success ☼ Brassmonkey: Talking about myself

[ChessieCat]

2 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

but can't figure out how to link to a specific post.

 

I noticed that you hadn't done that so I did it.  We make a great team

[brassmonkey]

Thanks CC.

[brassmonkey]

Well it was five months ago yesterday I made the big jump.  After five and a half years of tapering I did the final drop and wen to "0".  There have been noticeable ups and down these last five months, but I have to say that my WDnromal  RecoveryNormal level is on the rise.  Things are following the typical window and wave pattern with extended periods of "average" in between.  I will get several weeks in a row where I'm "out of sorts", easily frustrated, trouble thinking clearly, memory problems and the like.  For the windows things get quite clear and the ol' brain is clicking right over for a week or so.  In between I'm generally feeling good, function well and can hold conversations with little problem. I still have problems finding my words when I talk and it gets even worse in waves.  While writing posts, it's not a problem as the pace is a lot slower.

 

The breathing problems are on going.  I got the "everything is normal" from the pulmonologist a couple of days ago.  There are some other avenues we are going to explore now.

 

Another round weight loss has kicked in.  I've dropped a total of 40 pounds (19kg) since I  started my taper. I have another 10 pounds (4kg) to go to reach my target.  I think I'll try and stabilize here for a while first.  Then let it come off when it's ready.  I was able to stop the BP drugs a month ago, as they were starting to cause problems.  It's the first time I've been down to this weight since I started on Paxil so many years ago and feel great.

 

The persistent fatigue is slowly improving.  I'm not "wiped out" all the time.  Most days are pretty good with just getting very tired later in the evening.  If I've had several active days in a row it catches up with me and I have to take it easier for a few days.  Sleeping like a stone for 7-8 hours a night. 

 

All told I think I'm right about where I should be and am pretty happy about it.

[bubble]

Oh my Brass! This reads like a dream and like something I imagine it to be one day.

 

Thank you so much for sharing it and staying here to support us.

[Gridley]

Very happy for you, Brass.

[ChessieCat]

Thank you for sharing this Brass.  The startling this is the effect that these drugs can have on us, even after such a slow and careful taper and being off completely for 5 months.

 

At least we know not to expect everything to be suddenly rosy after we hit the 0.000mg

[brassmonkey]

That's one of the  reasons I'm sticking around CC.  There is very little information on the post taper experience.  I know from watching friends going through it over the years that there is a lot more involved than just hitting "0" and walking away.  I want to try and document my own and other peoples experiences so we an start to build a storehouse of information on what to expect afterwards.  I think it is very important so people can plan for the future.  Also so we can really determine the difference between a slow taper and a CT.

 

Being called "late for dinner".  Gots to run.

[RachelSusan]

Hi Brassmonkey,

I haven't introduced myself to you but I have been following you.  I want to thank you for sticking around after completing your taper. What you posted below is very important for all of us that are tapering.  I agree, hitting zero is not going to be the end of it.  Thank you for being an inspiration to all of us.

RS

1 hour ago, brassmonkey said:

I know from watching friends going through it over the years that there is a lot more involved than just hitting "0" and walking away.  I want to try and document my own and other peoples experiences so we an start to build a storehouse of information on what to expect afterwards.

 

[Shep]

On 9/16/2017 at 2:09 PM, brassmonkey said:

All told I think I'm right about where I should be and am pretty happy about it.

 

Beautiful update, Tom. 

[ChessieCat]

Found it when looking for something else!!!  experiences-after-tapering-to-zero

 

I was going to mention this when I posted previously and searched but couldn't find it.  Just wondering if you would post your update in this topic.

[mustangwoman]

I was just thinking that it had been around the five month mark since you hit zero, and wanted to see how you are doing.  Glad you doing well!  You are such an inspiration to so many!

[Brandy]

On 9/15/2017 at 7:36 PM, brassmonkey said:

I just posted the following on another thread and wanted to repost it here.  It addresses two different topics; making the mistake of thinking that our personal symptoms are worse than someone else's, and the idea that anhedonia is a bad thing.

 

We each make our own h*** out of WD, be it anhedonia, panic, anxiety, PGAD or what have you, and it's not up to us to judge how upsetting a particular set of symptoms is to another person.  We must acknowledge that our suffering is not greater or any less than anyone else's.  The rest of the world doesn't comprehend what we are going through.  The only ones we have to rely on are our fellow travelers.

 

When it comes to WD, anhedonia is natures way of protecting us from the excruciating experience of constant panic attacks, nonstop anxiety, adrenaline rushes, cortisol spikes, palpitations, suicidal ideation, intrusive thoughts and the like.  Your mind decides that it is better to feel nothing at all than to be put through the ringer 24/7 with emotions and sensations that wrack the body and soul, and the slow healing/recover process to a snails pace.  When the mind is allowed to feel nothing the body is then allowed to relax and direct it's energy to where it really needs to be used. This allows for faster more complete healing, less painful WD symptoms and a better quality of life.

 

Yes, anhedonia is no fun.  Primarily because we make it that way.  We all want to regain our feelings as fast as possible.  But we are in a healing situation where the body needs to be allowed to do what it needs to do, because it knows best how to put itself back together.  Once we understand this, accept it and stop fighting it we will start to heal at a faster rate and life will be much more pleasant as we do so.  Given a lifetime, the time spent in ADWD/recovery is insignificant.  We have all had our "life" cruelly taken from us and want it back now.  But to get it back fully we need to let the WD/recovery run its course, put on a brave face and accept what ever it throws at us, whether we can feel it or not.  With time, the healing will happen and when it knows we are ready our minds will allow us to feel our full range of emotions again and life will be even better.

 

Brass, I haven't followed this or any threads here but happened to see this post when glancing (very quickly) through one of many digests I received in email.

 

I agree with so much of what you wrote, especially about how we should never judge others' symptoms or jump to conclusions. Many of us write about symptoms in different ways, and some people are more expressive and also some people more able to feel open in how they (we) can discuss our symptoms, as well as their intensity. We can learn a lot by sharing our experiences, but I've seen for many, many years on w/d groups what a mistake it is to think we can fully understand another's experience based on posts, much less compare our experiences. (The latter is a huge temptation on w/d group and a big, big mistake. Especially since we are all at different stages of life - not just age - and our life experiences and what our norms are can be very different.)

 

I hope it won't upset people if I point out that anhedonia is by definition the inability to feel pleasure, not what (at least on PP) we called "emotional blunting" or "emotional numbness." I just want to avoid confusion. For example, I experienced severe - and utterly uncharacteristic of me - anhedonia, but if anything, my other emotions (grief, pain, uncharacteristic sheer terror for no reason - as well as intense compassion for others, etc.) were if anything more intense than ever.

 

Hope I didn't misunderstand your post and admit I wrote in haste (as usual). Still have more to do tonight than possible. I will say for those who will ask (as many have in the past) that although it took years in my case, my anhedonia did indeed go away. And I did get flickers of feeling beauty and pleasure before that time, but the ability to feel pleasure at the things I'd always loved and felt so intensely (especially music, my passion) did come and go for some years, with no rhyme or reason. When it would return, however briefly, I took it as a gift to not just listen to but feel the music (and other arts) that have always fed my soul, and although I felt despair when I could no longer feel anything at the same music, etc., I could remind myself that having felt that way again, my ability to feel beauty in every cell of my body was not gone, just "blocked" much of the time. Then one day that anhedonia vanished as suddenly as w/d had come on, and never returned. I don't pretend to know how that healing process takes. (And it doesn't usually take as long as mine did, but I think multiple w/d's and med history played a huge part. My AD was prescribed to address benzo w/d, so my CNS was very fragile...)

[Marsha]

Tom and Brandy and all. I experienced drug (neuroleptic) induced anhedonia from 2003-2015. In 2016, I began to recover what  Brandy so eloquently describes above. It (anhedonia) has indeed vanished. It is incredible, beautiful. 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Brandy-- thank you for dropping in and adding your support and for sharing your success with dealing with the anhedonia and lack of emotions.  I'm so glad that things did clear up for you and that you're back to fully enjoying the things that are so special to you.

 

"I hope it won't upset people if I point out that anhedonia is by definition the inability to feel pleasure, not what (at least on PP) we called "emotional blunting" or "emotional numbness." I just want to avoid confusion."

 

You make a very good point here that emphasizes an on going problem with the forum.  The two terms are used interchangeably when in fact they are two distinctly different symptoms. Emotional blunting is frequently referred to as Anhedonia and when described is not.  It also commonly happens the other was around.  A comment we frequently get goes something like "I have no emotions, I can't feel anything, it makes me so scared and anxious".  Which describes Anhedonia.  Where as "I have no emotions, I can't feel anything, and I don't care" is more a case of emotional blunting.  I usually described it as "not caring enough to not give a c***".

 

The nice thing is that, as you and Marsha have experienced, given time the emotions do come back with all the love and appreciation for the the beauty that is all around us, and it is wonderful.

[brassmonkey]

Ten days since my last update, where does the time go?  We've been super busy getting the haunted house ready.  We lost several of our crew members this year so it's basically down to the three of us and one of those is having to take several weekends off between now and the end of October.  Monica and I are running in circles trying to get it all done.  Luckily she's a master at list making and organizing so it's actually going pretty smoothly.  Just makes for some long days.  The last of the heavy lifting will be finished up this weekend, we have one volunteer coming in to help on one day, so that will be the really heavy day.  Then it's lots and lots of set decorating and setting up the small props and such.  We are adding a new booth to the carnival this year; a pet adoption booth filled with skeleton animals anything from a skeleton goldfish up to a 9 foot tall (3 meter) T-rex dinosaur skeleton, several different dogs and cats and a myriad of other creatures.

 

Other than being exhausted by the end of the day (I wonder why) my wave seems to have lifted.  The real bother now is the arthritis and muscle weakness in my right hand.  I try to baby it, but still end up having trouble picking things up by the end of the day.  Lots of Arnica Gel and keeping it warm goes a long ways toward helping. 

[brassmonkey]

Well yesterday was no fun at all, actually it did have some good points, but still.  Woke up feeling bad, tired, hurt all over, heavy brain fog.  Lasted pretty much all day.  Put most of our plans on hold and took it easy.  Did have to go out to the shops for food and such, but spent most of the day napping on the recliner.  Feeling a lot better today, so I will try and take it easy again.

 

Got the official all clear from my pulmonologist. Nothing wrong with my lungs, no asthma, no copd.  There still is some inflammation that will take several more months to clear up so I have to be careful around chemicals, dust and smoke and try not to get sick. Got a flu shot to help that and will be getting a pneumonia shot in the next couple of weeks. It's nice to know that there isn't anything major wrong, I do like to be able to breath.

[LexAnger]

Very sorry you got that much pain and aches even at this point after a rather long smooth tapering doing well!

Nothing is impossible for this process.

 

glad it's short lived and everything else is good!

 

hugs,

[Gridley]

Sorry for the pain but glad nothing is seriously wrong physically.  Thanks for your sage advice.

[brassmonkey]

You're welcome Gridley, and have a great vacation/trip.

[Marsha]

A good report makes the bones fat.

[brassmonkey]

I posted this on Amy's thread, but it may be more applicable to have it here because I talk about my post "0" experience.

 

Hi Amy--  I wish it all ended when we hit "0" but all we do is transfer to a different phase.  It would be so wonderful if it was an instant feel better situation.  We've laid the ground work and removed all the obstacles, now we have to make it through the final healing process.  This is the part that nobody talks about, everyone disappears when they make the jump so we have very little information to go on.  But we do know it gets better from here. 

 

It's so frustrating to have to face yet another round of symptoms and having to cope with things when we've done everything right to this point.  I truly thought things would be a lot better this far out.  In a way they are, as I can feel my RecoveryNormal level rising every week.  But still I'm disappointed that I'm having to cope with more waves and other symptoms, and I know you are too.   I started my taper six years ago last week, enough all ready.  I've put in the time and just want it over with. (vent, rant, rave)  Now that my head is clearing for extended periods of time I can look back and realize the enormity of what has happened over the past years and the years leading up to the taper.  It's totally boggling.  Finally I can start to let down and let it all seep in and work through it a little bit at a time.  I can realize what I've accomplished, not just the WD but in life while the WD was happening.  I'm very upset that I went through it, but at the same time very pleased that I have prevailed, or rather that I am prevailing and will recover in the end.

 

Sorry Amy, in typical SA style I've gone and made my supportive post more about what I'm experiencing than you.  Pay attention to your waves and RecoveryNormal level and you'll know that things are improving.  The waves and upticks in symptoms can be really frustrating, but as each wave dies back the beach will be cleaner and the next wave won't rise as high.

 

(((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))

 

Brass

[brassmonkey]

This seems to be a prolific day, here's another post I want to keep here for my records:

 

Hi Sunny-- Relationships with others and how much we share are really tricky parts of the WD process.  Because our emotions are blunted or all over the place it's really hard to understand what others are thinking/saying or even understand what we are thinking or saying.  The WD process is a very personal thing, because it is only happening to our self and no one else can experience what we a re feeling.  One decision I made early on in the process was that I wouldn't talk to anyone about it, and if I did it would only be in generalities unless they asked more questions.  My reasoning was that I didn't want WD to be the only focus of my life and I didn't want my friends constantly asking how I felt and loosing interest when there was no change for months at a time.  I only openly talked about things with my wife and here on SA and Prior Place.  Otherwise I made the effort to talk about mutual interests with friends.  Over the course of my WD some friends have come and gone.  The less important ones I see from time to time and we can pick up again quickly.  The strong friendships have endured and are stronger than ever. They know something has been up because of the slow changes, and one day when the time is right, I may let them in on it.  But until then, we have a common past built on mutual interests, which is the basis of any strong friendship.

 

Going through WD is a brutal experience that causes many changes in our lives.  Some friend will drop by the wayside, but the ones who are true friends will still be there when the dust settles.  And our relationships will be all the stronger for it.

[brassmonkey]

I was just over talking to Offforgood and thought it would be a good idea to repost my comment here as they apply to a lot of us:

 

Hi Offforgood--  Congratulations on being three months drug free.  After 28 years that's quite an accomplishment.  But it does raise the question "what  do normal emotions feel like"? I'm struggling with the same problem. The time I've spent on and getting off of paxil (about 25 years all told) had been quite a whirlwind of experiences, emotions blunted by drugs and major life upheavals.  Trying to sort out what was "real" and what was drug enhanced is a real challenge and I'm not sure if it's really necessary. It's over and done with and I can't change it.  Now that my emotions are returning I need to relearn how they feel and how to control them, which leads for a lot of ups and downs.

 

 We do know that the WD process does not end when the dose drops to "0".  All that means is that we are no longer directly fighting against the drug and our bodies can start the real healing process.  Which, unfortunately, will take more time.  The first year is marked by the window and wave pattern which you are describing with a steady improvement after each wave.  So being three months out is putting you right in the thick of it with more healing to come.  By the end of the first year there should be a major increase on clarity of mind, purity of emotions and motivation, and things will improve from there.  I know that hearing "it will take more time" is tough, I'm rapidly approaching 65 and really don't want to hear it.

 

As the ones actually going through the WD process we are acutely aware of every little change we feel. So much so that it can be really hard to see just how much improvement we have made.  Taking time and looking back is a really good way to remind ourselves of how far we've come.  There also comes a point where we just have to stop thinking about how bad we feel and start looking for the small joys in life and concentrating on them.  It may only be a minute of feeling great or a flash go positive emotion, but we need to catch those moments and remember them and nurture them so they will grow.  Having a loving partner through out this process is a wonderful thing.  Pay attention to the small things that they do to try and make you happy and cherish them.  You'll be surprised at how often they will cause little sparks and those sparks can grow into contentment.

 

((((((((((((((((((HUG))))))))))))))))))

 

Brass

[caperjackie]

Tom ........ I am going to give a brutally honest assessment of why there is very little information regarding the post taper process (and also, in my opinion why the 'success stories' are not that easy to find). A lot of us who have been off for a few years are very leery of posting the truth about life post SSRI's because we do not want to scare those who are coming behind us and are still on their journey to become drug free. Folk on forums like to believe that we have 'all moved on with our lives' and 'do not want to revisit the trauma'  ...... as if we would be that callous and abandon the very folk who helped us get through. You would probably be surprised at how many of us are 'lurking' here, looking for some comfort ourselves but not wanting to speak our own personal truth. You and Brandy are absolutely right too about how people describe their symptoms ............ you remember me from years on PP ....... so you should know that I always downplayed the bad and tried to accentuate the positive ........ that fact should make this post carry some weight ........

[brassmonkey]

Hi Jackie--  I always enjoyed your posting back at Prior Place and miss having you around.  I assumed, like you pointed out, that you had moved on and were only dropping in for the occasional visit, but I now understand differently.  Life after "0" is a tricky subject to talk about because most of the members here are trying to get there and want to believe that they will return to how things were pre-drugs.  That belief is what keeps many of them going during the rough times.  We have frequent discussions about how things will change and we couch them in the idea that over time everyone is going to change and this is a growing experience and because of this experience things will be different.  We try to soften the blow in this manner.

 

The brutal truth is: you can't take mind altering drugs for years, go through a traumatic WD process, lose jobs, friends, family, homes and health and expect to be a whole person when it's all over.  For one thing, we don't know if it ever will be over. No one knows what physical damage these drugs have done to our bodies, or how long they will take to heal or if they even will heal.  In order to study and understand the changes to the brain it needs to be dissected, cut into little pieces and looked at with a microscope.  We don't get many volunteers for that one.  The brain has wonderful powers to heal itself, but there are some changes it just can't undo. And that's just one small part of the puzzle.

 

Learning to live a post "0" life will be a journey that will be as hard as the one that lead us there.  For those of us just starting in that direction the guidance of those already on the path would be invaluable.  The support of other members going through the same phase as each other is what this site is all about, and to over look those who have lead the way and are still struggling is a disgrace. Now that the subject is clearly breached I hope we have more open and frank discussion so the "jumpers" can get the support they need and deserve and the rest of us can start to learn and develop strategies for the future.

[RachelSusan]

9 hours ago, caperjackie said:

A lot of us who have been off for a few years are very leery of posting the truth about life post SSRI's because we do not want to scare those who are coming behind us and are still on their journey to become drug free.

Hi Jackie,

 

First off thank you for continuing to post on this site for those of us still going through the process.  I can't tell you how much I appreciate you still being part of it. The same goes for you brassmonkey. 

 

Jackie, you mentioned not wanting to scare those of us coming up behind you.  I naturally don't speak for anybody else except myself, but I much rather hear the truth because nothing can be worse than I imagine it.  Also, to be forewarned is good because I can then say to myself, OK, this is perfectly normal for withdrawal, and while I don't like it, it is not unexpected.  Anyway just my thoughts.

 

Again, thank you so much for your posts.

 

Rachel

[RachelSusan]

Brassmonkey,

I wanted to thank you separately from Jackie, so as not to diminish my appreciation for you as well. Your continued presence here on this site has been very helpful to me and I am grateful for your time and all your posts.  I have used my own variation of the Brassmonkey Slide so thank you for that bit of creative and helpful way to taper.

Warm Wishes,

Rachel

[AmyK]

Caperjackie, I am so sorry you still feel bad. I do really hope you (and others in the same post wd situation) will find better health. Thankyou for your honesty. I got a bit scared I must admit, but your experience is as valuable as others (of course!) and counts too. We have to see these drugs for what they are. 

 

I just wish and hope I will feel better, to recover some of the brain I have lost. Actually it's my only goal. If I just get 50 % better that is something too...

 

All the best, 

Amy

[Gridley]

Thank you, Brass and Jackie.  I too would rather hear the truth.  I'm looking at a couple more years of tapering Lexapro, then onto getting down from 25 mg Imipramine and then the Lorazepam. So true "0" for me is a bit of a ways off.  I'm 69 so much of the rest of my life will be likely involved in this.  SA provides a map for the terra incognito of the future.  That's a big help.  It's also a big help to have all of you soldiering alongside.  

[nick1990]

Hi Tom and Hi Jackie.

 

What you have said Jackie, is humbling to say the least. I must say though - From what i can see, you tapered  off 14 years of Paxil over the period of 1 year.  From my understanding of this forum and its members, people who CT or taper far too fast, generally take a long-ish time to recover. There are success stories of CT'ers after decades of psych drugs who consider themselves healed though. 

 

Tom, you've pretty recently hit "0" after what, 20 odd years of Paxil? You have methodically tapered throughout your journey and listened to your body. Thinking logically about this, there clearly will be a "post 0" adjustment period, however i don't think there is any reason to believe the journey is now going to be as tough and brutal as the tapering process. 

Tom, correct me if I'm wrong, but are you not one of the first people on this forum to "properly" taper the whole way to zero, without changing meds or upping and downing doses? 

 

What your doing, as in documenting your experience is fantastic, but the way i see it, there are two very different categories of people on this forum. The minority are people like you Tom - slow, planned out taperers!  who have done it right from the start. Removing a little drug at a time, waiting for their CNS to adjust to the reduction and then chipping away at the next part. Unfortunately the majority have not tapered or have tapered too fast, thrown some extra drugs in, gone up and down in dose and really had a mess of a time. I believe that the process of healing is very different between the two categories of people. How could it not be? I don't meen to sound harsh or defensive and i certainly don't meen to make others, who have gone about WD the wrong way, feel discouraged.

 

In your case Tom, you have done most of your healing on your way down the ladder. There is that last step off the bottom of the ladder which might be a little bit higher from the ground than you like, but its a pretty soft landing, and you can soon walk down that path into the light, once you've regained your balance after being clinging onto a ladder for over 20 years.

 

If someone has jumped from too high off their ladder, its going to hurt. And they will take a lot longer until they can prepare themselves to walk down that path into the light. Im sure they will walk that path, with time, but you see what I'm getting at?

 

What I'm really trying to say, is i don't think we should be comparing proper taperers to non-proper taperers. A brain and CNS which has been traumatised by dramatic changes in a drug probably has a very different way of healing than one that hasn't had those dramatic changes. 

 

And in the case of what Jackie has said, i guess what I'm trying to say, is that the two of you have had a VERY different approach to withdrawing from this drug. So the comparison shouldn't really exist. With all due respect to you Jackie. 

 

Sorry if i came across as aggressive at all in this post, but i just get tired of seeing everyone boxed into one category.

 

Keep it up Tom and Jackie

 

Best wishes and hugs

Nick

[caperjackie]

A very interesting discussion ...... Tom - thank you for being so reasonable about my post as my intention was not to offend and I was a little nervous after posting. Rachel and Gridley - thank you for your kind words, you both have great attitudes which I think will help you on your journeys. Amy - when you say 'recover some of the brain I have lost', if you mean intellectual and problem solving abilities etc then I can assure you that for me these did return but it took a while .... sadly over a year.

And now for you Nick (LOL) ......You are absolutely right of course ...... not only did some of us come off in different ways but we are all individuals of varying ages and health who have different approaches to life and how we deal with it. I will say this ..... I know and am in touch with people who have done this the 'right way' and the 'wrong way' (like myself) and for all of us the post SSRI experience has been similar, in fact I would say that overall I did fairly well in comparison. 

I want to STRESS this ....... I am currently a well functioning human being who enjoys life and is SO thankful that the worst of WD is behind me BUT ......... there are what I call 'residual issues' which have never resolved and I suspect never will. Tom is spot on ...... we cannot expect to mess about our brains with psych 'meds' for all those years (especially us long termers) and not come away with some kind of damage ..... I have always said that this is the price I have paid for both being on and coming off Paxil and it is a price I gladly pay because life off is SO much better. 

So ........ a brief recap of my drug free experience ....... year one was the worst, in fact it was the worst year of my life to date. In year two there were improvements, I still had windows and waves (some of them severe) but I could really see that I was coming back. Year three was much the same but with less windows and waves,  it was during that time that I more or less accepted that this was my new base level. No changes in the next few years. Late this spring though I experienced extremely high anxiety interchanging with depression and started using coping mechanisms that I have not needed in years. I did not associate this with WD (haven't done that in a very long time) until one night laying in bed I felt the 'inner vibrations'. I was shocked ....... surely not at 6 years off. I contacted some folk with roughly the same time line and sure enough, a lot of them were going through the same kind of thing.  How interesting! The good news here is that waves are a product of the brain making adjustments so I hoped that when it was over I would see some healing. Please God I said .... let it be the tinnitus LOL. It has been a long but survivable wave and although the tinnitus is still with me, I have seen a noticeable improvement in my sleep patterns........ woohoo! Very unexpected as the last 6 years of insomnia in one form or another I had put down to aging. It took SIX years ........ perhaps there is still hope!

None of us going through this want to post on a forum that after 6 years or 3 years or even 2 years we are still feeling the effects of WD ........ it scares folk (like you Amy .... sorry about that). People who are in the thick of this have an understandable tendency to focus on the negative and not the positive - it is the nature of the WD beast ...... so we 'lurk' and keep quiet.

Hope I have explained myself a little better in this post .......

[nick1990]

I agree with you there Jackie - We are all individuals and of varying ages, with different health complications, lifestyle influences and approaches to life. 

I am so happy to hear that your life is good and you are a well functioning human  

 

I also agree with you that as with any drug or substance, these SSRI's most likely cause some kind of damage to us. However, you just need to take a look at some success stories on this forum alone to hear claims of individuals being "fully recovered" from their episode on drugs. There are a lot of people i know personally, who have spent time on SSRI's or Benzodiazepines and have ceased using the drug, without tapering and have had no issues at all. Admittedly, these are mostly young people, but nevertheless - they seem to have no lurking effects.. 

So to me, the hope for full recovery is there. It remains. 

[nick1990]

p.s Sorry for hijacking your thread Tom

[apace41]

9 hours ago, caperjackie said:

It has been a long but survivable wave and although the tinnitus is still with me, I have seen a noticeable improvement in my sleep patterns........ woohoo! Very unexpected as the last 6 years of insomnia in one form or another I had put down to aging. It took SIX years ........ perhaps there is still hope!

 

Jackie,

 

I appreciate your candor and the fact that you continue to provide insight into your experience.  I don't really think, however, that additional changes should be viewed as "very unexpected."  If you read the science about "brain change", including Doidge's work in The Brain That Changes Itself, you  come to realize that virtually anything is possible with neuroplastic change.  It will vary from one person to the next quite dramatically, and at this point there is no way to predict who will have what changes, but some people have seen incredible changes from other types of brain injury (TBI and stroke damage are, of course, most closely studied) many years after the initial insult to the brain.  I think that the damage that occurs from the drugs is, for all intents and purposes on a functional basis, similar to what happens in those cases, i.e., portions of the brain are rendered "underperforming" or, in some cases, "nonperforming".  Based on these situations, however, there is good reason to believe that neuronal changes can take place that will ameliorate much, if not all, of the deficits that have been occasioned by the meds.

 

The question that remains for me, assuming the foregoing is true, is what level of sensitivity is left in the brain and for how long?  I have a hard time picturing a bucolic stress-free life where I sit on the shore all day and watch the waves lap against the beach head.  If my symptoms return when stressed have I healed, and how much stress is needed to trigger them again?  All of these are somewhat unknown, but, suffice it to say that you should continue to live your life as you are -- focused on the day to day -- but hold out continued hope that there is going to be additional improvement.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[caperjackie]

Thank you for your comments Andy ..... I am familiar with neuroplasticity ....... it was not the improvement that surprised me but the fact that it was the insomnia that improved ....... I had truly chalked that one up to aging LOL

And like Nick ...... I apologise Tom for hijacking your thread ......

[apace41]

9 minutes ago, caperjackie said:

I am familiar with neuroplasticity

 

I figured you were and didn't mean to come across as talking down to you at all.  My point is simply that insomnia, like all other aspects of "aging", comes from changes in the brain.  If brain changes one way and creates problems with the sleep cycle, it is equally plausible that new connections can be created that will reverse these problems.  Regardless of the reason, I am glad your sleep has improved.

 

Best,

 

Andy

 

Oh, and I don't apologize to Tom for this discussion.  I'm confident that he's pleased we are having this discourse -- on his thread or elsewhere.