ago. I know it sounds crass but hang in there.

[Iggy131313]

do you think there is a chnage that RI could still work for me? I mean if I stay at 2.5 for a while do you think there is a possibility that my body will accept it? Im clutching at straws and I really dont want to be on meds but of course I have seen that most of the peple who suffer the longest and the hardest are those of us who CTed and I did, I cted, I didnt know.

[Skyler]

do you think there is a chnage that RI could still work for me? I mean if I stay at 2.5 for a while do you think there is a possibility that my body will accept it? Im clutching at straws and I really dont want to be on meds but of course I have seen that most of the peple who suffer the longest and the hardest are those of us who CTed and I did, I cted, I didnt know.

 

Iggy, I think there is a chance, and hopefully you will be able to stabilize where you are now. This does not seem like such an impossible dream. When do you think you will be able to get an apt with Dr. Healy... are you waiting to hear back from him.. where in the process of actually making an appointment are you now?

[Iggy131313]

referral has gone through just waiting to hear now when the appointment will be but I have no idea when that will be...

 

I have been at 2.5 for 4 weeks now, do you think I should stay here for another 4 weeks and see if I stabalise\? Maybe its just that 20mg was too much of a shock? I dont know, Im so desperate

[Skyler]

referral has gone through just waiting to hear now when the appointment will be but I have no idea when that will be...

 

I have been at 2.5 for 4 weeks now, do you think I should stay here for another 4 weeks and see if I stabalise\? Maybe its just that 20mg was too much of a shock? I dont know, Im so desperate

 

Iggy, I don't think you should make any more changes until you see Dr. Healy. Have you felt any improvement during the last 4 weeks? And yes, going back on 20 mgs after you were off for, do I have this right, 5 months?, would have been a shock to your system and very possibly the reason you had so many more symptoms.

[Iggy131313]

I dont know, its all hell, pure hell, and I have been on my period for 4 weeks, but at the start of this drop I was waking up all the time and my sleep has settled back down, thats the only mesure I can use really, I am ALWAYS highly anxious, I dont know if its anxiety or mild akathisia, and I have been very anhedonic.

[Skyler]

I dont know, its all hell, pure hell, and I have been on my period for 4 weeks, but at the start of this drop I was waking up all the time and my sleep has settled back down, thats the only mesure I can use really, I am ALWAYS highly anxious, I dont know if its anxiety or mild akathisia, and I have been very anhedonic.

 

Iggy, your own (non iatrogenic) anxiety is fueling the withdrawal anxiety. You need to pull the plug on that... The focus needs to be on your distress with this whole process. What sort of strategies did you use to deal with anger before all the withdrawal symptoms started.

 

Check out this exercise.

[Iggy131313]

I dont have any anger issues and never have, I have also never had anxiety at all, I was put on meds during a physical illness. You are right though my own anxietys are adding to the anxiety caused by the meds and the fact that I just dont know what to do for the best

[Iggy131313]

Oh, and Imeant to say that I have been on my period for 2 weeks, 2 whole weeks